• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Sick of 1080p??? Then you'll LOVE 1440p! (HDMI 1.3 and teh 4D-station inside)

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
Since 1080p is such a sore subject around these here parts, lets just bypass that and go right to 1440p!!!:lol

Here is an HDMI 1.3 Q and A over at audioholics:

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/HDMI13specificationQA.php

HDMI 1.3 has been the talk of the forums lately. Everyone wants to know what's going on with the new spec and what it means to the current and future crop of AV devices. We were fortunate enough to be able to do a brief Question and Answer exchange with Leslie Chard, President of HDMI Licensing, LLC to get a better idea of the recent changes to the HDMI spec. In particular we were interested in both the audio and video differences found in HDMI 1.3. Here is the result of our Q&A session.

Q:Audioholics: What specifically does HDMI 1.3 add to the 1.2a spec in terms of audio Video format support?

AHDMI 1.3 can support new formats and capabilities in both audio and video areas. HDMI 1.3 increases its single-link bandwidth from 165MHz (4.95 gigabits per second) to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbps).

With this increased bandwidth capability, HDMI 1.3 supports the demands of future high definition display devices, such as higher resolutions, high frame rates and Deep Color. Let’s look at each of these specifically to see what it means to end users.

* Higher resolution – HDMI 1.3 can provide over 450% the resolution of 720p HDTV, and over 225% of 1080p HDTV for greater detail and larger display sizes.

HDMI13resolution.gif


* Higher refresh rates. We are increasingly seeing a demand for display panels with a 90Hz refresh rate. We expect this trend to continue, as faster refresh rates create smoother motion and less blurring in motion sequences. This will have an especially significant impact on the gaming market, where we will see not only improved motion sequences, but also faster response times. HDMI 1.3 does not specify an upper limit to frame rates and it is expected that rates as high as 120Hz will be found.

* Deep Color – HDMI 1.3 supports 30-bit, 36-bit and 48-bit (RGB or YCbCr 4:4:4) color depths, up from the 24-bit depths in previous versions of the HDMI specification.

o This will enable HDTVs and other displays to go from millions of colors to billions of colors.
o Eliminates on-screen color banding, for smooth tonal transitions and subtle gradations between colors (See picture below)
o Enables increased contrast ratio
o Deep Color displays can represent many times more shades of gray between black and white. At 30-bit pixel depth, a four times improvement would be the minimum, and the typical improvement would be eight times or more.

The chart below illustrates the relationship between bit depth and the number of possible colors:

colordepth.gif


HDMI 1.3 also eliminates color banding when Deep Color is utilized on the HDMI display (sink):

standardcolor.jpg


deepcolor.jpg


Q: Audioholics: Can you tell us about the new color space standard that HDMI 1.3 supports?

A: The new xvYCC color standard is a real innovation. Current color standards represent only a small portion of colors that are viewable by the human eye. Take a look at the diagram (below). This is a standard type of diagram used to display color spaces (the colors that can be depicted by a given device). The shaded area represents the colors in nature that the human eye can see. The triangle is a representation of the RGB color space. These are the colors that this color space can define. As you can see, this means that such devices cannot accurately represent many colors that exist in nature – leading to the sometimes “cartoony” look that you see on some displays. What is worse is that current display technologies, such as backlit LCD displays, can display colors far beyond those described by previously existing color space standards. R G B


CURRENT RGB COLORSPACE
CIE.jpg


By implementing the xvYCC color space standard, HDMI 1.3 removes virtually all limits on color selection and supports 1.8 times as many colors as existing HDTV signals. This is because the xvYCC color space standard defines colors by means of an algorithm that can specify any color in nature. This lets HDTVs display colors more accurately and with more natural and vivid colors. The first TV to use this standard was the Sony Bravia, which premiered at the 2006 CES in Las Vegas

Q: Audioholics: What about new audio formats?

A: In terms of audio, HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new, lossless compressed digital audio formats Dolby® TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio™ which provide up to 8 channels of lossless surround sound. This will give users the highest quality audio experience – the same as in the movie theater.

Q: Audioholics: Are additional form factors available for HDMI 1.3?

A: Yes. With small portable devices such as HD camcorders and still cameras demanding seamless connectivity to HDTVs, HDMI 1.3 offers a new, smaller form factor connector option. The new “Type C” HDMI mini connector (pictured below, next to the current HDMI connector) was designed for portable devices.


*OPTIONAL* (as in used for smaller stuff like camcorders)HDMI 1.3 "Type C" miniconnector
miniconnector.jpg


Q:Audioholics: Based on your conversations and interactions with manufacturers, when do you think we might start seeing HDMI 1.3-enabled display and AV processing devices (e.g. this year, next year)?

A:According to announcements by manufacturers, new high-definition DVD formats (HD-DVD and Blu-ray) and game machines (including the Sony PLAYSTATION® 3) will make use of capabilities added in HDMI 1.3. Digital televisions will be able to present images that are closer to real life than previously has been possible. These will include LCD TVs, plasma displays and rear projection microdisplays. The PS3 which is scheduled to ship in November 2006, will be the first source product to provide such high quality imagery to these displays. It is expected that hi-def DVD players will follow early in 2007 with HDMI 1.3 support. A/V Receivers that can decode DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD will start to show up early in 2007 as well. Please check with the manufacturers for details.

Q:Audioholics: Will lossless Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD be supported in up to 7.1 formats?

A: According to the Dolby web site, Dolby TrueHD can support more than 8 audio channels. According to the DTS web site, DTS-HD offers 7.1 channel capability. Current specifications for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray limit the audio to eight channels.

Q: Audioholics: Did any cabling or tolerance parameters change for the specification?

A: HDMI 1.3 increased the single-link bandwidth from 165MHz (or 4.95 gigabits/second) to 340MHz (or 10.2 gigabits/second). This was accomplished through the addition of receiver cable equalization, which is technology present in the HDMI receiver chip (in the display) that compensates for the signal deterioration caused by cables. In addition, source pre-emphasis (which emphasizes bit transitions) and source termination (which minimizes noise generation by the connectors) are now permitted for higher speed devices.

Q: Audioholics: What part did the new gaming consoles, Blu-ray, and HD DVD technologies play in structuring the new specification?

A: The HDMI Founders include many Consumer Electronics leaders who design, manufacture and sell the gamut of consumer electronic components and devices. The HDMI standard continues to evolve to allow manufacturers to bring the most advanced technologies to market. The HDMI standard does not react to any one specific category of product. Rather, the products that are now being released represent the latest innovations from these companies and the HDMI standard reflects the need to support such industry innovations.

Q: Audioholics: Are there mandatory and non-mandatory audio and/or video formats present in the latest format?

A: HDMI 1.3 was created to support new higher-bandwidth audio and video formats; however, it is the prerogative of each manufacturer to take advantage of these capabilities. None of these new audio or video formats are mandatory. We do not want to mandate functionality, and increase product prices, where it is not needed.

Q: Audioholics: Does HDMI 1.3 specifically address any PC market issues?

A: Yes. The increased bandwidth (with support of 1440p/WQXGA monitors) now supports all current PC monitors that ship today. Further, 1.3’s Deep Color capabilities support a clear trend in the development of PC display capabilities.

- Clint DeBoer

Thanks to Leslie Chard, President of HDMI Licensing, LLC for his time in answering these questions.
 

Grayman

Member
oh cool. If they keep making new standards I never have to buy an HDTV because better is around the corner.
 

KingJ2002

Member
if i start seeing 1440p TV released... im done.

create a standard already... i dont want to keep wasting thousands of dollars thinking this resolution will be "the standard"
 

Ash Housewares

The Mountain Jew
Chiggs said:
I seriously hope this doesn't deter anyone from buying a 720p or 1080p television.

probably not, as one of those people, spending all day trying to figure out hdtvs, this just makes me angry... angry and tired
 

Chiggs

Gold Member
KingJ2002 said:
create a standard already... i dont want to keep wasting thousands of dollars thinking this resolution will be "the standard"


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't 720p kind of the industry standard right now, especially with broadcasts?
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
Y2Kevbug11 said:
So is there a TV that can actually resolve this?

Not the resolution but the color

By implementing the xvYCC color space standard, HDMI 1.3 removes virtually all limits on color selection and supports 1.8 times as many colors as existing HDTV signals. This is because the xvYCC color space standard defines colors by means of an algorithm that can specify any color in nature. This lets HDTVs display colors more accurately and with more natural and vivid colors. The first TV to use this standard was the Sony Bravia, which premiered at the 2006 CES in Las Vegas


The new Panasonic Plasmas also have 16-bit per component deep color processing :)
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Dreamcast 3 in 2009, powered by revolutionary "MagicMonkey" (tm) processor developed in an exclusive partnership with the Mulian Empire, 1440p standard in all games with 34x FSAA, Funner Shading (tm), and Shadow the Hedgehog's Mormon Adventure @ launch.

You heard it on GAF first.
 

Phobophile

A scientist and gentleman in the manner of Batman.
Chiggs said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't 720p kind of the industry standard right now, especially with broadcasts?

Yeah, in fact, it's going to be federally mandated.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Before the silliness continues, 1080p is the holy grail for home theater for a reason. Anything higher than it at normal living room seating distance and you're not going to notice the difference unless you get into absurd TV sizes. Nevermind that where exactly is the content going to come from? Advances in the HDTV field will continue in other areas, but they're largely unnecessary when it comes to resolution.

Of course, for PCs, where you're sitting really close and the more pixels the better for graphic design etc., increases there will remain useful.

Deep Color rox though.
 

manxor

Member
MS is going at add 1440p in the Fall 2008 Dashboard update. All games will be scaled to 1440p, and newer games (from 3rd parties) can be programmed to run native in 1440p. An auto-update for Uno with 1440p support to follow shortly.

You heard it here first folks. :lol
 

Brofist

Member
EviLore said:
Before the silliness continues, 1080p is the holy grail for home theater for a reason. Anything higher than it at normal living room seating distance and you're not going to notice the difference unless you get into absurd TV sizes. Nevermind that where exactly is the content going to come from? Advances in the HDTV field will continue in other areas, but they're largely unnecessary when it comes to resolution.

Of course, for PCs, where you're sitting really close and the more pixels the better for graphic design etc., increases there will remain useful.

Deep Color rox though.


this about sums this up quite nicely.

nothing to hold out for..for now at least. go 1080p (or 720p)
 
standardcolor.jpg


deepcolor.jpg


@_o!!! I CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE!!!! That must mean that my laptop LCD must do deep color since I see no banding on the second image!!! *does backflip all the way to the bathroom to drop bombs*
 

nubbe

Member
Yeah, those pictures made me so confused... I have a shit screen and an awesome screen at the same time. That to do? :(
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
The Bravia might support deep colour, but where is it getting the signal from? Both bluray and HDDVD do not have deep colour support in their specifications.


Ignore 1440p. 1080p is the top limit for home cinema/TV. You don't need anymore. Even digital cinema at 2k is only slightly more than 1080p.

In fact for most people, 720p is fine for anything up to 100" screens at normal viewing distances.
 

manxor

Member
2k film is 2048x1556... before the 2.35/1.85 cropping. 4k film is double that. So there would be some benefit in this, true film resolution... but this would mostly only influence those with front projectors.
 
nubbe said:
Yeah, those pictures made me so confused... I have a shit screen and an awesome screen at the same time. That to do? :(

Hehe, I just like to make fun of their haphazard comparasin pics. Obviously they are exagerating on what 24bit looks like since most display are only capable of doing 24bit color max, and we won't see banding on those set like the pic unless it's showing far less color.

But having said that, the difference between 24 bit and 36/48 bit color is HUGE. It's WAY more than that those poor pics are trying to illustrate (the "24"bit pic is really a 16bit color pic, which is like 65,000 colors and the "deep color" pic is a 24bit pic which is 17M colors. Even if that "deep color" pic is suppose to be only 36bit, because of the geometric progression of number of colors as bitrate goes up).
 

big_z

Member
Why would you buy this crap when Super HDTV came out last year in japan?

7680 x 4320 ftw! ps3/blueray am low res garbage!


I hate HDTV. Standards should have been figured out before the first sets hit the market.
 

psy18

Member
Damn! I already going through Amazon to look for an HDTV but now it seems better if I hold on until these kind of things to settle down.
Will they??

Edit : Is there any current hdtv that fully support this HDMI 1.3? Bravia? What type?
 

ourumov

Member
Being practical...sure that it's possible to deliver content at 4320p or even higher, there are cameras with really hi-res CCDS...
But well, to create synthetic content (videogames) at those res is just crazy for now.
 
let me break out the math again.

if you are sat more than 5 feet away from a 1440p set that's 50" you won't be able to see all the pixels. if you're sat more than six and a half feet away, you should stick with 1080p, and if your sat 10 or more feet away you should stick with 720p.

at 10 feet away you'd need a 100 inch set to really appreciate 1440p.

this information provided only for reference. people need to readjust what they think is a 'normal' viewing distance for HDTVs.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
plagiarize said:
how did you ever bring yourself to buy a PC?
I recently upgraded from a celly 600 to a p4 1.2, pc isn't performance it's doing what it needs to.

TV... man, this stuff needs standards. I'll just do what Nintendo does. :)
 
Dice said:
I recently upgraded from a celly 600 to a p4 1.2, pc isn't performance it's doing what it needs to.

TV... man, this stuff needs standards. I'll just do what Nintendo does. :)

How the hell did you get a "1.2"GHz P4? :lol
 
Top Bottom