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Shootmember 2 Wrasslin |OT| :Shoot from the Hip When in Heated Verbal Exchanges

S

serenewarfare

Banned
gun_haver said:
Sasha would make money, people love her, so that's one thing.

Also, I think you underestimate how much money people are willing to trade for a bit of mental freedom, to flip that overestimation back at you.

But for the record, I don't think either are going to walk at this point. I don't think it's that bad. The only thing I mean to say is, Bayley would quit the industry, but I think Sasha would work the indies as a headliner.
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I think there are people who would take less to be happy. I absolutely believe that. But I also believe that number is smaller than a lot of people think it is. Or at least seem to based on how many guys people claim are going to leave WWE and run off to the indies. Over the past two years, we've seen exactly two guys do it. Juice, who was never going to be pushed and had no future except an NXT contract that was minimal, and Cody, who had his name to keep him afloat and the potential to make more money. Barrett and Ryback left wrestling completely, which I don't think Sasha would do. Or Bayley for that matter.

People love Sasha, but not to the degree that it can make up for her loss in salary and WWE merch sales. She sells merch to every part of the WWE audience. Men, women, children, you name it. Only a small portion of that audience would follow her outside of it. So that's much smaller merch checks. Then there's the matter of the salary. Given the structure of main roster contracts, she's probably making anywhere from 200k-300k per year before merch. She would not make anywhere close to that taking indie dates. She would not have the opportunity to. Stardom plus indies would be her best bet, and at absolute most she's pulling maybe a third of that.

So yeah, maybe she's willing to take less money to be happy. But 70% less? I'm skeptical. Again, I think people overestimate how many people are willing to turn down that much money for the sake of happiness.

Sweeney Tom said:
serene definitely one of the truthers who thinks Punk, AJ Lee, Barrett, etc are ever coming back

The list of people whose will to go on in the business has been broken grows and the WWE Fans just go "well they're bad people, never wanted to be here, or will come back anyway so"

The slander of Punk was particularly telling
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lol Punk is never coming back and I've never slandered him. I loved Punk when he was around and I get why he left. Making fun of his UFC performance is by no means a condemnation of his choice.

But hey, if that makes you feel like my argument is invalid, go ahead and believe it.
 
H

Hex

Banned
Bronx-Man said:
Damn, thinking back on those guys. This company really manages to suck the joy out of the people that love this business the most.
Click to expand...

I honestly think it some people get in thinking that they are going to not have to go through the lows and get right to the highs.
I think Sasha is a victim of that.
Not going to lie in my opinion she probably thought being related to Snoop was going to get her a pair of magic slippers.
But fuck, look at Becky.
Becky is more talented (she is) more over (she is) and yet has been handled so badly and jobbed to pretty much everyone out there.
 
B

Beefy

Member
Sweeney Tom said:
serene definitely one of the truthers who thinks Punk, AJ Lee, Barrett, etc are ever coming back

The list of people whose will to go on in the business has been broken grows and the WWE Fans just go "well they're bad people, never wanted to be here, or will come back anyway so"

The slander of Punk was particularly telling
Click to expand...

And many people are way too anti WWE, so always hope for the worst to happen. Vince needs to retire and then WWE will be fine

WWE may be owned by a total cunt, but they are by far the biggest wrestling brand out there. Like it or not, that is a big draw for wrestlers.
 
G

gun_haver

Member
serenewarfare said:
I think there are people who would take less to be happy. I absolutely believe that. But I also believe that number is smaller than a lot of people think it is. Or at least seem to based on how many guys people claim are going to leave WWE and run off to the indies. Over the past two years, we've seen exactly two guys do it. Juice, who was never going to be pushed and had no future except an NXT contract that was minimal, and Cody, who had his name to keep him afloat and the potential to make more money. Barrett and Ryback left wrestling completely, which I don't think Sasha would do. Or Bayley for that matter.

People love Sasha, but not to the degree that it can make up for her loss in salary and WWE merch sales. She sells merch to every part of the WWE audience. Men, women, children, you name it. Only a small portion of that audience would follow her outside of it. So that's much smaller merch checks. Then there's the matter of the salary. Given the structure of main roster contracts, she's probably making anywhere from 200k-300k per year before merch. She would not make anywhere close to that taking indie dates. She would not have the opportunity to. Stardom plus indies would be her best bet, and at absolute most she's pulling maybe a third of that.

So yeah, maybe she's willing to take less money to be happy. But 70% less? I'm skeptical. Again, I think people overestimate how many people are willing to turn down that much money for the sake of happiness.
Click to expand...

You might be right, only her actions would tell us that. She seems pretty bummed out about what's happened to her on the main roster, and at the same time, you've got to consider the fact that she is a mark, so she wants to leave behind a legacy of good matches and being respected - hard to quantify how much that means to her. In the simplistic view, money trumps it, but in the nuanced view, who knows. Maybe she can support her husband on less, and I assume he has a job, so it might be preferrable.

Like I said, it's impossible to tell. All I meant to say was if Sasha DID quit wwe, I don't see her leaving wrestling behind forever. She loves it too much. Although, on the other hand, if she sticks around long enough to kill that love the way it killed the love in both Punk and AJ, maybe she does just say goodbye.

edit:

also to add to that, I don't think Sasha would just be another women's wrestler, who gets paid less and is considered less of a draw. She in particular would get bumper money - I would pay for very few wrestling shows and I'd pay to see Sasha wrestle a big match, cos she's a very good wrestler and has it, and they are so many guys like me and that's before you even bring in the adult women and little girl demos - and she'd probably help contribute to the idea that women can also wrestle, which I think is something she would enjoy, and also be a social good, if extremely minor in the overall scheme of things.
 
H

Heroman

Banned
Very few people talk shit about thier bad booking publicly ,as it really taboo so I have no doubt that Sasha is thinking about leaving . Whether or not she does is a different story.
 
S

serenewarfare

Banned
Foggy said:
So she's burning bridges just because she's in a bad mood?
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Nothing she said was "bridge burning". She didn't insult anybody or name any names. She just said that she doesn't like the way things are structured and that things are changed so often. And that she's scared to talk to Vince.

She's clearly unhappy with the way she's booked, but there's a big bridge to cross between being unhappy and actually walking out the door.
 
B

Bronx-Man

Banned
Sting..............what the fuck, man



Literally everything he said was scared of happening to him if signed with WWE ended up happening to him




fuck this company
 
S

Sweeney Tom

Banned
Bronx-Man said:
Sting..............what the fuck, man



Literally everything he said was scared of happening to him if signed with WWE ended up happening to him




fuck this company
Click to expand...

OVER A DECADE AGO

He said he feared this shit would happen OVER A DECADE before he signed

AND IT ALL DID :'[
 
G

gun_haver

Member
Bronx-Man said:
Sting..............what the fuck, man



Literally everything he said was scared of happening to him if signed with WWE ended up happening to him




fuck this company
Click to expand...

he let them in and they got him just like he always was afraid of in the end

let's just hope the man made some money out of it
 
S

Sweeney Tom

Banned
goddammit

I didn't think anything would be sadder than seeing HHH kick his ass and then he shakes his hand for it

But then Seth Bane'd him....
 
R

RecRoulette

Member
Sweeney Tom said:
goddammit

I didn't think anything would be sadder than seeing HHH kick his ass and then he shakes his hand for it

But then Seth Bane'd him....
Click to expand...

As someone who never really cared about Sting, they made him feel like such a goddamn big deal, and the rest is history.

As much as I enjoyed that clusterfuck of a Mania match, Sting deserved better.
 
R

RecRoulette

Member
Beefy said:
I am just waiting until Brovk says some racist ass shit.
Click to expand...

1257909_o.gif
 
F

Foggy

Member
serenewarfare said:
Nothing she said was "bridge burning". She didn't insult anybody or name any names. She just said that she doesn't like the way things are structured and that things are changed so often. And that she's scared to talk to Vince.

She's clearly unhappy with the way she's booked, but there's a big bridge to cross between being unhappy and actually walking out the door.
Click to expand...

Casting this as a mere airing of grievances is disingenuous considering the history of WWE wrestlters who bitch about their booking publicly. It'd make more sense if you thought she was just ignorant of the effect on how she'll be handled going forward. Wrestlers with half a brain know this stuff does them no favors and if she's in the kind of situation where handling this in house isn't on the table, those are the actions of someone who wants out.
 
S

serenewarfare

Banned
Foggy said:
Casting this as a mere airing of grievances is disingenuous considering the history of WWE wrestlters who bitch about their booking publicly. It'd make more sense if you thought she was just ignorant of the effect on how she'll be handled going forward. Wrestlers with half a brain know this stuff does them no favors and if she's in the kind of situation where handling this in house isn't on the table, those are the actions of someone who wants out.
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I just don't buy that she will actually leave. This is someone who feels they have value to the company using a public forum to let them know she is unhappy. Again, it's talk. She said herself that she's scared to talk to Vince. Why would someone who is scared of talking Vince simultaneously be willing to openly rebel against him on a podcast?
 
F

Foggy

Member
serenewarfare said:
I just don't buy that she will actually leave. This is someone who feels they have value to the company using a public forum to let them know she is unhappy. Again, it's talk. She said herself that she's scared to talk to Vince. Why would someone who is scared of talking Vince simultaneously be willing to openly rebel against him on a podcast?
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People airing public grievances because they know or think it won't be handled in house? Happens all the time across all professions. I don't know what your question is supposed to illuminate

You keep saying "talk" like there's more she could do. Is "action" burning an effigy? Is "action" staying home and being sued for breach of contract?

Thinking she'll stay is fine. But predicting where she ends up is a different hypothetical then getting a read on how she feels now.
 
G

gun_haver

Member
This is part of why I say he is a piece of crap, as much as I respect his individual determination to make this ridiculous business work for him, and he's been the biggest success in that area - yeah even bigger than the rock, that's a separate world the rock happened to be good at - but Brock is most defiinately a homophobe piece of shit, and come on

knowing what you know about Brock, do you think that's really his only issue when it comes to egalitarianism. i HEAVILY dobut it

but then i don't know. so i just go by his interviews *this guys an asshole* (fine) and his stated and non-refuted views *this guy's a BIGOTED asshole* (not fine)
 
H

Heroman

Banned
serenewarfare said:
I just don't buy that she will actually leave. This is someone who feels they have value to the company using a public forum to let them know she is unhappy. Again, it's talk. She said herself that she's scared to talk to Vince. Why would someone who is scared of talking Vince simultaneously be willing to openly rebel against him on a podcast?
Click to expand...
But wwe isn't the company where you just talk about you being unhappy especially on a podcast.
 
S

serenewarfare

Banned
Foggy said:
People airing public grievances because they know or think it won't be handled in house? Happens all the time across all professions. I don't know what your question is supposed to illuminate

You keep saying "talk" like there's more she could do. Is "action" burning an effigy? Is "action" staying home and being sued for breach of contract?

Thinking she'll stay is fine. But predicting where she ends up is a different hypothetical then getting a read on how she feels now.
Click to expand...

My saying "talk" is not a shot at her or a suggestion that she should do more. What I mean is that it's easier for her to "talk" right now and say she's unhappy than it is for her to actually leave when it comes time to make that choice. That's my point.

I'm saying that I don't think she'll leave, and her speaking out on a podcast doesn't change my opinion because it is easier to speak out than it is to take a massive pay cut and walk out the door.

It's possible she does leave, but this one interview doesn't make me think she will. Just because no one else complains publicly doesn't mean the person who does is planning on walking out the door. It could mean that, but I don't buy that it inherently does.

I mean hell, Paige has been badmouthing the company for months basically begging them to fire her. And then she made an about-face a month ago and was excited to come back.
 
G

gun_haver

Member
We're talking on and on about this, but the interesting thing is I think we'd ALL be curious is Sasha said she was quitting for stardom and indie dates, and the conversation around her would remain strong, and she'll have good matches, and she's only like 25 god damn years old so yeah

It isn't necessarily the worst idea. She has the gift of fucking forever right now, and a die hard fanbse already in place.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
Yeah I think Sasha is big enough at this point that she could be successful outside of wwe. She would be a draw on any indie card. And if she finds success outside of wwe, other talented women would follow.




Also fuck Seth Rollins and his unsafe working style. He can go to hell.

Straight to hell.
 
H

Heroman

Banned
Anth0ny said:
Yeah I think Sasha is big enough at this point that she could be successful outside of wwe. She would be a draw on any indie card. And if she finds success outside of wwe, other talented women would follow.




Also fuck Seth Rollins and his unsafe working style. He can go to hell.

Straight to hell.
Click to expand...
Unsafe work stlye?
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
There's certainly no Cody money for Sasha outside of WWE

There's no Bullet Club for her to join, or NJPW for her to shine.

Women aren't the ones who leave WWE and end up bigger than ever sadly.
 
G

gun_haver

Member
excelsiorlef said:
There's certainly no Cody money for Sasha outside of WWE

There's no Bullet Club for her to join, or NJPW for her to shine.

Women aren't the ones who leave WWE and end up bigger than ever sadly.
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that's a pretty sexist attitude pal, i know you didn't mean it like that but, of course there's no bullet club for her to 'join'. the idea is, she's famous and over enough that she would sell tickets just on her name alone - and she would - it'd be a matter of keep it up, and then building a stronger brand for herself. no reason she couldn't do it at all, there's a certain batch of women wrestlers to whom the old rules do not apply and wrestling is all the better for it. that's what i'm saying. there are countless indie shows, some big some small, for her to build a very comfortable living out of with that kind and name recognition, and obviously the fact she's actually good.

sasha would push the gate up, in some cases by several times over, at the outset. that's what i'm saying. it'd be kind of up to her after that.
 
H

Heroman

Banned
gun_haver said:
that's a pretty sexist attitude pal, i know you didn't mean it like that but, of course there's no bullet club for her to 'join'. the idea is, she's famous and over enough that she would sell tickets just on her name alone - and she would - it'd be a matter of keep it up, and then building a stronger brand for herself. no reason she couldn't do it at all, there's a certain batch of women wrestlers to whom the old rules do not apply and wrestling is all the better for it. that's what i'm saying. there are countless indie shows, some big some small, for her to build a vert comfortable living out of with that kind and name recognition, and obviously the fact she's actually good.

sasha would push the gate up, in some cases by several times over, at the outset. that's what i'm saying. it'd be kind of up to her after that.
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Women Wrestling had never been particularly popular outside of the 50s and Japan. There really isn't anything sexist about it. I mean look at this very thread, there is little to no talk about non WWE women Wrestling.
 
G

gun_haver

Member
Heroman said:
Women Wrestling had never been particularly popular outside of the 50s and Japan. There really isn't anything sexist about it. I mean look at this very thread, there is little to no talk about non WWE women Wrestling.
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well there's plenty of joshi talk, but my point was sasha is a big enough name she could take that name to indie promotions (i'm talking normally male dominated ones) and headline, and also take it to things like stardom and pop an ippv number or 4 if she wanted to, rather than the dismissive stuff some people are saying about, which is let's be honest 'she's still just a woman though'.
 
S

Spirit of Jazz

Banned
Hex said:
I honestly think it some people get in thinking that they are going to not have to go through the lows and get right to the highs.
I think Sasha is a victim of that.
Not going to lie in my opinion she probably thought being related to Snoop was going to get her a pair of magic slippers.
But fuck, look at Becky.
Becky is more talented (she is) more over (she is) and yet has been handled so badly and jobbed to pretty much everyone out there.
Click to expand...

I'm gunna say no to the vast majority of that. She's probably worked harder than anybody in the division to get to where she is given how terrible she was when she debuted in NXT. Her and Becky are in a similar boat, but at least Becky got a chance to hold the Smackdown title for a while. Sasha and Bayley were arguably two of the most over women the company has ever had and they butchered both of them.

Heroman said:
Women Wrestling had never been particularly popular outside of the 50s and Japan. There really isn't anything sexist about it. I mean look at this very thread, there is little to no talk about non WWE women Wrestling.
Click to expand...

I don't think Excel's post was sexist in the slightest. However, I think it's fair to say that sexism is a huge part of why the demand for women's wrestling is where it's currently at. Even in this thread we have hot woman GAF calibre posts and people can't hide how thirsty they are whenever JoJo appears.
 
H

Heroman

Banned
gun_haver said:
well there's plenty of joshi talk, but my point was sasha is a big enough name she could take that name to indie promotions (i'm talking normally male dominated ones) and headline, and also take it to things like stardom and pop an ippv number or 4 if she wanted to, rather than the dismissive stuff some people are saying about, and let's be honest 'she's still just a woman though'.
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Toyata main evented the toyko dome and is Wrestling in front of like 600 people in Japan in 2017. The sence for women almost is non-existent here and in Japan its low level Indy .
 
S

Sweeney Tom

Banned
I wish ROH took Women of Honor more seriously than its current representation (matches being a small part of the tapings and only airing exclusively on Youtube, not even as part of the actual televised program)

People can mock GFW/TNA/Impact, but that situation is preferable to ROH's by miles
 
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