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Shin Megami Tensei IV |OT| The Dark Souls of Persona

C

Caladrius

Member
nicoga3000 said:
Ah - yeah, that's what it is. So fusing demons is suggested all the time, or should I wait until they've leveled up a bit?
Click to expand...

Wait until they learn all their skills. some demons (especially late game ones) learn great skills with leveling up.

You could, if you have the patience, fuse the demons off and then recruit another copy of them for level-up though.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
nicoga3000 said:
Ah - yeah, that's what it is. So fusing demons is suggested all the time, or should I wait until they've leveled up a bit?
Click to expand...

Level them up if they are a demon you like or you think you'll like the skills or want to see what they are. But yeah fuse as often as you can making new demons you haven't gotten before.
 
nicoga3000

nicoga3000

Saint Nic
Rad - thanks guys! I'll start pushing forward and building up my collection. Hopefully it all comes together and "clicks" soon in game!
 
S

Soulhouf

Member
duckroll said:
I think a far better design solution for Fiends would be to add an app upgrade for every ending the player has unlocked which makes it 1/4 more likely for Fiends to spawn. That way, for players who really want to find the Fiends, instead of being "lucky" they also have the option of just playing through the game again to get the other endings, and increasing their odds until the point where they've seen everything in the game, where the odds become 100%.

The most important thing to note about game design is that it should always be fun. If the game forces a player to do something which isn't fun, or the game makes it such that players feel completely left out simply because of "luck", then that's bad design. It wouldn't be a problem if we're talking about some silly palette-swap super hard versions of existing demons, but we're talking about classic SMT demons who loves of fans would want to fight and also fuse. What's even worse is that Chemtrail is one of the new original designs for the game, and they're locking it behind some stupid RNG. Really dumb.
Click to expand...

I understand very well.
You can argue that this is a poor design made to artificially increase the game's longevity and they ran out of time/ideas so they tossed a stupid RNG into the table.

But at the same time, I like when a game keeps 3% of its content only for good players and another 2% for lucky ones.
You have a game full of content and 95% of which is accessible to everyone. The rest is made for crazy people.
I don't agree that kind of content should be some crappy palette-swap or whatever because in that case nobody would care getting them.

Remember back in the 80s and 90s when the games' tips weren't easily accessible. In that time either you find a secret in a magazine or spread rumors in school.
We lost that because of internet and I think that many developers tried to find a way to keep some secrets difficult to access because of that.
=>()

Anyway, regarding SMTIV, I too love the fiends and won't be able to get any one of them because of this RNG. But I'm fine with that. The game already delivered for me and there are plenty of demons to fuse.
And I laugh at Chemtrail, the new fiend. I don't care since he was designed by one of the guest artists. It's sad, but I completely lost any interest in the new demons.
 
V

Vice

Member
Am I in the neutral ending
Killed the white and Isabeau met me in Tokyo. Walter and Johnathon are nowhere near
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Vice said:
Am I in the neutral ending
Killed the white and Isabeau met me in Tokyo. Walter and Johnathon are nowhere near
Click to expand...

Yes. You'll know if you are on the Neutral ending if you end up
in the Forest and Steven greets you.
 
Laughing Banana

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
ColossalLazy said:
In Camp Ichigaya. Defeated
Yamato Takeru. Does not pressing the button wield a different outcome?
Click to expand...

It changes your law/chaos alignment a bit.

Anyways, what a genius!

null.jpg
 
C

Caliginous

Neo Member
Just beat the neutral route after about 70 hours. Highly impressed by how engrossing a 3DS RPG of this quality could be. I wasn't expecting it to rival Nocturne at all.

Would love to do the other endings, but I'm going to move on to Mario & Luigi before the new Etrian Odyssey comes out.
 
R

randomkid

Member
Did I miss the portion of the thread where we all post our compendium time stats? Because I have spent 18 hours and 29 minutes in the Cathedral of Shadows and I am not finished with this game.
 
H

hosannainexcelsis

Member
Beat the Law Route. Great game with a great world, though I wish there had been some longer, more involved dungeons. Even the last dungeon was compact. I would say the Law ending feels a bit abrupt, but at the same time
once you make the choice to throw your lot in with it, there's nothing left to do but follow through. The hero not getting to live to see the world he saved was a bit of a nasty surprise.

I think I'll skip the Chaos ending and go for Neutral in the next run. Will aim for a fuller exploration of the sidequests, since I'll have to do several of them anyway.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
CSX said:
Just tried the final DLC for fun.

Guess I will be refusing a lot of demons sigh...
Click to expand...

I've done some back of the envelope math. Without Pierce a magical team pretty much can't beat Masakado, he reduces Almighty too much.

A physical team with Desperate Hit (via Fusion Light), Concentration , the ability to buff themselves and debuff Masakado in the first turn, and Salvation as well as some Great Charka/ Beads of Life, and Charge, as well as improbably good stats (Strength in the ~700 range and Luck around 500ish or lower (or a bit lower and having Bloody Glee)) should be able to win. Lower luck should be doable but you're much more at the mercy of the RNG, and since Desperate Hit already puts you at its mercy that's a very bad thing.

If you have the DLC stuff , a physical team with Stigmata Strike, Charge , Phys Pieroma, High Phys Pieroma, Dark Energy, Charge , and Debuff/Buff/Healing spread through the team should basically flatten Masakado (throw in a Uriel with the above setup and Kannuki Throw instead of Stigmata Strike for bonus points) , you probably want Flynn to have Archangel's Law too so that Masakado misses more often and loses turns, since he can't get pierce and Almighty is basically useless in comparison all he's really good for is Buffs, Healing and Conferring Smirks anyway..
 
D

duckroll

Member
This final DLC is worthy of being the "final DLC" challenge. I dunno if I should be happy or sad that it seems like it's designed specifically to require the other DLCs to do the fight well, but it's fun either way, so whatever. Thanks Nintendo for the free DLC! :p

Late edit:

Elaugaufein said:
If you have the DLC stuff , a physical team with Stigmata Strike, Charge , Phys Pieroma, High Phys Pieroma, Dark Energy, Charge , and Debuff/Buff/Healing spread through the team should basically flatten Masakado (throw in a Uriel with the above setup and Kannuki Throw instead of Stigmata Strike for bonus points) , you probably want Flynn to have Archangel's Law too so that Masakado misses more often and loses turns, since he can't get pierce and Almighty is basically useless in comparison all he's really good for is Buffs, Healing and Conferring Smirks anyway..
Click to expand...

This doesn't make much sense. Doesn't he absorb Phys? I don't think Stigmata Strike is a Pierce skill. Kannuki Throw definitely gets absorbed, unless somehow you use Sanat to down fuse a Phys Pierce on Uriel? It looks like he has drain on all elements (Phys/Gun/Fire/Ice/Elec/Wind) and is heavily resistant to Almighty. A total bitch to fight. Lol.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
duckroll said:
This final DLC is worthy of being the "final DLC" challenge. I dunno if I should be happy or sad that it seems like it's designed specifically to require the other DLCs to do the fight well, but it's fun either way, so whatever. Thanks Nintendo for the free DLC! :p

Late edit:



This doesn't make much sense. Doesn't he absorb Phys? I don't think Stigmata Strike is a Pierce skill. Kannuki Throw definitely gets absorbed, unless somehow you use Sanat to down fuse a Phys Pierce on Uriel? It looks like he has drain on all elements (Phys/Gun/Fire/Ice/Elec/Wind) and is heavily resistant to Almighty. A total bitch to fight. Lol.
Click to expand...

Brain-o. I've listed Charge twice. The first Charge is supposed to be Phys Pierce.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Elaugaufein said:
Brain-o. I've listed Charge twice. The first Charge is supposed to be Phys Pierce.
Click to expand...

Why use Charge when you have Dark Energy though? Hmmm.

Potentially good demon skill sets for the fight (in theory):

Demon(s) with high Str/Dex/Agi
1. Kannuki Throw
2. Phys Pierce
3. High Phys Plemora
4. Dark Energy
5. Luster Candy/Debilitate/Mediarahan
6. Life Gain/Life Surge
7. Draconic Reaction
8. Haste Lesson

Demon(s) with high Mag/Agi
1. Breath/Ragnarok
2. Ice Pierce/Fire Pierce
3. High Ice Plemora/High Fire Plemora
4. Spirit Focus
5. Luster Candy/Debilitate/Mediarahan
6. Life Gain/Life Surge
7. Draconic Reaction
8. Haste Lesson

How does that look?
 
S

Storm Chamber

Banned
So I picked this back up after a 2 week break due to Dragon's Crown among other things.

Got to Camp Ichigaya, went through the B3 door and oh my lord.....

I'm pretty sure I'm full blown Law route since I sided with Jonathan during the split between everyone earlier. So apparently Walter opened the Expanse gate, allowing more demons to invade Tokyo and apparently we're 25 years further into the future where Tokyo has gone from shit to COMPLETE shit. My jaw dropped once I learned I was in Shinjuku. I don't even want to know what's happened to Mikado....

And for some reason I'm banking on the crazy religious dude to be Navarre. I escorted him to Fujiwara during those Forest quests.
 
B

BuckRobotron

Member
Well, I got a second fiend to spawn--Matador--but have definitely had enough of the wasteful "find the fiend" business. Defeated him on fourth try after reassessing the team (and simply not suffering some unlucky hits). At least the ring he drops is impressively potent...for all the good that does me now that I'm moving on (prefer to do
New Life Restart
).
 
S

SpaceBridge

Member
Storm Chamber said:
So I picked this back up after a 2 week break due to Dragon's Crown among other things.

Got to Camp Ichigaya, went through the B3 door and oh my lord.....

I'm pretty sure I'm full blown Law route since I sided with Jonathan during the split between everyone earlier. So apparently Walter opened the Expanse gate, allowing more demons to invade Tokyo and apparently we're 25 years further into the future where Tokyo has gone from shit to COMPLETE shit. My jaw dropped once I learned I was in Shinjuku. I don't even want to know what's happened to Mikado....

And for some reason I'm banking on the crazy religious dude to be Navarre. I escorted him to Fujiwara during those Forest quests.
Click to expand...

You're not route locked yet.
 
S

Soulhouf

Member
duckroll said:
This final DLC is worthy of being the "final DLC" challenge. I dunno if I should be happy or sad that it seems like it's designed specifically to require the other DLCs to do the fight well, but it's fun either way, so whatever. Thanks Nintendo for the free DLC! :p
Click to expand...

Sounds like that final boss should have that kind of power.
Really poor design to encourage getting the DLCs instead of doing a satisfying ascension to fight an epic battle like they did in Nocturne Maniax.
 
G

gwarm01

Member
I ordered the basic version of this game from Amazon in order to take advantage of the $30 credit along with Fire Emblem, and they accidentally sent me the collector's edition. That's a lucky turn of events for me!

I'm still not going to play this until I beat Persona 4 Golden, but I was too excited about this unexpected bonus that I just had to share.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Soulhouf said:
Sounds like that final boss should have that kind of power.
Really poor design to encourage getting the DLCs instead of doing a satisfying ascension to fight an epic battle like they did in Nocturne Maniax.
Click to expand...

The design is fantastic though. Nothing poor about it at all. They introduced Pierce skills in the story DLCs to begin with, so it's actually nice to have a challenge designed specifically to take advantage of that, or they would be useless skills in the larger scheme of things.

I think in general the bite-sized DLC for SMT4 is a mistake though. They should really have designed a nice optional dungeon, made a more detailed story linking all the story DLC bosses and events, and selling the entire chunk for 15 bucks instead of what they did here.

I certainly feel that the story DLCs have been a satisfying ascension to fight an epic battle. All the DLC bosses before this are components which would help in this final battle.
 
S

Soulhouf

Member
duckroll said:
The design is fantastic though. Nothing poor about it at all. They introduced Pierce skills in the story DLCs to begin with, so it's actually nice to have a challenge designed specifically to take advantage of that, or they would be useless skills in the larger scheme of things.

I think in general the bite-sized DLC for SMT4 is a mistake though. They should really have designed a nice optional dungeon, made a more detailed story linking all the story DLC bosses and events, and selling the entire chunk for 15 bucks instead of what they did here.

I certainly feel that the story DLCs have been a satisfying ascension to fight an epic battle. All the DLC bosses before this are components which would help in this final battle.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what I meant.
So far (until Ancient of Days), I managed to beat all the bosses without using any of the DLC stuff in hard mode.
I will try to continue doing that until I hit a wall but I need to reach the end game again first because I started another new run...
But I will never forgive Atlus after what they did to Lucifer. They could at least bring his true form as one of the ultimate bosses :(
 
Z

Zee_truly evil

Member
Just reached the Shibuya underground district, I still haven't gotten the hang of equipping armors,, can anyone recommend me an armor that is ideal for this stage of the game??
 
A

ActStriker

Member
Finally fused Alice. whooo

Zee_truly evil said:
Just reached the Shibuya underground district, I still haven't gotten the hang of equipping armors,, can anyone recommend me an armor that is ideal for this stage of the game??
Click to expand...

I don't remember off the top of my head, but check what spells are being thrown around and adjust accordingly
 
D

Dresden

Member
Zee_truly evil said:
Just reached the Shibuya underground district, I still haven't gotten the hang of equipping armors,, can anyone recommend me an armor that is ideal for this stage of the game??
Click to expand...

Just use the white samurai armor and swap out each piece for any quest upgrades you can get. Don't waste money on actually buying armor.
 
A

Andrew J.

Member
The combination of the app point DLC and the MP/HP recovery apps really is quite broken. Case in point: I'm in
Blasted Tokyo
, and I've pretty much been fully stocked on Chakra Pots and Beads since Shibuya.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
duckroll said:
Why use Charge when you have Dark Energy though? Hmmm.

Potentially good demon skill sets for the fight (in theory):

Demon(s) with high Str/Dex/Agi
1. Kannuki Throw
2. Phys Pierce
3. High Phys Plemora
4. Dark Energy
5. Luster Candy/Debilitate/Mediarahan
6. Life Gain/Life Surge
7. Draconic Reaction
8. Haste Lesson

Demon(s) with high Mag/Agi
1. Breath/Ragnarok
2. Ice Pierce/Fire Pierce
3. High Ice Plemora/High Fire Plemora
4. Spirit Focus
5. Luster Candy/Debilitate/Mediarahan
6. Life Gain/Life Surge
7. Draconic Reaction
8. Haste Lesson

How does that look?
Click to expand...

Charge and Dark Energy stack (though I'm not sure if its linear or multiplicative, if its Linear you should basically only Charge on "free" turns when Dark Energy is already active (ie from Crits or Flynn passing. If its multiplicative you should combine them all the time). As far as it goes you can definitely win with just Dark Energy. I was going for stupid amounts of overkill (hence the pure Phys team since Criticals add even more damage opportunities as well as increasing your damage)..

Skillwise it looks pretty good.

For the skills I don't think Life Surge is necessary on HP-type demons. Masakado doesn't actually hit that hard, as long as you can make him miss a few times. For MP/Balanced type demons though, yes definitely a good choice. Not sure about how useful Haste Lesson is either. The actual increases in hit chance is decent (but for the same reason you shouldn't be missing much anyway with high level demons) but the increase in miss rate from 20 Agility is tiny.

If you have DLC, Breath is better than Refrigerate for demons (not for Flynn (due to potentially getting +24 damage per hit) but he can't pierce), but Plasma's elec skill is better than Floral Gust/Ragnarok. For Magic demons I might also use Anticthon instead of Debilitate , it won't make much difference but damage is damage and it's not that much more expensive considering you'll only use it a couple of times.

If chaining fusion light turns out too annoying Madness Nails is the second most powerful physical attack when used on a single target and Stigmata Strike is the next most powerful one (and more reliable) both can be passed on freely (you are losing about ~100 damage per use though). Refrigerate loses to Breath by about 3 damage.

Bloody Glee is a good skill for Physical demons as well.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
ColossalLazy said:
I defeated Kenji so the question is about
Infernal Tokyo. Can I go to Infernal Shibuya and Ikebukuro?

Edit: Wohooooooooo Neutral path get!
Click to expand...

After Route Lock on Chaos , you can go back and get in. On Neutral you'll have to wait until the brief period of the time you can roam freely after the final boss.
 
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