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SHOOTEMBER Wrasslin 2016 |OT| - Can Punks Catch as Catch Can Too?
- Thread starter Fox318
- Start date
Lol ok I won't even get into how many different ways that doesn't make any sense.
If you think Kane and Big Show draw more than AJ Styles in 2016 I guess you are free to inhabit that alternate reality.
WWE in general is just not the draw it was during the Attitude Era, so sure, we'll just sat you're totally right in theory.
Bluekaveli
Member
You know, I may be the only one but I couldn't give a fuck less what Meltzer gives a match. Like people ooze and are jonesing over what he's going to rate a match. Sometimes it's like movies and video games, I could emit something a lot of critics will really hate. Fuck Dave Meltzer, just give me my dirty sheet news.
JesseEwiak
Member
I think AJ Styles is a better draw to the three million people who still watch RAW in 2016.
I think wrestlers like Kane or The Big Show are better draws to the millions of people who dropped off wrestling in the past 15 years.
I've said this before - if you're OK with RAW drawing three million and the WWE being some niche nerdy thing, fine. But, if you tell me Daniel Bryan, AJ Styles, Kevin Owens, Cesaro, or some other indy guy is going to start a new boom period, then that's where I'll step in.
Outside of John Cena and Brock Lesnar, there is nobody that appeals to a possible casual audience in the WWE today. Nobody. I still think among the current roster, Roman's still the guy, but he's been so destroyed by booking since WM 31 that he might be a lost cause.
That bun. Those guns. The stone faced killer look.Woman with actual martial arts experience signed by the WWE
Asuka is about to get e x p o s e d
I'm all in.
Preaching to the choir man. WWE has to struggle mightily just to not suck, to the point now that them being adequate is super exciting. The booking and writing just actively sabotages their own roster, often times just so the front office makes sure the talent know who's in charge. For fuck's sake, they still have all of their wrestlers on as independent contractors.
Roman is the answer? I guess both lower ratings and house show numbers are signs of success to you? I love Roman as a worker, but Jesus he is a terrible "face of the company."
Sweeney Tom
Banned
There's no good option as a long term guy anymore. By your own standards if you're singling out people who need to retire or will be retired in a few years, Cena, Styles, Nakamura, Joe, Finn? All there, all done. Reigns, Dean, and SSeth are the only guys there under 33, and guess what? They've failed. I will forever stand by this, splitting up the Shield and doing the solo experiment was by far the biggest mistake, and the biggest ruiner of careers, WWE in the 2010s has ever and will yet seen.
Who's left? Not saying "so give it to Reigns". Hell, I won't even do what I want and say "give it to Kane." Honest question. When everyone else is dead, gone, about to be gone, or already failed on their own, who's left at the top of this very very sad looking mountain?
Fuck it. If I'm them, I'm jumping for that phone the second the Hardys' contracts expire in early 2017
JesseEwiak
Member
He was a terrible "face of the company" because the company horribly booked him. The moment Triple H's boy Seth got put over him at WM 31, I knew he was screwed. The truth is, if they would've just gone forward with Roman as the champ after that WM, it would've been salvageable. Yeah, the post-WM crowd would've hated it, but they're marks who pay thousands of dollars for WM tickets while hating the product, so fuck 'em.
Like I've said before, Roman may not be the guy. But neither is Owens, Rollins, Ambrose, Styles, Joe, Nakamura, Ziggler, any of the CWC folks, Corbin, etc. To be honest, the only guy on the roster I think has a shadow of a chance is Big E, but only if they really book his break up w/ The New Day well.
serenewarfare
Banned
You know Roman was Triple H's "boy" from the start, right? Triple H was the one who handpicked him from developmental and got behind him as the next guy.
And anyway, with the way this company books, there aren't any guys who are getting over as "the guy". Doesn't matter who they are. So talking about "this guy can be the one and this one can't" is foolish and a non-starter.
Roman wasnt screw by seth, a over baby would have made that and the feud pure money. The evolving wwe universe screwed roman.
Well 80s roman would have super cut due to all the roids he would be taking, he would have been a huge star.
serenewarfare
Banned
Trying to say who can be the top guy and who can't is really a fool's errand. Like Meltzer has always said, the best measure of how well a guy can get over is how well he gets over. If someone would have said coming off of Hogan that the next top guy was going to be a bald guy who drank beer and gave people the middle finger, no one would have believed that. Same with the Austin to Cena transition. There's no one defining trait that says "oh, this is the guy". Who "the guy" is is whoever gets over to that level when given the right push.
No way. In a world of statuesque Hogans, over the top Savages, super gimmicked out Rudes, Roman would have still been nothing.
Roman Reigns with roids would have been Billy Jack Haynes. Roman has a better chance of being 'the guy' now than any previous decade because big guys aren't as prevalent and all the promos are the same simple format for everyone anyways.
Sweeney Tom
Banned
Funny how this wasn't the tune a year (hell, we can even go back two) ago when the thread was trying to tell me Bryan still had a career, despite what doctors, coworkers, friends, family, and bosses were publicly saying
Bring him back and make him the guy. We demand it!!
serenewarfare
Banned
There's a difference between saying "make this guy the top guy" and "give this guy who is super over already a real chance to be the top guy".
eh, today no one cares how big you are anymore, they care way more about the in ring work.
They care about perception of ring work which is based on working Not WWE territories to get indie workrate cred and perception that X performer is "not what WWE wants" for an underdog meta-narrative regardless of how the company actually views the performer.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Hot take:
No one will ever be the guy as long as authority figures exist the way they do now.
No one will ever be the guy as long as authority figures exist the way they do now.
JesseEwiak
Member
Bingo. Cody Rhodes is supposedly a great worker despite the fact that in reality, he's much closer to the "smart" fan view of Reigns of just having a name, a few moves, and a good body. Rhodes is painfully medicore and probably the 2nd or 3rd worst guy in the BOLA tournament.
I mean this is also largely true. But, it'd help if they could book any top face well. Even ones I don't personally like.
serenewarfare
Banned
No shit. The environment is not conducive to making your guys seem like stars. Austin was the exception, not the rule.
I wonder if Nash wasn't in the WWF, if Vince would have tried to go with Razor as THE guy. Scott Hall could not look more like 'THE guy' if he tried. Tall, ripped, handsome, charismatic, a versatile wrestler, smart about what works in pro wrestling. When he was heel he was over, when he was face he was arguably the most over guy on the roster during the New Generation depending on the town.
I know, right?
serenewarfare
Banned
Again, trying to say "this guy is over or not over based on this one thing" is dumb. Guys who are worse workers than Seth or Owens have managed to get over just like guys who are worse promos than Cena or Enzo have managed to get over. There is no one determining factor to why a guy does or does not get over. There's no track record or history saying otherwise. Guys getting over is intangible and in most cases not predictable, no matter how much you, I, or anyone else in this thread or in wrestling thinks they know it.
No a cares about indie cred, they care about good workers which wwe has a hard time not killing. Also at a certain point it pretty obvious to know what wwe cares about a wrestler.
Bluekaveli
Member
Shut up stumpy
Sweeney Tom
Banned
They aren't ever getting rid of authority figures. Believe me, I wish it'd happen but it's never going to.
Like they break up teams as soon as they get bored and want a face from the moment it worked with Shawn on, so too will they forever do dumb/bad/obnoxious authority figures you'll get sick of long before they finally get offstage. Like with Shawn, it actually worked with Vince by accident (and plus he actually regularly got comeuppance at least, which the rest of the McMahons will never realize), and they keep thinking they can make many accidents great
I would punch myself in the dick as hard as I could if it meant I could get a Broken Matt run in WWE.
The real exception was Vince McMahon. I mean, he peed his pants in the middle of the ring to get Austin over. If Stephanie or HHH decide to pee their pants in the ring, maybe someone would get over other than them.
Dark Ninja
Member
Is Ho Ho Lun already penciled in for Mania's Main Event
Guh, I almost wiped this from my memory.
The latest rumor is that he's winning the Andre Battle Royal.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Face authority figures like the ones we have now are completely useless. You might as well allude to 'the championship committee' like the old days.
If Scott stayed in the WWF, how long do you think the Razor Ramon character would have lasted? Could he ever keep it going or transition out of it without killing his heat?
If Scott stayed in the WWF, how long do you think the Razor Ramon character would have lasted? Could he ever keep it going or transition out of it without killing his heat?
Now you're speaking my language!
i honestly don't see why not. from a money making perspective, creating a chinese star should be one of their top priorities.
if would be nice if their chinese star was, you know, talented... but clearly they don't give a fuck.
Ho Ho Lun is the next Hogan brother. Gonna body slam Andre's son in front of 500,000 Ho-Ho-Maniacs.
slightconfuse
Banned
He wouldn't have lasted period. Guy was too deep in the bottle
Scott's a smart enough guy and had Vince's ear. He likely would have shortly transitioned to the Scott Hall character(but probably still under the name Razor) and retconned the accent. Or they would have made the Razor character more explicitly violent since they were doing the Atttiude Era thing.
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