LapinAgile
Member
Mass Effect?
Should Rockstar's Next Game Have a Female Main Protagonist
- Thread starter Redx508
- Start date
Mass Effect?
That's because nobody ever asks for a traditionally female-lead franchise to have a male protagonist.
Depends what it is. GTA 6, sure. Red Dead 3? I'd rather play a guy.
It'd be nice to have them have a game that lets you play a woman just for the precedent though. The longer they go without doing it the bigger a deal it becomes, so best to get it out the way when they can so they can move on to just having character gender be whatever fits best.
It'd be nice to have them have a game that lets you play a woman just for the precedent though. The longer they go without doing it the bigger a deal it becomes, so best to get it out the way when they can so they can move on to just having character gender be whatever fits best.
But if a company was to decide to do that, do you honestly believe people would be saying "don't write a male character for the sake of a male character" in response to it?
While we'll have to wait and see for an actual example, (there aren't many female led franchises as it is) you'll have to call me cynical on that point.
Actually, in a way, would that not be the immediate response? It'll come from a different place but if say, Tomb Raider focused on a male lead tons of people, myself included probably, would assume they're doing it to pander to the main male demographic of games. People won't think they changed the gender because they have an interesting story to tell with a man, but rather just because a male protagonist might sell better, so in a way we would be claiming they wrote a 'male character for the sake of a male character'.
As you say, we'd have to wait for examples but it's an interesting line of thought.
GhostWriter24
Member
Would be great!
HandsomeCharles
Member
Depends if you want fully fleshed out characters, or a "cut-corners" approach.
Personally, Im not a fan of Bioware's implementation. Characters refer to the main character as "Shephard", or "They". It doesn't feel natural (Not to mention potential issues with localisation).
In addition, I feel the main characters do not act appropriately in many given situations in the games. Men and Women would have different reactions to various events. Not necessarily drastic differences, but different verbalisation, vocalisations and more subtle reactions (or the lack thereof) whereas the Bioware approach seems to be to create totally generic Dialogue and responses that are so neutral and bland it feels like your main characters are just Androids.
Id prefer for this approach to be abandoned in future. Take the (much) more costly route of having distinct M/F characters with tailored dialogue, reactions and animations for each.
That doesn't make sense when you add the fact that every character has to have a sex and and race if they are human. And the fact that white male is the 'default' option, and if you deviate from it you have to have 'reasons'.
It's like saying 'I don't see race' in a general race discussion.
Personally, I don't wish to see Rockstar even try it. The only time they managed to write a woman character in their games was Bonnie in RDR.
WaterAstro
Member
Well Catalina is a straight up stereotype of an angry latino lady. She also wore kind of slutty clothes. GTA 4 has straight up the worst and most boring characters and story, so I can't comment on that. I don't find them interesting or funny.
Like you mention about Franklin, who is a fairly neutral, strong character. Gets completely overshadowed by psycho Travis. Then the story really is just the Trevor and Michael show while Franklin was just created just for that ending choice.
Yes, I pointed that out in my previous post about how Mass Effect is an example of terrible character differences between choosing male and female. Other than a voice change, Female Shepard doesn't act any differently than Male Shepard, therefore it isn't a great female character, or male character, because they're both the same.
Yes, and a lot more than that. There would be blood in the streets. You don't think people would be upset or question the decision?
But as you said, there aren't a whole lot of franchises that even apply. And I understand the desire to see more female protagonists, because they're obviously still less than half of all game protagonists. I do think there have been massive strides in the past few years though, with games like Horizon and Recore being announced, and playable female characters in Assassin's Creed and CoD.
Fried Food
Banned
It should but it won't
The only truth written here.
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
One of them, sure. They're surely sticking with the multiple protagonists thing for the next Red Dead. One of them being female is likely.
Dragonslayer_023
Banned
No one has any obligation to be inclusive and if they want to make white male protagonists that's what they should do, whether it's for creative or monetary reasons.
I'd totally play a GTA with a female lead though, but we have Saint's Row for that.
JetSetRadio
Banned
If she's more interesting than V's characters, by all means.
Magicgamer101
Member
No the next game shouldn't have a female character cause I want one. If Rockstar however wants a female protagonist go right ahead.
They make good games, having a female lead won't change that.
They make good games, having a female lead won't change that.
Oh yes of course they would, but not for the same reason at all. I'm talking purely from the perspective of female characters being included for the purpose of fair representation which some people take an issue with. ("They must be well written to justify their existence!" when so many male characters are badly written and have no quality threshold to be allowed to exist).
The upset of a female to male swap would mostly be due to people perceiving it to be a marketing choice, which is a separate discussion also worth having.
Edit: I'd also say that if both genders were fairly represented as leading characters, the chances of people being upset when their was a change in the lead's gender would decrease hugely, which works better for everybody.
I could not disagree more and tbh this is a very troubling opinion.
If they stick with the multiple protagonist thing, yeah, 100%.
If they go single protagonist, it's a little more risky, but still a fantastic idea. Would be really refreshing.
I think they hear the noise now. However, I'm not sure if Dan Houser would feel comfortable doing this. Might be out of his comfort zone.
You know he writes pretty much the entire thing? It's crazy shit. I have a couple of friends who work at Rockstar North and, despite any reservations about the Housers, they have a lot of respect for just how much work the guy does in terms of writing.
You're right, let's give the industry free reign to slide into a circle-jerk of normalisation and white 'dudebro' protagonists, making the fiction more turgid and stale, the audience shrink due to alienation, and cultural expectations about what is 'OK' to be in art become more and more prescriptive and prejudiced
If they go single protagonist, it's a little more risky, but still a fantastic idea. Would be really refreshing.
I think they hear the noise now. However, I'm not sure if Dan Houser would feel comfortable doing this. Might be out of his comfort zone.
You know he writes pretty much the entire thing? It's crazy shit. I have a couple of friends who work at Rockstar North and, despite any reservations about the Housers, they have a lot of respect for just how much work the guy does in terms of writing.
You're right, let's give the industry free reign to slide into a circle-jerk of normalisation and white 'dudebro' protagonists, making the fiction more turgid and stale, the audience shrink due to alienation, and cultural expectations about what is 'OK' to be in art become more and more prescriptive and prejudiced
Well they write the story so...
Sephiroth_VII
Member
Sure, if they feel it would suit what they're going for. An all-female cast might be fun, too.
I just wish they would stop shoehorning in Male characters all the time.
Dandy Lyin
Member
My gut reaction is to say yes... But it's Rockstar, and I can't imagine them writing a likeable female character.
I don't doubt that people would react this way. But I do find it fascinating how you get situations where people get into an outrage, because they think a company did something to avoid an outrage, when that other outrage was never a threat.
Eg. Video Game had minority main character. "They are only doing this to because if angry SJWs!!!!" (despite the number of games which get released as status quo without issue)
I hope what I'm trying to express made sense.
But nobody uses the "It must be justified" argument when we're talking about a new IP with a female lead. Nobody said Horizon must justify having a female protagonist, or that she must be exceptionally well written to make sense. From what I can tell, nobody really cared. People only use that argument when they feel like a male character is being replaced by a female character.
Wouldn't you agree that if the next GTA had a female protagonist, it would be better if it came about through genuine inspiration instead of feeling pressured to be more inclusive?
HyperCubed4
Member
A phenomenal idea.
Just give her a better motivation than "the white man burned down my village."
As long as she's a better Native protagonist than Conner from Assassin's Creed III, I'll be happy.
SmoothBrain
Member
I don't really give a shit about gender as long as they add some crazy character like Trevor. Does a female Trevor work, though? That's the real question.
SolidSnakex
Member
Rockstar answered why that happened
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/sep/17/grand-theft-auto-5-gta-dan-houser-interview
I don't think it's a 'one or the other' kind of thing in all honesty.
I'd like some genuine inspiration to come through due to the pressure from fans to be more inclusive.
Whether it worked out in the end or not, at least it would be leagues more interesting. Since GTA III (and not including portable titles) we have had: Claude, Tommy, CJ, Niko, Johnny, Luis, Michael, Franklin, Trevor.
What a sausage party.
Surely you'd like to see something new as well?
SolidSnakex
Member
Those characters are all very different from one another. So how are they not doing something new each time?
SprachBrooks
Member
Won't happen unless the game directors change. The suggestion of creating your own character in GTA is terrible GTA is fundamentally all about established characters that are written specifically. I always saw the option of creating one's own character as lazy and generally makes me feel less involved with the story as I'm a faceless person running around.
Youd essentially be playing as Claude and Claude is fucking boring.
They're all dudes man. Nine characters and they're still just making dudes. How are even they not bored yet?
Edit: and let's be honest, gender representation is a huge sore on GTA as it is.
JetSetRadio
Banned
Landsay Lohan.
I think if they are going to continue down the route of GTA, and especially in a modern setting, they should have a character that is an ex-CIA/police type or at least one going rogue as I think they have played a lot of the criminal archetypes to death tbh. I'd love to see a female ex-agent/cop get frustrated with the system and turn to crime.
If they are going to go historical then you start to run into some issues with origins. Not to say there haven't been many female criminals in the past, but in organised crime at least most of them are sausage fests right? I sincerely doubt they will leave the US in a mainline GTA game as it has given them the material they want to work with.
Now Red Dead on the other hand is a different story. Going in with the multiple protag idea that worked well in GTAV you can open up so many freedoms in that regard. Films like True Grit and Hateful 8 could really inspire some fantastic heroes/villains of any gender and virtually any race, perfect for 2-3 protags that really stand apart. That would be my best case scenario honestly.
I don't need them to justify whatever type of character they go with as long as the context is good in all honesty and they can do what they want. But it would just be refreshing to see Rockstar be more inclusive and varied in their approach, sell well, and try and break down some walls
If they are going to go historical then you start to run into some issues with origins. Not to say there haven't been many female criminals in the past, but in organised crime at least most of them are sausage fests right? I sincerely doubt they will leave the US in a mainline GTA game as it has given them the material they want to work with.
Now Red Dead on the other hand is a different story. Going in with the multiple protag idea that worked well in GTAV you can open up so many freedoms in that regard. Films like True Grit and Hateful 8 could really inspire some fantastic heroes/villains of any gender and virtually any race, perfect for 2-3 protags that really stand apart. That would be my best case scenario honestly.
I don't need them to justify whatever type of character they go with as long as the context is good in all honesty and they can do what they want. But it would just be refreshing to see Rockstar be more inclusive and varied in their approach, sell well, and try and break down some walls
That is a very poor example of a "good" (well written?) female protagonist. If anything that character is proof how poorly men write females.
Well yeah, it's not necessarily one or the other. And you could certainly say there's a lot of financial pressure to make the protagonist male, since most of the audience for GTA games is male.
I'm kind of ambivalent on it, the protagonist's gender is a very superficial aspect of games in the end. And I think it would be hard to pull off a GTA game with a female protagonist, but maybe that's just my cultural conditioning showing, haha.
But a Red Dead game that was essentially Kill Bill in the wild west? Fuck yeah, gimme.
SolidSnakex
Member
Why would they get bored because they're all dudes? They're all very different characters. It's not like they're just taking the same character and renaming them each time while doing the exact same things. I think the quote I posted above explains their thought process when creating characters quite well.
Sure, but you could argue that it's just a reflection of the actual criminal underworld in which women typically aren't the major runners of those worlds. And GTA in particular is a series that's heavily based on that underworld as well as movies that are based on it. Now that doesn't mean that there aren't women in it that they can take inspiration from. They've created female characters in the past that would work. Many point toward Elizabetta in GTA4 as an example of what a female lead in GTA could be like.
Militaratus
Member
I prefer playing as a female character, and if Rockstar implements a female protagonist for the next GTA or Red Dead game, then that would be great. Something like a female Japanese Otaku who watches way too much Anime could easily fit in the GTA universe.
Unspeakable Evil
Member
I want female GTA protag doing terrible things and people complaining about it.