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I don’t like female protagonists.

PeteBull

Member
Big difference between preferring to play a certain gender vs refusing to even contemplate or want games starring them. I prefer a male protagonist myself (especially in the first run of an RPG), but I'd never consider not playing a game simply because it has a woman as a protagonist. Especially if the game is good to great like Stellar Blade, Hades 2, or Horizon: Zero Dawn.
Still, a preference is preference, once we stop respecting other ppl preferences world would turn to something most of normal/good ppl wouldnt want :)

There is other side of this coin- games with obvious straight male target wont lure in many female players(most recent example would probably be Space Marine 2, i bet it has super tiny female players population, definitely below 5%), but games with obvious target towards women will lose many(not saying all, but definitely majority) of male players, and again to not look far, very recently launched DA:V :)

Think of it as romantic comedy movie vs boxing/ufc ppv event, they target different demographic so something gotta give, entertainment that men like usually isnt entertainment women like, otherwise nba and wnba would be equally as profitable(funny anecdote, not an expert here but last few years NBA started to get boring with many teams focusing on 3points throws and making games more clean/less dirty vs for example peak NBA-from my pov-back in the 90s :)
 

Zathalus

Member
Still, a preference is preference, once we stop respecting other ppl preferences world would turn to something most of normal/good ppl wouldnt want :)
Sure nobody should be forced to play what they don’t like, but the OP has made complaints that he simply doesn’t want woman led games at all. Which goes a bit beyond preference and starts pushing your own wants on others.
There is other side of this coin- games with obvious straight male target wont lure in many female players(most recent example would probably be Space Marine 2, i bet it has super tiny female players population, definitely below 5%), but games with obvious target towards women will lose many(not saying all, but definitely majority) of male players, and again to not look far, very recently launched DA:V :)
I don’t think DA:V targeted woman, it was clearly trying to pull in the younger gamer crowd with the release trailer and when that failed spectacularly they frantically tried showing off the combat and set pieces. There wasn’t much advertising done on any of the relationships and such (because they mostly suck). But even if it targeted woman, it probably didn’t fail because of that, it failed because it was a mediocre game. BG3 has many similar elements (pronouns, gay romance, etc…) but it does it at a far better level, like hilariously so. Thus that game is probably one of the best selling games in recent memory. Looking again at Dragon Age, Inquistion had the player base being 48% female and it sold 12 million copies, so is by far the best selling Dragon Age game. Another recent mega seller is Hogwarts Legacy, and the player base there was 34% female, and that game wasn’t targeted at any gender.
 

MarV0

Member
This is the way I think about it. I also don't like playing as women and always choose male if I have a choice. It's a fine mindset to have.

That said, around 46% of gamers are women these days. It's not the 90s or 2000s where it's a completely male dominated hobby. Gaming shouldn't ignore nearly half it's demographic. If you aren't a fan of playing a woman and can't ignore it, it makes more sense just skip the game rather than keeping the "me me me" mindset.
There are lies, damn lies and statistics.

If you really think 46% of buyers of AAA games are women then I got no words for you.
 

PeteBull

Member
Sure nobody should be forced to play what they don’t like, but the OP has made complaints that he simply doesn’t want woman led games at all. Which goes a bit beyond preference and starts pushing your own wants on others.

I don’t think DA:V targeted woman, it was clearly trying to pull in the younger gamer crowd with the release trailer and when that failed spectacularly they frantically tried showing off the combat and set pieces. There wasn’t much advertising done on any of the relationships and such (because they mostly suck). But even if it targeted woman, it probably didn’t fail because of that, it failed because it was a mediocre game. BG3 has many similar elements (pronouns, gay romance, etc…) but it does it at a far better level, like hilariously so. Thus that game is probably one of the best selling games in recent memory. Looking again at Dragon Age, Inquistion had the player base being 48% female and it sold 12 million copies, so is by far the best selling Dragon Age game. Another recent mega seller is Hogwarts Legacy, and the player base there was 34% female, and that game wasn’t targeted at any gender.
Op doesnt tell other ppl to not play female characters, he is just giving his personal pov on why its less fun for him.

And about DA:V, its predecesor, DA:I had 48% female audience(official data, from the wiki), so dev studio wanted to be smart, went all in, and pushed woke agenda on top(which is way more accepted by women btw, they vote liberal/leftist in every country in huge margins, not just the US), but since its us, males who mostly buy AAA games at launch, game bombed hard coz u usually cant catch 2 birds with one stone :)

Everything about DA:V was to prioritise female audience, men looked and behaved like some gorgeous models/characters from romance books, women looked from caricaturally bad and unattractive to straight out masculine and disgusting, no dirty jokes, no voilence, no gritty dirty topics, dialogues made in a way to not offend any1, u couldnt even chose evil/wrong dialogue option as a Rook, and ur enemies, supposedly very villanous creatures cared about ur team so much they were afraid of misgendering ppl :)
Morrigan comparision says it all:
 

Zathalus

Member
There are lies, damn lies and statistics.

If you really think 46% of buyers of AAA games are women then I got no words for you.
Female gamers are not exactly uncommon these days. My Discord group of 40-50 has close to a third being woman. They play quite a mix of games such as Genshin Impact, Diablo 4, and Elden Ring. Not as conmen as men true, but when talking about hundreds of millions of gamers even a third can add up. It really depends on the genre of game as well. FPS and tactical shooters? Woman are likely under 10%. RPGs, Survival, and Platformers? Woman can make up a quarter to a third of players. Causal sims like Animal Crossing or Stardew Valley, woman dominate.

 
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kindaGoth

Neo Member
Totally fair. You like what you like. Not everyone seems to care how similar the protagonist is to themselves but many do.
 

PeteBull

Member
There are lies, damn lies and statistics.

If you really think 46% of buyers of AAA games are women then I got no words for you.
Indeed, they claim 46% of players are women, but thats totality, aka mobile gaming candy crush and other shit like that, and u got daughters, mothers, girlfrieds, wifes, sisters and fiances of guys playing on their pc/consoles, those count as players too ofc, just most of them wont fork out 70$ at games launch, some will ofc, but not many, and we all know there are many genres women(on avg, there are exceptions) simply dont play at all.
 

Halfkut

Neo Member
Here’s an example.

You make a new IP like Horizon that has a female character. I may not like it, but you do. Go ahead and enjoy it. No problems.

But don’t take something awesome like Alan Wake and then make the sequel about Saga Anderson. Unnecessary and stupid.
See this is the problem with this thread

If this is your actual stance then fine, I and 98% the site would agree with you.
I would question why you bothered to announce it like it’s some new thing when this site has had this exact discussion about 3000 times already but you do you

But that isn’t how you’ve presented yourself or your argument at all. You have quite clearly stated that a game would be lesser simply by having a female lead and when challenged on that you and few others revert to talking about wokism again.

Women in game or movies doesn’t always equal woke. The example you posted does but that’s an entirely different thing

So Which is it?
 
Just compare army ads, russian:

vs american:

I love America and im strongly against what Putin did and still does(Yeltsin was only russian leader from recent history who didnt want to conquer other nations, his only flaw was he loved vodka too much :p ), but srsly, american army ad made US ARMY laughing stock around the world :)

The differences in the portrayal of each army is very telling.

You know damn well who the enemy would rather fight.
 

Bernardougf

Member
There are lies, damn lies and statistics.

If you really think 46% of buyers of AAA games are women then I got no words for you.
Only people living in their basements that never had contact with females (sisters,cousins,daughters, friends, girlfriends.. and so on) or pathogenic liars can think that almost 50% of AAA or even AA gamers are female... its just bizarre anyone taking this fake poll as a fact when their eyes and brains should show the truth pretty easily.
 

PeteBull

Member
Female gamers are not exactly uncommon these days. My Discord group of 40-50 has close to a third being woman. They play quite a mix of games such as Genshin Impact, Diablo 4, and Elden Ring. Not as conmen as men true, but when talking about hundreds of millions of gamers even a third can add up. It really depends on the genre of game as well. FPS and tactical shooters? Woman are likely under 10%. RPGs, Survival, and Platformers? Woman can make up a quarter to a third of players. Causal sims like Animal Crossing or Stardew Valley, woman dominate.

In that breakdown women only dominated 2 genres, 1 being mobile shit match-3 aka candy crush and alike, at 69%, and other being family/farm sim (so sims, animal crossing and similar games) at 69% too, all other genres are mostly male audience, and many (17 genres)are dominated by males by substantial margin(2:1 or above ratio for men).

I say most reliable data on how many actual gamers are there(coz u know no agenda was pushed) is from survey Evillore did back in 2023, about GAF userbase, turns out 23%female/77%male(great results for females all things considering, its hardcore gaming forum after all, i was surprised myself coz was estimating way lower %age ).
 

Bernardougf

Member
In that breakdown women only dominated 2 genres, 1 being mobile shit match-3 aka candy crush and alike, at 69%, and other being family/farm sim (so sims, animal crossing and similar games) at 69% too, all other genres are mostly male audience, and many (17 genres)are dominated by males by substantial margin(2:1 or above ratio for men).

I say most reliable data on how many actual gamers are there(coz u know no agenda was pushed) is from survey Evillore did back in 2023, about GAF userbase, turns out 23%female/77%male(great results for females all things considering, its hardcore gaming forum after all, i was surprised myself coz was estimating way lower %age ).

Yeah 75-80% male is in line with I believe being the real number.. and even then I have to say is lower than what I expected... different countries will have different cultures and splits but here in mine is really fcking hard to find a girl/woman console gamer. I would say 90/10% would be more in line with the reality around me.
 

Zathalus

Member
In that breakdown women only dominated 2 genres, 1 being mobile shit match-3 aka candy crush and alike, at 69%, and other being family/farm sim (so sims, animal crossing and similar games) at 69% too, all other genres are mostly male audience, and many (17 genres)are dominated by males by substantial margin(2:1 or above ratio for men).

I say most reliable data on how many actual gamers are there(coz u know no agenda was pushed) is from survey Evillore did back in 2023, about GAF userbase, turns out 23%female/77%male(great results for females all things considering, its hardcore gaming forum after all, i was surprised myself coz was estimating way lower %age ).
So if even a hardcore gaming forum that is relatively niche like Gaf has almost a quarter woman doesn’t that then imply woman are not this tiny minority that some are trying to push? Steam probably has around 200 million active monthly users so even 23% of that would be 46 million woman players on Steam alone, and that’s probably the low end.
 
I don't really care either way. All I care about is if the game is good or not. I'll still play Intergalactic if its a good game even though I do think the main character isn't very attractive. It's not gonna stop me playing the game if it's actually good.
 

PeteBull

Member
So if even a hardcore gaming forum that is relatively niche like Gaf has almost a quarter woman doesn’t that then imply woman are not this tiny minority that some are trying to push? Steam probably has around 200 million active monthly users so even 23% of that would be 46 million woman players on Steam alone, and that’s probably the low end.
Publishers are aware of that data too, and they would love to make more profit, hence many games got either character creator, both male and female protag, or straigh up female protag only.
But like i said, there are always 2 sides of a coin, it will be very rare to appeal to both male and female audience since on avg we like very different things.
I wonder how come gta5 got those crazy numbers, aka 205m + sold copies, ofc many double/triple dippers like myself among those, still game looks to target males, maybe that is why gta6 got male and female protag, rockstar wants even bigger piece of a pie and instead of 205m sold copies, they are aiming at 400 to 500m xD
 
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Halfkut

Neo Member
Op is getting plenty attacked here with lots of posts questioning his sexuality. It’s the usual shit of people attacking the poster instead of the argument.
As I asked him before, what exactly is the argument? That he has a preference for playing male over female? Who gives a fuck? that’s not even discussion worthy. It’s all the retarded shit he added to it to justify his decision that people are calling out
 

IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
I’ve been called gay, a misogynist, a racist, an insecure male….. and I forgot what else.

Well your original post does come across as misogynistic. But rather than name calling, I'll bite and address your original post.

I just don’t find them relatable. I don’t understand why this is considered a blasphemous opinion.
That's fair. I also prefer to play as a man if I'm given the choice.
The same people lambasting me for holding it, are the ones pushing for female protagonists on the basis of inclusivity.
Female protagonists are not new. However, should we not have games that put women as the main characters? I'm struggling to see what's wrong with this? Why not both?

Okay, so having a male protagonist excludes women and we should have female protagonists instead…
No, because there are still plenty of games with male protagonists.


well, why does this logic not work in reverse? Why can’t women just accept male protagonists the way I have to for female? How do female protagonists not exclude me using the same logic?
They would only exclude you if you felt uncomfortable playing as a women, which appears to be the case. Women should be comfortable playing as men and vice versa.


There are some exceptions where I’m okay with it, such as Lara Croft or Jill Valentine.. I still prefer playing as Nathan Drake or Leon, but I can accept those others.

But you can accept some game protagonists being women, yet still prefer the male counterparts. It just seems that you don't like playing as a women at all. Can you see how this might come across as misogynistic?

What I can’t accept though is Ghost of Yotei, Chloe/Nadine, Assassin’s Creed Kassandra, Ellie, Kait in Gears of War, etc.
I understand this point to a degree. Those games used to have male protagonists, but now they've been switched to women. You want to continue the story as the male protagonists. That's fair.
The fact is, the majority of men don’t want to play as women, and the only way they accept it is if it’s a highly attractive woman whose ass they can stare at. That’s reality

Again, this really comes across as sexist.

A well written female character will have female issues. Why would I as a man enjoy experiencing that?



I don’t. At all. And if you’re going to write in male issues for her, then the game falls apart entirely because women aren’t men and they’ll never be men.

This statement assumes that stories centered around "female issues" are irrelevant or unrelatable to men, which is both limiting and dismissive.

Experiencing a story through a female protagonist can broaden your understanding of the world. It’s also an opportunity to explore narratives outside your own experience, which is one of the core appeals of fiction, games, and art in general. It's one of the reasons I love reading fiction as I get a point of view from different races, sex and cultures, even if i don't always agree with the views I'm presented with.

I know there will be an argument that games already require a significant degree of suspension of belief. However, those people are missing the point. Good fantasy is an extrapolation of observable innate characteristics, not a turning of reality upside down.

Example: Special Forces commando comes home and wages a one man war against the mob to save his town. Unrealistic but enjoyable. Woman picks up a sword and slays every man in sight… men are cowards and relying on her to save everybody… stupid.

But you're cool with Lara Croft saving the day?

I kinda get where your coming from. I sometimes roll my eyes seeing a tiny women beating the shit out of guys twice her size and height, but on the other hand if it's well written then there isn't an issue. Even then I don't refuse to play Street Fighter because Ryu gets decked by a women half his size.

In history women have been warriors, picked up swords, led armies to victory and shot guns on battlefields. It's not totally over the top. Although it was very rare, it has happened in our history.

It seems what you want is games to feature mostly all men and women shouldn't feature in action games where they're shooting guns or swinging swords, which frankly does come across as misogynistic.

If we use the argument that video games are art, then game developers can make whoever they want as a protagonist and make them as powerful as they want. It's their story. You can of course refuse to play these games, but that shouldn't stop them from being made to suit your own personal tastes.
 

FoxMcChief

Gold Member
I strongly disagree, I think they're great.
final fantasy lightning GIF

lara croft GIF by Tomb Raider



Valentines Day Smile GIF by CAPCOM
Those are all ladies with backstories created like 20+ years ago by men. Two of which are designed by Japanese devs that always think a female lead should be attractive.

I think what the OP is really getting at is, he (myself included) does not want to play as an ugly chick, that isn’t relatable.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Who gives a fuck, man?

The game needs to be good. That's what matters the most. Did people really care about this stuff when they were playing Tomb Raider, Bayonetta, Metroid, back in the day?

TLOU had us playing as Joel. Did the game suddenly turn bad when we had to play as Ellie during the winter season?

As long as the game is fun to play, that's all that matters.
 

FoxMcChief

Gold Member
And that is totally ok. if this post was done over on RestEra you would be attacked and banned.
I mean, he’s still getting attacked and called “gay.” The “gay” thing just makes no sense to me. Wouldn’t a gay guy want to play as a feminine character more?

I have no problem playing a game like Bayonetta or whatever. Playing a character in a game is not a problem for me. But as I said previously, when given a choice, I will always play as a man. Especially in RPG’s.
 

Felessan

Member
It’s also why the uglification of women in gaming is such a big deal. Because the only way men overcome playing as her is if she’s hot.
Not necessary hot. Attractive.
People want to play someone attractive, be it a male or female (point of attraction though different by sex).
Put a weak whimpy mommy-boy in a serious setting and you'll have similar rejection
 

FoxMcChief

Gold Member
Who gives a fuck, man?

The game needs to be good. That's what matters the most. Did people really care about this stuff when they were playing Tomb Raider, Bayonetta, Metroid, back in the day?

TLOU had us playing as Joel. Did the game suddenly turn bad when we had to play as Ellie during the winter season?

As long as the game is fun to play, that's all that matters.
I mean, as a straight guy, I didn’t mind Lara Croft, because of her tig-o-bitties.

The switch to Ellie in winter was fine. But every second I would be lying if I said I would rather be playing as Joel than a teenage girl.

Metroid, Samus has absolutely zero feminine qualities, and is basically a robot. So I was fine with that.

Bayonetta was just over the top silliness.
 

HarryKS

Member
I am a man. I do not care about playing as a female. It does not bother me, but I'd rather play as a dude in the game as well. Nothing wrong with that.
 

nordique

Member
OP I don’t care how liked and gifted your first post was. Respect your opinion as far as it’s an opinion, but I read it and see so much insecurities

Don’t take this the wrong way but I hope you never have a daughter for her sake


I think the game story and quality should be the primary factor not whether it’s a dude or chick
 
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Generic

Member
I mean, as a straight guy, I didn’t mind Lara Croft, because of her tig-o-bitties.

The switch to Ellie in winter was fine. But every second I would be lying if I said I would rather be playing as Joel than a teenage girl.

Metroid, Samus has absolutely zero feminine qualities, and is basically a robot. So I was fine with that.

Bayonetta was just over the top silliness.
Ellie is better because Joel was an evil psycopath.
 

DoubleClutch

Gold Member
OP I don’t care how liked and gifted your first post was. Respect your opinion as far as it’s an opinion, but I read it and see so much insecurities

Don’t take this the wrong way but I hope you never have a daughter for her sake


I think the game story and quality should be the primary factor not whether it’s a dude or chick

What insecurities do you see? Go on, elaborate on your thinly veiled jab.

You’ve read not even 500 words from me and yet you wish for me to never proliferate life. And you’re the reasonable party here… got it. How do you respect my opinion again?

Then you conclude with a virtuous declaration. Oh what a good person you must be. Well guess what, character is integral to a story. Gender is integral to a character.

Thankfully, there are still people with enough integrity to admit reality, and not pretend to be willfully blind to it.
 

VulcanRaven

Member
Ehhh. Most of us are. It’s called being a dad. I’d burn the entire planet if it meant the survival of my girls. Yes. My girls are more important than the rest of the world.
Joel did bad things before meeting Ellie.

I mean, he’s still getting attacked and called “gay.” The “gay” thing just makes no sense to me. Wouldn’t a gay guy want to play as a feminine character more?
Not all gay people are feminine and I would guess that gay men prefer playing as men.
 
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Are women who only wanna play as female just as disgusting to u? Or is it the men only, didnt they teach u sexism is wrong in college gender studies :p
75% of women have preference to play as female btw, is their take just as "disgusting"? :)
Loved this survey, thanks for sharing.

It basically states that female characters are present not because some woke agenda or "cultural war", but because the vast majority of male gamers don't mind playing as a female character. Only ~25% answered they don't think it is important to have the option. And since women think the option is very important, giving the choice would attract more players.

"According to analysts, adding female protagonists to such titles will attract a new audience in the face of female gamers."

The Opportunity in Action-Adventure Games​

The motivation findings suggest that the availability of a female protagonist would have the largest impact on games that already target Fantasy and Story. This would include story-driven Open World games, many Action-Adventure games, and MMOs. Given that MMOs almost always provide gender choice, this opportunity is already tapped there. But since story-driven Action-Adventure games (which don’t always provide a female protagonist option) attract gamers with higher Fantasy and Story scores, the availability of a female protagonist would likely have a large impact in these games in terms of audience appeal, especially among female gamers.

In the end of the day there is just a very vocal minority of gamers who complain a lot and try to make they look like the industry is going against the interest of the community.

Seriously, this survey is just 🤌🏻
 

nordique

Member
What insecurities do you see? Go on, elaborate on your thinly veiled jab.

You’ve read not even 500 words from me and yet you wish for me to never proliferate life. And you’re the reasonable party here… got it. How do you respect my opinion again?

Then you conclude with a virtuous declaration. Oh what a good person you must be. Well guess what, character is integral to a story. Gender is integral to a character.

Thankfully, there are still people with enough integrity to admit reality, and not pretend to be willfully blind to it.

“Admit Reality” ? What?? It’s one thing to say you prefer protagonists you can relate to, but it’s another to have that angle about “admitting reality”…. No one if forcing you to buy a game with Bayonetta or Samus or whomever female protagonist is not to your personal preference.

I simply said, and I might not speak for everyone on Gaf, but I’d wager many people out there who game simply care about good game design and story. Beyond good and evil was just a good game didn’t matter the protagonist is female. At least not to majority of people who played it, I would imagine.

I should have said I respect how you’re writing calmly in your posts and not flaming away uninhibited. So that is what I can respect.

But I just disagree with you. What else is there to say or argue? You have a strong opinion about something. It’s not just “female protagonist is not my preference” when you get into “admitting reality”. I am by no means someone who has the ability to form an amazing counter argument and even if I had that ability, you wouldn’t change your mind. So what’s the point?

Despite your logic, I do think you are insecure about the female gender. What is a “female issue”?

Not every female protagonist is dealing with menstrual cycles. There’s general human shit that anyone can relate to in some of these games, or general simple game elements that are enjoyable that doesnt really change if its a male protagonist.

You don’t need a vagina that bleeds monthly to enjoy a good game and good game design
 
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