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[PHOENIXZERO]

I love the reoccurring idea that if it wasn't for Vince that the territories would've still flourished and been around to this very today, the territory days were numbered in 80s whether they knew it or not the rise of cable was going to lead to its destruction with or without Vince, it was just a matter of time. Territories would've still been merging or being absorbed by the larger ones, someone or multiple promotions were going to go national no matter what, Crockett could've done it with GCW but still if Turner still bought Crockett out then he would've done it for him.

The demand for name talent would've driven to raids the whole "honor" thing between promoters would've been thrown right out the window when big money got involved. People want to over look and romanticize the "territory days" with its promoters being who were set in their ways and didn't want to evolve and modernize their product and with or without Vince kayfabe was going to be dead before too much longer anyway and really should've been decades prior since it wasn't as if the news media didn't report on it, hell there were stories on how "wrestling is fake" all the way back in the 1920s. Aside from it being Vince's way to get out of paying taxes and out from under the thumb of athletic commissions, freely admitting he was selling entertainment/athletic exhibitions probably made it easier for masses to accept as the wall of kayfabe crumbled down, attitudes towards it would probably be worse. I mean I wouldn't mind a little more of it these lately but the days of old ladies calling 9-11 because Dusty Rhodes is being attacked were going to largely over anyway. Things would've certainly been different but much of the end result would've still been the same. Who knows, maybe wrestling would be in a better place but with how so many were run, even without WWE I doubt it.

When it comes to TNA, WWE is basically the only one with the means to do anything with the library they have and aside from their TV deals the only asset the company has and given the paltry amount Vince got WCW and all library's Jim Crockett owned that got transferred to WCW from other promotions, there's a set market price aside from the number of years that have passed, it'd be just about useless to anyone else outside making DVDs that very few will actually buy. It's not Vince's fault TNA is and always been in the position its in either.

Besides that, anyone invoking Hitler is a fucking idiot.

EDIT: Fuck I wrote too much and I need sleep. Oh and since I just saw this...

https://twitter.com/RandyOrton/status/778115361686351872

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Don't forget they talked about a new era and wanted to shift away from the shield guys 2 weeks ago. Who are the two top faces right now in RAW ?

Sami Zayn & Cesaro

 

[FeenixRising]

Randy Orton needs to learn how to control his Twitter fingers

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

RANDY 4 TRUMP

 

[imBask]

"I'm white and want all people to live"

People are so fucking stupid.

but outside of that context, I am white and I do want all people to live... am I hitler?

 

[Sweeney Tom]

To recap, things white people have a problem with: black lives mattering, black lives protesting killings by sitting, black lives protesting killings by standing with fists in the air

Hmm I think there's a consistency, something they actually always have a problem with, maybe two words, but I just can't seem to pinpoint what

 

[WouldYouKindly]

To recap, things white people have a problem with: black lives mattering, black lives protesting killings by sitting, black lives protesting killings by standing with fists in the air

Hmm I think there's a consistency, something they actually always have a problem with, maybe two words, but I just can't seem to pinpoint what

Foh with that in this thread

 

[Sephzilla]

"I'm white and want all people to live"

People are so fucking stupid.

I generally support the idea that skin color shouldn't matter and all people should be equal / wanting all people to live. But unfortunately that isn't the reality of the modern world, and the people who use the "all lives matter" phrase are simply trying to solidify their white privilege. It sucks because I'd love to see a day where race and skin color actually didn't matter and we actually achieve racial equality in this country instead of white people clinging to all the power.

 

[Sweeney Tom]

Guy who went AWOL being all like "how dare the military be disrespected" lmfao

 

[imBask]

I am too but it does not specifically address issues sensitive exclusively to the black community at the moment. Hence the disrespect, even if unintentional.

I don't want to get into it in a wrasslin thread of all things. Randy, a dude who dropped out of the fucking marine Corp, talking about what is or isn't brave

I know my dude, i'm kidding

Orton is kind of a douche and that's that

 

[jmdajr]

Yup. Tuesday.

 

[Sephzilla]

Yeah, AWOL Orton getting uppity about the military being disrespected is a pretty big pot/kettle situation

 

[Sweeney Tom]

Yup. Tuesday.

2foggy4me

 

[imBask]

You guys are in some real shit right now and most people don't even realize it. Hillary vs Trump is hilarious/terrifying looking in from outside

 

[Sephzilla]

You guys are in some real shit right now and most people don't even realize it. Hillary vs Trump is hilarious/terrifying looking in from outside

Oh trust me, it's terrifying from the inside too. I'm legitimately afraid of Trump getting elected. On that note; I'm dropping out of this convo because politics + internet are a quick way to get worked into a shoot.

 

[Zach]

Politicsss yeeeaaah!

 

[Sweeney Tom]

You guys are in some real shit right now and most people don't even realize it. Hillary vs Trump is hilarious/terrifying looking in from outside

Doing my best after debates to help my local community vote. Already resigned myself to drinking election night, best I can hope for is it's celebration

 

[imBask]

Vote for SMACKDOWN TONIGHT BAYBEEEEE

 

[Anth0ny]

i wish they didn't call it a suicide dive. every time michael cole says suicide dive (which is a lot since every wrestler does it multiple times a night) I am reminded of the chris benoit murder suicide.

they should change the name and i'm thinking of sending a formal complaint to wwe

 

[Heroman]

Kevin , the champ of the universe,owens lost to Roman,BOooooooooo, Reigns ?

fuck this company.

 

[Zach]

Sweeney Thomas, T+S was pretty good last night. Could've busted out the acoustic guitars a little more, but what can ya do?

 

[sf2fanatic]

Another smoggy day in H town!

Humid as F over here in L.A. right now

 

[imBask]

Humid as F over here in L.A. right now

West coast people complaining about humidity

in 2016

 

[Barrage]

Other than the Foley thing- which hurt it because Foleybhas zero to do with cruiserweights- the match and presentation was fine. If the exact same match had happened on Smackdown with a different annoucner I doubt there'd be so many claims that WWE "fucked it up".

And if Foley announcing can ruin the entire division on Night 1, then the Division isn't worth shit.

 

[klonere]

tbh Braun squashing them all and calling out Brock Lesnar would do more for the wrestling business than actually having a good CW division.

Only half joking.

 

[MC Safety]

So what sort-of gimmick is worse:

"Come to Puerto Rico!"

or...

"Can I interest you in a time share?"

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

tbh Braun squashing them all and calling out Brock Lesnar would do more for the wrestling business than actually having a good CW division.

Only half joking.

I would be way into this, no joke. Mostly because Braun seems like a teddy bear of a guy in real life so it'd be funny to see him try to handle Brock

 

[Barrage]

tbh Braun squashing them all and calling out Brock Lesnar would do more for the wrestling business than actually having a good CW division.

Only half joking.

Heyman coming out to try and be Strowman's Advocate and Strowman throwing him across the room would also work.

Altho the Lesnar/Shane thing theyre doing does have freakshow appeal.

 

[Heroman]

Brawn can't call out anybody, he doesn't even know how to work a full length match.

 

[Cagey]

So what sort-of gimmick is worse:

"Come to Puerto Rico!"

or...

"Can I interest you in a time share?"

The former.

The timeshare thing can be a fun low card comedy. A bunch of annoying sleazy salesman fucks running around trying to scam the locker room and getting beat up for it.

 

[Mahonay]

I'm gonna catch the Cruiserweight segment today, other than that, was there anything on RAW worth watching?

 

[Anth0ny]

Other than the Foley thing- which hurt it because Foleybhas zero to do with cruiserweights- the match and presentation was fine. If the exact same match had happened on Smackdown with a different annoucner I doubt there'd be so many claims that WWE "fucked it up".

And if Foley announcing can ruin the entire division on Night 1, then the Division isn't worth shit.

nah, the biggest problem was putting them in the 10:20PM death spot after two boring ass hours of raw. is a match still good if no one sees it?

"ruined" is obviously an exaggeration, but it wasn't a great first night.

 

[Sephzilla]

The Shining Stars are quite possibly the most dead on arrival gimmick I have ever seen

 

[Heroman]

Why would they put the cruiser weighs into the 3rd hour? Don't they look at there own ratings?

 

[Lothar]

This Foley intro for the Cruiserweights...he sounds like he's introducing people to a circus act.

The "This is awesome" chant when they were doing flips and dives added to that feeling. I hope there's some crusierweight matches that aren't just about flashy moves and flips. I mean WCW had cw matches like Malenko vs Benoit.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Raw has incredible storytelling, foreshadowing Seth's cave dive with the table spot from the start, genius, Cole even practised his DON'T DO IT speech on the earlier dive.

Nah, Raw was drab as usual. Thanks to the new PPV explosion WWE can and probably should now be entirely digested through those events with perhaps a curiosity glance at Smackdown every now and then.

 

[Aiii]

Why would they put the cruiser weighs into the 3rd hour? Don't they look at there own ratings?

Because children don't care about little people.

 

[Mahonay]

nah, the biggest problem was putting them in the 10:20PM death spot after two boring ass hours of raw. is a match still good if no one sees it?

"ruined" is obviously an exaggeration, but it wasn't a great first night.

The old WCW template of opening the show with Cruiserweights was staring them directly in the face. But in typical "we are smarter than the business" WWE fashion they overthought the whole thing.

 

[miserable]

Ibushi looks really smart now by not signing

 

[Man God]

Doing my best after debates to help my local community vote. Already resigned myself to drinking election night, best I can hope for is it's celebration

Don't worry, Trump can win one for the land.

 

[ReiGun]

The Shining Stars are quite possibly the most dead on arrival gimmick I have ever seen

Their gimmick for the longest was simply "Vacation in Puerto Rico! It's awesome!" What exactly is heelish about that?

Turning them into sleazy salesmen is better, but it still has a pretty short shelf life.

 

[Nocturnowl]

The old WCW template of opening the show with Cruiserweights was staring them directly in the face. But in typical "we are smarter than the business" WWE fashion they overthought the whole thing.

Why open with cruiserweights putting on a fast and engaging opener when you can have a riveting promo exchange between the big dog Roman Reigns and Stephanie McMahon?

 

[Kaladin]

I didn't hate the CW segment. It showcased 4 new talents in a limited timeframe. While Foley's intro fell flat, did you expect anything less after Stephanie's intro of the Women's Revolution? At this point, things like that are whatever. The match itself was good. I think most expected a multi-man bought to determine the #1 contender for TJ Perkins. They did the best they could to showcase 4 new talents with that. The biggest fault I saw was not having a showdown with Kendrick and TJP at the end of the match. You go out of your way to introduce these four talents in a format designed for a wider audience who might not have seen the Cruiserweight Classic and don't introduce the champ? For shame, WWE. For shame.

Don't judge the division on this, the cruiserweights will be around. We'll get to see lots of them and they're trying to introduce somewhere around ten talents to a larger audience who might not have ever seen them before.

 

[Mahonay]

Their gimmick for the longest was simply "Vacation in Puerto Rico! It's awesome!" What exactly is heelish about that?

Turning them into sleazy salesmen is better, but it still has a pretty short shelf life.

A country promoting it's self as a getaway from America is heelish to Vince.

"Oh? Do you actually think you are better than us? HAH!"

 

[Sephzilla]

It would have made more sense for HHH to be the guy who introduces the cruiserweights

A country promoting it's self as a getaway from America is heelish to Vince.

"Oh? Do you actually think you are better than us? HAH!"

This is probably more true than we realize. I also wouldn't put it past Vince to not realize that Puerto Rico is a US territory

 

[ReiGun]

A country promoting it's self as a getaway from America is heelish to Vince.

"Oh? Do you actually think you are better than us? HAH!"

I wonder if someone has explained to him that Puerto Rico is a US territory. I imagine someone thought to, but then decided there was no point.

 

[jmdajr]

It would have made more sense for HHH to be the guy who introduces the cruiserweights

Absolutely. Foley has never put anyone over!

Spoiler

hur hur hur HHH joke, hur

 

[Tagyhag]

The Shining Stars are quite possibly the most dead on arrival gimmick I have ever seen

We didn't get a single picture since they came up.

 

[Kaladin]

It would have made more sense for HHH to be the guy who introduces the cruiserweights

It would have, but they're keeping HHH away from Raw to avoid the confrontations that would need to happen if he were there.

 

[slightconfuse]

CWs are a hard sell in a world where Kevin Owens does moon salts and every flips and dips.

Unless you just want a 15 minute spot fest to kill time.

Also who is and isn't a CW hasn't been fleshed out because balor would be one by weight