I might replay it after my second game of ME3. Been wanting to go through Homecoming for a while again.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Silent Hill Downpour |OT| Rain, Rain, Go Away
- Thread starter brandonh83
- Start date
I don't know if I like the combat in any SH games because I never fight anything unless the game forces me to. I probably killed like 15 enemies in Downpour total, and Homecoming is probably around there as well with all the other SHs being like <10 enemies fought total (not counting bosses). I prefer to just run run run from everything when playing horror games.
I don't really think the combat in DP is atrocious at all, it's just ineffective for multiple foes due to murphy having to plant his feet to block, and apparently no one but me figured out your block resets when you let go of the button and press it again (meaning you can block every attack if you have a weapon, even if their attack broke your block you simply let go of the button and press it again to block the incoming followup to the guard break). Honestly the game works better for you once you start using blunt objects for singular encounters and guns for multiples.
Also another tip is that usually with a heavy weapon the most hits you'll ever land before the foes block is 2, so start planning ahead. Hit twice, bail Block their counter, hit twice, rinse repeat. If there's 2 foes (unless it's a big fuck from the prison + something else) you should be okay trading hits. Also, don't be afraid to throw crap guys. Thrown chairs do a large amount of damage when unblocked (2 will down a screamer), and thrown rocks/bricks leave a good amount of time for you to either get away or get enough time to find a better weapon laying around. Three foes and either run or break out a gun. Honestly if you're three foes deep in a forced encounter (there's only two of them off the top of my head anyways) with no ammo at the end of the game I feel no sympathy for you as the game throws shotty ammo at you in this section, and one shotty blast should down a the big guys.
This reminds me a lot of the Arkham games, but in reverse. Arkham games have crappy singular foe encounters but good multiples due to the way the system is designed.
Also another tip is that usually with a heavy weapon the most hits you'll ever land before the foes block is 2, so start planning ahead. Hit twice, bail Block their counter, hit twice, rinse repeat. If there's 2 foes (unless it's a big fuck from the prison + something else) you should be okay trading hits. Also, don't be afraid to throw crap guys. Thrown chairs do a large amount of damage when unblocked (2 will down a screamer), and thrown rocks/bricks leave a good amount of time for you to either get away or get enough time to find a better weapon laying around. Three foes and either run or break out a gun. Honestly if you're three foes deep in a forced encounter (there's only two of them off the top of my head anyways) with no ammo at the end of the game I feel no sympathy for you as the game throws shotty ammo at you in this section, and one shotty blast should down a the big guys.
This reminds me a lot of the Arkham games, but in reverse. Arkham games have crappy singular foe encounters but good multiples due to the way the system is designed.
I think one problem with the combat is there are a lot of really really tight corridors where you run into enemies who are fast and aggressive. Between your weapon sometimes repelling off walls and sometimes getting trapped in corners or pushed against a wall while several enemies wail on you at once, it just seems all kinds of broken.
The combat works better when it's one on one and you have some breathing room. It's also easier to hit them and run in areas like that, whereas in some of the smaller corridors you literally CAN'T run past them because they are blocking your way.
pa22word, it's true that if you want to treat the combat like a technical action game with blocking and waiting for openings and countering etc..., it works and you can do really well since the AI is dumb. But, SH isn't a beat-em-up like Batman; so that kind of is besides the point. If you can just kill any enemy that shows up, where is the fear?
I didn't even know you could kill those big dudes from the final dungeon until I saw there was a trophy for killing 10 of them. I just assumed they were big, damaging, and invincible.
The combat works better when it's one on one and you have some breathing room. It's also easier to hit them and run in areas like that, whereas in some of the smaller corridors you literally CAN'T run past them because they are blocking your way.
pa22word, it's true that if you want to treat the combat like a technical action game with blocking and waiting for openings and countering etc..., it works and you can do really well since the AI is dumb. But, SH isn't a beat-em-up like Batman; so that kind of is besides the point. If you can just kill any enemy that shows up, where is the fear?
I didn't even know you could kill those big dudes from the final dungeon until I saw there was a trophy for killing 10 of them. I just assumed they were big, damaging, and invincible.
CadetMahoney
Member
That is true fear.
@Bebpo
It kinda my fault, as I was playing a load of Shinobi 3D and Ninja Gaiden prior to playing this game in an attempt to keep things fresh and prevent burnout....and the end result was I'm pretty sure I finished with by far the highest kill count here on gaf (near 100 with no guns used on normal).
But yeah, if anyone wants any tips I'll be glad to send help out as I spent a lot of time toying with the mechanics in an attempt to better understand the underlying combat design.
EDIT: Also, if anyone is having issues with the knife dudes just keep hitting them as once you land a first attack they'll pretty much never block and you can chain hits on them until the sun comes up.
It kinda my fault, as I was playing a load of Shinobi 3D and Ninja Gaiden prior to playing this game in an attempt to keep things fresh and prevent burnout....and the end result was I'm pretty sure I finished with by far the highest kill count here on gaf (near 100 with no guns used on normal).
But yeah, if anyone wants any tips I'll be glad to send help out as I spent a lot of time toying with the mechanics in an attempt to better understand the underlying combat design.
EDIT: Also, if anyone is having issues with the knife dudes just keep hitting them as once you land a first attack they'll pretty much never block and you can chain hits on them until the sun comes up.
Just watched all the other endings on youtube. The endings were pretty good! I actually like the story even more after seeing them all. The good ending is really satisfying and hits the right notes and "full circle" ending is a great BAD END. Surprise ending is awesome. They really did a good job with the story. Story itself and Story presentation is definitely the best post-Team Silent. And since Story is very important to these games, that's a good thing.
So about the mailman,
So about the mailman,
any ideas on deeper meaning to who character is besides just "the messenger"?
I woulddn't be surprised if he ended being the main villain of the resies, the true Samael, feeding from the fear of the souls trapped in the town.
RadioHeadAche
Member
Especially since Shadows of the Damned OST was him at his best again.
Roland Stiles
Member
Hey kiddos.
It turns out lots of the "SAVING" is in fact "LOADING"
Consider it a Czech misunderstanding.
It turns out lots of the "SAVING" is in fact "LOADING"
Consider it a Czech misunderstanding.
Before I played Homecoming, I remember everybody saying how horrible its combat was, but that was one of the parts of the game I actually thought wasn't too bad. So, I'm not totally sure why people hated the game's combat so much.
Then again, there are people in here talking as if SH4 was a good game, so there's all kinds of crazy opinions out there.
SlasherJPC
Banned
I replayed this about a month ago and I've always been a supporter of Homecoming, but the last stretch of it really turns into a action fest and the scares just stop coming. After the Scarlette fight it went downhill I think. Plus the overworld I thought was severely slacking in the fact that your never in it very long. The prison was a very missed oppotunity and of course then the end stuff. Though I still really enjoyed it and I like it better then origins, SM, and SH4.
Personally for me its SH2/SH DP/SH 1+3/ SH Homecoming/ SH4/SH SM/SH O but I've honestly enjoyed each game for different reasons. I don't hate any of them. Cept I do hate the burping enemies in SH4. MY GOD!!!!!
RadioHeadAche
Member
The one hiding in Eileen's hallway scared me every time.
TheDrowningMan
Member
Thought so!
Any news on a performance patch? I think that would help an already very enjoyable game quite a bit,
Acquiescence
Member
I never had too many issues at the
; not even on hard mode. I just generally ran past any enemies I encountered, and whenever I was faced with more than one I'd whip out my shotty and rearrange their faces. Honestly, the game is pretty generous by that stage - there's shotgun ammo all the place.
prison
Para bailar La Bomba
Banned
Thought you guys will be interested to know that the Zero Punctuation review will be out April 11. Yahtzee has said in the past that SH2 is one of his fave games of all-time, so I'm sure we'll get a real fan's perspective on it.
eXistor
Member
Wow, I think reviewers get paid to rate this one badly. I've played for about 4 hours now and it's obvious to me this is a return to form for the series. There are some glaring faults present though: the cartoonish enemies and shitty combat drain any tension from the game. Some terrible performance issues take you out of the game fairly consistently (excessive screen tearing, fog pop-in etc.). Also I think the sound design could have been a lot better. These kind of games can add so much through good use of sound, but they kinda dropped the ball on that one. Most sound effects sound extremely stock or out of place.
That said, the blueprint for this is rock-solid. Vatra clarly wants the player to find stuff out for themselves and I highly applaud them for this. I helps a great deal that the game is relatively open-ended as well. The puzzles may be a bit random but there's a lot of incentive to unravel these mysteries. It's a return to form for the survival-horror genre and given a bit more time/money this could have been a real classic. There's a few too many elements holding the game back or actively working against the game, but its (black) heart is squarely in the right place. A rough diamond, then.
That said, the blueprint for this is rock-solid. Vatra clarly wants the player to find stuff out for themselves and I highly applaud them for this. I helps a great deal that the game is relatively open-ended as well. The puzzles may be a bit random but there's a lot of incentive to unravel these mysteries. It's a return to form for the survival-horror genre and given a bit more time/money this could have been a real classic. There's a few too many elements holding the game back or actively working against the game, but its (black) heart is squarely in the right place. A rough diamond, then.
TheDrowningMan
Member
I think it's that most reviewers are kind of immature and get wrapped up in hyped titles to the point that they'll have effectively awarded them 9/10 before even playing. I do believe that on a level playing field you can add 10% to this game's Metascore; in a fair, balanced world, a 7 would be valid and meaningful, a decent score that Considers its good points and takes into account its flaws but a real world 7 is all too often a gaming world 8 or 9.
Of course publishers had been known to 'incentivise' too.
IGN not only gave the SH Collection 9/10, they gave it to the PS3 version without mentioning any of the flaws. They handed Downpour PS3 4.5/10.
Five hours into this.
This shouldn't have been a Silent Hill game. The atmosphere is great, especially in the side quests. However, it doesn't feel like SH. If they had rebranded this as something different it would do the game justice.
Also, the "PICK UP" thing sucks. Patch it so it at last says what you are picking up.
This shouldn't have been a Silent Hill game. The atmosphere is great, especially in the side quests. However, it doesn't feel like SH. If they had rebranded this as something different it would do the game justice.
Also, the "PICK UP" thing sucks. Patch it so it at last says what you are picking up.
LestradeTGQ
Neo Member
Thanks for all the impressions, folks. Hoping to picking this up in a week or so and dive in. If I have a choice, should I get the 360 version?
WiiredShawn
Member
Just wanted to say that after replaying SH3 in the HD Collection, the "main story" is less than two hours long if you know where you're going. It's incredibly short. Downpour is a little bit longer, but we managed to finish the main story in three hours. But it definitely shares some of that "economy," which is appreciated.
I agree with a lot of your points, though. In the ending where
Murphy killed Charlie
addyb
Member
I think I have real bad observation and exploration skills. I'm 38% in and just finished the centennial building section and haven't come across any side quests besides releasing some birds from cages and collecting some paintings. I've been told by postman pat I've to go to the orphanage next. Should I go there or backtrack to what I've missed? Don't know if I can be arsed going back if I've only missed the average side quests.
Shouldnt be. Are you at the highlighted ones? Because alot of them are just there for show.
Ganondorfo
Junior Member
The last section was so terrible in this game, and fighting that giant boss, wtf was with that?
The only parts that felt really like silent hill were the scenes when murphy was talking to that nun and that little kid, that felt like "twin peaks meets silent hill".
Also roaming in the silent hill town was also awesome. Too bad the chase sequences were average and fighting the enemies also felt hard.
What i wanted to ask, everytime you put the radio on, you hear some great instrumental silent hill music, were these composed by yamaoka and never released?
The only parts that felt really like silent hill were the scenes when murphy was talking to that nun and that little kid, that felt like "twin peaks meets silent hill".
Also roaming in the silent hill town was also awesome. Too bad the chase sequences were average and fighting the enemies also felt hard.
What i wanted to ask, everytime you put the radio on, you hear some great instrumental silent hill music, were these composed by yamaoka and never released?
I had the same thing. It seems like the ladders you can pull down (they flash with objects highlighted - on) will show the prompt and the cutscene the first time you find them and try it with the incorrect weapon. After that you won't get the prompt or cutscene of not being able to reach it unless you are holding the right weapon and then the prompt appears and the cutscene of murphy pulling it down happens.
addyb
Member
I must admit I'm not looking forward to the latter part of the game now that I'm reading plenty of people hate it and it's combat centric. I do not like the combat in this at all. I'm enjoying the game due to the atmosphere but I find myself battling against the things I hate. Its frustrating because the glitches can spoil the game for me just when I'm starting to enjoy it again. Now and then the game has pure flashes of brilliance and then shortly after some repetition kicks in so I'm constantly swaying between I like/don't like moods.
I'm disappointed survival horror isn't that popular with devs anymore. Resident evil left this from part 4, downpour is a step back to it but I clamour for more. Is there any other games out there that I may have missed on consoles/pc.
I'll be getting the SH collection after this despite its faults (it's the only option I have for playing these)
I'm disappointed survival horror isn't that popular with devs anymore. Resident evil left this from part 4, downpour is a step back to it but I clamour for more. Is there any other games out there that I may have missed on consoles/pc.
I'll be getting the SH collection after this despite its faults (it's the only option I have for playing these)
Your 2 paragraphs read like a 6/10 review.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
There are the two ObsCure games, Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth, the Siren series, the Fatal Frame series, Rule of Rose, Haunting Grounds, the Clock Tower series, Amnesia: The Dark Descent, Realms of the Haunting, The Thing, Cryostasis, Cold Fear, the first four Alone in the Dark games and the first two Penumbra games (the third one was, AFAIK, basically a first person puzzle game sort of thing).
TheDrowningMan
Member
Which would be fine if gaming churnalists haven't spent years fucking up by refusing to acknowledge performance in this age but not another & have made an 8/10 what a 6 should be because they go weak at the knees for heavily hyped titles.
Hmm, I haven't played the Bolded ones yet and I've only played Fatal Frame 1 (of that series). Which are the best of that bunch? I'm always up for good survival horror games.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
I haven't played the last four you bolded myself, but CoC: DCotE is great. Yeah, it's kinda clunky, and one mission in the PC version is so goddamn borked it's almost impossible to complete it without a noclip trainer, but it makes up for it in mood, setting and the insanity effect (somewhat similar to what Silicon Knights did in Eternal Darkness).
Just clocked the game tonight, didn't delve too much into the side missions as I rented it and wanted to beat it in time, finished it with ending D. Really felt like a slog towards the end, I wasn't enjoying the gameplay and the story sure as hell wasn't dragging me in.
Didn't feel like a silent hill game at all, the town itself just seemed like an abandoned town on a foggy day, there was no eery unsettling feeling about like in previous titles.
Hated the combat, it was slow, boring and cheap as hell. It felt like I'd been intentionally gimped just to give the game the authentic silent hill clunky combat feeling. There's nothing more frustrating that facing fast enemies when the controls prevent you from keeping up.
Didn't like the otherworld sections,
Encountered a hideous amount of stuttering whilst the environment was streaming; literally down to <1fps at some points. Tried playing with installing and without and it didn't seem to make much of a difference.
I was interested to see what the new audio composer could do but don't actually remember any songs apart from the ones on the radio? This was a massive let down as I remember the soundtracks of the previous games more readily than I do the actual gameplay.
Did like.. hmm well I guess it was more Silent Hill which is a good thing. The train sequence in devil's pit was kind of cool. Liked the random side quests dotted around the map. Apart from that, not much else. It's a 6/10 game for sure in my eyes.
Didn't feel like a silent hill game at all, the town itself just seemed like an abandoned town on a foggy day, there was no eery unsettling feeling about like in previous titles.
Hated the combat, it was slow, boring and cheap as hell. It felt like I'd been intentionally gimped just to give the game the authentic silent hill clunky combat feeling. There's nothing more frustrating that facing fast enemies when the controls prevent you from keeping up.
Didn't like the otherworld sections,
having the most iconic parts of the Silent Hill setting being basically reduced to a shitty chase sequence against an unexplained force really turned me off the game.
I was interested to see what the new audio composer could do but don't actually remember any songs apart from the ones on the radio? This was a massive let down as I remember the soundtracks of the previous games more readily than I do the actual gameplay.
Did like.. hmm well I guess it was more Silent Hill which is a good thing. The train sequence in devil's pit was kind of cool. Liked the random side quests dotted around the map. Apart from that, not much else. It's a 6/10 game for sure in my eyes.
The perfect Dark
Banned
I think it's that most reviewers are kind of immature and get wrapped up in hyped titles to the point that they'll have effectively awarded them 9/10 before even playing. I do believe that on a level playing field you can add 10% to this game's Metascore; in a fair, balanced world, a 7 would be valid and meaningful, a decent score that Considers its good points and takes into account its flaws but a real world 7 is all too often a gaming world 8 or 9.
Of course publishers had been known to 'incentivise' too.
IGN not only gave the SH Collection 9/10, they gave it to the PS3 version without mentioning any of the flaws. They handed Downpour PS3 4.5/10.
I would do the same. Even with 5 fps the HD Collection Games are masterpieces while Downpour and Homecoming are one of the worst horror games I've ever played.
Maybe some of you should replay the first three games to remember how good they really are.
RedAssedApe
Banned
I'd only award the title of masterpiece to Silent Hill 2. The other games only get raised up by association.
I was thinking about picking this up but I've decided not to bother after reading this thread.
I'm reminded of why I never finished 4 or Homecoming - god awful combat. I just haven't got the patience for it these days. Especially after playing a game like Condemned.
Thanks for the impressions here guys, you saved me £40.
I'm reminded of why I never finished 4 or Homecoming - god awful combat. I just haven't got the patience for it these days. Especially after playing a game like Condemned.
Thanks for the impressions here guys, you saved me £40.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
SH 1-3 are great, but the Magnavox Odyssey Downport Collection doesn't deserve more than 4/10, and that's only by giving SH2 and 3 two points each for still being awesome games. If you want to play the good versions of SH2 and 3, play the PS2/PC versions.
The perfect Dark
Banned
But the 360 Version of the HD Collection is great. I really don't know what's the problem here.
Yeah the water looks bad but that's it.
I finished Silent Hill 2 yesterday and played Silent Hill 3 for three hours.
No slowdowns
Dialogue is in sync (on both version, even SH 3 with new voices)
No crashes
No audio bugs
I don't understand the complaints at all.
It plays just fine
And I know and played the ps2 versions of the games.
TheDrowningMan
Member
Diminished or missing effects
Missing or incorrect music / sound effects
Massively washed out colour palette
Disgusting, clean new textures at random places
Silent Hill 3 in particular looks laughable minus the great self shadowing & depth of field. It also had some very bold colours which are rendered completely irrelevant here.
The 360 version 'plays' fine mechanically, but it's a vastly inferior - visually & sonically - pairing of decade old games, bad news for something that relies on such atmospherics to be truly worthwhile. That's an irrefutable fact.
Missing or incorrect music / sound effects
Massively washed out colour palette
Disgusting, clean new textures at random places
Silent Hill 3 in particular looks laughable minus the great self shadowing & depth of field. It also had some very bold colours which are rendered completely irrelevant here.
The 360 version 'plays' fine mechanically, but it's a vastly inferior - visually & sonically - pairing of decade old games, bad news for something that relies on such atmospherics to be truly worthwhile. That's an irrefutable fact.
TheDrowningMan
Member
If you want to play it, stick the combat on easy. I never, ever found the earlier SH games especislly difficult in that area, and this is certainly no easier on that setting than SH2 or 3 were on normal. It's much, much less frustrating than Homecoming, in my opinion.
I might suggest waiting for a patch / price cut if technical shakiness will bother you, but it weaves a good tale & has a strong atmosphere.
The perfect Dark
Banned
I honestly think you're overexaggerating
I never noticed any differences (except for the water and fog in the cutscenes). The atmosphere is the same (like in the originals), the graphics are updated to HD (looks awesome).
I still shit my pants and can't play both games alone at night
While playing Homecoming I had a smile on my face and i finished this game alone at night...so...there's something wrong with the new games...
I never noticed any differences (except for the water and fog in the cutscenes). The atmosphere is the same (like in the originals), the graphics are updated to HD (looks awesome).
I still shit my pants and can't play both games alone at night
While playing Homecoming I had a smile on my face and i finished this game alone at night...so...there's something wrong with the new games...
TheDrowningMan
Member
You REALLY didn't notice the missing shadowing / DoF in SH3 at least? Or the foghorn in SH2? Or that the fog is at least scaled back / simplified through the entire game, even when present?
I'm not trying to stop you enjoying the games, by the way. But these issues exist and these games - and their fans - deserve versions that can be considered something close to definitive.
I'm not trying to stop you enjoying the games, by the way. But these issues exist and these games - and their fans - deserve versions that can be considered something close to definitive.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
I honestly think you're overexaggerating
I never noticed any differences (except for the water and fog in the cutscenes). The atmosphere is the same (like in the originals), the graphics are updated to HD (looks awesome).
I still shit my pants and can't play both games alone at night
While playing Homecoming I had a smile on my face and i finished this game alone at night...so...there's something wrong with the new games...
You must be a masochist
SlasherJPC
Banned
Well I can say the mixed views on this title, this games right on par with being another Love it/Hate it Silent Hill game. The only one most seem to agree on is Silent Hill 1,2,and 3. All bets are off considering which other games "feel" like Silent Hill. Etc.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
Honestly speaking I think some people are blowing the Prison out of proportion. I actually thought the second half of the game was stronger. In big part since the coolest side-quests open up once you finish the second main area, and the Monastery is my favorite location in the game.
The Prison really didn't have that many enemies, I have no idea why people are saying this. The only part I would understand is the elevator section, and even that doesn't last long and the game is basically throwing you shotgun ammo during this stage.
I didn't like their designs much either, but there's only a few monsters in the first half of the Prison, and there's no monsters you even need to fight in the second half besides the final boss. The only section that might count is the elevator, and even then it's more than possible to get through that without even killing an enemy.
I also see the love it/hate it thing, but it makes me a bit sad I'll be honest. In my opinion I enjoyed the game quite a bit, and am a bit iffy so many critics are reviewing what almost sounds like a different game than I played.
The Prison really didn't have that many enemies, I have no idea why people are saying this. The only part I would understand is the elevator section, and even that doesn't last long and the game is basically throwing you shotgun ammo during this stage.
I didn't like their designs much either, but there's only a few monsters in the first half of the Prison, and there's no monsters you even need to fight in the second half besides the final boss. The only section that might count is the elevator, and even then it's more than possible to get through that without even killing an enemy.
I also see the love it/hate it thing, but it makes me a bit sad I'll be honest. In my opinion I enjoyed the game quite a bit, and am a bit iffy so many critics are reviewing what almost sounds like a different game than I played.
Getting this game here is a sick joke. As I posted before. I went to a local store the other day and was told they had it in stock for both consoles, but that they had orders not to sell it until Monday. So I went around an hour ago to pick it up, and they told me there's a problem with the delivery and they wont have it until Thursday at the earliest. So I'm not sure what's going on. But I'm pretty sure I was lied to before.
Sigh.
EDIT: I also notice Amazon.co.uk doesn't actually supply the game. Only amazon sellers are selling it. What is going on with this game in the UK.
EDIT2: Ok. I've now called around a load of Xtra-Vision, HMV and Toys R Us stores, and all say there's been a supply problem. I've also noticed now Amazon.co.uk and Play.com don't actually stock the game.
Sigh.
EDIT: I also notice Amazon.co.uk doesn't actually supply the game. Only amazon sellers are selling it. What is going on with this game in the UK.
EDIT2: Ok. I've now called around a load of Xtra-Vision, HMV and Toys R Us stores, and all say there's been a supply problem. I've also noticed now Amazon.co.uk and Play.com don't actually stock the game.
Acquiescence
Member
Are you in the UK? If so, you can order via ShopTo and you'll get the game through the letterbox tomorrow, free delivery.
SlasherJPC
Banned
Pretty much my thoughts. I honestly feel alot of people just don't have as much patients as gamers did back in the day. Not really a knock, but it just feels like now adays everything is spoon fed to the gamers. For example the light line in Dead Space.. Some people love that DP opens up to the town, but others find the game boring and slow due to that very thing and because the game doesn't exactly hold your hand.
As I've said before and I'll say again. Played on hard. Avoided most enemies in last area, and had more then enough to handle the final elevator sequence. So yeah... I just hope anyone on the fence, at least tries this at a friends house, rents it, or gives it a shot when its cheaper. I think most will be pleasently surprised and I won't doubt we get a LTTP Silent Hill Downpour thread a few months from now with someone saying how the reviews were wrong for this.