tintin1029
Member
Guys wouldn't it be the coolest if Marston had a daughter instead of a son.
That'd be awesome.
Then when he dies you play as the daughter instead.
Should Rockstar's Next Game Have a Female Main Protagonist
- Thread starter Redx508
- Start date
Zekra Dezivad
Member
Opinions, sure, but I don't think VC would be the same with a female Vercetti.
I liked the Scarface/Carlitos Way atmosphere and I think tha Tommy really fit the role
Corronchilejano
Member
Messofanego
Banned
Writer Dan Houser has said one of GTA V's key concepts is masculinity. Whether you believe him, think the characters were decent, and/or think it's a fair justification is up to you. But it is a justification and it's not like it doesn't make sense in some regards if you've played through the story.
Personally, I think it's an iffy justification and the game might've been better for having a feminine playable character to take a look at the theme from another angle.
Rockstar's games have had generally well-received supporting female characters like Bonnie McFarlane, Catalina (who is kind of that female Trevor people are asking for), Kendl Johnson, Patricia Madrazo, Beatrice Trudeau, Elizabeta and in non-Houser games, Annie Stoakes and Mona Sax.
Female characters of theirs with mixed reception I would argue are decent are Amanda De Santa, Karen Daniels, and Kate McReary.
What does for a reason even mean? And why would that reason be held under a different light than their reasoning for another male character?
Think that's the issue in a nutshell with games (and other mediums). No one bats an eye at a male character, but a female character has all this other stuff behind it for some people or needs some sort of extra justification.
Think that's the issue in a nutshell with games (and other mediums). No one bats an eye at a male character, but a female character has all this other stuff behind it for some people or needs some sort of extra justification.
Bonnie Macfarlane and Abigail Marston were two of the best characters in Red Dead. Likewise with Elizabeta in GTA IV.
Amory
Member
The question the thread asks is "Should the next character be a female".
Well sure, if you've got a compelling story for it and it'll make the game better. Otherwise, a lot of people are going to have no opinion one way or the other, so in that case no, it "shouldn't" necessarily be a female. It could be, but it's not like they're pulling for it. It doesn't matter.
If you're of the opinion that it inherently matters that the protagonist be female, that's understandable too. But personally whether I'm playing a male or female character it doesn't make much of a difference to me.
Lux R7
Member
yeah i agree.
i can't really see why a female char has to be well written to earn her spot as a videogame protagonist.
Rockstar arguably makes the most politically charged videogame series of all time. It's weird to say they're not putting forward a political agenda.
I reckon a cop-criminal mirroring story like Heat or Infernal Affairs featuring two female protagonists would be a great way to go for a GTA game.
As for some of the posts on this thread...lots of scared little boys from the look of it. 'Behavioural differences' & 'it wouldn't be realistic' & 'don't write to a PC agenda'...ffs
As for some of the posts on this thread...lots of scared little boys from the look of it. 'Behavioural differences' & 'it wouldn't be realistic' & 'don't write to a PC agenda'...ffs
Corronchilejano
Member
Of course. That's why the next character will be male, because it makes no difference.
This is really my point. Since it makes no difference, then it's always male.
To elaborate on my earlier response, it might not have been particularly integral for all of GTA V's protagonists to be male in order to tell a story about masculinity. However, apparently Houser thought so, and if he was being totally honest, I believe there's artistic merit to that decision because the game reflects it. Seriously, this is probably dumb and pretentious of me (so take this all with a spoon of salt), but I believe the story's message is the "manly," violent, greedy decisions the characters make are bad. It was an attempt to deconstruct these sort of motivations.
Mild GTA V Spoilers
This said, here is how I would rewrite the game: I would make Franklin's character a woman and alter the arc a smidge. His main arc is he joins and impresses Michael and Trevor to make it big in the criminal world before realizing that these men are too dangerous. At the end he makes it, and more or less removes himself a small step from their lives. He realizes that these men are crazy and make terrible decisions. Admittedly, this is not conveyed as well as it could be but it is what happens.
If he were a woman, he could be a more straightforward vessel to examine why his, Michael, and Trevor's machismo is excessive. His, or rather her arc would be largely the same; making a "strong," masculine impression on these hardened career criminals before realizing that all this crazy testosterone is too much. She learns what she can from these guys, reaches the big leagues, and finally breaks it off to be her own woman before she completely becomes an old, drunken mess like them.
If he were a woman, he could be a more straightforward vessel to examine why his, Michael, and Trevor's machismo is excessive. His, or rather her arc would be largely the same; making a "strong," masculine impression on these hardened career criminals before realizing that all this crazy testosterone is too much. She learns what she can from these guys, reaches the big leagues, and finally breaks it off to be her own woman before she completely becomes an old, drunken mess like them.
I don't know. Maybe that would be cool. Maybe not.
Emperor_Uriel
Member
I'm not super confident that R* has it in them, but it would be cool to see them try. Fem-Boss in Saint's Row is spectacular, after all.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Vice City and San Andreas to me had the strongest stories, and I think it is because it is easier to evoke a sense of atmosphere when you can lay yourself on a theme. Miami Vice for Vice City, Boys in the hood for San Andreas.
It's more than just the era. It's the characters, the slag, the stories, the style, the goals, the values.
GTA 4 and 5, even though they try to take it to the next level lose a bit of something. There are great characters, but I think VC and SA had a lot more that I still remember today.
If I had to design GTA6 I would go back and find a previous era and then angle it from there. The Housers are like Tarantino and Harmon, in that they are culture DJs. They are experts on picking cultural and mass media queues and then retrofitting them into their own worlds. It's an ode to the past, and the way things where done in the past.
Nothing is for the taking as much as a cop GTA. Yes, we have had sleeping dogs (and true crime if you wanna be extra nutty). And Sleeping Dogs was a great GTA-ish game. Sleeping Dogs was a imitation of Infernal Affairs, but what a imitation it was. Even as a failed story the game still left a big impression on me. They did Hong Kong justice. The game had a really solid mix of gameplay.
No. A GTA game where you play as a cop doesn't have to be a undercover Infernal Affairs / The Departed-type situation.
It could be about established crime corruption. Not normal organized crime. But lawful crime. When the department is compromised. When the hero cop gets downed. When good guys get demoted.
It's a different sort of crime where you have all the legal power. Are you going to abuse that power? Are you willing to do some bad for the greater good? Or will you do something bad for revenge? Are you a snitch? Are you going to take over from below, extort politicians and lawmakers? Is it a dexter type thing? law and order? The shield? the wire?
A cop-based GTA has so many sources it can draw from. It is the perfect natural element. Furthermore, it is an excellent social commentary based on the current situation with police in America. The housers have so much pop culture cop fiction they can draw from here. Look at Zootopia as a good recent example. The main character happens to be female, but that has nothing to do with the story. I'd say that such a framing as a GTA6 could easily work with a female cop.
And setting? A cop can fight organized crime anywhere. It could take place in Tokyo against the Yakuza syndicates influencing all areas of life. It could be in Italy and Scicily where the mob is involved in 4/5 of all businesses. It could be in Russia in a backdrop of early 90s post-soviet eastern european revigoration.
The skies is the limits as to what they could do.
We've been doing all types of crimes for a long time. Let us play and see what happens once you're a criminal on the side of the law. And maybe also have a talk about if the main character deserves to get out in the end. Maybe have a talk about if we can like unloveable characters.
There was talk about Kane and Lynch and Trevor from GTA5 being so deplorable that they make people not wanting to play the game.
It's more than just the era. It's the characters, the slag, the stories, the style, the goals, the values.
GTA 4 and 5, even though they try to take it to the next level lose a bit of something. There are great characters, but I think VC and SA had a lot more that I still remember today.
If I had to design GTA6 I would go back and find a previous era and then angle it from there. The Housers are like Tarantino and Harmon, in that they are culture DJs. They are experts on picking cultural and mass media queues and then retrofitting them into their own worlds. It's an ode to the past, and the way things where done in the past.
Nothing is for the taking as much as a cop GTA. Yes, we have had sleeping dogs (and true crime if you wanna be extra nutty). And Sleeping Dogs was a great GTA-ish game. Sleeping Dogs was a imitation of Infernal Affairs, but what a imitation it was. Even as a failed story the game still left a big impression on me. They did Hong Kong justice. The game had a really solid mix of gameplay.
No. A GTA game where you play as a cop doesn't have to be a undercover Infernal Affairs / The Departed-type situation.
It could be about established crime corruption. Not normal organized crime. But lawful crime. When the department is compromised. When the hero cop gets downed. When good guys get demoted.
It's a different sort of crime where you have all the legal power. Are you going to abuse that power? Are you willing to do some bad for the greater good? Or will you do something bad for revenge? Are you a snitch? Are you going to take over from below, extort politicians and lawmakers? Is it a dexter type thing? law and order? The shield? the wire?
A cop-based GTA has so many sources it can draw from. It is the perfect natural element. Furthermore, it is an excellent social commentary based on the current situation with police in America. The housers have so much pop culture cop fiction they can draw from here. Look at Zootopia as a good recent example. The main character happens to be female, but that has nothing to do with the story. I'd say that such a framing as a GTA6 could easily work with a female cop.
And setting? A cop can fight organized crime anywhere. It could take place in Tokyo against the Yakuza syndicates influencing all areas of life. It could be in Italy and Scicily where the mob is involved in 4/5 of all businesses. It could be in Russia in a backdrop of early 90s post-soviet eastern european revigoration.
The skies is the limits as to what they could do.
We've been doing all types of crimes for a long time. Let us play and see what happens once you're a criminal on the side of the law. And maybe also have a talk about if the main character deserves to get out in the end. Maybe have a talk about if we can like unloveable characters.
There was talk about Kane and Lynch and Trevor from GTA5 being so deplorable that they make people not wanting to play the game.
Bacon_Boss
Member
I'd be down. Red dead had some interesting ladies, gta v less so.
Audioboxer
Member
You're forgetting games are made overnight, and now Rockstar will see this topic and act accordingly.
In reality, whatever they are working on has been in the works for years now.
MMaRsu
Member
Shiit man reading through this thread I dont think people actually get that. Look at SirTapTap above me. Its a parody dude!
Talking bout " the way Rockstar develops women no way". Lol they are only referring to their GTA games.
Bonnie from RDR had a great personality. She was a strong woman that helped the main protag, not the other way around.
Messofanego
Banned
Who said anything about positive role models? Do all the great crime movies have positive role models? Not really, and yet the characters are developed enough with several facets to them to be interesting and fascinating.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
Maybe I am remembering incorrectly, but the ranch owner and wife of the main character seemed pretty realistic and fleshed out?
Rekki-Maru
Banned
I think the GTAO character if chosen to be female by the player, qualifies as a legit 4th main protagonist to the overall game (contact missions/heists etc.).
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
And usually likeable enough despite their wrongdoings.
I would play a game about Bonnie any time.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
I'd love it if the player character in Red Dead 3 was a woman.
GinoFelino
Member
Yes please.
Additionally, I'd like the single-player campaign to not be ass.
Additionally, I'd like the single-player campaign to not be ass.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
What the fuck does the state of feminism of the era has to do with anything?
There have been female bandits, warriors, pirates, scientists, leaders, etc. across all of history, almost everywhere. It's not historically unheard of, despite many attempts at erasure, and even if it were, "it's a video game", it doesn't even need to adhere to strict historical standards (and it already doesn't).
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
Sure! As long as it is Red Dead 3!
SolidSnakex
Member
I wouldn't expect to see anything outside of GTA specifically from Rockstar North. Manhunt was the last time they made a game that wasn't GTA, and that was released in 2003. They still help on pretty much every Rockstar projects, but the games from them are almost always GTA.
Audioboxer
Member
Didn't anyone tell you regenerating health was a thing back in the day before the government started propping up vaccines and caused it to die out?
UnrealEck
Member
MetalFreak
Member
Why does it matter? Just let them tell whatever stories they want.
R* San Diego was the main studio for Red Dead.
I think since GTA IV all of Rockstar's big studios work on their games to some degree, though. And some of the key names are directly involved in everything, like Dan Houser, Lazlow, etc.
More Fun To Compute
Member
Don't Rockstar North just parody gangsters and cops from movies and TV? If they think they have enough material for a female lead in GTA then I guess that they will.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
As late as Max Payne 3 actually when Rockstar decided to pull all their studios together. Rockstar North helping out on Red Dead Redemption was purely because the project was in chaos at the time. Max Payne 3 is when specific studios started getting tasked with stuff, such as London being the focus for the Multiplayer and testing on that side of things, Vancover for the main base work, Toronto for the PC version, New England for the Xbox 360 version, London again for the PS3 version. And then with GTAV going into full production, most studios were forced to shelf their projects until GTAV was finished and GTAOnline was up and running.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Put me on the camp of "if they want to do it, then I support it". As in, write your game how you want and with what you want to tell. Back in the days the excuse was marketing and supposedly target audience, nowadays those don't really stand.
Oh okay. Max Payne 3 even had a slightly different credit intro right? Like it just said "A Rockstar Studios production" instead of a specific studio I think?
keltickennedy
Member
It still had the Rockstar "Red" logo, representing the Toronto Studio. North "Blue". NYC "Yellow". San Diego "Purple".
"Rockstar Studios" is the term used when more than one studio contributed to the project, and yes, Max Payne 3 was the first to be released with that, it's shown as the black and white Rockstar logo.
PrinnyBomb
Member
Only if its inspired and not "because there's too many male protagonists so we should make this one a girl to be more socially correct"
And I'll ask again, why is this inappropriate but no one questions when they make a male protagonist that, "Was it forced in?" On top of that, we have proof that some male protagonists are forced in... they wanted to make Fable 2's protagonist female and black, and MS said no. There's been several controversies about companys wanting a white male protoganist in front of the cover (even Naughty Dog had to fight to put Ellie first).
I think people who argue this tend to be either naive or are being disingenuous. When companies make games, especially for large AAA companies, they are already thinking of what kind of protagonist is going to sell better. So it's picked not for the "art" of the story or creative vision, but because they think that is what is going to sell.
Some how people only seem to notice that a gender was picked for marketing purposes when it's a female. And then it all the sudden it feels "forced in". No one questions a bad male character for being "forced in". The only way to get people not to accuse a company of that is to make it so good a character it can overcome that (no one questions this when they have a bad male character). It's like when a female has to do something people perceive females are bad at, she has to be better than a male to get people to change their mind.