Are these upscale XRGB devices necessary if you have an av receiver that does upscaling? Are the XRGB things better/worse than having your TV or av receiver do the upscaling? (I have a Denon AVR-1912 receiver that does upscaling.)
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Short notice decision on best gaming HDTV from Best Buy. [Oldschool?]
- Thread starter RedSwirl
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Are these upscale XRGB devices necessary if you have an av receiver that does upscaling? Are the XRGB things better/worse than having your TV or av receiver do the upscaling? (I have a Denon AVR-1912 receiver that does upscaling.)
Sanctuary
Member
Plasmas have less input lag and faster response times by default.
I already knew that going in. I said in the OP that I'm just trying to find the least-shitty solution for right now. I won't be able to purchase an XRGB for a loooooong time. Even if I did, can you only connect one device to an XRGB, or do they have multiple inputs. I'm talking about hooking up seven standard definition consoles here.
Anyway, i'm having trouble right now just finding something that even has enough non-HDMI inputs. I can't even find a TV that has more than one component input in addition to composite inputs. For now I may even have to rely on some kind of cheap HDMI-composite splitter, and I don't know what that'll do to response time.
I sent you links to 2 TVs based on your requirements, I am not sure what more you want.
The scaling that your receiver/TV does is not even in the same ball park as the XRGB line of scalers/line doublers.
I own the XRGB 2 Plus, XRGB 3, and the XRGB Mini Framemeister. They are all really good but the XRGB 3 and Mini are both scalers and line doublers, the XRGB 2 Plus is just a line doubler.
That Sony still might not have enough inputs (I still don't understand why most newer TVs have fewer of them, just a few years ago they had a bunch).
Y'know what just let me explain my current setup and how fucked up it is:
Right now I have my older machines hooked up to a 32" Samsung HD CRT. I'm not sure of the model but it's capable of 720p and 1080i but the native resolution is something weird. I think I got it around 2004. Xbox 360 and PS3 games don't look so good on it, and text is kinda hard to read when playing current gen games. I mainly wanna get rid of it because the resolution sucks and the TV itself is bulky as fuck and extremely heavy.
On the back the TV has one HDMI input, one composite input, two component inputs, and another composite input on the side. All of them are in use.
HDMI -> Xbox 360
Component 1 -> Wii
Component 2 -> PS2
Composite rear -> Cheap GameStop composite splitter -> SNES, Genesis, N64, Dreamcast, DirecTV receiver
Composite side -> NES.
I need to find a way to get all of that working on a newer TV.
Right now I have my older machines hooked up to a 32" Samsung HD CRT. I'm not sure of the model but it's capable of 720p and 1080i but the native resolution is something weird. I think I got it around 2004. Xbox 360 and PS3 games don't look so good on it, and text is kinda hard to read when playing current gen games. I mainly wanna get rid of it because the resolution sucks and the TV itself is bulky as fuck and extremely heavy.
On the back the TV has one HDMI input, one composite input, two component inputs, and another composite input on the side. All of them are in use.
HDMI -> Xbox 360
Component 1 -> Wii
Component 2 -> PS2
Composite rear -> Cheap GameStop composite splitter -> SNES, Genesis, N64, Dreamcast, DirecTV receiver
Composite side -> NES.
I need to find a way to get all of that working on a newer TV.
beat
Member
Sweet merciful crap those are expensive. Why don't HTPC makers just add an upscaling function? Surely the hardware in an HTPC could do the job, right?
This is not correct AFAIK. 60Hz displays with support for 24p are not natively displaying it. They are simply handling the pulldown to do the conversion to 60p instead of the playback device.
There are a few that actually do 72Hz, but they are rare. Even rarer is 48Hz, but that's not normally used due to flicker, etc.
While vibrant, it's also producing inaccurate colors.
The question is whether your processing supports 240p/288p.
it doesn't
That's not inherently true ... though is an accurate generalization in practice.
Using a PC to capture and then scale/deinterlace would add a lot of overhead/lag. That's assuming you can even find one that knows what to do with 240p/288p. It would likely see it as 480i like most conventional processors. So you'd be back to square one ... but with more lag.
JonathanPower
Member
In europe the Tv broadvasting standard is 50Hz, and thus every Tv sold in Europe must support both 60Hz and 50Hz. This is just to say that a TV can support different refresh rates. TVs with real 24p support such as the LG ones adjust the display refresh rate to 24Hz automatically when you play a blue ray movie and can display each frame 1:1.
mind referencing some model numbers?
JonathanPower
Member
There's unfortunately a lot of confusion on this topic. As with many such technologies, the companies do not necessarily do a good job explaining what is actually happening here.
If you look at their generalized description, you'll see it is referred to as: "24p Real Cinema (24p 5:5/2:2 Pull Down)"
http://www.lg.com/us/products/documents/LG LED TV 55LW5700 Spec.pdf
What's happening here is that for their 120Hz TV's, 24p Real Cinema uses 5:5 pulldown. For their 60Hz TV's, they are using 2:2 pulldown.
http://www.redbearinc.com/LG/pdf/Real_Cinema.pdf
It's a nice feature, but it's pretty disingenuous for them to claim it creates 'a smoother, more cinematic image than any of our competitors' given that many TV's offer similar features.
For some discussions with people hashing out what LG is doing, there are plenty at the usual suspects.
http://www.avforums.com/forums/lg-forum/899876-lg7000-series-real-cinema-tru-motion-modes.html
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1280450/60hz-and-5-5-pulldown
What I'm curious about is what's really happening for their 2:2 feature. The redbearinc hosted doc actually shows how the 5:5 is implemented, but it does not do the same for 2:2.
While it's possible it is doing a true 2:2 (and therefore has a secondary 48Hz refresh mode), I suspect it's really doing what many PAL TV's do with 24p ... it's hacked into the standard 50Hz mode.
For video processing of a DVD/BD/media file ... it's possible to use a 4% speed up mode so it will run without judder at 50Hz (and most people can't notice the speed up). Many PAL optical drives include such processing. However that isn't typically viable with a live broadcast since you can't 'see into future'. The TV would need to actually buffer frames with on-board memory ... and I doubt it is doing that.
JonathanPower
Member
Thanks for your explanation. Yes, I think you are right and LG 60Hz Tvs probably use a 48Hz refresh mode when dealing with a 24p source. I am not sure at this point if 2:2 pulldown is preferable to 5:5 pulldown.
Edit:
From this thread it seems that LG 60Hz Tvs do indeed use a 48Hz mode.
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=3903508#post3903508