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[DMczaf]

What was it that finally made people accept Cena? Was it just him fully accepting the boos and acknowledging it during promos?

The thing about Cena during the "Cena Sucks!!" Era is that his house show and Merch numbers were really great

Roman? His house shows as champ were getting beat by the B show more often than not and his Merch sales, while good, were not high enough considering how much he was pushed as The Guy

 

[Sephzilla]

What was it that finally made people accept Cena? Was it just him fully accepting the boos and acknowledging it during promos?

That and his entire US title and midcard run has been pretty great

 

[Deleted member 47027]

What was it that finally made people accept Cena? Was it just him fully accepting the boos and acknowledging it during promos?

He put on some really fantastic matches with some talent people assumed were far more talented in the ring than Cena. He showed he can hang with the best of them. Sure, he's not the greatest and not better in-ring than some of them, but he's on that same level, and it was a moment of acceptance.

Kinda feel like his match with Cesaro on Raw for the US Title was a turning point for crowds.

 

[Strax]

I hate when tag-teams don't have a name and its just wrestler X with wrestler Y.

Even X&Y would be a better name.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Alvarez just killed me this morning

"WWE can't get Roman Reigns over, but Matt Hardy got his fucking gardener over!!"

Well you see, Señor Benjamin has much more charisma.

You don't like it?! For real?

You're literally the only person lol

What was it that finally made people accept Cena? Was it just him fully accepting the boos and acknowledging it during promos?

Because they liked him to begin with.

Remember, he only became hated because he was the face of PG - he went from having the crowd love him for his aggressive rap promos to hating him for his poopy rap promos.
Plus some of the moves he does (STF, Stunner, Destroyer) just look terrible, which doesn't help. And he doesn't sell well and dumps on people in promos sometimes, which REALLY doesn't help.

But people recognise he can go, he just doesn't because he's a company man, so once he started putting people over the vitriol wasn't there anymore.

 

[Zach]

I hate when tag-teams don't have a name and its just wrestler X with wrestler Y.

Even X&Y would be a better name.

Tag teams are almost always better with matching wrassle attires, too. Not exactly the same attire, but they should look like a team.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Based on all this it seems like the only way to fix Roman is to:

Rebrand him, the Shield look and music has to go
Improve his move set, the spam happy superman punch is just dumb at this point and shown to be "weak"
Move him to midcard (US Title or tag) and limit his mic time

After 2-3 months of not showing his face or talking about him

 

[Sephzilla]

The most logical way to get Roman out of his Shield look is to have Stephanie ban the armored vest shit.

 

[Rockandrollclown]

What was it that finally made people accept Cena? Was it just him fully accepting the boos and acknowledging it during promos?

He started having amazing matches, that in spite of overwhelmingly winning, didn't make the people he was wrestling look weak. He also seemed to improve a bit in the ring and add a few moves to his arsenal. He also elevated the US Title, which has since been completely squandered. Combine all of that with out of ring Cena seemingly being awesome, people never really wanted to hate him in the first place.

 

[Zach]

I'm sure Lita appreciated how JR just said the fans were chanting "TAKE IT OFF" when they were clearly chanting "LITA". What the h.

 

[wild wild rice]

So Tokyo Gurentai are running a deathmatch/ECW/J-indie sleaze throwback show and this is one of the matches

Masato took so many brutal chair shots back in the day, hope he's doing alright.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

I hate when tag teams become jobbers for top singles competitors

If an authority figure puts one half of a champion grade tag team against a top guy, or the champion grade tag team against the classic "how will these two co-exist" two top singles guys in a feud, the singles guys should act daunted, and then have a competitive match (or in the case of the tag match, have the tag team go over because the singles guys aren't used to it/feud with each other during the match

It should be like "damn, if those tag guys ever became singles competitors, the top guys should be on notice, lucky for them they're tag wrestlers".

Instead they tend to job the tag team out and make the division seem like a joke.

The most logical way to get Roman out of his Shield look is to have Stephanie ban the armored vest shit.

but the gut

 

[Sephzilla]

Cena also seemingly stopped using that stupid as fuck Springboard Stunner. Which helped, at least with me.

 

[Bluekaveli]

I hate when tag-teams don't have a name and its just wrestler X with wrestler Y.

Even X&Y would be a better name.

I hate when they give them forced names, if you can't think of anything just let it be.

 

[jmdajr]

Cena also seemingly stopped using that stupid as fuck Springboard Stunner. Which helped, at least with me.

Austin told him it was shit, and he listened.

Smart!

 

[Aiii]

Austin told him it was shit, and he listened.

Smart!

 

[Rockandrollclown]

Based on all this it seems like the only way to fix Roman is to:

Rebrand him, the Shield look and music has to go
Improve his move set, the spam happy superman punch is just dumb at this point and shown to be "weak"
Move him to midcard (US Title or tag) and limit his mic time

After 2-3 months of not showing his face or talking about him

I agree with all of this, especially the bolded. Dude has that cool Razor's Edge-ish move. Use it more. The fatal four way, all I remember from him is him running around spamming superman punches. Its awful. Also, I hate to give Goldberg credit for anything, the spear is shit unless you're Goldberg. It should never be anyone's finisher. Hell Goldberg even had the Jackhammer.

Actually, now that I think about it, both don't necessarily need to go, just one. Superman punch to Spear is among the worst pinning combos in wrestling history.

 

[Strax]

I hate when they give them forced names, if you can't think of anything just let it be.

If the writers/wrestlers can't think of anything maybe they should not be in wrestling.

 

[Sephzilla]

I agree with all of this, especially the bolded. Dude has that cool Razor's Edge-ish move. Use it more. The fatal four way, all I remember from him is him running around spamming superman punches. Its awful. Also, I hate to give Goldberg credit for anything, the spear is shit unless you're Goldberg. It should never be anyone's finisher. Hell Goldberg even had the Jackhammer.

Actually, now that I think about it, both don't necessarily need to go, just one. Superman punch to Spear is among the worst pinning combos in wrestling history.

The thing is, Roman can actually make the spear look good. But I'm guessing he was told to dial it down a little for safety reasons. The spear he was doing in the early days of The Shield was brutal looking.

I hate when tag-teams don't have a name and its just wrestler X with wrestler Y.

Even X&Y would be a better name.

Eh, I think sometimes just going "wrestler X and wrestler Y" is better. Jason Jordan and Chad Gable was better than American Alpha. Edge & Christian was better than The Brood.

 

[klonere]

Fixing Roman is like, bottom 10 of shit they have to do.

The big problems are so fundamental to the product they present that they affect every performer, not just oul Roman. The way interviews are shot, how matches are presented, how belts are treated, how long the show is, the NXT callup process, scripting, the nature of authority figures, lack of agency with performers, comedy written for an audience of one, pop culture isolation, how many PPVs there are, how part timers are used, fighting crowds and on and on.

Y'all are still obsessed with baby gurl man though.

 

[Bluekaveli]

If the writers/wrestlers can't think of anything maybe they should not be in wrestling.

Well majority of them shouldn't.

 

[spindashing]

Also, I hate to give Goldberg credit for anything, the spear is shit unless you're Goldberg.

Rhyno would like to have a word with you.

Roman's spear isn't too bad at all, at least it isn't Edge or Big Show tier.

 

[Browny]

The thing is, Roman can actually make the spear look good. But I'm guessing he was told to dial it down a little for safety reasons. The spear he was doing in the early days of The Shield was brutal looking.

You damn right:

Roman can hold his own in the ring. Let him go heel, expand his beatdown moves a little, take it from there. And fuck the superman punch.

 

[Sephzilla]

Fixing Roman is like, bottom 10 of shit they have to do.

The big problems are so fundamental to the product they present that they affect every performer, not just oul Roman. The way interviews are shot, how matches are presented, how belts are treated, how long the show is, the NXT callup process, scripting, the nature of authority figures, lack of agency with performers, comedy written for an audience of one, pop culture isolation, how many PPVs there are, how part timers are used, fighting crowds and on and on.

Y'all are still obsessed with baby gurl man though.

On that note I still hate that they're using a gigantic PPV set for their weekly shows now. It makes the superstars look smaller and it takes away from their larger than life nature when they're being dwarfed by ridiculously huge LED boards and shit.

HHH walking out of the small Live Event set for WWE Roadblock was a more credible "oh shit this guy looks like a fucking champ" moment than anything else all year. Because all of the focus was directly on HHH and since he was so immediately close to the fans you got a real grasp on how fucking huge HHH looks compared to a normal dude.

 

[Strax]

Eh, I think sometimes just going "wrestler X and wrestler Y" is better. Jason Jordan and Chad Gable was better than American Alpha. Edge & Christian was better than The Brood.

AA is such much better then Jordan and Gable. The Brood is a terrible name so yeah Edge & Christian is better but c'mon surely they could've done better.

 

[Anth0ny]

What was it that finally made people accept Cena? Was it just him fully accepting the boos and acknowledging it during promos?

-him gradually leaving the main event picture
-him killing it with the US open challenge: putting on great matches and making everyone look good in the process
-him gradually becoming a part timer = less cena overkill

but most importantly:

-vince moved onto his new toy, romanian reigns, who is infinitely more annoying and less talented than john cena. that alone makes cena look like fucking austin in comparison.

 

[Sephzilla]

AA is such much better then Jordan and Gable. The Brood is a terrible name so yeah Edge & Christian is better but c'mon surely they could've done better.

American Alpha just reeked of "marketing reasons" when they debuted that name.

Also, Dash and Dawson was better than The Revival

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Fixing Roman is like, bottom 10 of shit they have to do.

The big problems are so fundamental to the product they present that they affect every performer, not just oul Roman. The way interviews are shot, how matches are presented, how belts are treated, how long the show is, the NXT callup process, scripting, the nature of authority figures, lack of agency with performers, comedy written for an audience of one, pop culture isolation, how many PPVs there are, how part timers are used, fighting crowds and on and on.

Y'all are still obsessed with baby gurl man though.

Nah, was just talking about him since he was being compared to Cena earlier. I agree there is a ton more to fix, but fixing a guy like Roman would show they understand things wrong with the product.

 

[DKehoe]

Anyone know how long after an event PWG usually takes to start selling the DVD of it?

 

[Strax]

-vince moved onto his new toy, romanian reigns, who is infinitely more annoying and less talented than john cena. that alone makes cena look like fucking austin in comparison.

Well, Roman is a much better wrestler in his first 5-6 year then Cena was.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

ZSJ is way more entertaining in PWG than what I've seen of him in CWC

 

[Rockandrollclown]

Rhyno would like to have a word with you.

Roman's spear isn't too bad at all, at least it isn't Edge or Big Show tier.

Its not that his spear is particularly bad, I just think its a horrible finishing move for anyone. And I did forget about Rhyno, he had a pretty good spear. I still maintain that it should be a setup to a finisher at best.

 

[Heroman]

 

[Anth0ny]

Well, Roman is a much better wrestler in his first 5-6 year then Cena was.

irrelevant. this is sports entertainment we're talking about here, and cena is the better entertainer.

 

[Bluekaveli]

ZSJ is way more entertaining in PWG than what I've seen of him in CWC

Well, I say that about many wrestlers who come to the ultimate stranglehold!

 

[Aeternus Malum]

I'm not a fan of Roman either but how many indie darlings have to come on interviews and say Roman isn't "untalented" before internet marks who don't wrestle just leave him be?

Anyone know how long after an event PWG usually takes to start selling the DVD of it?

Like about a month out, two tops? But they released a DVD preview for BOLA on Monday which is incredibly fast

 

[Sweeney Tom]

2.454 mil viewers for SD

Yikes that's bad

 

[Nocturnowl]

Smackdown has logical booking and is a lot easier to digest compared to raw but it still ain't all that interesting.
I think we're pretty overexposed to the roster in general and even if Smackdown is doing the best with what it has it still got dealt a bad hand.

 

[DKehoe]

Like about a month out, two tops? But they released a DVD preview for BOLA on Monday which is incredibly fast

Thanks, I haven't watched PWG for quite a while but I think I'll watch BOLA if I can find time. When I did order from them a few years back it took absolutely ages to send me out my order (for items that were in stock at the time).

I remember Chikara had (and maybe they still do) an incredibly quick turn around for DVD production. If I remember right the day after King of Trios they would have the DVDs ready to go.

 

[Ithil]

What was it that finally made people accept Cena? Was it just him fully accepting the boos and acknowledging it during promos?

Attrition.

 

[FlammableD]

Anyone know how long after an event PWG usually takes to start selling the DVD of it?

Usually it's out after a couple months. This one is up for pre-order already, and is due out "before the end of September".

 

[serenewarfare]

2.454 mil viewers for SD

Yikes that's bad

Not really. Still above where they were pre-split most weeks. Lower than they have been lately, but still an improvement.

 

[Heroman]

There to many hours of wrestling that not very good. I mean this week there going to be at least hours of WWE wrestling

 

[Sweeney Tom]

Don't let anybody brush aside this because it's for their favs. This week was a week everyone knew was headlined by Kevin Owens, Dean Ambrose, and Styles.

Its complete bomb is significant and is being noticed. I'd say deservedly, but I at least thought Owens would get a free pass of a week before the people rightfully turned. The favs era is nearly over

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Smackdown is seriously lacking in intensity. Too many guys played off as jokes.

 

[Jamie OD]

Decided I'm going to ICW's big show at Glasgow in November. This is along with the big Progress show in Brixton next month. Figured I might as well take the short trips over for Britain's biggest two shows of the year since they're just a hop, skip and a jump away from Ireland. Also never been to Scotland before so that's another new thing to do.

 

[Sweeney Tom]

Just like the significant third hour drop for Raw this week. Only two possible reasons: fans knew it was Owens on last, or they knew it was Zayn/Owens again, this time on last. Both are unbelievably damning

 

[slightconfuse]

What a mark

 

[Bluekaveli]

2.454 mil viewers for SD

Yikes that's bad

Not bad when you compare it to Raw. They should be ashamed of that go home show.

 

[Caderfix]

I'm not a fan of Roman either but how many indie darlings have to come on interviews and say Roman isn't "untalented" before internet marks who don't wrestle just leave him be?

I really do not care about what others say. I'll like Roman if his work in ring and with the mic become appealing to me, not when someone says he is talented, and that goes for any performer, not just Reigns. I suppose (and hope) that's how most see it.

Also, I have a hard time believing one of those "indie darlings" would say he is a bad wrestler, even if they thought he was. That's not a good argument.