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September Wrasslin' |OT| because Triple H is good for business

P

Professor Beef

Banned
Aiii said:
Every wrestler but Cena and his red headed clone Sheamus are not all smiles after losing their title, it's supposed to be a big deal. Have some range of emotion in your persona at least.
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I should know better than to argue emotions with an AJ Lee fan. All you know is crazy or horny!
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Nocturnowl said:
He should've stared dead at the camera and given us another great like this.

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Good point, maybe it's for the best that he's stuck in his doofus persona.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
Glorified G said:
You think the position he's being booked had nothing to do with it? You think having those type of matches against joe schmoe in WWE Superstars would change your perception?

Fact is booking has a pretty big affect on how people view what a "four star" match is and what isn't. He works the same stale WWE main event style that any graduate of OVW/FCW/NXT can do just as well but because he gets the most tv time prior to his matches than anyone people think he's some great worker when in reality he's not.

Hot crowd + 20 minute match + same stale main event style (big move/finisher 1,2, he kicks out!!!) = 4 star match. The WWE has got it down pat for a while now but you're giving way too much credit here that's not deserved.
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He tends to pull out all the stops in the big matches, though. His effort against Bryan was just plain old good wrasslin', for the most part. I'd agree with you 90% of the time, but Cena's been enough great matches - even with subpar workers, sometimes - to be able to be called at least "good", even if he can only do it once in a while.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
So, tonight on Total Divas, Nikki Bella is gonna pretend a hairline fracture is a career ending injury. I am looking forward to this.
 
K

Kaladin

Member
It looks like part of my early predictions for this angle is happening at NOC if they're practicing that match at house shows now....I didn't predict the Big Show stuff getting saddled into it though.

*Daniel Bryan, who received the biggest reaction all night, defeated WWE champ Randy Orton by DQ when the Shield interfered. Brad Maddox was at ringside making sure Big Show didn't interfere, but finally he saved Bryan to a big pop.
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Second most impressive German Supelex I've seen all day

ia4onTL.gif


also, let’s make a list of signature sounds wrestlers make to convey hitting one another. I’ll get us started.

Axel: Shaa! Shaa!
Jericho: Wwwwwwwww-atchu!
Cena: Yea-oh!
HHH: Dooj! Dooj!
Foley: waTAAH! waTAHH!
Ambrose: Aaaaah-ha!
Punk: Thub-pfft!
 
B

British Monsoon

Member
Great elevation on that from Bryan, I thought Seth was going to end up on the back of his neck like with the Asari driver;

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strobogo said:
Why hasn't NJPW booked La Parka and Nakamura as a tag team?
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I'm really not sure if we're ready for such awesomeness. Also, I'd guess New Japan's partnership with CMLL might be a problem.
 
S

somedevil

Member
Mr. Sandman said:
It looks like part of my early predictions for this angle is happening at NOC if they're practicing that match at house shows now....I didn't predict the Big Show stuff getting saddled into it though.

*Daniel Bryan, who received the biggest reaction all night, defeated WWE champ Randy Orton by DQ when the Shield interfered. Brad Maddox was at ringside making sure Big Show didn't interfere, but finally he saved Bryan to a big pop.
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Do you agree with Wade Keller opinion about the storyline?

It's obvious from how WWE talks about Daniel Bryan on TV that they are not confident in his being their top central star, so Triple H (and the Randy Orton heel turn) are ways, in their mind, to prop up what they see as a weak, flawed top babyface "that the fans picked for some odd reason as their favorite." I think they're conflicted and insecure, so Triple H sees himself as "star power insurance." What Triple H and Vince McMahon don't realize or won't accept (because it seems so insane to them) is that fans aren't hung up on height and muscles like they obviously are. They walk around backstage looking down at the top of Bryan's head and tell themselves this guy isn't a top guy. But fans see Bryan at eye level because on TV the camera films him from the side, not the top looking down. His height is virtually irrelevant in most instances, just as it doesn't matter that Tom Cruise or other leading men in Hollywood are short. When it is noticeable that he's short, it works to his great advantage as a babyface with his type of character because it makes him seem like a hard-working underdog who is scrappy, tough, and highly skilled at what he does - all traits that the common wrestling fan would be predisposed to really appreciate.

This storyline has zero to do with Hollywood writers. As many ex-WWE Creative Team members have said on the PWTorch Livecast and in Torch Talk interviews in the PWTorch Newsletter in recent years, the writers' job is to fill in the blanks on the larger direction set by Vince and Triple H. The writers are not coming up with the idea of pushing the Triple H Power Trip in this manner. They may be coming up with small details that fill out the storyline, and they might be encouraging Big Show to cry and have Cody Rhodes say he can't support his wife anymore. Nonsense like that isn't something that someone who knows the history of pro wrestling and the importance of pro wrestlers, I mean Superstars, seeming to be something other than pathetic saps who have no job options unless the Royal McMahon Family bestows such a generous gift as employment on them. But no matter who suggested these emasculating plotlines for these wrestlers, Vince and Hunter should be smart enough to know the ramifications are much more negative than any gains from the sympathy generated for Cody and Show or the heat generated for Hunter.
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S

strobogo

Banned
ViewtifulJC said:
Second most impressive German Supelex I've seen all day

ia4onTL.gif


also, let’s make a list of signature sounds wrestlers make to convey hitting one another. I’ll get us started.

Axel: Shaa! Shaa!
Jericho: Wwwwwwwww-atchu!
Cena: Yea-oh!
HHH: Dooj! Dooj!
Foley: waTAAH! waTAHH!
Ambrose: Aaaaah-ha!
Punk: Thub-pfft!
Click to expand...


Lex Luger: AURUGGHHH
Big Show: ARRRRUGHHHHHH


They're very similar. The main difference is Lex sounds like a vocal clip sampled in a Genesis game.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
watched 3 hours of CZW last night with a buddy o' mine who had never seen that kind of wrestling.

god damn the stupid spiderweb barbed wire. god damn that.
 
G

Glorified G

Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
He tends to pull out all the stops in the big matches, though. His effort against Bryan was just plain old good wrasslin', for the most part. I'd agree with you 90% of the time, but Cena's been enough great matches - even with subpar workers, sometimes - to be able to be called at least "good", even if he can only do it once in a while.
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"all the stops" is the routine been done death over the years (big move, near fall) that's been in most main event matches for a long time. That Summerslam match is the perfect example, that old good wrasslin' was the forumla that WWE has perfected over the years. Put two guys who are very over, repeat the same routine, get results. There is nothing special here that can't be done by mostly by anyone else on the roster. What Cena should be given credit for (with a lot of help from booking) is his character. He's over. People watching either love him, or can't stand him and that emotional involvement has contributed to his matches. Take the exact same Summerslam main event match between Bryan and Cena, take away the build/booking, put it on Superstars, and no one would give a shit.

You want an example of two workers who are actually good. Benoit vs. Regal. No Mercy 2006 No build whatsoever. Nobody expected this match to be on the card. Benoit was out for months making his return. Regal was a mid card heel without consistent tv time. Crowd was quiet for the most part, and this match was considered a MOTY candidate. Why? Because despite the lack of build they forced you to care. These two performed a match that no one else on the card could do, or do as well. Their skill level was able to make them stand out while the rest of the ppv was the variation of the same old style. It was the little things, the physicality stood out, moves that looked subtle but stood out. (Benoit chop to Regal's head when he's already busted open). These are great workers. Give Benoit a main event push and you'll care. Take Benoit out for months and put in against a mid card heel people don't care about he'll force you to care.

Now this comparison is may not be fair because Benoit is guy who got over simply by his in ring work, his push to the main event in WCW is a perfect example. He's easily one of the greatest workers ever. But the point he's not hidden or protected by the WWE main event style and booking like Cena is. Nobody cared about Cena's mid card work against Rene Dupree or Kenzo Suzuki because it wasn't any different that what everyone else was doing besides his signature moves. He got pushed because of his character and subsequently has been put in a position to perfect the WWE main event style over the years.

Any OVW/FCW/NXT who would have gotten the same consistent push, protection, tv time and opportunities over the years that he has would be considered a "good" worker as Cena and be given the same "4 star" ratings.
 
K

Kaladin

Member
Sunflower said:
watched 3 hours of CZW last night with a buddy o' mine who had never seen that kind of wrestling.

god damn the stupid spiderweb barbed wire. god damn that.
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That's the best kind of wrestling to show someone for the first time....better than Game of Thrones reactions.
 
K

Kaladin

Member
It's pretty obvious at this point that we're getting Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, Big Show & Cody Rhodes vs Randy Orton & The Shield at Survivor Series, right?
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
I don't think there's anything wrong with making the babyfaces look weak, for a while, if it augurs the return of REAL, "stick up for the right thing", non-dickhead faces.

I wonder what Edge will actually do tomorrow? Will he be a part of the Bryan angle at all, or will it just be "hey, watch Haven, see ya!" So weird that they're having Goldust come back for a match on the same show that Edge is making an appearance - though I suppose a go-home show should be a big one.

I'd love it if they used Edge to finally introduce the blue dot gimmick for Christian.


Edit: Sandman - I'd sub out Dolph Ziggler for someone else, maybe. Much as I hate to say it, I suspect Ziggler may have had his last big hurrah. With better booking, he could have been a star, but he's been a directionless jobber for far too long, at this point. Unless they pull something BIG out for him, I don't see why they would push him over, well, anyone else. Especially after his recent interview debacle (which seems unlikely to have been a work, since they made a POINT on Raw of saying that he "hadn't done anything" since that Summerslam Axxess interview), I just can't see them putting much faith in him.
 
B

bean breath

Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
I don't think there's anything wrong with making the babyfaces look weak, for a while, if it augurs the return of REAL, "stick up for the right thing", non-dickhead faces.

I wonder what Edge will actually do tomorrow? Will he be a part of the Bryan angle at all, or will it just be "hey, watch Haven, see ya!" So weird that they're having Goldust come back for a match on the same show that Edge is making an appearance - though I suppose a go-home show should be a big one.

I'd love it if they used Edge to finally introduce the blue dot gimmick for Christian.
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Edge is there strictly for crowd control. If Vince wants the WWE Universe to cheer a for a segment, add Edge to it.
 
K

Kaladin

Member
They have to make the babyfaces look weak to push the new Hs Administration. They're trying to push babyfaces and heels at the same time, and heels always come first. If they do this right, they will have major heat on Hs Administration by the time Bryan starts getting wins toward his Mania victory.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
Wouldn't it be great if BO was debuted as Triple H's new "big star" after Orton gets the boot? His whole "oblivious douche who thinks he's a huge babyface" gimmick would be perfect for this story.
 
N

Nocturnowl

Member
ViewtifulJC said:
also, let’s make a list of signature sounds wrestlers make to convey hitting one another. I’ll get us started.
Click to expand...

Biker Taker: "D-OW!"
Unmasked Kane: "heeeDOH!"

I swear there's some guy who makes odd hissing noises with each strike, i'm thinking it might be Orton, maybe that's why they call him the viper.
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Nocturnowl said:
Biker Taker: "D-OW!"
Unmasked Kane: "heeeDOH!"

I swear there's some guy who makes odd hissing noises with each strike, i'm thinking it might be Orton, maybe that's why they call him the viper.
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Albert, after he came back from Japan and tricked smarks into thinking he DIDN'T suck ass anymore because Japan so elite and kawaii~
 
B

British Monsoon

Member
Gonna have to give $5 a miss, hope Freight Train kicks Jake's ass, though!

ViewtifulJC said:
Albert, after he came back from Japan and tricked smarks into thinking he DIDN'T suck ass anymore because Japan so elite and kawaii~
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Shit, New Japan just did a far better job of disguising Albert's negatives and enhancing his positives than WWE have.
 
K

Kaladin

Member
Gunner is a joke of pro-wrestling that never got to be told because he's a B+ jobber that is nothing more than an average player.
 
S

somedevil

Member
Mr. Sandman said:
They have to make the babyfaces look weak to push the new Hs Administration. They're trying to push babyfaces and heels at the same time, and heels always come first. If they do this right, they will have major heat on Hs Administration by the time Bryan starts getting wins toward his Mania victory.
Click to expand...

I think they will book it with Bryan winning the title at Hell in the Cell and it leads to a match between him and Punk at WrestleMania. The crowd wants it unlike Orton vs Cena that gets crickets. Also, helps Cena is not showing up till the Royal Rumble pay per view.

Also, Alvarez says that Bryan getting laid out all the time might make the fans not take him seriously though I believe they will end the streak at 6 times in a row it ends with Bryan on the ground.
 
S

strobogo

Banned
wcw1998.tumblr.com

WCW Monday Nitro 10/12/98

TO THE BACK. Bischoff is telling security and local police to be on the look out for Ric Flair and to NOT LET HIM IN THE GOD DAMN BUILDING.

Goldberg vs The Giant no DQ tonight! A WCW Mastercard promo was shown with all the wrestlers holding giant versions of their cards at the NYSE. The real story was that they used the Hardy Boys' theme as the back ground music.

Lodi vs Wrath

Wrath completely dominates, of course. Meng comes out and they fight in the aisle.

Dale Torborg vs Kendall Windham

Oh wow, BOTH guys got jobber entrances. Dale is the future Demon, but for now is a member of the WCW pit crew. Dale is awful. Not even being in the ring with a Windham can help him. He ends up winning with a pump kick and injured himself doing it.

iE6g2T3XLiLlq.gif


Recap of Goldberg and DDP having a stand off on last week's Nitro.

Sting comes to the ring. He looks pissed. He calls Bret Hart out right now. He calls Hogan out. Instead, WARRIOR comes out.

"Speak to me, warriors. Sting, I think you'd have to agree to me, it's amazing how far a little dab of paint will take you. Far from the beginning, far from our beginning, no doubt I'll leave the history lessons to others, but I will say, as I have viewed your career from afar, I have watched with the warriors' admiration and unconditional respect. For all intents and purposes, Sting, WCW is your battleground, not mine. And it is for that reason I intrude on your interview time to make a one time request. Let me preface this request by saying it is fateful to enter any battle without the will to win. As you may know, I have an ongoing battle with Hollywood Hogan set to culminate at Halloween Havoc. My vote, my warriors' vote, affords me the will to win but one battle at a time. If it is your intention to call out the anti-heroes of our time, then I make a request. I make a demand that for this evening that I stand alongside you to fight. Same Warrior Time, Same Warrior Place, Same Warrior Channel."

Sting gives no answer and walks away from the ring.

Hogan, Bischoff, and Giant come to the ring. He's sick of the nWo not having the title, so that's why he's sending Giant to get it back tonight. He and Bret accept the challenge of Sting/Warrior. As they leave the ring, one of the security officers tell Bischoff that the Horsemen are here. So we follow Bischoff all the way outside. A limo arrives. It was indeed the Horsemen. Flair had the owner of the United Center with them. He says the building belongs to the Four Horsemen tonight. He is going to party with the Horsemen in his large skybox with 10 beautiful women.

Fit Finlay vs Alex Wright

Finlay has some new gear that is more akin to his WWE gear. This is part of Alex Wright's claim of being the best European wrestler. "Fit Finlay, you ended my father's career. Tonight, I end yours." Hm. That sounds familiar. Finlay says fuck that shit and takes Alex to the floor, slapping him with his jacket on the way. It gets in the ring and Alex is getting stiff. Finlay just drills him with a lariatoo. Fit misses a shoulder block in the corner. Alex hits a stun gun and pins Finlay with his feet on the ropes. The Bulldog attacks Alex in the aisle. They double team Alex until he bails. Finlay then decks Bulldog.

is8652kjIz1ug.gif


La Parka/Ciclope/Villano V vs Chavo Guerrero Jr./Super Calo/Hypnosis

I'll leave you with the gifs. Chavo pinned Ciclope with the tornado DDT. The LWO came out. Huge EDDIE EDDIE EDDIE chants. Psychosis joins the group. I think Chavo might have, too. This match was so sloppy and bad. Everyone was completely off, even the ref.

ibcqXzqLYwAyxs.gif


ihONyxD61wQ0P.gif


Scott Steiner comes to the ring. No Buff. Scott was finally able to convince Sammy Sosa that Chicago sucks. I swear this is the 3rd time they've been in Chicago this year. WCW seemed to run same cities much more frequently in the same year than the WWF did. He claims that he and Buff have patched up their issues. This brings out Buff and Judy. Buff says they haven't worked anything out and Scott could snap Buff's neck like a twig. Judy has convinced Buff that all of these problems are Scott's fault. Scott calls him a mama's boy. Then calls Judy an old bag. Scott shit talks Judy, which causes Buff to punch him. Scott drops him neck first on the ropes.

TO THE BOX. The Horsemen are partying.

Juventud Guerrera vs TAFKATAFKAPI

Prince got a jobber entrance. Disco came out before the match to say people came to see him dance, not watch these jbrones. He gets up on the apron to dance and gets knocked off right away. Fans actually booed. They DID want to see him dance. Kidman also comes out and chases Disco off. Disco comes back out. He pushes Juvi off the ropes while doing the 450. However, Juvi landed on his feet. Prince then punched Disco. Juvi Driver for the win. Kidman chases Disco off again.

Kevin Nash comes to the ring. Before he was a wrestler, he was a bouncer, so if there is one thing Nash does well, it's throwing drunks around. He calls Scott Hall out. LAST CALL, yo. Hall stumbles out. Hall gives the suck it sign and Nash chases him to the back. We follow Nash all the way outside, with no sign of Scott Hall. Hall is in a limo driving away. Nash got in his car and a chase is underway.

Chris Jericho vs Raven WCW TV Championship

Raven is totally alone and doesn't even talk on the mic anymore. They fall to the floor while in a lock up. Jericho gets a chair. Raven dropkicks it back in his face. It goes back to the floor. Jericho runs into the ring post. Drop toe hold on the chair. Jericho actually hit the lip of the chair instead of the seat. Liontamer for the win.

iY1wlUm4hJrvb.gif


TO THE MEAN GENE. He brings out Rick Steiner. Oh my. Those of you who know your WCW history will know what is about to happen here. The maniacal laughing starts up again. It's CHUCKY! Chucky tells Gene to shut the hell up. Lol, Rick is telling Chucky to come to the ring. Rick's mom tells Chucky that Rick played with dolls his whole life. Everyone should go see his new movie, The Bride of Chucky. DON'T MESS WITH SCOTT. Chuck wants to be a director and Scott will be his ticket to an Oscar. Fans were into it before he plugged his movie and then turned on it hard. What's really great about this is that it had been planned for like a month. Chucky had more build than the last PPV.

ibpbbiK13PHa5B.gif


Bischoff comes out and says that he owns the building tonight since he has the lease and he doesn't want Ric Flair in it. He calls Dillinger and JoJo to the ring. He wants them to take him to the skybox. Bischoff gets hit with a few things on way up. They finally make their way up there. Bischoff shoves Bruce MacArthur and gets tackled by security right away. SWERVE. We finally get back to them and we see security still escorting Bischoff around the back.

iqb3XkQRnmk1h.gif


The Giant vs Goldberg WCW Championship No Disqualification

Giant does a standing dropkick. Granted, it only made it to Goldberg's stomach, but still. Body slam WIT DA GREATEST OF EASE. Stevie Ray hits Goldberg with a chair. Didn't even phase him. Chokeslam! DDP breaks up the pin. Kanyon Cutter on Stevie. BANG! Spear to Giant as he had DDP up for the chokeslam. Goldberg wins by count out in this no DQ match. I guess that really was a rule all along.

i06wBuTr6i26v.gif


Blade Runners vs Hollywood Hogan/Bret Hart

In theory, this is a massive match. Buffer says that this is the first time Sting and Warrior have ever teamed up, despite the announcers talking about Sting and Warrior teaming together when they started out. This is Warrior's first match on Nitro. Maybe only match on Nitro. Warrior decides he's going to wrestle in his jacket and pants. Sting and Hogan start out. Axe Bombbaa...to Hogan! Atomic drop. You gotta be shitting me, Sting is getting offense on Hogan. Bret comes in and Sting also beats him down. This ends with a low blow. Hogan his one of his own. They double team Sting for a bit. DDT. Sting hits a small package. Bret kicks out. Why do I feel Warrior isn't even going to get in this match? Hot tag. I was wrong! He hits a series of clotheslines on Bret. Hogan attacks before he can hit the press slam. Then the nWo runs in. The ring fills up with smoke as fans are pelting the ring with trash. But they threw Warrior to the floor and now this smoke doesn't hurt nWo members. Sting gets in the ring with his bat and clears everyone out. Warrior then chases nWo members ot the back with Hogan's weight belt. WE'RE OUTTA TIME.

ipdy6Qa9AVS6k.gif


Man, I can't believe they didn't try to give this a week of build. The worst thing about WCW main events is that when they DO put one on you want to see, it's always short with no finish and leaves you wanting more. But then they never give it to you. They're they ultimate blue ballers. It makes sense to do a 5 minute non finish match on Nitro and then have the real match at the PPV. But usually they do the same thing on PPV or just don't have the match again.

On the plus side, they're 2 weeks away from a PPV and already have 5 matches announced. There is at least one more (Disco vs Kidman) that seems like a pretty obvious match to get added to the card.
 
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