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[Watashiwa]

Spoiler

Chaos-Light to me would mean free will for everyone and the strong rule, but NOT killing the weak.

Heh, and you know what happens there? People fight to claim the position of the strongest until someone holds the position for so long that mounting a challenge becomes unthinkable. Over time that person's rule solidifies until you're right back at lawful with someone agitating for revolution.

Chaos and law are exactly the same over time, the only difference is how long you've held on.

 

[-Horizon-]

Met Tayama and am now on the quest to

Spoiler

find Yuriko of the Ring of Gaea

Currently at LV 40

 

[t26]

Final area in Neutral path! Wonder if I should go for Red Rider but the odds just suck.

 

[coopolon]

Finally beat it. Got law ending at level 83 and 65 hours.

I didn't love the game. My biggest complaint is that there is nothing I hate more in games than wandering around not knowing where to go, and that happened a lot in this game. This was due to a combination of terrible overworld map with no labels, foreign names I am not familiar with (please note I'm not asking they change them, it just made it more difficult for me), terrible overworld design (so many silly deadends, rocks blocking paths, etc.).

The story as fine. The actual characters were mostly boring and you knew exactly where every character was going from the get go (I guess this is just typical SMT, they are the law and chaos companions for a reason.) The actual voice acting and dialogue were great though, I really enjoyed them.

There are way too many sidequests in the game for my taste. I eventually got tired of "go kill x at y" and just skipped the rest, which is a shame because I know there are some good unique ones, I was just so burned out by the trash ones by the middle of the game I ignored the rest.

The improvements they made to usability are amazing. The filters, searches, etc. in fusing is awesome. I do wish you could still easily say, "what will I get if I fuse x with y". Now you have to search "x" and check every possibility until you get to y. Unless I missed something. Still though, super good job on the fusion system. It was a blast seeing what I could make.

There sure are a lot of demons. I hated some of the new designs, like the angels especially. Yuck. Variety is great though, but I quickly realized the vast majority of damage was going to come from the mc, so that meant the demons were good for healing, buffs/debuffs, and exploiting weaknesses. And in that role, physical demons are worthless. Which is a shame because there are a lot of physical demons.

The difficulty curve is really bizarre to me. The first 5-10 hours of the game are SOOO much harder than the rest. By about a quarter of the way in its a cakewalk and it never got any more difficult for the rest of the game. I was probably consistently overleveled due to getting lost so much, so that might have hurt the difficulty curve for me. I appreciate the save anywhere, but I also feel like they decided "oh, we can make instant kills way more common now since the player can save anywhere" which I did not appreciate. I haven't played a ton of traditional smt, but I sure had WAY more instant kills (not just hama/mudo but also blight, etc.) in the first 10 hours of this game than I did in the first 10 hours of Strange Journey and Nocturne combined.

The music is good and the detail of the world is amazing. So many great little details added throughout the world, its a real pleasure to explore all the dungeons/cities/etc. - at least for the first 4 or 5 times. On the 10th time going through because I am lost I probably didn't appreciate it as much.

So, in conclusion, I liked the game, but I had some major problems with it as well. I think this will be one of the first games I sell in years though, without the characters or story to interest me I'm not sure I really have any desire to go back. Fusion is great, but it alone isn't enough.

 

[fates]

Ugh, looks like I'm locked to Law. I wanted to go Neutral.

Spoiler

Both options after King Kenji take me to Jonathan

I went back to an earlier save and went to the Grand Finals and decided to kill all of the enemy combatants after the fight. I'm guessing everything I did was so far Law that even

Spoiler

going with Walter and Lilith and picking the Chaos option for the White question

didn't offset it.

Any other ways to shift more away from Law before

Spoiler

going to the Tokyo wasteland, or even during that?

 

[Incendiary]

So I'm just past the Yamato Reactor and got to the new area after that....I gotta say, the new area's battle music rocks. Every time I think the music in this game can't get any better, it does!

P.S. I'm at level 53 right now and I'm wondering if I have the weirdest stat set-up ever:

St: 41
Dx: 105
Ma: 88
Ag: 76
Lu: 98

Haven't really been having any trouble, although I do have a quest about mid/late-game Almighty Spells, and I guess I'll ask in spoiler just in case:

Spoiler

Right now my MC has both Judgement and Megidola as spells in his repertoire. Is that unnecessary? I got Judgement earlier than Megidola because of a skill mutation, but the wording on the spell description makes me wonder if it's better than Megidola/Megidolaon in the end?

 

[jello44]

Ugh, looks like I'm locked to Law. I wanted to go Neutral.

Spoiler

Both options after King Kenji take me to Jonathan

I went back to an earlier save and went to the Grand Finals and decided to kill all of the enemy combatants after the fight. I'm guessing everything I did was so far Law that even

Spoiler

going with Walter and Lilith and picking the Chaos option for the White question

didn't offset it.

Any other ways to shift more away from Law before

Spoiler

going to the Tokyo wasteland, or even during that?

Spoiler

There is a suicidal woman in Ikebukero, have you talked to her? If not, tell her you're a demon, that should give you a big chaos boost

 

[fates]

Alright thanks, I'll give that shot!

EDIT: Ah hell, looks like I did that already. Still, thanks.

 

[Elaugaufein]

The alignment spells like Judgment are the best almighty Damagers on the alignment they target providing you have good Magic since stat damage gets multiplied too (the final dlc bosses almighty + counts as weakness is arguably better since it only uses half a press turn and does more than half the damage but for the same reason its harder to Concentrate/Spiritual Focus it)).

On other alignments they are Medigo equivalent.

 

[SteeloDMZ]

I have the two first major bosses in my party.

#balling

However, it breaks my spirit that I still can't beat the tourney preliminaries for fucks sake! Lol

 

[vesp]

Really wish the world map didn't suck so bad. Really like everything else but I find myself taking a break every time I have to navigate it very far because it's so ugly/confusing. Never had this problem before with the somewhat similar maps in other SMT/Persona games, but this one is really bad.

 

[Watashiwa]

Really wish the world map didn't suck so bad. Really like everything else but I find myself taking a break every time I have to navigate it very far because it's so ugly/confusing. Never had this problem before with the somewhat similar maps in other SMT/Persona games, but this one is really bad.

Try looking at a real world map of Tokyo. Since that's what the world map is, it makes navigating the game a lot easier if you're not familiar with where things are.

 

[duckroll]

Another Story DLC is out:

"Ancient One of the Sun"
An add-on exclusive Challenge Quest to defeat the Ancient of Days, a part of God. Completing this quest lets you fuse Godly Ancient of Days.

Against my better judgement I picked it up as well. Looks like I'm going to get all the Story DLC. #YOLO

This DLC takes place around end game and

Spoiler

involves The White sending you back into the Blasted Tokyo dimension to help Akira and Kiyoharu protect the world they want to create by defeating the Ancient of Days, a part of God sent to finish off the remains of humanity in that dimension to start afresh with a new humanity.

 

[t26]

So I'm just past the Yamato Reactor and got to the new area after that....I gotta say, the new area's battle music rocks. Every time I think the music in this game can't get any better, it does!

P.S. I'm at level 53 right now and I'm wondering if I have the weirdest stat set-up ever:

St: 41
Dx: 105
Ma: 88
Ag: 76
Lu: 98

Haven't really been having any trouble, although I do have a quest about mid/late-game Almighty Spells, and I guess I'll ask in spoiler just in case:

Spoiler

Right now my MC has both Judgement and Megidola as spells in his repertoire. Is that unnecessary? I got Judgement earlier than Megidola because of a skill mutation, but the wording on the spell description makes me wonder if it's better than Megidola/Megidolaon in the end?

Megidolaon does more damage.

 

[GeekyDad]

Another Story DLC is out:

"Ancient One of the Sun"
An add-on exclusive Challenge Quest to defeat the Ancient of Days, a part of God. Completing this quest lets you fuse Godly Ancient of Days.

Against my better judgement I picked it up as well. Looks like I'm going to get all the Story DLC. #YOLO

This DLC takes place around end game and

Spoiler

involves The White sending you back into the Blasted Tokyo dimension to help Akira and Kiyoharu protect the world they want to create by defeating the Ancient of Days, a part of God sent to finish off the remains of humanity in that dimension to start afresh with a new humanity.

How was the battle?

 

[Javier]

Finally started playing this last night and got all the way to the

Spoiler

"Rescue Navarre"

quest and beat it. I died a few times so I switched to the easier difficulty, as I felt the beginning was rather frustrating, with enemies OHKOing you and all. But I'm really enjoying the pacing of this.

I also like the main cast. Haven't hang around with them much yet, but Walter, Jonathan and Isabeau are all cool. Great team.

Main character (Javier) is at level 9. Hope StreetPass is unlocked soon.

 

[Trojita]

I have the two first major bosses in my party.

#balling

However, it breaks my spirit that I still can't beat the tourney preliminaries for fucks sake! Lol

lol I never got them. I didn't have the demons on hand and seemed to level up too fast for them to be useful.

 

[Seda]

Just beat the game, neutral path. ~60 hours. I did a ton of demon fusing/training though which inflated my time I'm sure.

I did just about every quest except for a couple that locked out right near the end. Overal I had a lot of fun with the game because the demon fusing and leveling is as addictive as ever, but I think Nocturne outclasses SMTIV in most other ways: Presentation, music, narrative (and how it is presented), etc. SMTIV is still one of my favorite games this year, however.

I probably wont bother with NG+ for a while. Too many other games I want to get to.

 

[twelver]

Is there a way to fuse demons without being the required level???

 

[Trojita]

Is there a way to fuse demons without being the required level???

There's an App for that

But seriously there is. You can pay app points for apps that let you fuse 1 level higher than you are.

 

[buddha0991]

There's an App for that

But seriously there is. You can pay app points for apps that let you fuse 1 level higher than you are.

That goes as high as 12 levels above you, I should know, I pumped many points into that one lol.

 

[semiconscious]

...

I didn't love the game. My biggest complaint is that there is nothing I hate more in games than wandering around not knowing where to go, and that happened a lot in this game. This was due to a combination of terrible overworld map with no labels, foreign names I am not familiar with (please note I'm not asking they change them, it just made it more difficult for me), terrible overworld design (so many silly deadends, rocks blocking paths, etc.)...

...

The difficulty curve is really bizarre to me. The first 5-10 hours of the game are SOOO much harder than the rest. By about a quarter of the way in its a cakewalk and it never got any more difficult for the rest of the game. I was probably consistently overleveled due to getting lost so much, so that might have hurt the difficulty curve for me. I appreciate the save anywhere, but I also feel like they decided "oh, we can make instant kills way more common now since the player can save anywhere" which I did not appreciate. I haven't played a ton of traditional smt, but I sure had WAY more instant kills (not just hama/mudo but also blight, etc.) in the first 10 hours of this game than I did in the first 10 hours of Strange Journey and Nocturne combined...

...

been working my way thru this at a surprisingly slow (as in, unenthusiastic) pace (currently lvl 24), & am in agreement with much of what you said (& particularly with the above). the game just isn't grabbing me the way a good smt game should (had the same problem with devil summoner 2, after really loving the first one). weirdly enuf, i was actually having more fun with strange journey at this point ...

the story's been decidedly uninteresting up till now, & the cast's been disappointingly dull/cliched. in many ways, smt iv almost seems to work better as a semi-sandbox rpg than it does a more traditional one, but, for me, that has as many minuses (lack of focus, meandering/uninspired storyline) as it does pluses (always somewhere to go, something to do)...

so i don't know. maybe it turns out that i'm playing the game the way it's meant to be played - just kinda wandering in'n'out, getting a little bit done here'n'there, & basking in the over-all ambiance (& there's definitely enough to bask in - graphically, & musically, the game's just fine). i'm not not having fun. but, like coopolon, i'm not loving the game. & i'd thought, & expected, that i would...


ps: afa the initial difficulty level, it's ended up feeling very bogus/forced to me. as tho it was done solely as a response/counter-balance to 'save anywhere'. it''s never really felt clever in any way, just unnecessarily brutal (&, eventually, very, very tiresome)...

 

[Elaugaufein]

Megidolaon does more damage.

This is wrong. Megidolan does more base damage even on a triggered opponent but damage from stats exceeds base damage from even the most powerful spells at under 100 Magic and dwarfs it quickly as you move beyond that and the bonus damage for a triggered alignment spell applies to the stat damage as well.

Anticthon (the most powerful magic almighty attack) has 133 + 1.5 * Mag damage , Sea of Chaos on a Lawful Opponent does (53 + 1.5 * Mag) * 1.5 which is 79.5 + 2.25 * Mag. That means Sea of Chaos is equal to Anticthon when 133 + 1.5 * M = 79.5 + 2.25 * M
which is a mere 71.3333 Magic.

I still don't really recommend Judgement/Damnation/Sea of Chaos though, at least not endgame. You either need to run all 3 , which is really inefficient since exploiting weaknesses is better when weaknesses are available , or you need to have a second Almighty move to cover the other 2 alignments (and until you're magic is sky high this is going to feel like a bit of a waste, even at 999 Magic you're only looking at 50% more damage).

I'm pretty sure the original intent was to cap stats at 200 (maybe allowing equipment boosts to go over that). Luck breaks down very quickly (every hit becomes a crit , instant death and status effects work flawlessly unless resisted etc) and base damage becomes largely irrelevant.

 

[Soulhouf]

There's an App for that

But seriously there is. You can pay app points for apps that let you fuse 1 level higher than you are.

It's not worth it. There are many other apps which are more important IMO.

 

[CSX]

Wow people actually watching my vids fighting against the

Spoiler

Fiends

?

*Feels strangely happy*

Anyways gonna buy the new DLC and play it this afternoon. Any impressions so far? It's just one hard boss correct?

 

[CSX]

It's not worth it. There are many other apps which are more important IMO.

It's very useful if you stick to it and you dont have any intention to grind alot.

By endgame , you be around in the mid-70s and with that app maxed out, you can fuse the strongest demons in the game which are in the 90's level

In some ways, that makes endgame easier than midgame and flips the last two pics of that Duckroll post about how you feel as you play through the game lol

 

[Elaugaufein]

Woops. Double Post.

 

[Elaugaufein]

been working my way thru this at a surprisingly slow (as in, unenthusiastic) pace (currently lvl 24), & am in agreement with much of what you said (& particularly with the above). the game just isn't grabbing me the way a good smt game should (had the same problem with devil summoner 2, after really loving the first one). weirdly enuf, i was actually having more fun with strange journey at this point ...

the story's been decidedly uninteresting up till now, & the cast's been disappointingly dull/cliched. in many ways, smt iv almost seems to work better as a semi-sandbox rpg than it does a more traditional one, but, for me, that has as many minuses (lack of focus, meandering/uninspired storyline) as it does pluses (always somewhere to go, something to do)...

so i don't know. maybe it turns out that i'm playing the game the way it's meant to be played - just kinda wandering in'n'out, getting a little bit done here'n'there, & basking in the over-all ambiance (& there's definitely enough to bask in - graphically, & musically, the game's just fine). i'm not not having fun. but, like coopolon, i'm not loving the game. & i'd thought, & expected, that i would...


ps: afa the initial difficulty level, it's ended up feeling very bogus/forced to me. as tho it was done solely as a response/counter-balance to 'save anywhere'. it''s never really felt clever in any way, just unnecessarily brutal (&, eventually, very, very tiresome)...

I think the Sandbox hurts it more because the world map is not well suited for an international audience. It assumes you're familiar with Tokyo (which is okay but it'd be nice if the Western release had included a map with the districts and significant landmarks on it). It'd also be nice if there was a highlighted map with the "real" paths on it, since there's so many inexplicable areas you can't walk on (and you can't watch the demon markers since they phase through borders). If you knew where you were going and you chose to not Sandbox things up I think you'd have a pretty coherent and decently paced story, though it would also be kind of short.

And yeah I agree that the lack of defense stat was not really well thought out, if you get ambushed by 2 Macabre and they both use Blight, you're going to be left in pretty bad shape even when you're twice the level you were when you first met them (but hey at least is not instantly fatal like it was then). The hunter tournaments are terrible too, enemies who automatically go first and start at full health, when you are also fighting an attrition war is cheap.

The weird thing is that its often not too bad even if you're ambushed there's just a handful of attacks that seem cheap. With elemental attacks at least if a weakness is exploited it was your mistake and Null/Repel/Drain demons are available early .The All-Hit physical attack moves are wacky, if the first demon in a group ambush uses one of them and gets a critical and smirk , you can basically say hello to Charon (and there's nothing you can do about it until Level 43 when you get a demon who can Null Phys). The All-hit Gun moves are also somewhat cheap but at least you can Null them starting at level 9, giving you an actual defense.

 

[coopolon]

(and you can't watch the demon markers since they phase through borders).

It took me awhile to realize demons can go through borders that you can't. I would see a demon move through an area, and then sit there trying to figure out how he did it.

 

[Trojita]

I don't know if I agree with saying to people that you shouldn't play this game if you are expecting a story. I actually really enjoy the world and world building this game provides. The game could have definitely been presented better, limitations possibly caused by the 3DS but most likely by budget and vision. At times seeing the limited amount of randomly placed cg person walking through a underground city is a little jarring.

 

[NeonZ]

it''s never really felt clever in any way, just unnecessarily brutal (&, eventually, very, very tiresome)...

I actually think exactly the opposite regarding that. The lack of defense make all battles fairly fast but tense (since a stupid mistake can end up leading to your death). I really prefer this way to the traditional way that the series has handled those stats. The only complaint I have regarding that is that they seemingly didn't put any thought into balancing the AI helpers with the smirk mechanic (they can trigger smirks on enemies, after all) and random surprise attacks (bosses that can randomly take initiative) - those factors are much more destructive due to the lack of defense.

 

[Sendou]

So where the hell is Ikebukuro? I'm so confuseeeed

 

[Trojita]

I'm not really a fan of how armor and even the weapon diversity is presented in the game. The lack of a defense stat and armor stat made armor kind of frivilous. So instead they had to add armor that affected weaknesses, gave varying stat bonuses, and a ridiculously low amount of hp. The white armor lasts for a while, I had the black demonica suit on for a while (I could have just stayed with the white armor though). I got some pants from a challenge quest that I've been rocking for like 10's of hours.

I'd rather have taken armor with a defense rating with some special armors having extra abilities over the system that the game provides.

 

[SteeloDMZ]

So where the hell is Ikebukuro? I'm so confuseeeed

You need to go to that big swamp poison area in Shinjuku and look for a subway entrance. That will take you to Ikebukuro.

 

[Elaugaufein]

So where the hell is Ikebukuro? I'm so confuseeeed

There's a tunnel on the world map you need to take, it's to the north of Shinjuku. In the first poison zone near where you first arrived in Shinjuku when you came from Ueon.

 

[Weiss]

Got the Neutral route! I was worried I missed some of the important quests. Got the Chaos path at first, rebooted, slaughtered Kenji again (he was such a pushover), and here I am.


... And now I've accidentally reloaded before the Kenji battle. fml

 

[Sendou]

You need to go to that big swamp poison area in Shinjuku and look for a subway entrance. That will take you to Ikebukuro.

There's a tunnel on the world map you need to take, it's to the north of Shinjuku. In the first poison zone near where you first arrived in Shinjuku when you came from Ueon.

Thanks

 

[coopolon]

I'm not really a fan of how armor and even the weapon diversity is presented in the game. The lack of a defense stat and armor stat made armor kind of frivilous. So instead they had to add armor that affected weaknesses, gave varying stat bonuses, and a ridiculously low amount of hp. The white armor lasts for a while, I had the black demonica suit on for a while (I could have just stayed with the white armor though). I got some pants from a challenge quest that I've been rocking for like 10's of hours.

I'd rather have taken armor with a defense rating with some special armors having extra abilities over the system that the game provides.

I wore the white armor the entire game. I can't even remember any bosses that hit bufu (I'm sure there were some but it obviously wasn't much of an issue), and whenever I would check stores for better stat items they were either worse or lots of macca for marginal increases.

I actually never spent any money in the entire game except for the occasional compendium purchase. I never bought a single thing from any of the stores. Although I did pay for the different cards.

 

[Pirabear]

Got neutral route!

And I'm glad others seem to share my frustration about the world map. I think I've been slightly over-leveled for most of the game due to getting lost/running into dead ends while demons jump me.

 

[BuckRobotron]

Finished first time on Neutral. Enjoyed the game quite a bit, an excellent new installment for SMT, though not ultimately my favorite of SMT(-related) properties. Somewhere in the middle. It does a lot right but doesn't excel in any one area. Not the sometimes dread challenge of Nocturne or Strange Journey. Not quite the fascinating world of DDS1&2 or secondarily Strange Journey (if only that could be redone with the quality voice-acting the other recent titles have). And the characters were of middling interest, as opposed to the memorable bunch of DD1S&2 or--obviously by their design--the latest Personas.

But these are all favorite games, making for tough competition. It is great to have such a quality new SMT available at hand on 3DS. Saved a "New Life Restart" file for when I return to the game later.

And a shout out to my surprise MVP demon, a Fenrir with...

Nihil Claw
Deadly Wind
Bloody Glee
Null Phys
Drain Gun
Draconic Reaction
High Phys Pieroma
Mana Surge

He still might have needed general support here and there, but he was consistently the one to deliver harsh damage AND generally survive battles through the endgame.

 

[Tripon]

So where the hell is Ikebukuro? I'm so confuseeeed

That's the one thing I hate about this game. The map is pretty much useless from walking to place to place, and its way to easy to get lost. Combine that with respawning enemies who always try to fight you despite being weak as shit, and its just really annoying trying to explore.

 

[SteeloDMZ]

Map exploring is awesome.

 

[t26]

This is wrong. Megidolan does more base damage even on a triggered opponent but damage from stats exceeds base damage from even the most powerful spells at under 100 Magic and dwarfs it quickly as you move beyond that and the bonus damage for a triggered alignment spell applies to the stat damage as well.

Anticthon (the most powerful magic almighty attack) has 133 + 1.5 * Mag damage , Sea of Chaos on a Lawful Opponent does (53 + 1.5 * Mag) * 1.5 which is 79.5 + 2.25 * Mag. That means Sea of Chaos is equal to Anticthon when 133 + 1.5 * M = 79.5 + 2.25 * M
which is a mere 71.3333 Magic.

I still don't really recommend Judgement/Damnation/Sea of Chaos though, at least not endgame. You either need to run all 3 , which is really inefficient since exploiting weaknesses is better when weaknesses are available , or you need to have a second Almighty move to cover the other 2 alignments (and until you're magic is sky high this is going to feel like a bit of a waste, even at 999 Magic you're only looking at 50% more damage).

I'm pretty sure the original intent was to cap stats at 200 (maybe allowing equipment boosts to go over that). Luck breaks down very quickly (every hit becomes a crit , instant death and status effects work flawlessly unless resisted etc) and base damage becomes largely irrelevant.

Huh? We were talking about Medidola/ Megidolaon better than Judgement.

 

[Ridley327]

You know that scene from The Dark Knight Rises, where Bruce keeps trying to jump the gap and keeps falling, in what should have surely permanently crippled him every time he did as such? That was the Matador experience for me.

It took a lot of money, it took a lot of time, it took a lot of patience, and it involved a lot of swearing, but goddamn it, I have a Capote Earring and a fusion ready to go for that magnificent son of a bitch.

 

[Soulhouf]

Finally! I had to wait for NG+ to fuse the best being ever.

A very powerful one on top of that:

Now I'm ready for the ultimate bosses. I hope they won't disappoint.

 

[Goby]

Map exploring is awesome.

Music adds a lot.

 

[jello44]

It's not worth it. There are many other apps which are more important IMO.

At start, yes, there are other apps that are far more useful, however at the end game when you have all of those already, it's great to pick up.

 

[SteeloDMZ]

Music adds a lot.

Dat roppongi theme is godlike.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Huh? We were talking about Medidola/ Megidolaon better than Judgement.

Holy Wrath / Judgement / Sea of Chaos are exactly the same apart from the alignment they trigger on (Chaos/Neutral/Law respectively). They do Medigo damage if not triggered and 1.5x the damage if triggered. Since the 1.5x damage is applied after stats they outdamage Anticthon (which itself outdamage Megidola/Megidoloan) when triggered at 72 magic.

Basically if triggered they are better than Megidola and Megidoloan , if you're making much investment in magic at all.

 

[Elaugaufein]

That's the one thing I hate about this game. The map is pretty much useless from walking to place to place, and its way to easy to get lost. Combine that with respawning enemies who always try to fight you despite being weak as shit, and its just really annoying trying to explore.

It's worth keeping an Estoma Sword flunky in stock for exploring the world map. It auto kills weak demons you contact on the World Map. Poismundi is another thing worth having a stock flunky for. There's just way to many forced encounters with Poison/Sick for the number of items you get and you never recover naturally.

It's actually something of a liability in dungeons, since enemies often group spawn and Estoma Swording an enemy doesn't reset the map unlike getting into battle , and no weapon has a fast enough recovery time to kill em all.