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Guardian article

The nostalgics have won. That was the defining message of this year’s E3 expo in Los Angeles.

Fans have been demanding Shenmue 3 for over a decade, while a Final Fantasy VII remake has been the stuff of spiky haired dreams since Square Enix started obsessively mining the series for spin-offs, reboots and sequels to sequels many years ago.

So the fact that our prayers have been answered is terrific news, right? It’s better than Christmas. It’s the best thing that could ever conceivably happen. It’s... oh wait, we have fallen right into a nostalgia trap. Of course, there’s nothing wrong with wallowing in the quicksand of reminiscence, but it’s important to remember that sequels to, and remakes of, legendary titles will never realistically be able to live up to our expectations.

The thing is, what happens in the future? How far can this nostalgia industry go?

For a long time, Final Fantasy VII all but defined the role-playing game (RPG) genre – especially in the West. It had a huge influence on my childhood and was one of the first games I played and fully understood. But that’s the thing, it was my childhood. Nostalgia binds personal memories with the games themselves to create a heady, though misleading concoction of joy. I’ve hoped year after year for these announcements, but I’m still very apprehensive. This is about more than the re-release of two old titles; it’s bringing a culture of gaming back into a world that, for better or worse, has moved on. Shenmue and Final Fantasy VII were very different experiences but they were both, in many ways, pioneers in their sectors and some of the most memorable moments of both games were the inane quirks which don’t fit neatly into the sleek user experiences we see in most games today.

Indeed, by our contemporary standards, Shenmue and Final Fantasy VII were clunky and often unintuitive. In Final Fantasy VII moving could be confusing if you couldn’t clearly see where your character was or where you were trying to get to. Do we all remember climbing up to the Shinra offices and having to grab that swinging pole? That wasn’t fun. It was an atmospheric, gripping and inspiring scene but it wasn’t fun.

But the games I think of as classics may well be unapproachable, lacklustre and irrelevant to the current generation of gamer. Will this market find Shenmue’s hilariously “off” English dubbing endearing, would translation errors which became almost meme-like in the original Final Fantasy VII get the same warm reaction today? I doubt it. But then if nostalgia can fund and sustain a game, publishers don’t need to appeal to the demographic that will be horrified by the shortcomings of older titles. This is where there could be problems as two worlds collide: will shiny new reboots get wider appeal while alienating core fans apprehensive about overt changes to game systems? Or will the games be obsessively faithful to the past, ensuring that only committed fans will want to play them?

And even the most ardent of nostalgics may well be disappointed. After years of lavish open-world spectaculars like Skyrim, Grand Theft Auto 5 and Witcher 3, will Shenmue and Finally Fantasy VII feel a teeny bit... anemic? There’s little replayability with either of them, after all. They’re both linear, fixed stories with limited worlds to explore. 1997-1999 wasn’t an era of DLC or additional content, Final Fantasy VII had its secrets (and secret they stayed unless you picked up a magazine with hints); Shenmue had options, but not a lot of real freedom.

I’m not saying this isn’t Super Christmas Time, I’m just saying we have to be realistic. The Final Fantasy VII remake trailer gave me goosebumps and I’m sure any Shenmue 3 promotional material (by this point even a graphically updated Ryu drinking a can of delicious soda) will have the same effect, but to avoid heartbreak and disappointment we have to wait to see what these games will actually be.

I've not played Shenmue, but I first played FFVII in 2012, and I thought it was fantastic. I really dislike the whole "nostalgia" argument, it undermines the great games of the past, and I'm sure a lot of you here played FFVII or SoTN or Jet Set Radio or any number of great games years, or even decades, after they came out, and still found them to be incredible experiences

I understand that a lot of people who only play newer games, and never go back and play older games they either missed out on, or older games from their childhood, might find the transition from 2015 games to 1995 games jarring, but the same could be said about someone only watching films made after 2010 and then jumping back to watch a film from the 50s

I do understand that it's a challenge in making these games, as if you stick too rigidly to the old games, you might alienate those used to waypoints and autosaves, whereas if you modernise them you might offend those who merely want a graphical update

What do you think, GAF?

 

[TheSpoiler]

Fuck anyone who wants to play the same game with slight graphical upgrades. If they introduce a new system, so be it (as long as it's good). It's a remake, not a remaster.

 

[antitrop]

Debbie downer.

I just started replaying Final Fantasy VII the day after the announcement and every moment reconfirmed it as my favorite game ever made. I was having fun the entire time, even grabbing that swinging pole.

This guy can speak for himself.

 

[RubberJohnny]

Agree with all of this, I don't want Microsoft and Sony becoming primarily nostalgia-peddlers to ageing fans like Nintendo.

 

[Krev]

Sometimes it's good to look back to the old ways.

 

[astroturfing]

all i got is nostalgia, please let me have it

 

[Loudninja]

We cant just be happy can we?

 

[MassiveNights]

I don't want Shenmue 3 out of nostalgia.

Do people want Half-Life 3 out of nostalgia?

It's a sequel to a story I was invested in that ended on a cliffhanger.

 

[TheSpoiler]

We cant just be happy can we?

In the case of FF7, nobody is going to be happy either way.

Edit: Nostalgia isn't what drives me to buy a game. Shenmue and FF7 were great in their own right. However, if they update certain parts of the game (mainly, Shenmue allowing us to train moves again and giving us more of a reason to fight for the first half of the game), then I'm fine with it.

 

[Theonik]

Will this market find Shenmue’s hilariously “off” English dubbing endearing, would translation errors which became almost meme-like in the original Final Fantasy VII get the same warm reaction today? I doubt it. But then if nostalgia can fund and sustain a game, publishers don’t need to appeal to the demographic that will be horrified by the shortcomings of older titles.

I don't know why the writer talks about things in old games that were results of the times they were released, then says a new audience will not appreciate them when these sequels and remakes are exactly here to iron those problems out.

Edit: It's a weird complaint when both are trying to introduce old franchises to old fans but also to expand their audience in a new generation.

 

[Unknown One]

This guy can speak for himself.

Exactly. Hate it when people try to speak for everybody.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Even though I think Shenmue 3 could be a trainwreck I hate these "Why you shouldn't be excited"-articles.

 

[Sakujou]

Agree with all of this, I don't want Microsoft and Sony becoming primarily nostalgia-peddlers to ageing fans like Nintendo.

Its not just like nintendo. Its a problem in the gamers mentality.
Think about the petition about gamers who voted AGAINST the new metroid game...

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

It would have been a problem if there was nothing else worth showing at E3. But we still got Fallout 4, Mass Effect: Andromeda, Horizon, etc. No reason why we couldn't experience that bit of nostalgia.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Seems like a common sense sort of thing. Of course you want to temper expectations when nostalgia is involved. You can still have strong feelings for something and enjoy it even now, but perhaps won't have anywhere close to the same feelings with the remake or next game in the franchise.

To me the biggest thing is what the new generation will see. Will there be a ton of new gamers who jump onto shenmue & Final fantasy with just the newest game to enjoy since the others are too "old" for most at that point. Similar to what we see with elder scrolls and fallout? Or will they decide to dig through everything and enjoy it for what it was/is.

 

[fertygo]

Speak for yourself dude.

 

[Ferrio]

Even though I think Shenmue 3 could be a trainwreck I hate these "Why you shouldn't be excited"-articles.

Ya I'm not putting a lot of faith in what comes out, but the fans deserve their story finished. As long as that happens, mission accomplished.

 

[RPGam3r]

We cant just be happy can we?

Apparently not. I'm happy for the new stuff and the old stuff coming back.

 

[Acquiescence]

Shenmue 3 isn't nostalgia, it's the necessary continuation of a series that ended on a cliffhanger and is in desperate need of resolution.

 

[boredandlazy]

We cant just be happy can we?

There's so much stuff coming out that isn't a remake, just enjoy that instead.
No point pissing on everyone else's parade.

 

[blankempathy]

Shenmue 3 isn't nostalgia, it's the necessary continuation of a series that ended on a cliffhanger and is in desperate need of resolution.

Desperate? Come on now. Are people losing sleep over shenmue 3 not finishing?

 

[SaveTheQueen]

Can we just enjoy this moment...please. This industry is so toxic right now, that E3 night was so magical, and reminded me why I love gaming. No DLC BS or Red Bull XP. Just pure gaming passion. There are much more important things that we shouldn't give into.

 

[Vylash]

let people be happy about getting another chance to experience the games they like

why do people feel the need to be so damn whiny about everything

 

[Jigorath]

Looks like the fun police have arrived. I don't love FFVII as much as others but I'm not going to go rain on people's parades just because they're excited about it.

 

[Newtype-001]

I dont see how the writer can just decide that the games wont live up to expectations...

 

[PrintedCrayon]

It's good to look back sometimes.

I have no problem with allowing fans of older games getting newer experiences from remakes or remasters, after all isn't it down to them what they want to spend their money on? Also, you can't really moan about navel-gazing and nostalgia when those lead to positives, look at games like Wasteland 2 and Shenmue III getting kickstarted!

Let the market decide what it wants, it could be argued that an oversaturation of older games is a problem for video games, but it also opens up avenues for new fans of series (I for one am looking forward to checking out FFVII - A game I never had the chance to play as a kid)

Complaining about nostalgia is pointless all things considered.

Why can't people look for the positives in things rather than always trying to be cold and cynical...

 

[ninanuam]

I can't speak to FF7 but Shenmue was a unique experience in games at the time it came out and nothing has really replaced it. Until now it stood out as a cut back branch in the evolution of gaming before the open world and sand box template had truly been set.

Shenmue happened and then gaming went in a completely different direction.

It also cut short a story that some people did actually give a shit about.


Both of these reasons are why I backed it, not because I played it when I was 20 years old and I have a nostalgic longing but because I actually liked what Shenmue was and I thought there was something special about it even when I played on the DC and then the second one on the OG Xbox.

 

[sparkzero]

I've not played Shenmue, but I first played FFVII in 2012, and I thought it was fantastic. I really dislike the whole "nostalgia" argument, it undermines the great games of the past, and I'm sure a lot of you here played FFVII or SoTN or Jet Set Radio or any number of great games years, or even decades, after they came out, and still found them to be incredible experiences

Agreed. I played the Shenmue games for the first time in 2009 and I thought they were incredible games. Same thing with Chrono Trigger, which I played on the DS. No nostalgia bonus there, they are just great games even today.

 

[Theonik]

Desperate? Come on now. Are people losing sleep over shenmue 3 not finishing?

Some of them are.

 

[Piers]

I'm less worried about the games turning out badly as I am with NeoGAF reflecting on how Shenmue III/FFVII:R were inferior to the older games after their release.

 

[GlamFM]

Thing is, while you can still pop in almost any 8 or 16 bit game and have fun early "3D" games are almost unplayable today.

Especially all this PS1 stuff is sooo janky and so ugly to look at - I just can´t do it.

SMW? Sonic? Mega Man? Sure thing.

 

[John Bender]

Debbie downer.

I just started replaying Final Fantasy VII the day after the announcement and every moment reconfirmed it as my favorite game ever made. I was having fun the entire time, even grabbing that swinging pole.

This guy can speak for himself.

Absolutely agree!
Article is nonsense (to me).

 

[Zekra Dezivad]

I'm sorry, negative article, I've already given up to nostalgia.
TOO LATE!

 

[Theonik]

Thing is, while you can still pop in almost any 8 or 16 bit game and have fun early "3D" games are almost unplayable today.

Especially all this PS1 stuff is sooo janky and so ugly to look at - I just can´t do it.

SMW? Sonic? Mega Man? Sure thing.

Not all of them, Spyro The Dragon 2/3 and Crash 2/3 are pretty playable. But they were basically some of the best looking games of that generation.

 

[Nozem]

Debbie downer.

I just started replaying Final Fantasy VII the day after the announcement and every moment reconfirmed it as my favorite game ever made. I was having fun the entire time, even grabbing that swinging pole.

This guy can speak for himself.

Exactly the same here. I'm enjoying the shit out of my playthrough.

 

[John Dunbar]

I don't want Shenmue 3 out of nostalgia.

Do people want Half-Life 3 out of nostalgia?

yes.

people also want grr martin to write the winds of winter out of nostalgia.

 

[thunder_snail]

I'd rather play a major remake or a long awaited sequel to a classic than say, another Ass Creed or whatever.

 

[watership]

I agree with this article completely, but writing it so close to the hype these games generated will just fall on deaf ears and eyes. The only way those who are beyond hyped for this sort of thing will come to agree on this viewpoint, is for them to actually play these games and realize, "Shit. I waited decades for this?" Unless Shenmue III turns out to be a masterpiece or they rework FFVII into something incredibly different.. I don't see them living up to the hype.

 

[manipulate]

It's a good article, and decently thoughtful about a few things. However:

And even the most ardent of nostalgics may well be disappointed. After years of lavish open-world spectaculars like Skyrim, Grand Theft Auto 5 and Witcher 3, will Shenmue and Finally Fantasy VII feel a teeny bit... anemic? There’s little replayability with either of them, after all. They’re both linear, fixed stories with limited worlds to explore. 1997-1999 wasn’t an era of DLC or additional content, Final Fantasy VII had its secrets (and secret they stayed unless you picked up a magazine with hints); Shenmue had options, but not a lot of real freedom.

Beyond reliving a brilliant story and chasing secrets you may have missed in an earlier playthrough, there was no real reason to replay Final Fantasy VII.

The fascinating thing is I believe the exact opposite is actually accurate. Once you've played Skyrim for 100 hours or whatever, do you really want to go in for it again? The replayability of Skyrim is actually quite poor; it's just not very fun or interesting after the first time (but the initial playtime is huge). Whereas for more focused, narrative-driven games, it's like watching a movie again. You notice more/different things, and it's an explicit journey that you hop in for another ride with. Crafted narratives are designed to be experienced multiple times, and lend themselves to that end much more effectively.

 

[Son Of D]

And here's our daily Oni-Link thread.

Anyway, this article would have a case if those games is all we were show. This is the same conference that showed Horizon: Zero Dawn and Dream, both new IPs. Also The Last GuGuardian, a new IP that was initially shown in 2009. We also saw new entries in more recent franchises like Mass Effect, Mirrors Edge and Gears of War.

 

[boredandlazy]

It's a good article, and decently thoughtful about a few things. However:



The fascinating thing is I believe the exact opposite is actually accurate. Once you've played Skyrim for 100 hours or whatever, do you really want to go in for it again? The replayability of Skyrim is actually quite poor; it's just not very fun or interesting after the first time (but the initial playtime is huge). Whereas for more focused, narrative-driven games, it's like watching a movie again. You notice more/different things, and it's an explicit journey that you hop in for another ride with.

I think I've played through FFVII at least 16 times over the last 18 years. Mostly when I was younger I'd play through it over my school holidays. Still looking forwards to playing the PC port for PS4 soon.

 

[Vital Tundra]

I just replayed FF7, and nostalgia definitely won't cloud my judgement. There are times in that game where the story just falls off, characters are terrible, and dialogue makes no sense (that will finally be fixed). But I'm not worried because they will fix those things, and hopefully update the battle system. Because despite what people may want, I want something new for this "Remake", not the same game. A game which is very old and who's battle system is very boring to say the least. Great at the time, not engaging enough anymore.

 

[sora87]

I'm comfortable giving into my nostalgia. Just sucks we won't play them until 2017.

 

[jimboton]

It's precisely years of 'lavish open world spectaculars' what makes me look to the past in search of not completely braindead entertainment, not nostalgia. I say bring them on. If guys like this have to learn to play without quest markers and endless handholding so be it

 

[CaptainofIndustry]

Read the title and thought for sure this would be a Polygon article.

Fuck, can't we just enjoy the things. Every fucking thing has to be dissected to death.

 

[Rymuth]

I think I've played through FFVII at least 16 times over the last 18 years. Mostly when I was younger I'd play through it over my school holidays. Still looking forwards to playing the PC port for PS4 soon.

It really seems like a different life for me today, thinking back on how I could finish an RPG multiple times. Now I just play once and move on.

Getting older sucks. :L

 

[manipulate]

I think I've played through FFVII at least 16 times over the last 18 years. Mostly when I was younger I'd play through it over my school holidays. Still looking forwards to playing the PC port for PS4 soon.

You caught me before my edit, but yep. I've played through most FFs multiple times. I usually play FF7 and FF8 about once every couple of years. FF9 and FF10 a few times. About time for another FF12 replay... (actually that one is probably the least replayable precisely because of how relatively un-narrative-driven it is!)

 

[Dynedom]

It's like none of the new IP's being introduced at e3 over the past few years matter.

We can have new breakthrough titles and love letters to the past. We are allowed to be excited. We've been shown that not every new thing thrown at us deserves to be praised and replicated just as much as things from the past don't need to be bemoaned and discarded.

 

[DangerMouse]

We cant just be happy can we?

This. Good fucking god, why can't we have both like we're getting?

Sony's conference showed that we're getting both stuff like FFVII Remake/Shenmue III and brand new stuff like Horizon, The Last Guardian, Uncharted 4, and Dreams at the same time. S-E's equally large E3 showing showed that we're getting both FFVII Remake and brand new stuff like Kingdom Hearts III, FFXV, Nier 2, SO5, and a brand new IP in Project Setsuna all at the same time while they are no doubt working on FFXVI behind the scenes. Why can't these people be happy we're getting BOTH.

 

[Dangoesforth]

I imagine the publishers did extensive research into the profitability of these projects.
Moment they could rely on a nostalgic title to be profitable, it was going to be made.