Serpentine
Banned
Jordan and Gable are so dope. love watching JJ just toss people around
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September Wrasslin |OT| The one night a year when every table will be on the line
- Thread starter Perspicacity
- Start date
Jordan and Gable are so dope. love watching JJ just toss people around
The flip over sell on DDTs is what killed that move. It makes it look like it never knocks anyone out and that it's just a transition move to get them on to their back. Jake had the best DDT because they were out cold face first on the mat and he had to push the carcass over.
Alot of moves have been killed that way, and the ring scenery in general because people position themselves which always looks bad and cheesey unless pulled off completely on point.
Back in the day you flipped your opponent, you dragged your opponent to the corner you set the stage.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
I don't want Raw EVERY week, or all of it, but I do watch at least parts of it the vast majority of weeks, and both Ambrose and Orton get consistently better reactions than Reigns, as well. Reigns does get pretty good reactions now, except with the really smarky crowds, but he's still not quite "there", with the crowd. In general, your characterizations of the crowd re: Bryan and Reigns have not been particularly accurate, and while I do appreciate the anti-smark sentiment that seems to have kicked in, recently, around the internet, as I think that it's necessary, I also think that it's best not to rewrite history around it.
Also, I won't have anybody crapping on the Lesnar/Reigns match. Going into it, I thought it would probably be horrendous, but I thought it was totally captivating. Everybody knew that Reigns couldn't look credible "Hulking up" and beating Lesnar, and they didn't go that route. The first half of the match was Lesnar throwing Reigns around the ring like he had done to Cena, yes, but the way they booked the comeback was really quite brilliant. It wasn't Roman no-selling Brock's offense to that point, it wasn't Roman suddenly busting out a whole bunch of moves he'd not done before. It was just Roman getting lucky and pushing Lesnar headfirst into the post and busting him open. Simple, arguably accidental (in terms of kayfabe, I mean), yet it allowed Roman to stage a believable comeback in which he just hit Lesnar with everything he had. Then Lesnar started to dominate again, leading into that absolutely brilliant moment where Roman started cackling at how much abuse he'd soaked up to that point, then managed to sneak in a few power moves where it looked like he might believably have lucked into a victory, then Rollins ran in and stole both guys' thunder. It wasn't necessarily a great match in terms of DA MOVEZ, but it was a GREAT match in terms of having intelligent, psychological, physical, classic wrestling storytelling that perfectly made use of both guys' strengths and covered up their weaknesses. I'd still argue it as the WWE MotY at this point, though I've not seen Sasha/Bayley yet.
Arrowgigantic
Member
Reigns isn't any better off now in terms of overness than he was when he won the Rumble. He's just being booked accordingly. If he starts getting booked like he's going somewhere again or goes over someone fans actually like, he'll get soundly booed again. He could get booed in a match with Rusev if he started to shine.
There was nothing like the Horsemen in their day, Tully, Arn, Ole, and Flair and their enemies Dusty, Nikita, Magnum TA, The Rock and Roll Express, Ronnie Garvin, the Road Warriors, Barry Windham (and when he was a Horseman)
There really was a larger than life feel, that is just lost anymore.
JJ was also just gold as the manager. While not as good as Heyman in some aspects he was better in many others.
He's been wrestling better ever since his mania match, which is always a good thing.
He'll never get over by hanging out with Ambrose though, who will steal all of his heat. He needs to feud with him instead.
Ziggler's spazzing around over-selling has grown really really old on me.
At the same time, a match like Rollins vs Cena could have been closer to 5 stars if they'd just sell a little longer after high spots. I know Austin kind of rails on about it a little too much, but there's truth to it. Guys popping up to do a second high spot after just getting annihilated by the previous high spot really ruins any suspension of disbelief.
Overselling is probably the thing I hate most in wrestling. I can't stand that shit, and every time I see Rock sells it makes me wince. The best stunner sells were always the early ones where they didn't know how to take it and just kind of slumped over. People shit on Vince's sell of the stunner, but I'll take that any day of the week over
You can sell shit theatrically like a Terry Funk or Scott Hall without doing gymnastics and just making someone go 'oh this is fake'
You can sell shit theatrically like a Terry Funk or Scott Hall without doing gymnastics and just making someone go 'oh this is fake'
Turning Roman heel on Ambrose would be such a good rub for both guys. I want to believe that's what they're building up to. But...probably fucking not.
Arrowgigantic
Member
Walks a board like motor side
Yeuh
Heat or no
So he chases them away yeh heh
Heal my whey
Heal my whey
YEA
Jimmy King
Member
Reigns' time will come and he'll be a solid main event player in the same ilk as Orton, but he's not gonna be the face of the company, though, that person is already in our midst
If you want to sell something right just watch old Scott Hall/Razor Ramon footage. He exaggerates stuff so the backrow can see it but also knows how to lie there, how to kick out groggily, how to look concussed, how not to snap right back up and do your own super move.
Randy Orton is also an underrated seller in this sort of way, though he's usually booked to be unstoppable. Old Man Taker and Brock are also good at it.
Randy Orton is also an underrated seller in this sort of way, though he's usually booked to be unstoppable. Old Man Taker and Brock are also good at it.
That kind of selling is lost on most of the new guys, it's really unfortunate. Wish they'd just already bring in Hall before he gets too old, just so he can teach specifically that kind of stuff.
FlammableD
Banned
Serpentine
Banned
I hate when people sell clotheslines by doing a complete flip over
Believe me, I know that Bryan was booked wonky pre and post-Summerslam and that it was partly circumstance and partly fan reaction that kept him in the main event at that time. As for your last point, it would be presented as a failure if the WWE was banking on Bryan being the future which that wasn't even the case from the beginning.
Him winning the WWE Title at last years Wrestlemania was just a way to satisfy the fans. Same with this year when Bryan won the Intercontinental. The way I see it, even if he was completely healthy and ready to go, Bryan's time in the main event still would've been a temporary thing from the get go as he's not clearly what the WWE has in mind for their main face of the company. He still would've been relegated in the mid card regardless of his body's condition.
As for Bryan coming back, it's like a whatever to me. If he decides to wrestle again, great. If not, then I guess it wasn't meant to be.
Yeah, Rhyno's Gore was legit, though I liked Goldberg's spear as well.
The real tragedy of the Bret screwed Bret thing, which ironically did save the company considering the McMahon/Austin feud is literally the highest drawing program of all time, is that he'd still be on his 20 year contract until next year that Vince could have easily paid for. Bret teaching everyone in NXT how to sell, or laying out the big matches. Think of what a fit he'd be in the company.
Probably would have kept his brother alive too. Oh well, you can't rewrite history. I loved the Blue Blazer gimmick when it was going on, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen if Bret is still with the company.
Probably would have kept his brother alive too. Oh well, you can't rewrite history. I loved the Blue Blazer gimmick when it was going on, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen if Bret is still with the company.
Fucking Goldberg man.
Serpentine
Banned
i don't remember those specifically. I think most of the time, the clotheslines/lariats don't look impactful enough to warrant it.I loved Rikishi's sells
Speaking of Owen, the trailer for his DVD was released:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8mpKE5Q040
This is gonna be a tough watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8mpKE5Q040
This is gonna be a tough watch
It makes me so happy that Vince was supposedly super high on Big E right of the gate. Hopefully that's still the case.Reigns' time will come and he'll be a solid main event player in the same ilk as Orton, but he's not gonna be the face of the company, though, that person is already in our midst
Bret's not even in my top 10 of all time and probably not my 20 of all time, but if I had an imaginary 'whoever you want' wrestling draft he would be my first pick. He's the perfect guy to build around even if he's not the focal point of the company. Him and Andre are like the perfect foundations.
I've always loved Big E. He looks like a bigger, blacker version of myself. He's super entertaining. The only thing they missed was never trying his 5 count gimmick. Him and AJ as dolph's assistants was great. Him having hoss matches with Ryback/Swagger/Russev were always good fun.
Their extremely narrow writing/booking focus has been the biggest problem I've seen since I started watching again a few years ago.
Which is ironic since they have an over-bloated writing staff that has more than enough people to deal with multiple storylines.
Jimmy King
Member
I admit, I foolishly thought that Bryan was going to change the tide and usher in a new era of WWE with iron man matches against Cesaro on PPV and all that smark shit, but, yeah, it was never gonna happen regardless. Same way people felt about Punk, I think.
Even his match with Kane at Extreme Rules had me semi-optimistic because even though the build up was the exact thing you did not want to see the actual match was solidly in Bryan's favor up until the end when Kane sat back up and you realized this shit was only going to get worse.
I know most GAFers won't like it, but I hope Ziggler turns on Lana the same way Tully turned on Baby Doll, and Rusev come out yelling "Stay away from Lana".
yankeeforever2
Member
WWE has been pushing the right people recently, just because Cena and Sting on in the main event scene right now doesn't mean they have don't high hopes Cesaro and the other young guys. Daniel Bryan's problem is injuries not they way he has been booked.
Would you say WWE completely fucking up that tidal wave of "this is the future" talent with the likes of Punk, Cesaro, Bryan, Ziggler, Cody, Miz and others might be causing you to feel negatively about Bryan today?
What is Cesaro's current storyline? Because I don't know. Unless there was something on RAW last week which I didn't watch.
Barrett has fallen so far that I forgot to even include him in my list of guys that they dropped the ball on.
nuclearaddict
Banned
Speaking of Owen, the trailer for his DVD was released:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8mpKE5Q040
This is gonna be a tough watch
I feel so lucky to have seen him wrestle live. Don't want to sound like a broken record, but he was so great.
That's also true. I see that wwe doesnt have any problem to put talent over in the first months.
The problem comes when they try to keep the momentum of the first months, and then see how the pushed wrestlers start fading and then put in mid/low card. Rusev and Kevin Owens are 2 examples that comes to mind (Rusev was an unstoppable heel and now is almost a comedy character, and KO lost all the momentum of his clean victory over cena.)
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't looking forward to what would happen after Bryan winning the title and see how he would be booked during that time (Kane notwithstanding). But I realized that Bryan's main event status would be a temporary thing and was along for that short ride. Would've been nice to see Brock vs Bryan at that time.
Oh well.
I think it was a mistake in not having Big E retain his 5 Count thing during his single's run.