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September Wrasslin |OT| Team WWF vs. The World
- Thread starter Kaladin
- Start date
British Monsoon
Member
I can't believe how much shit WWE have saddled Claudio with by; making him a rugby player, giving him awful music and and awful finisher, making him feud with Santino and making him go through the rigmarole of "heel dumps girlfriend after she costs him match" that WWE seems to love so much. If there's ever a time when Claudio's hugely over in WWE, be it as heel or face, I'll be surprised, because they've totally botched his first few months.
Manami Toyota kicking faces off;
I would have stuck around, but I had guests arrive who were all "WTF is this shit?" when The Extreme Trio & Team WWF were wrestling in slo-mo, so I thought it best not to subject them to night 2, lol. Sucks there wasn't more interest in KoT here - night 3 is meant to be one of the best shows of the year from any promotion, but hey, it's not free, it's not on TV, it doesn't have "teh production valuezzzzz" and, no matter how easy CHIKARA & SMV make it to view, you still have to drop money on it, and that's the REAL problem of the matter.
Manami Toyota kicking faces off;
I would have stuck around, but I had guests arrive who were all "WTF is this shit?" when The Extreme Trio & Team WWF were wrestling in slo-mo, so I thought it best not to subject them to night 2, lol. Sucks there wasn't more interest in KoT here - night 3 is meant to be one of the best shows of the year from any promotion, but hey, it's not free, it's not on TV, it doesn't have "teh production valuezzzzz" and, no matter how easy CHIKARA & SMV make it to view, you still have to drop money on it, and that's the REAL problem of the matter.
BillRiccio
Member
Preach on brother! I'm hoping the real wrassling fans will be joining us later for night three because it is that good. I also hope I don't see any complaining about WWE from here on out as the majority of you seem to only watch what they give you and even when given the chance to try something new you still only watch the E. Your not wrassling fans, your entertainment fans.
Net_Wrecker
Member
I told you guys not to be excited for his WWE run, at least in the beginning. I can't even remember the last time they got someone's first 8-12 months right. If I didn't know how great Claudio was, I'd throw him in the junk pile with Brodus Clay, Ryback, Jinder Mahal, Tensai (who's in the same predicament), and the rest of the newer guys.
And stop getting butthurt, CHIKARA WrassleGaffers. Your fight will be a long and difficult one, and even then, many will never deviate from the course laid out by Vince & The Monkeys. Just face it, most are fans of the WWE, not wrestling in general.
Arrowgigantic
Member
"I am three of the tag team champions!"
"No, I-- eh, whatever."
British Monsoon
Member
They should have debuted Claudio with his Swiss Money Holdings gimmick, even though it's similar to Del Rio - the two could have formed a stable.
So they're masochists, then? Gotcha.
*edit, talent signed for the SHINE 4 iPPV on October 19th;
SHIMMER Title Match: Saraya Knight (c) vs. Jazz
Mercedes Martinez
Rain
Allysin Kay
Taylor Made
Reby Sky
Jessicka Havok
Christina von Eerie
Davina Rose (SHINE debut)
Kellie Skater (SHINE debut)
Leva Bates
Santana
Kimberly
Rhia O'Reilly (SHINE debut)
Su Yung
Brandi Wine (SHINE debut)
Shazza McKenzie (SHINE debut)
Nice, some good additions to the roster there - both Rose & Skater are great, and I'm looking forward to seeing more of Rhia O'Reilly.
Spoilers from last night's ROH TV taping, including Survival of the Fittest 2012;
Huh, surprised
Net_Wrecker said:
So they're masochists, then? Gotcha.
*edit, talent signed for the SHINE 4 iPPV on October 19th;
SHIMMER Title Match: Saraya Knight (c) vs. Jazz
Mercedes Martinez
Rain
Allysin Kay
Taylor Made
Reby Sky
Jessicka Havok
Christina von Eerie
Davina Rose (SHINE debut)
Kellie Skater (SHINE debut)
Leva Bates
Santana
Kimberly
Rhia O'Reilly (SHINE debut)
Su Yung
Brandi Wine (SHINE debut)
Shazza McKenzie (SHINE debut)
Nice, some good additions to the roster there - both Rose & Skater are great, and I'm looking forward to seeing more of Rhia O'Reilly.
Spoilers from last night's ROH TV taping, including Survival of the Fittest 2012;
Episode 1 (October 6th 2012)
- Survival of the Fittest 2012: Adam Cole def. Tadarius Thomas
- Rhett Titus & BJ Whitmer def. Charlie Haas & Shelton Benjamin. BJ picked up the win with a schoolboy on Shelton. Post match, WGTT beat down both men.
- S.C.U.M cut a promo in the ring but are cut off by Truth Martini & Michael Elgin. Elgin began to attack Steen, but was out-numbered by all 3 members of S.C.U.M. Rhino & The Guardians of Truth make the save, however Elgin doesn’t appreciate the help.
- ROH World Tag Team Titles: Coleman & Alexander def. Steve Corino & Jimmy Jacobs via DQ. During a post match beatdown, Michael Elgin made the save.
Episode 2 (October 13th 2012)
- Survival of the Fittest 2012: Davey Richards def. Mike Bennett. The end of the match saw Bennett distracted by Mike Mondo, who stealing a kiss from Maria once again.
- Tommaso Ciampa & RD Evans come out for a promo. Evans says that Ciampa is a thoroughbred, and when a thoroughbred has a broken leg, you shoot it. Evans then reveals his new client, QT Marshall.
- Survival of the Fittest 2012: Jay Lethal def. QT Marshall via Lethal Injection. Prince Nana comes out and attacks RD Evans after the match.
- ROH World Championship: Kevin Steen def. Rhett Titus via F5.
Episode 3 (October 20th 2012)
- Survival of the Fittest 2012: Roderick Strong def. Homicide via Gibson Driver
- Survival of the Fittest 2012: Mike Mondo def. Kyle O’Reilly via Kondo Clutch. Davey Richards was sat at ringside
- Survival of the Fittest 2012: Michael Elgin def. Rhino via Elgin Bomb.
Episode 4 (October 27th 2012)
- The Briscoes def. The Bravado Brothers. After the match, the Guardians of Truth reveal themselves as the Headbangers.
- The Headbangers def. Fusion DS (Taped for the official ROH website)
- Survival of the Fittest 2012 Finals:
Roderick Strong eliminated Mondo via Sick Kick
Adam Cole eliminated Roderick Strong via Superkick
Michael Elgin eliminated Adam Cole via Tornado Bomb
Lethal & Davey eliminated Michael Elgin via stereo kicks
Jay Lethal eliminated Davey Richards via Lethal Injection to win SOTF 2012!
- Survival of the Fittest 2012: Adam Cole def. Tadarius Thomas
- Rhett Titus & BJ Whitmer def. Charlie Haas & Shelton Benjamin. BJ picked up the win with a schoolboy on Shelton. Post match, WGTT beat down both men.
- S.C.U.M cut a promo in the ring but are cut off by Truth Martini & Michael Elgin. Elgin began to attack Steen, but was out-numbered by all 3 members of S.C.U.M. Rhino & The Guardians of Truth make the save, however Elgin doesn’t appreciate the help.
- ROH World Tag Team Titles: Coleman & Alexander def. Steve Corino & Jimmy Jacobs via DQ. During a post match beatdown, Michael Elgin made the save.
Episode 2 (October 13th 2012)
- Survival of the Fittest 2012: Davey Richards def. Mike Bennett. The end of the match saw Bennett distracted by Mike Mondo, who stealing a kiss from Maria once again.
- Tommaso Ciampa & RD Evans come out for a promo. Evans says that Ciampa is a thoroughbred, and when a thoroughbred has a broken leg, you shoot it. Evans then reveals his new client, QT Marshall.
- Survival of the Fittest 2012: Jay Lethal def. QT Marshall via Lethal Injection. Prince Nana comes out and attacks RD Evans after the match.
- ROH World Championship: Kevin Steen def. Rhett Titus via F5.
Episode 3 (October 20th 2012)
- Survival of the Fittest 2012: Roderick Strong def. Homicide via Gibson Driver
- Survival of the Fittest 2012: Mike Mondo def. Kyle O’Reilly via Kondo Clutch. Davey Richards was sat at ringside
- Survival of the Fittest 2012: Michael Elgin def. Rhino via Elgin Bomb.
Episode 4 (October 27th 2012)
- The Briscoes def. The Bravado Brothers. After the match, the Guardians of Truth reveal themselves as the Headbangers.
- The Headbangers def. Fusion DS (Taped for the official ROH website)
- Survival of the Fittest 2012 Finals:
Roderick Strong eliminated Mondo via Sick Kick
Adam Cole eliminated Roderick Strong via Superkick
Michael Elgin eliminated Adam Cole via Tornado Bomb
Lethal & Davey eliminated Michael Elgin via stereo kicks
Jay Lethal eliminated Davey Richards via Lethal Injection to win SOTF 2012!
Huh, surprised
Lethal won the whole thing, would have preferred Cole TBH.
pants
Member
I quite like Dean Malenko's theme
Net_Wrecker
Member
As well as slaves to nostalgia. Production values and national television network deals are part of the attachment as well, but there is no stronger shackle than that of a mind longing for the days of yore.
And y'know, "high drama" and all dat nonsense, nah'mean?
British Monsoon
Member
There's nothing wrong with being a fan of sports entertainment, and if that's what you're watching for, then there's no better place for it than WWE. My issue will always be with those who profess to be fans of wrestling while watching nothing but WWE, complaining bitterly about near enough every episode of RAW and rambling on how much better wrestling used to be during their precious attitude era.
pants said:
Oh yeah, I forgot they changed it. Cesaro's previous music was awful;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBiiF31-mwE
I'm hoping Claudio getting rid of Aksana will help him out. That pairing was doing absolutely nothing for him. Hopefully it is the start of a retooling. Give him some knee pads, drop the "I can say a word in 5 languages" nonsense, and put him in a program with a guy he can actually have good matches with. Being paired up with Santino is no way to get a guy over in the ring. Anyone paired up with Santino is immediately seen as a fellow comedy character. He needs to be wrestling guys like Christian, Kofi, Rey, Sin Cara, and that's about it because all the other good mid card guys are heels. I bet he'd be the best opponent Sin Cara can have besides Rey. I'd really like to see that match and I'm not even a fan of Sin Cara.
If they had him as a face as Claudio doing the HEEEEYY thing, he'd be over in a few weeks. Anything to get the crowd into matches. YES got D-Brine the most over guy on any given show. HEEEEEYYY would be so money. I don't get the point of hiring indy guys based on their talent, and then taking away what make them popular and talented in the first place.
It took them two years before they started using Punk in a way that actually made sense and took advantage of his skill set. Take a guy who was hired based on his charisma and talking ability who is not known at all for his athletic ability or tightness in technique and for being a giant douche bag heel...and bring him in as a straight laced, man of few words Muay Thai fighter babyface? How does that make any sense at all? It seems like guys in NXT are essentially their indy characters with different names. Hopefully that trend stays when they get called up to the next level. Chris Hero being Chris Hero in WWE would be the tits, yo.
If they had him as a face as Claudio doing the HEEEEYY thing, he'd be over in a few weeks. Anything to get the crowd into matches. YES got D-Brine the most over guy on any given show. HEEEEEYYY would be so money. I don't get the point of hiring indy guys based on their talent, and then taking away what make them popular and talented in the first place.
It took them two years before they started using Punk in a way that actually made sense and took advantage of his skill set. Take a guy who was hired based on his charisma and talking ability who is not known at all for his athletic ability or tightness in technique and for being a giant douche bag heel...and bring him in as a straight laced, man of few words Muay Thai fighter babyface? How does that make any sense at all? It seems like guys in NXT are essentially their indy characters with different names. Hopefully that trend stays when they get called up to the next level. Chris Hero being Chris Hero in WWE would be the tits, yo.
British Monsoon
Member
Yeah, it's really perplexing - sure, they struck lucky with Bryan, but there's no way they hired him because of his promo skills. They hired him because he's a hugely impressive technical wrestler who shows good intensity, and it was so infuriating seeing them do everything but book him as such.
strobogo said:
Pity Barrett's new finisher infringes on Hero's gimmick - I can't see WWE allowing two very similar finishers on the roster at once, even if one is an elbow and the other a forearm smash.
To be fair, they've portrayed Daniel Bryan as this awesome wrestler since day one of NXT. He just lost a lot. Which kind of works against him being hyped up as the godly wrestler, but it also, in theory, makes whoever beat him seem like the real deal. Which is also good, in theory, but in practice when he lost for like a year straight, it made him seem like a chump even if everyone could tell he was the more talented guy.
And since his title reign, he's for sure been booked as the most amazing in ring guy even when being a chickenshit heel. Now that he's forced to be an actual character, he's taken that ball much further than I think anyone could have imagined. I see a lot of parallels between he and Eddie in that sense. He was always fantastic at wrestling, but not outside of it. Until he went to WWE and evolved into this monster of a complete package. Eddie in 2002-2005 was a completely different animal that his entire career up to that point. It really started more in 2000, but it was cemented in 2002. I think Daniel Bryan is in the midst of that same transformation and it is awesome.
And since his title reign, he's for sure been booked as the most amazing in ring guy even when being a chickenshit heel. Now that he's forced to be an actual character, he's taken that ball much further than I think anyone could have imagined. I see a lot of parallels between he and Eddie in that sense. He was always fantastic at wrestling, but not outside of it. Until he went to WWE and evolved into this monster of a complete package. Eddie in 2002-2005 was a completely different animal that his entire career up to that point. It really started more in 2000, but it was cemented in 2002. I think Daniel Bryan is in the midst of that same transformation and it is awesome.
I haven't followed Bryan. I started watching weekly back when he had AJ as a girlfriend. All I saw was a douchebag tansform into one of my favorite characters.
It takes them too damn long to figure out how to write characters and some stay generic their whole career.
Mr. Luchador
Member
Need more Slow-Mo spots in Pro Wrestling.
SousedLouse
Member
Are there any rules as to when and how the IRC channel is used when it comes to PPVs and such, or is it just for big events?
Enough with this nonsense. It's really presumptive to assume that just because some people don't have the money or time to spend watching a wrestling DVD that now they're not "real wrestling fans." Personally, I was hanging out with my friends yesterday. It was the first chance I've had to hang out with them (we've all been busy with work and school) in a month, and if I'd rather be with them than watch wrestling, then I guess I'm not a "real wrestling fan". Most people here watch RAW, SD!, and Impact, plus PPVs. That's 7-10 hours of wrestling per week. How much more of a person's life do you want before you consider them "real wrestling fans." It may not be what you consider to be good wrestling, but they're real wrestling fans. Just because not all of us enjoy Chikara doesn't mean we have to wallow to you high and mighty "real wrestling fans."
EDIT: Shit, I posted a bunch of old FMW matches last week. No one commented, and I doubt anyone watched. People are busy, and they may not be interested. This is a video game message board that happens to also have a wrestling thread. It's not going to have the most hardcore of hardcore wrestling fans. Just accept it. It's not like anyone is stopping you from posting what you want.
I'm a fan of convenience, so while I have enjoyed what few bits and pieces of Chikara I've seen on youtube I can still get any "wrasslin'" fix I have for free via WWE.
or whenever bootaaay posts something
I would have joined in the King of Trios watching party but it was just bad timing for me. Plus back to back 2 shows is a lot of wrestling, sometimes you just need to go outside, find a dog and pat its head and think of the good times.
There's plenty of people here who enjoy all sorts of wrestling, be happy that a few watched KoT together. It's all good, I'll catch up with it at some point and digest it and discuss it maybe. What am I trying to say? Nothing.
There's plenty of people here who enjoy all sorts of wrestling, be happy that a few watched KoT together. It's all good, I'll catch up with it at some point and digest it and discuss it maybe. What am I trying to say? Nothing.
British Monsoon
Member
Enough of this shit. Who cares what the fuck you watch, as long as you enjoy it.
Hiroshi Tanahashi, Hirooki Goto, Karl Anderson & Tama Tonga vs Kazuchika Okada, Shinuke Nakamura, Yujiro Takahashi & Tomohiro Ishii - (NJPW 09/17/12)
This was FUN. Good 20 minutes of New Japan 8-man tag action, with a surprising finish. Yujiro has been improving quite a bit, and since his performance against Tanahashi in the G1 some fans seem to be warming to him.
Hiroshi Tanahashi, Hirooki Goto, Karl Anderson & Tama Tonga vs Kazuchika Okada, Shinuke Nakamura, Yujiro Takahashi & Tomohiro Ishii - (NJPW 09/17/12)
This was FUN. Good 20 minutes of New Japan 8-man tag action, with a surprising finish. Yujiro has been improving quite a bit, and since his performance against Tanahashi in the G1 some fans seem to be warming to him.
Spiderjericho
Member
I have a good friend who I've known for 15 years. We became friends through wrestling. In our first year of friendship we went to a WWE house show, Monday Night Nitro and watching wrestling at each other's houses.
But as of late, he's the type of person you're describing above. He harkens to days of yore (not Attitude era but 80s/90s WWE, Smokie Mountain Wrestling, NWA/WCW) and has practically lost interest in wrestling due to the mainstream (since he doesn't know much about ROH, Chikara, etc).
We were supposed to this year's Mania, but his disinterest basically made it fall through.
I don't have an issue with the mentality, especially with Facebook, modern TV, sports, etc. But those who keep sipping the nostalgia juice have to realize, WWE sucked in the early 90s (Lex Express, Yokozuna, trying to get Brett over, etc). There were a few rays of light like HBK, Brett, Owen Hart, Taker (though he's an example of rose-tinted also) and a few others. WCW was a mess.
We're basically going through generational growing pains. TNA has been getting better. It's just the Aces and Eight + Claire Lynch angles that have brought it down.
And WWE is kind of in a situation to where they were post Hulk Hogan/Ultimate Warrior. Cena/Sheamus/Orton shoved down our throats. Cena no selling during matches/technically sucking and not seriously selling angles except for the recent Punk angle. Sheamus having 0 character, boring feuds and not having the fans not really being behind him. Orton just being a stale face.
The "new" guys have had Vince's ridiculous 80s character gimmicks hoisted on them versus the more natural Attitude gimmicks.
And of course having the rugs pulled under character pushes (Kofi, Bryan, etc).
Punk, Bryan, Claudio, Sandow, Ziggler, Kofi, R-Truth and to some extent Zack Ryder can all be legitimate stars, but it's just a lack of confidence and Vince's predisposition to tall, roided out superstars.
Arrowgigantic
Member
When I got the idea of Best of the Indies Month, I thought I would try and expose some people who were not enjoying the TV product here to alternatives. Sure the production values might not be there, and indie wrestling isn't free but it is an alternative. Clearly that didn't work. I think we had a few new people try out Ring of Honor, and thanks for that but their problems probably drove those people away. I honestly don't see a reason to continue DVD/MP4 community viewings when the same three people are the only regulars. At least we usually get a few more for an iPPV crowd.
BillRiccio
Member
Going to the AIW show later today. I'm really looking forward to seeing ACH live and in person again. The match of the night though is going to be Kingston vs Whitmer. Can't wait to see these guy's beat the hell out of each other.
Sometimes I feel some people and I are watching completely different shows then I am.
Sandow, having only debuted a month or 4 ago, is one of their main heels, he's been in programs with their top stars and is being pushed heavily. Yes, he's not the WHC or WWE champ yet, but hey, the guy only just debuted. Bryan and Punk are not legitimate stars? Bryan has been one of the main performers of every Raw and Smackdown since WrestleMania. Punk has been WWE Champ for 10 months now, going over Cena several times. Kofi's offense is crap and that's why he's not getting over. Cesaro has been pushed as well, once again, only just debuted. He's not going to be the main focus of either brand after 4 months, but he gets airtime, mic time, a title and wins nearly every match he's in unless it benefits his storyline. Going over a guy like Santino might not mean much to you, but the crowds love that guy, it's doing wonders for his heel heat. Ziggler might lose alot, but he's put up against their top stars on every Raw and Smackdown because they love how the guy makes them look amazing. It's why he's getting over with the crowd. Also, losing streaks are how they built MitB winners, hell, just look at Bryan just a year ago. They're behind the guy and he's in line for a WHC run, so just be patient on that one.
I'll give you R-Truth, who's been mishandled last year when he was having a great heel run. And I'll give you Ryder, who got himself over. But to be quite honest, his in-ring work is mediocre and his character is to 1-dimensional for a decent upper midcard or main event run. He needs to work on that.
WWE has plenty of flaws, but things aren't half as bleak as some of the people in this thread make it out to be. Do you remember how long it took Austin to actually get over after King of The Ring? How long it took The Rock after his debut? People don't get over in two seconds, it takes a while to build them up for the crowd. Bryan's popularity didn't skyrocket after cashing in his MitB contract, it took a long storyline with AJ and Big Show, then Sheamus and finally Punk to get the majority of the crowd to love
to boo
tldr; I disagree so much with the idea that Vince is not behind these guys, esp. Ziggler, Bryan and Sandow are very much held in high regard backstage. You don't get this much airtime and trust with big names if you're not.
Hey man, I apreciate the hell out of the effort you put in this month. I was game for watching night 1 last night, but as these things go I had some friends come over last minute and had to quit. I'll watch KoT some night. But yeah, you'll never get large numbers watching these shows, because of the simple fact it's not live, people are not hyped by it (curse of not having a weekly show to get wrestlers and storylines I guess). I enjoyed the first two matches greatly and can't wait to watch the rest. If it wasn't for you I wouldn't have watched Kings of Trios at all except maybe a YT clip here or there, so count that one as a win!
British Monsoon
Member
Nice, looks like a good card - I really enjoyed the Kingston/Whitmer match from Absolution VI last year, just a great, hard-hitting slugfest with some exceptional selling from King. Glad to see Whitmer doing well, as he was one of my favourites in the early days of ROH and has really matured into an excellent competitor over the years.
Came here to post this, :lol
The most disturbing image of all time.
http://www.wwe.com/classics/classic-factions-reborn/page-8
This would actuallybe fucking amazing.
BillRiccio
Member
Couldn't agree with you more. When Whitmer first showed up in AIW I more or less just happy to see the guy after hearing how he kinda lost his passion for the biz. He has been quite a surprise though with darn near every single one of his matches being the MOTN. I'm really glad the guy has come back and even happier I get to see him do his thing live in person every month.
I just don't see why they are dead set on pushing certain gimmicks down your throat for months to years. Bryan was obviously an evolution based on crowd reaction. Austin came up with the 3:16 promo.
Too many stars are stagnant. Character revelations are few and far between.
Too many stars are stagnant. Character revelations are few and far between.
funkystudent
Member
billy beane
Banned
They forgot Nexus in that wwe.com article. I was told they were the most dominant force to ever hit the WWE Univierse.
British Monsoon
Member
So dominant they never even won any titles (that mattered*).
It was like WWE entirely forgot how stables are supposed to work. A bunch of heels join together and through nefarious means help each other to capture the gold and place themselves at the forefront of the promotion. Instead, we got a bunch of heels joining together in the hope that with 5-on-1 odds they just might overcome Cena's odds.
*
tag belts in 2010 most certainly did not matter.
The most dominant NXT scrubs to ever hit the WWE Universe.
British Monsoon
Member
SoulPlaya said:
Seriously. Taker is best as a heel, imo, even if it would now be close to impossible for the WWE audience to see him as such, and one of the reasons that stables are fucking awesome is that it gives underused guys like Yoshi something worthwhile to do.
No one said anything of the sort, and now you're just being facetious.
I just want them to give Yoshi a chance. Having all these guys in a heel stable with BoD leading it is exactly how these guys should be ending their careers. I wish Taker would come back as a heel. He wouldn't have to wrestle, Kane can do that. Just use his clout to get those other guys over.
EDIT: Because wwe.com talked about it, this will never happen now.
Looks like Slater, McIntyre and Mahal are now the International House Of Hits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED-365HC_fY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED-365HC_fY
I seriously want all of these to happen.
Did Slater say fat fuckasauras?