You're intentionally acting like an ass if you're trying to say Sasha got over because she's related to snoop dogg, so I'm gonna skip that, and you should too in future, but I just wanna say I agree that Becky IS really good and it's a shame she's actually been given the worst end of it all. For 10 minutes there on smackdown last year it looked like she was gonna get a run and it was fun but they just stuck that in the dirt like everything else, stuck it on Hot Blonde #48 (who happens to be alexa, who is actually a good promo, which is yet another annoying thing about this)
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Shootmember 2 Wrasslin |OT| :Shoot from the Hip When in Heated Verbal Exchanges
- Thread starter Fox318
- Start date
You're intentionally acting like an ass if you're trying to say Sasha got over because she's related to snoop dogg, so I'm gonna skip that, and you should too in future, but I just wanna say I agree that Becky IS really good and it's a shame she's actually been given the worst end of it all. For 10 minutes there on smackdown last year it looked like she was gonna get a run and it was fun but they just stuck that in the dirt like everything else, stuck it on Hot Blonde #48 (who happens to be alexa, who is actually a good promo, which is yet another annoying thing about this)
i know that, i'm saying there would be dates like that if sasha went indie BUT there would also be dates like roh or ICW that were more in the 2-3000 crowd and she could headline those events or at least co-headline and be a big draw, make a few thousand a week, and figure her own shit out before coming back to the wwe with a clear idea of what she will and won't put up with
or she can fuckin decide that now but that doesn't seem to be happening
it's just finished yeah, i haven't seen it just yet though so PLEASE DO NOT SPOIL IT YET GOOD BUDDIES
sf2fanatic
Member
half a moon
Banned
we can make tonight the night 
excelsiorlef
Member
What?
My point was Cody would be just as fucked on the Indy scene as any other usual WWE guy who left for the indies if he wasn't immediately thrust into the BC which is a huge phenomenon right now and thus access to NJPW and of course ROH and their stuff... he's like one of the only left WWE success stories.
Cody didn't become the success he has because of his talent and skills...
It's not sexist to point out that Sasha won't have the same avenues to succeed like literally the only guy who has succeeded post WWE.
The reading ability of some of the people on this board really hurts my soul.
I did not say that is why she got where she was I said I believe she may have thought that she would not have to work as hard and that is part of the frustration.
And people that keep throwing stones at Bliss are doing women in general a disservice.
Sasha is a good worker, but she is not the best and she believes that she is which can be good but if it gets in your head it can cause issues.
It will be worse for her when call ups come, because again there is alot of great talent and her mic skills are not amazing.
She is unfriendly to fans outside of events and has gone on record saying that she hates being approached , which I personally can understand but the WWE likes their warm fuzzies and others like Miz and even Bully Ray told her she should be thankful that they are there
She will find her place or she won't but hey maybe she is doing the right thing, greasy wheel and all.
I think that honestly part of her frustration came from her getting injured when she was about to get a good push, and then this time Bayley got injured right before Sasha was going to have a big program with her.
THAT has to be frustrating
sf2fanatic
Member
It's all about Cody's stache and suits.
excelsiorlef
Member
LOL jesus christ.
You accuse me of sexism because I don't think Sasha will have access to the avenues needed to be really succesful outside of WWE and then reduce Alexa Bliss to hot Blonde #48
Bliss got to where she is because to a certain point WWE couldnt' give less of a fuck about how amazing your in ring skills are. What they care about is character work, promo skills, etc... Bliss proved she could take their shit writing and day of show booking and run with it and be successful, it's why they even trusted her with that shit show This is Your Life segment which if any other woman on the roster (except maybe Charlotte) had gotten would have been 15 times worse.
That's why Bliss is over.
But sure I'm the one who is sexist because I said Sasha wouldn't have access to the things that allowed Cody to be successful
you were saying she couldn't do it because there aren't any pre-existing stables or archetypes for her to follow in - that isn't something you'd bring up for a male wrestler going to the indies/njpw, so that's why i said it was a sexist attitude and i think it is. i'm not calling you a piece of shit so don't get worked up, it's just something you subconsciously excluded.
serenewarfare
Banned
It's not sexist to say there's less money out there for women in wrestling than there is for men. It's just a fact. A shitty fact, but a fact nonetheless.
No one ever said anything remotely resembling that last quote about Sasha.
Hex said he thought maybe she thought she'd have an easier time succeeding due to her bloodline. That's not a sexist thing either. Tons of male performers have failed by resting on the laurels of who they are related to.
No one ever said anything remotely resembling that last quote about Sasha.
Hex said he thought maybe she thought she'd have an easier time succeeding due to her bloodline. That's not a sexist thing either. Tons of male performers have failed by resting on the laurels of who they are related to.
it's sexist to assume it and enforce the attitude that this is the way it has to be, which is the kind of stuff i'm getting right now.
Absolutely.
IIRC main roster female performers still don't make as much as NXT male performers.
Cody did well for himself before the BC stuff. He was paid well and by all accounts he was happy.
I don't doubt Sasha could command the same money as Cody for appearances. We've never seen someone as high profile as Sasha try to make their mark on the current landscape which is as viable as it's been in a long time. If she wants to, I think she could do real well for herself and help women's wrestling a tremendous amount.
I don't doubt Sasha could command the same money as Cody for appearances. We've never seen someone as high profile as Sasha try to make their mark on the current landscape which is as viable as it's been in a long time. If she wants to, I think she could do real well for herself and help women's wrestling a tremendous amount.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
The issue is that women have shown they can draw as the main event at NXT Takeover and be just as successful as the guys. So how isn't that sexist?
They got one chance, nailed it, then that was the end of it. Then the main divisions have regressed back to mean-girls bullshit.
sorry, i removed the last part of that quote cos i realised i was conflating two posters and it didn't make sense, i guess i didn't grab it in time.
serenewarfare
Banned
They definitely make more than NXT guys. But I think the accurate comparison is that the top women in WWE make about the same level of pay as a lower mid-tier male performer (like say a Bo Dallas for example).
No one is saying that's how it has to be. We're just saying that that is the reality of the situation and it would be the reality she would be walking into if she left.
Now if she can change that reality, that's great. But it is in no way a safe assumption to predict or even assume a paradigm shift until it happens.
I understand, I'm accusing certain people - I suppose you because you've taken issue with this too, and others - of being too eager to point out how fucking unlikely it is Sasha, or let's be honest pretty much any woman, would be to pull this kind of thing off. I'm saying I think it is way less unlikely than you think and I'm not saying *you* are the sexist, but you're arguing with me simply because it feels natural, and that's part of the whole process of removing this as an issue. I wouldn't have brought it up if at least one poster didn't talk about how 'look man in the us women wrestlers just don't make that much money', but they did.
excelsiorlef
Member
My comment had fuck all to do with skill of the wrestler. Dude Cody more or less sucks... but he's over because he's Dusty's kid and he got to do NJPW, go to be inliterally the coolest group in all of wrestling period right off that bat basically, and now he's ROH champ to boot.
And I said literally fuck nothing about Snoop Dog
Bringing up Cesaro is irrelevant because he'd get to go to NJPW if he wanted, be a mainstay on ROH, these are avenues not available to women, and I doubt even he would come close to making as much money as he does in WWE.
You have zero clue what you are talking about. Acknowledging that women outside of WWE have way less access to avenues that would help them really succeed and make good money is not sexist it's acknowledging the very fact that wrestling is a fucking hard business outside of WWE for women...
And again you're doubling down on calling me sexist (when I'm literally criticizing the opportunity gap between male and female indy workers) after reducing a Alexa Bliss to just a hot blonde. Give me a break.
One year ago no one would have said you'd have more success in the indies than wwe
Two years ago no one would have said two women from wwe's developmental program would have a 4.75* match with men and women alike roaring with applause in a sold out stadium
Maybe Sasha leaving wwe could be a much needed spark for women's wrestling. Right now it feels impossible, just like those two points above. But you never know.
Two years ago no one would have said two women from wwe's developmental program would have a 4.75* match with men and women alike roaring with applause in a sold out stadium
Maybe Sasha leaving wwe could be a much needed spark for women's wrestling. Right now it feels impossible, just like those two points above. But you never know.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Cody Rhodes current gimmick like most Bullet Club members is that he's a huge mark for himself.
Here's the good Cody:
Here's the good Cody:
Cody Rhodes current gimmick like most Bullet Club members is that he's a huge mark for himself.
Here's the good Cody:
Nah, this is the good Cody:
excelsiorlef
Member
Cody was on the Indy scene for all of 7 months before he joined BC... That's not enough time to say he'd have been fine without them.
i wasn't responding to you with those last few posts pal, sorry. i'll need to take a second to take a look at this post and see what i've got to say about it.
Against who? The scene isn't that strong at all, and has never been especially in the USA. And while Sasha is a a name she isn't a mega star to suddenly main event roh shows with random talnet.
all right here is what it is
you said 'women aren't the ones who leave wwe and make money' - i'm paraphrasing, set me right if i get it wrong
I know you might mean to say that wwe treats its female wrestlers poorly and doesn't offer them either the longevity or respect they deserve in comparison to male wrestlers who put in the same work and hours, but you didn't say that man, and in response to your response at first, I did take it in a bad light. We're wrestling fans, most of us are shit people, so you need you keep your guard up a bit. What I read was 'heh, are you stupid? women and wrestling don't mix', and maybe that's on me, but you were a little blunt. let's chalk it up to a misunderstanding.
You weren't the one who said anything about snoop dogg, no, I got you mixed up with another poster because I was replying to things quickly, so sorry if you felt like I was railing at you hard on things you didn't say.
half a moon
Banned
Joshi and indie western women are who i'm more interested in rather than men. I just don't have the monies.
My next check is going toward a dog and indies. I'm unemployed tho.
My next check is going toward a dog and indies. I'm unemployed tho.
excelsiorlef
Member
Because they aren't... that's not me praising anything, that's acknowledging that Women wrestlers are way less likely to have opportunities to succeed.
I compared her to Cody because most of the men don't make equal money post WWE either. Cody is an exception, but he's the son of a legend, and was given a spot in BC. That's why he's ROH champ, that's why he has gigs in NJPW (who don't have a women's division) and why he got to main event NJPW's first ever American show against the best wrestler in the world. No BC, none of that. Cody is the exception not the rule for post WWE careers and the reason he's the exception is Bullet Club.
Also this is a pretty great community and most of us aren't shit people, so on that front speak for yourself please. I'm also a woman fyi.
So you read complete fabrication in my post that could only be sexist in Bizarro World (and no I don't mean Toronto) and then right after make an unequivocally sexist comment about Alexa Bliss. Hilarious. I'd be more willing to let it slide if you had any sort of consistency.
BTW you gonna actually acknowledge that you made an actual sexist comment about Alexa Bliss?
And no one gave a shit about any BC affiliation of his until what, May? BC isn't some golden ticket. The only guys that are over in BC were already there beforehand.
half a moon
Banned
MYC in 9 hours
slightconfuse
Banned
Feel like people are forgetting that list Cody made. Guy was everywhere doing "dream matches"
half a moon
Banned
Dream
i'm not really gonna acknowledge anything you say from now cos you're not playing fair, so nah, i'm out for tonight.
sorry to anyone i dragged intro this mess via orbit.
excelsiorlef
Member
Not but it is a door that opens, and he was part of The Elite part too which meant he got all that exposure as well.
To be fair I probably also should havew really emphasized how much is name as song of a legend carries weight too. Because let's be real he wasn't exactly setting the world on fire match quality wise.
And if we're talking money though being BC and the Elite go him into Hot Topic, got him the ROH title, and got him a huge match with Okada... He probably has none of that without being BC and The Elite.
Sweeney Tom
Banned
I still can't believe Cody did a tweet of a literal list of dream stuff he wanted to do post-WWE, and he did basically all of it and then some, including getting a deal with fucking Hot Topic
Like, that's one guy I laughed off having much success at all on indies. I thought he was Ryback-tier
Like, that's one guy I laughed off having much success at all on indies. I thought he was Ryback-tier
excelsiorlef
Member
What does playing fair even mean?
Here's the facts:
1) I criticized/acknowledged (hence why I said sadly... which you removed from your paraphrase) the systemic inequality that would make it more difficult/unlikely for Sasha to have Cody success, which you called me being sexist...
2) You reduced another talented performer to her looks as if she was nothing but some dumb model...
That's what happened.
Yeah it's pretty nuts.
Good on him though.
RecRoulette
Member
Yep. Still not a fan, but he made it work. Good for him, not everyone can do that.
half a moon
Banned
I miss Goldberg, CM Punk, AJ Lee, Sting.
excelsiorlef
Member
I miss the G1
Dont worry, Philly's plays next week. Well worry since the eagles suck.
Sweeney Tom
Banned
I miss Owen
Yeah I won't deny the safety net of BC bucks but I don't think that has had a huge effect on his appearance rates(which is what I was thinking in my head, not sure if it ever came across). I do think Sasha can pull whatever that is in Europe and in Japan and assorted indies. How long that can last is only speculation but she's one of the only ones that could cause a paradigm shift, more than anyone else on the main roster.
half a moon
Banned
Why doesn't NJPW do women anyway? Do they have future intetest?
serenewarfare
Banned
In Japan, women's wrestling and men's wrestling are treated like two separate sports/entities. Think the NBA and the WNBA. I think it's a strange mentality, but that's how it's done over there.