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[m_shortpants]

Hamas trains kids as terrorists? No, Israel does when it blows up their parents and families and leaves them as orphans.

How else would ANYONE feel when your family members are killed for no reason?

 

[zer0blivion]

It's crazy how much the Israeli Government/IDF/Hasbara project themselves on Hamas. They're terrorists, they use human shields, they would wipe us out if they could, they want to form a theocracy. While actually, IDF/Gov't tactics are a textbook case of terrorism. There's documented cases of them using human shields and it sure seems like they're trying to wipe out Palestine. They clearly want a Jewish state. If you criticize it, you're either an antisemite or you support terrorism.

 

[m_shortpants]

It's crazy how much the Israeli Government/IDF/Hasbara project themselves on Hamas. They're terrorists, they use human shields, they would wipe us out if they could, they want to form a theocracy. While actually, IDF/Gov't tactics are a textbook case of terrorism. There's documented cases of them using human shields and it sure seems like they're trying to wipe out Palestine. They clearly want a Jewish state. If you criticize it, you're either an antisemite or you support terrorism.

Also, sprinkle a little Holocaust guilt in there.

 

[Dryk]

- IDF launches Protective Edge before there is any increase in rocket attacks.

The timeline is really murky on that. From what I gather from conflicting information the increase in rockets fall somewhere near the IDF launching airstrikes and massing at the border but before the ground invasion. I honestly don't know how the first three things fit together anymore but I thought that Hamas shot first when you take the Gaza situation as its own entity. I don't agree with that line of reasoning though, if Hamas shot "first" it was in response to the West Bank situation.

 

[thefit]

- Hamas splinter group kidnaps and murders 3 Israeli settlers in the West Bank
- IDF blame Hamas and commence actions against them on shakier ground than the Iraq War
- IDF arrest 400+ Palestinians looking for them and ransack their homes
- Gaza increases the rate of rockets in response
- It all spirals out of control from there

Lets just omit the countless Palestinians sniped/killed for throwing rocks or getting burnt alive. Israel has a powerful first world standing army and all they ever need is an excuse to release their load and are very happy and unapologetic doing so. Oh but Blame it on Hamas and not the oppressive starving and choking of the Palestinians through the embargo its gotten even more dire now that Egypt has closed the border and the new regime is no longer turning a cheek to the smuggling of goods and have cracked down on the only source of some having things that help in giving them some inkling of human decency.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

Nothing wrong with me. I feel bad for the innocent people that are in the crossfire, but you should really understand that Hamas, and any other terrorist organizations, are training kids from 5 year olds to become terrorists.

I prefer that no one kills each other, but that's not happening. Hamas are going to kill any Israelis, Israelis are going to kill Hamas with innocent Palestinians being the victims. Understand that it's never going to be possible for the Israeli side to distinguish terrorist.

And you can stop it with the images. Some people here prefer not to see that stuff while having a discussion.

Yeah, easier to spout your vile, heartless propaganda soundbites when you don't have to see the reality of the situation.

 

[TheStruggler]

It's crazy how much the Israeli Government/IDF/Hasbara project themselves on Hamas. They're terrorists, they use human shields, they would wipe us out if they could, they want to form a theocracy. While actually, IDF/Gov't tactics are a textbook case of terrorism. There's documented cases of them using human shields and it sure seems like they're trying to wipe out Palestine. They clearly want a Jewish state. If you criticize it, you're either an antisemite or you support terrorism.

I also agree the thing is ever since 9/11 the word terrorist has been thrown around so much. I was the freshment in junior high I believed the whole them vs us speech bush gave and im not even American, i was young i was stupid however, if you can go into a place set up blockades that keep people in an area, oppress a group of people, kill innocent civilians which should be a war crime etc, when you look at the word terrorist with thise examples who do you think it really should be applied to?

EDIT

@m_shortpants

thats also what im sick and tired of, I will be the first to admit the holocaust was freaking horrible never should have happened people should have intervened however you don't get a free fucking pass to do whatever you want and play the victim card. This is almost the same thing (not exactly 100%) but they are literally wiping out a culture of people and much like the holocaust no one is doing jack about it

 

[Shining Sunshine]

How? What does bombing a hospital or refugee camp do to stop Hamas?

Why do you think the actions of a few men make children a valid target? That's some evil logic.

No, I don't agree with the way Israeli mark their targets at all.
I am just saying that Hamas has been training children to be terrorists.

The IDF are treating all of them as targets for this reason.

In the end, both Hamas and the IDF are killing innocent people, not just the IDF.

Yeah, easier to spout your vile, heartless propaganda soundbites when you don't have to see the reality of the situation.

What propaganda? That Hamas are also wrong? All killing and war is bad.

 

[TrojanBlade]

What the fuck, those tweets

U.S., European nations plan to impose new sanctions on Russia

And meanwhile the Israeli murderers keep getting a free pass for killing 1000s...


Man WTF everything...

 

[Dryk]

Lets just omit the countless Palestinians sniped/killed for throwing rocks or getting burnt alive. Israel has a powerful first world standing army and all they ever need is an excuse to release their load and are very happy and unapologetic doing so. Oh but Blame it on Hamas and not the oppressive starving and choking of the Palestinians through the embargo its gotten even more dire now that Egypt has closed the border and the new regime is no longer turning a cheek to the smuggling of goods and have cracked down on the only source of some having things that help in giving them some inkling of human decency.

Look at my post history, the IDF and the Israeli government are literally at the bottom of my list of people I have sympathy for here

 

[thefit]

Yeah, easier to spout your vile, heartless propaganda soundbites when you don't have to see the reality of the situation.

Exactly, please don't put a human face to this and lets focus on the poor dogs scared of the bomb noises. Because dogs.

 

[Devolution]

No, I don't agree with the way Israeli mark their targets at all.
I am just saying that Hamas has been training children to be terrorists.

The IDF are treating all of them as targets for this reason.

In the end, both Hamas and the IDF are killing innocent people, not just the IDF.

Pretty sure Hamas can shore up its numbers because Israel is starving people, bulldozing homes and massacring Palestinians left and right. But sure Hamas recruits children is the real problem.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Before all this happened:

-Hamas digs loads of tunnels across the border into Israel.

- Hamas splinter group kidnaps and murders 3 Israeli settlers in the West Bank
- IDF blame Hamas and commence actions against them on shakier ground than the Iraq War
- IDF arrest 400+ Palestinians looking for them and ransack their homes
- Gaza increases the rate of rockets in response
- It all spirals out of control from there

 

[Aaron]

The timeline is really murky on that. From what I gather from conflicting information the increase in rockets fall somewhere near the IDF launching airstrikes and massing at the border but before the ground invasion. I honestly don't know how the first three things fit together anymore but I thought that Hamas shot first when you take the Gaza situation as its own entity. I don't agree with that line of reasoning though, if Hamas shot "first" it was in response to the West Bank situation.

Well, they didn't shoot first. As I said, the IDF murdered a man and a teenager from Gaza before the current conflict. Then there was the round of unlawful imprisonment. Both literally and figuratively, the IDF shot first.

No, I don't agree with the way Israeli mark their targets at all.
I am just saying that Hamas has been training children to be terrorists.

The IDF has compulsory military service that involves dropping bombs on civilians. I think they're terrorist training is a little more effective.

 

[m_shortpants]

Before all this happened:

-Hamas digs loads of tunnels across the border into Israel.

Before all of this happens (and Hamas didn't kidnap those teenagers by the way, that was a lie, confirmed)

-Palestinians are under blockade and siege for 60 years

 

[Dryk]

Before all this happened:

-Hamas digs loads of tunnels across the border into Israel.

Lets not go there, we'll be here until 1947

Well, they didn't shoot first. As I said, the IDF murdered a man and a teenager from Gaza before the current conflict. Then there was the round of unlawful imprisonment. Both literally and figuratively, the IDF shot first.

Thus the quotation marks, though I guess I should put the IDF murders into the timeline. Starting with the kidnappings is just my bias from how I became aware of the current situation talking.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Pretty sure Hamas can shore up its numbers because Israel is starving people, bulldozing homes and massacring Palestinians left and right. But sure Hamas recruits children is the real problem.

That's taking it out of context.
Terrorism is a problem, but not the only problem.

Responsibility is on both sides to stop fighting.

 

[Toxi]

No, I don't agree with the way Israeli mark their targets at all.
I am just saying that Hamas has been training children to be terrorists.

The IDF are treating all of them as targets for this reason.

In the end, both Hamas and the IDF are killing innocent people, not just the IDF.

I'm sorry, do you have any evidence of children acting as Hamas terrorists?

Because that's one hell of a terrible "reason" to target and murder children, you prick.

 

[Linkhero1]

I'm sorry, do you have any evidence of children acting as Hamas terrorists?

Because that's one hell of a terrible "reason" to target and murder children, you prick.

I would like to see a source to Hamas training 5 years olds as well.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

That's taking it out of context.
Terrorism is a problem, but not the only problem.

Responsibility is on both sides to stop fighting.

Playing moderate man are we...

 

[Aaron]

Thus the quotation marks

Why? It's a solid fact the IDF shot first no matter how you want to frame the situation. There's no reason to muddle the facts with quotation marks.

 

[zer0blivion]

I am just saying that Hamas has been training children to be terrorists.

In the end, both Hamas and the IDF are killing innocent people, not just the IDF.

I need evidence of the first point. To your second point, Hamas killed 3 civilians and IDF killed more than 1100.

 

[Devolution]

That's taking it out of context.
Terrorism is a problem, but not the only problem.

Responsibility is on both sides to stop fighting.

I'm sorry what.

The entire context of Hamas is Palestine has no real military and they're constantly discriminated against, threatened, starved, stripped of home/land and even killed by Israel.

It's YOU who is divorcing Hamas from the context of Israel being a fascist bully that keeps Palestinians under its thumb. A reactionary group doesn't spring forth from thin fucking air.

 

[Upsidedown Fuji]

I've got to take a break from twitter and ot for a while. Seeing the children dead and injured kills me as a recent father.

 

[FyreWulff]

That's taking it out of context.
Terrorism is a problem, but not the only problem.

Responsibility is on both sides to stop fighting.

When your home is illegally taken by right wing settlers, I dunno, maybe it's real easy to perceive someone as an invader to fight against than going "lol, just take my entire livelihood"

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

What propaganda? That Hamas are also wrong? All killing and war is bad.

"I'm not justifying Israel's actions..."

*Proceeds to try and justify Israel's actions while also deflecting the issue with classic whataboutery*

You're some piece of work.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

UN OCHA latest:
75% of Palestinian fatalities are civilians;
6% of Israeli fatalities are civilians.
http://bit.ly/1kjXvpT

These statistics seem to indicate that that Hamas cares more about civilians than the IDF.

From what I've read, it seems neither side cares about civilians. Hamas would target civilians if their rockets weren't shit. And in lobbing these shitting rockets into Israel, they know they're putting their citizenry in danger. And further, are they not using civilians as human shields to try to get public opinion on their side? Seems to be working judging by the pictures being posted here now. And we already know Israel's responses are largely disproportionate and lacking any real precision, taking out schools, hospitals, homes and running an apartheid state.

Remind me: who actually gives a hot fuck about the civilians? Certainly none of these actors.

 

[Aaron]

From what I've read, it seems neither side cares about civilians. Hamas would target civilians if their rockets weren't shit. And further, are they not using civilians as human shields to try to get public opinion on their side? Seems to be working judging by the pictures being posted here now. And we already know Israel's responses are largely disproportionate and lacking any real precision, taking out schools, hospitals, homes and running an apartheid state.

Remind me: who actually gives a hot fuck about the civilians? Certainly none of these actors.

HAMA ARE NOT USING HUMAN SHIELDS. The UN has examined the issue for years, and can find no evidence of it. There's plenty of evidence of the IDF doing it with Palestinians, often children, but somehow no one calls them out on it.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

I'm sorry, do you have any evidence of children acting as Hamas terrorists?

Because that's one hell of a terrible "reason" to target and murder children, you prick.

Here's a quick link to an article:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=79948&page=1

Hamas did say they're going to moderate youth actions in this line:

The statement, signed by Ismail Hanyea, spokesman for Hamas spiritual leader Sheik Ahmed Yassin, said, "We have called on the teachers and religious leaders to spread the message of restraint among young boys."

There is also a video shown by the Israeli, but recorded by an Arab news. The video contained footage of children training camps.

Not really the best link as it's a link straight to a video from a Wiki, but it's all there is, and the video is legit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-311

I'm sorry what.

The entire context of Hamas is Palestine has no real military and they're constantly discriminated against, threatened, starved, stripped of home/land and even killed by Israel.

It's YOU who is divorcing Hamas from the context of Israel being a fascist bully that keeps Palestinians under its thumb. A reactionary group doesn't spring forth from thin fucking air.

Okay, so are you supporting the Hamas? Half the world has deemed them terrorists.

I already stated IDF are doing wrong in this situation, but I feel like Hamas are also to blame.

 

[Dopus]

That's taking it out of context.
Terrorism is a problem, but not the only problem.

Responsibility is on both sides to stop fighting.

Your posts are incredibly naive. That is the context. The only reason Hamas got elected was precisely because of those reasons amongst many others. Of course, the responsibility lies with both sides to stop fighting, but Israel is the aggressor in this situation and that's not even debatable. They're not even willing to compromise, not are they willing to make any realistic progress on the issues at hand.The horrid treatment and abuse of the Palestinians for generations upon generations has only resulted in more pain and more frustration. Hamas are the direct result of Israeli policy whether you choose or admit it or not, I'm not justifying any of their actions I am stating a fact. Call them terrorists, call them whatever you want, but whatever standard you hold them to please apply it to the rogue state of Israel too.

 

[Devolution]

Okay, so are you supporting the Hamas? Half the world has deemed them terrorists.

I already stated IDF are doing wrong in this situation, but I feel like Hamas are also to blame.

This is the shit I can't stand. Talk about the roots of Hamas and suddenly you're an ardent supporter. Israel sure has great propaganda teams.

 

[Yazan]

Before all this happened:

-Hamas digs loads of tunnels across the border into Israel.

That wasn't the official reason to start the 'war'. It was the rockets and the tunnels into Egypt.

 

[zer0blivion]

From what I've read, it seems neither side cares about civilians. Hamas would target civilians if their rockets weren't shit. And in lobbing these shitting rockets into Israel, they know they're putting their citizenry in danger. And further, are they not using civilians as human shields to try to get public opinion on their side? Seems to be working judging by the pictures being posted here now. And we already know Israel's responses are largely disproportionate and lacking any real precision, taking out schools, hospitals, homes and running an apartheid state.

Remind me: who actually gives a hot fuck about the civilians? Certainly none of these actors.

I'm sure if Hamas had half the military Israel did, they would be targeting military targets only. Unless you can provide evidence, I reject your claim that Hamas uses human shields, and there is evidence of Israeli soldiers actually using human shields.

Who gives a fuck about the civilians? I do, and human rights groups do, the zionists don't.

 

[toastyToast]

Indefensible

I await the IDF admitting they were responsible and it getting no press

 

[Samarqand]

removed.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

HAMA ARE NOT USING HUMAN SHIELDS. The UN has examined the issue for years, and can find no evidence of it. There's plenty of evidence of the IDF doing it with Palestinians, often children, but somehow no one calls them out on it.

Oh i see. The rest of the point stands. Every time they do this rocket-lobbing shit, Israel comes back and bites the shit out of them, and it's the civilians who suffer the most. If their primary concern was for civilians, then provoking a nation that's proven over and over again a willingness to disproportionately blow shit up may not be a good fucking plan.

And Israel doesn't give a shit about anyone but its own citizenry...but guess what? It really doesn't have to. They'll continue to run their oppressive apartheid state and shit like these rocket attacks continues to provide a distraction from that issue and an excuse for them fighting and laying down all of these draconian laws and policies.

 

[Dopus]

This is the shit I can't stand. Talk about the roots of Hamas and suddenly you're an ardent supporter. Israel sure has great propaganda teams.

As soon as you criticise Israeli policy and the IDF you're labelled as pro-Hamas. Such nonsense.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Your posts are incredibly naive. That is the context. The only reason Hamas got elected was precisely because of those reasons amongst many others. Of course, the responsibility lies with both sides to stop fighting, but Israel is the aggressor in this situation and that's not even debatable. They're not even willing to compromise, not are they willing to make any realistic progress on the issues at hand.The horrid treatment and abuse of the Palestinians for generations upon generations has only resulted in more pain and more frustration. Hamas are the direct result of Israeli policy whether you choose or admit it or not, I'm not justifying any of their actions I am stating a fact. Call them terrorists, call them whatever you want, but whatever standard you hold them to please apply it to the rogue state of Israel too.

Palestine's situation is a result of a massive screw up post WW2 after Hitler's genocide.
A bunch of countries gave Israel a piece of land that really wasn't theirs anymore, so if anyone is to blame, it's the UN.

I agree that the IDF are getting to the point where we can semantically call it terrorism, but I'm still not letting Hamas off the hook for their actions whether you deem it minor compared to what the IDF are doing.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

This whole thing is fucking disgusting. :/

 

[Toxi]

Here's a quick link to an article:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=79948&page=1

Hamas did say they're going to moderate youth actions in this line:

Read the fucking article.

Hamas has claimed responsibility for many of the dozens of suicide bombing attacks carried out in Israel, the West Bank and Gaza Strip during nearly 19 months of Palestinian-Israeli violence. Most of the bombers were men in their early 20s.

The statement, signed by Ismail Hanyea, spokesman for Hamas spiritual leader Sheik Ahmed Yassin, said, "We have called on the teachers and religious leaders to spread the message of restraint among young boys."

Hamas described the actions of the schoolboys as a "national catastrophe."

...

The suicide notes gave no inkling that any of the boys was affiliated to any militant Palestinian group.

There is also a video shown by the Israeli, but recorded by an Arab news. The video contained footage of children training camps.

Not really the best link as it's a link straight to a video from a Wiki, but it's all there is, and the video is legit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#cite_note-311

The video is having trouble loading on my computer. That said, I trust the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs as far as I can throw them after this shit show.

Either way, none of this makes children a valid target. None of it. None of this justifies hospitals or refugee camps as valid target. The idea that "Hamas made all Palestinians targets" is just washing Israel's hands of blood.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Oh i see. The rest of the point stands. Every time they do this rocket-lobbing shit, Israel comes back and bites the shit out of them, and it's the civilians who suffer the most. If their primary concern was for civilians, then provoking a nation that's proven over and over again a willingness to disproportionately blow shit up may not be a good fucking plan.

And Israel doesn't give a shit about anyone but its own citizenry...but guess what? It really doesn't have to. They'll continue to run their oppressive apartheid state and shit like these rocket attacks continues to provide a distraction from that issue and an excuse for them fighting and laying down all of these draconian laws and policies.

Check the top of the page, Hamas didn't do anything to provoke this operation. There is only one aggressor here, it's the IDF.

 

[benjipwns]

This whole thing is fucking disgusting. :/

Good thing you're prepared:

 

[Slayer-33]

This whole thing is fucking disgusting. :/

The Palestenian people have been getting ABUSED to hell and back for a long time... Nobody seems to help them except you know who...

This is so fucked up

 

[smokeandmirrors]

The Palestenian people have been getting ABUSED to hell and back for a long time... Nobody seems to help them except you know who...

This is so fucked up

And at this rate there's going to be little left in gaza but I bet that's the whole plan.

 

[Slayer-33]

And at this rate there's going to be little left in gaza but I bet that's the whole plan.

It's sickening TBH, this shit MUST be the plan. Where the hell are the Palestinians going to go? What the FUCK is wrong with the world for not standing up for these people?

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Read the fucking article.

The video is having trouble loading on my computer. That said, I trust the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs as far as I can throw them after this shit show.

Either way, none of this makes children a valid target. None of it. None of this justifies hospitals or refugee camps as valid target. The idea that "Hamas made Palestinians targets" is just washing Israel's hands of blood.

First off, of course it doesn't justify marking children as targets, but tell that to the IDF.
Hamas are training civilians and children, and IDF are out to kill everyone. It's all wrong. I'm not sure why you guys think I'm supporting the Israeli. I think they're all wrong.

And about the article, of course Hamas will not admit training kids as part of their group. Child militants isn't something that's not happening. It's happening in Hamas, a lot of Arab countries, the kurds, in Russia.

It's a situation the world shouldn't deny and needs to solve it (as another gaffer posted while arguing against me) through education.

 

[zer0blivion]

Palestine's situation is a result of a massive screw up post WW2 after Hitler's genocide.
A bunch of countries gave Israel a piece of land that really wasn't theirs anymore, so if anyone is to blame, it's the UN.

I agree that the IDF are getting to the point where we can semantically call it terrorism, but I'm still not letting Hamas off the hook for their actions whether you deem it minor compared to what the IDF are doing.

I'm resisting commenting on your first sentence because I won't let emotions get the best of me. Of course you blame the UN, they're the ones trying to stop human rights violations while you are content to if not defend them, try to excuse them.

What is this egregious action that you can't let Hamas off the hook for, given that you just admitted IDF are terrorists? I'm guessing it's because they're Arabs.

 

[benjipwns]

It's sickening TBH, this shit MUST be the plan. Where the hell are the Palestinians going to go? What the FUCK is wrong with the world for not standing up for these people?

What is "the world" supposed to do? And does it apply to every injustice?

 

[TheStruggler]

Palestine's situation is a result of a massive screw up post WW2 after Hitler's genocide.
A bunch of countries gave Israel a piece of land that really wasn't theirs anymore, so if anyone is to blame, it's the UN.

I agree that the IDF are getting to the point where we can semantically call it terrorism, but I'm still not letting Hamas off the hook for their actions whether you deem it minor compared to what the IDF are doing.

Cant you also blame Israel for wanting more and having holy wars with Palestine over land and then oppressing their people putting up blockades, counting food calories and putting them on a "diet"

 

[Toxi]

First off, of course it doesn't justify marking children as targets, but tell that to the IDF.
Hamas are training children and IDF are out to kill everyone. It's all wrong. I'm not sure why you guys think I'm supporting the Israeli. I think they're all wrong.

Because your shitty comments are saying things like "Israel has a reason to target all Palestinians" in response to a hospital and a refugee camp getting attacked. I don't think you understand just how serious it is to target civilian centers in a war and then lie about it afterwards like a child.

And about the article, of course Hamas will not admit training kids as part of their group. Child militants isn't something that's not happening. It's happening in Hamas, a lot of Arab countries, the kurds, in Russia.

It's a situation the world shouldn't deny and needs to solve it (as another gaffer posted while arguing against me) through education.

Holy shit, do you think all violent Palestinians are part of Hamas? You just linked to an article where there was zero connection between the kids and Hamas and then you said "Well of course Hamas would lie about it." That's not how evidence works.