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[Chmpocalypse]

Moral of the story wear masks and nondiscript clothing next time

Yep. I fully support that. Fuck coddling racism.

 

[Astral/H3X]

So you want a plaque that says "#notallracists, both sides amirite"?

You're just fucking dense at this point.

I'm fucking done with this thread. I have a single shred of sympathy for the people I explicitly state aren't racist as a qualifier, and suddenly I fucking love the confederacy and am wearing a nice little white hood.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

II'm saying, hey, maybe a plaque, like, "hey guys remember, not everyone who fought even wanted that shit, let's use that as a point to say hey you know war is bad".

That's really stupid. Or to quote another post...

You're just fucking dense at this point.

Also ...

I'm fucking done with this thread.

Good. You were done from the start.

 

[Ascenion]

I wish we could just put the damn things in a Civil War museum, if they are from at the latest 1900 and call it a day. Like it or not the Civil War is our history and the confederacy is southern history. I'm saying this as a black man too. Don't honor the confederacy so remove them from public view, but respect history and put them in a museum.

 

[MisterShine]

It was a civil war... they could have ya know joined the other side.

Fun historical fact: More than 100,000 men from Confederate states served and fought for the Union during the civil war. The whole Confederate army was about 800,000.

 

[Slayven]

You're just fucking dense at this point.

I'm fucking done with this thread. I have a single shred of sympathy for the people I explicitly state aren't racist as a qualifier, and suddenly I fucking love the confederacy and am wearing a nice little white hood.

You want plaque saying people that fought for slavery wasn't bad. I can't fathom absolving someone of that level of evil. Not even on some hippy shit, but damn....

 

[Nikodemos]

It's that Auschwitz guard thread all over again.

That SS accountant spent 20 years fighting deniers, while being perfectly aware he would be indicted once his name reached the prosecutors. Plus nobody intends to make him a statue.

 

[Nekofrog]

I'm not one to expect mass suicides.

Nor am I asking for a statue of these people.

I'm saying, hey, maybe a plaque, like, "hey guys remember, not everyone who fought even wanted that shit, let's use that as a point to say hey you know war is bad".

Why? Not everyone agrees with this. There should be no public acknowledgement full stop of anyone in regards to the confederacy unless they were known Union spies who fucked shit up for the terrorists bringing war to our nation.

 

[Bastables]

Even the poorer population forced into the Confederate army through conscription?

I'm all for tearing down the monuments (which weren't erected in good faith in the first place) for the record. I'm just not seeing what makes every individual soldier a "horrible piece of shit". It's like condemning every foot soldier in the Nazi army

Yeah, you can desert or surrender, try and pull a contentious objection.

plus you know.

Although only 20 percent of the soldiers avowed explicit proslavery purposes in their letters and diaries, none at all dissented from that view.

— James M. McPherson, For Cause and Comrades: Why Men Fought in the Civil War (1997), p. 110, emphasis in original

Fuck Nazi's and confederate foot soldiers too.

Read the T Snyder's Black Earth/BLood lands books, in which a German soldiers letter is recounted where the writer talks of throwing babies into pits and shooting them as they fly across. Fuck the foot soldiers too and the post war attempts to disassociate themselves from the regime's they fought for.

 

[the210]

Yesterday a couple of posters tried to remind people that the actions to remove the statues might bring legal jeopardy and they were ridiculed. Today we see legal actions are being brought that could potentially ruin lives. If people are brave enough to continue to do these deeds god bless them. Just don't do them without considering the consequences. The government has no choice but to file charges in this case if they ever want to file them in case of the Klan/ Nazi's doing the same thing. Hopefully we will get a good dose of jury nullification in for the good folks who took this statue down.

 

[captive]

amazing, they have managed to already arrest her yet not a single person has been arrested that assaulted Deandre Harris.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Then the first step is to repeal that law.

If public opinion swings in the favor of those that make sense, the constituents may want it.

If the constituents want it, there's a chance.

Oh ok.

We'll just get all those red state Republicans who passed this literally to stop it from being done legally on board... easy peasy.

 

[Slayven]

amazing, they have managed to already arrest her yet not a single person has been arrested that assaulted Deandre Harris.

Working as designed

 

[excelsiorlef]

I'm not one to expect mass suicides.

Nor am I asking for a statue of these people.

I'm saying, hey, maybe a plaque, like, "hey guys remember, not everyone who fought even wanted that shit, let's use that as a point to say hey you know war is bad".



Did you even read my posts?

We don't need a #NotAllConfederates Plaque

 

[F34R]

If they really are going to be going after people involved, I hope people start tearing down all of these statues.

Are you able to help?

The state Republicans aka Nazi sympathizers passed laws to not ever allow the status to be removed. There are no legal means to remove them.

There are always legal means... is it against the law to protest, to vote people out of office letting them know why, etc.?

 

[excelsiorlef]

That SS accountant spent 20 years fighting deniers, while being perfectly aware he would be indicted once his name reached the prosecutors. Plus nobody intends to make him a statue.

He wrote a few letters.

He was not actually some activist

 

[Slayven]

This and other threads have shown me taste of what it must have been like for Rosa parks, and Nelson Mandela.

"They were breaking the law"

 

[The Cowboy]

For every person they arrest others should pull down 2 more.

 

[Astral/H3X]

Although only 20 percent of the soldiers avowed explicit proslavery purposes in their letters and diaries, none at all dissented from that view.

— James M. McPherson, For Cause and Comrades: Why Men Fought in the Civil War (1997), p. 110, emphasis in original

And that's all I needed. This statement makes it clear that no one who served was actively against slavery.

That's... that's literally it. If no one there was against slavery then there's no one to make a plaque for, yeah?

Sorry for thinking there might have been some not shitty people getting dragged into shit. I'm not a fucking nazi okay?

It's one thing to go "but they could have dodged! Or moved! Or dissented!" but that was heavily at odds with, as I mentioned, I learned about people being forced to fight on opposite sides of their family. Again, who knows, maybe that was fairy tale bullshit.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Are you able to help?

There are always legal means... is it against the law to protest, to vote people out of office letting them know why, etc.?

Your solution is literally wait till all the Red states go Blue or purple if they're lucky enough to get anti Confederate Republicans.

States are passing laws to force municipalities to keep them standing.

It's tyranny of the majority.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

"Not for slavery, just fights for slavery."

We should honor such bravery with a plaque!

 

[Nekofrog]

Oh ok.

We'll just get all those red state Republicans who passed this literally to stop it from being done legally on board... easy peasy.

It's almost like they don't even read what they write

 

[Nikodemos]

He wrote a few letters.

He was not actually some activist

And nobody considers him one.

Yet people think Confederate conscripts deserve memorials? When most of them either didn't care or were for slavery?

 

[Astral/H3X]

And nobody considers him one.

Yet people think Confederate conscripts deserve memorials? When most of them either didn't care or were for it?

Hey guess what I saw where there weren't any objectors fighting for them.

 

[Oersted]

I didn't say they should be honored, but it's important to differentiate between the actual racists, and those who's friends all joined up so they did too, or those who literally had to join up because they got drafted and it was either join or be thrown in jail/executed.


Sure, all I'm saying is it's unfair to say that literally 100% of Confederates were racists. History is more complex than that.

Here is a statue for someone who "just killed jews", not "killed jews". He didn't actually mean it. Fiddlesticks.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

In response to the statue in Durham being torn down, Democratic North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper tweeted: "The racism and deadly violence in Charlottesville is unacceptable but there is a better way to remove these monuments."

He’s recommending you use dynamite next time, guys. No cops will be willing to stand around recording while you hurl sticks of dynamite.

 

[excelsiorlef]

And nobody considers him one.

Yet people think Confederate conscripts deserve memorials? When most of them either didn't care or were for slavery?

Sorry I thought you were defending that Nazi saying he had atoned or something.

We're all on the same page fuck thst Nazi and fuck Confederates.

 

[Nikodemos]

Hey guess what I saw where there weren't any objectors fighting for them.

Good.

 

[ag-my001]

Does the NC governor have the power to pardon/ commute this?

 

[Astral/H3X]

Here is a statue for someone who "just killed jews", not "killed jews". He didn't actually mean it. Fiddlesticks.

How about a memorial to German soldiers who were resisting Nazism.

This was the sort of thing I was thinking of. Not exactly the same, but similar idea.

 

[Nekofrog]

And that's all I needed. This statement makes it clear that no one who served was actively against slavery.

That's... that's literally it. If no one there was against slavery then there's no one to make a plaque for, yeah?

Sorry for thinking there might have been some not shitty people getting dragged into shit. I'm not a fucking nazi okay?

It's one thing to go "but they could have dodged! Or moved! Or dissented!" but that was heavily at odds with, as I mentioned, I learned about people being forced to fight on opposite sides of their family. Again, who knows, maybe that was fairy tale bullshit.

Not fairy tale bullshit, just more leeway given to white people than is ever given to black people in these situations. You bent over backwards to make up scenarios in which you could pat Confederates on the back. Too many people bend over backwards to excuse a lot of horrible shit white people do to black people and it's really tiresome to see.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Does the NC governor have the power to pardon/ commute this?

Sure but he won't

 

[Angelus Errare]

This and other threads have shown me taste of what it must have been like for Rosa parks, and Nelson Mandela.

"They were breaking the law"

But not all of them are pouring stuff on those people sitting down! Maybe they were like forced to be there or be alienated from their friends!

 

[Astral/H3X]

Not fairy tale bullshit, just more leeway given to white people than is ever given to black people in these situations. You bent over backwards to make up scenarios in which you could pat Confederates on the back. Too many people bend over backwards to excuse a lot of horrible shit white people do to black people and it's really tiresome to see.

Again, I hate the confederacy -- I just assumed that just I don't get to choose to not be in the military now that Trump's a thing, that there were decent people sucked into that shit hole.
But, as that entry attests, the shit hole was filled solely with shit.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I just assumed that just I don't get to choose to not be in the military now that Trump's a thing, that there were decent people sucked into that shit hole.

You absolutely have a choice. Unless you're a coward who wants to absolve yourself from responsibility.

 

[Astral/H3X]

You absolutely have a choice. Unless you're a coward who wants to absolve yourself from responsibility.

Trump is 4 years, my contract is 6. Cutting off my contract would have a very large negative impact on my life as well as my future. The military has opened a lot of doors for me.
I'm essentially hoping nothing actually happens, and that if it does, me being in the Guard manages to keep my ass out of the shitnado.

EDIT: THAT BEING SAID I will absolutely NOT take any action against another American.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Trump is 4 years, my contract is 6. Cutting off my contract would have a very large negative impact on my life as well as my future. The military has opened a lot of doors for me.

So where exactly is the not having a choice part?

 

[Frozenprince]

Black woman charged huh?

 

[Albino_Yeti]

Here is a statue for someone who "just killed jews", not "killed jews". He didn't actually mean it. Fiddlesticks.

Don't really see what you're getting at, since, for the fourth time now, (seriously do people even read past the post they're replying to?) I never said there should be a statue.

Black woman charged huh?

I'm curious if those white guys that were filmed kicking the statue when it was knocked over will be charged. Their entire faces were on camera, there's no way the cops couldn't easily ID them.

 

[F34R]

Your solution is literally wait till all the Red states go Blue or purple if they're lucky enough to get anti Confederate Republicans.

States are passing laws to force municipalities to keep them standing.

It's tyranny of the majority.

Well, you have choices to make, and you'll have to face whatever comes after that.

 

[BBboy20]

In response to the statue in Durham being torn down, Democratic North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper tweeted: "The racism and deadly violence in Charlottesville is unacceptable but there is a better way to remove these monuments."

...it's a traitorous symbol. It doesn't deserve the curtsy of disassembly.

 

[Lime]

Here's the webpage that allows for people to donate money to the bond fund of the ones affected by this bullshit: http://durhamsolidaritycenter.org/bondfund/

Not sure how legit it is, but the person sharing it is very trustworthy.

 

[Eusis]

...it's a traitorous symbol. It doesn't deserve the curtsy of disassembly.

Maybe it's a back handed statement to the legislature too. Or he's just being correct" as governor.

But fuck the state legislature for being the worst kinds of hypocrites with this shit.

 

[Frozenprince]

We are really about to try and argue able the moral veracity of individual confederate soldiers now huh?

 

[NoblesseOblige]

We are really about to try and argue able the moral veracity of individual confederate soldiers now huh?

It's apparently the 'sympathetic' thing to do.

 

[Nikodemos]

We are really about to try and argue able the moral veracity of individual confederate soldiers now huh?

Nah, s'ok. We've moved on now.

 

[TetraGenesis]

Fucking trash. (The Sheriff.)

 

[Frozenprince]

Sure is funny how ooooooooooonly the black woman catches a charge.

Hah.

Haha.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Guys, as slippery as Cooper can be, what he's trying to do here is make this a wedge issue because he's betting that this has become a winning political issue in N.C.

And as much as I love seeing shitty statues pulled the fuck down and the hypocrisy of the Lost Cause myth lighting a fire under the nation, I also enjoy seeing elected Republicans squirm and tug their collars over their public support for the Confederacy.

But yes, he should pardon/commute anyone who's convicted on "riot" charges. I'm hoping a judge of good conscience throws this out first, but forget it, Jake, it's Durham.

 

[Kitschkraft]

If the governor lets even one of these people go to jail, I hope that there is a movement amongst blacks not to vote for him again.

I don't care if a republican replaces him.

Fuck this shit.