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Slim PS3 ...good fake or...
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Doctor_No said:Possibility of PS2 backwards compatibility coming soon?
Sony patents on July 30th 2009 technology to emulate the "Graphics Synthesizer" on the PS2 using the Cell & RSX:
Previously there was a patent to emulate the "Emotion Engine", however this new patent demonstrates a method to emulate both EE and GS.
Link with more pictures:
http://gigazine.net/index.php?/news/comments/20090803_ps2_on_ps3/
Patent directory:
http://www6.ipdl.inpit.go.jp/Tokujitu/tjsogodb.ipdl?N0000=101
the patent ID is 「文献種別：A、文献番号：2009-527836」
[PDF] Link: http://www23.ipdl.inpit.go.jp/PDF/display/JPA_2009527836.pdf?id=9986
Baloonatic
Member
Sorry for a slight derail, but I can buy PS1 games from the American PSN and play them on my PAL PS3 right?
Baloonatic
Member
zoku88 said:
I'm not really sure, I thought that was only before we had 60Hz televisions over here? There must be someone who can give a definitive answer though.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
Baloonatic said:
i don't think it makes a difference. i once got syphon filter from the us store (qore gift) and i have a pal ps3, and i can play it just fine at any resolution (ps3 hooked up via hdmi, don't know if it makes a difference)
I have a 60gb ps3, but god I'm praying so much for this to be true, because if it is... it's one step closer to full ps2 games on the psn and BC in true 1080p, nothing really to back up that dream (only freaking logic), but a guy can dream right?:lol *goes on imagining ico in a non shitty resolution*
SolidusDave
Member
Machado said:
meh, I want different colors before I would even consider buying this overpriced thing.
fancy colors like this one:
Gamecocks625
Member
SolidusDave said:meh, I want different colors before I would even consider buying this overpriced thing.
fancy colors like this one:
you must be a girlz
androvsky said:
If you link to it I will, but a good patent won't be too specific anyway..
The bigger giveaway is that this patent, nor any previous AFAIK, really doesn't address GS emulation as far as I can see. They seem to be more concerned with EE emu and then leave a blank when it comes to GS, presuming that it's magically handled... (and the only way it could be magically handled without need for further explanation is with a GS chip in there
)
user friendly
Member
Baloonatic
Member
buffi said:If you have a HDTV then yes, without any issues whatsoever. If you have an SDTV then you are probably poor and I feel sorry for you
Thanks a lot. I actually use my PC monitor for HD gaming so I guess that should be ok as well.
CrayzeeCarl
Member
:loluser friendly said:
At least they acknowledged that the Amazon link had "questionable" user-uploaded photos.
lybertyboy
Thinks the Evil Empire is just misunderstood.
user friendly said:
Did you read the story?
In it they mention that the image is fan created rather than an official picture.
SolidusDave
Member
spwolf said:
btw. , the PS3 has it not integrated like the way the 360 will have it, but could Sony not counter these new features by just saying "yeah well, PS3 has an internetbrowser, you can login to facebook, twiiter whatever since launch"
or does it count, that the Watchmen BD has FB-support via BDLive? :lol
and I was just kidding about that color, urgs D:
though I have to say - and considering it is pink- it looks kinda neat ^^
user friendly
Member
Yeah I read it. They still make it sound as if amazon leaked it by mistake.lybertyboy said:
gofreak said:Hmmm. Looking at that more I'm totally not convinced that this patent is suggesting GS emulation, as far as I can tell from machine translations at least.
This is the machine translation of the description of the above diagram:
SPE1110A IPU118
SPE1110B Emotion Engine CPU102 and vector unit 0
SPE1110C VIF0, VIF1, GIF110
SPE1110D vector unit 1
SPE1110E GS200 (that is, partial;SPE1110G [ peculiar to PS2 ] takes an interface with the emulation side graphics controller (not shown) again about the graphics operation which is not peculiar to PS2 among operations of GS200)
SPE1110F Although not generally used, in order to reduce the load of one thread of above-mentioned PPE1150, a code can be recompiled and the vector unit 1 can be emulated.
SPE1110G SPU300
SPE1110H IOP700 and SIF122
It's pretty much entirely concerned with EE emulation on Cell. There's no talk about how they'd emulate GS. The SPE1110E GS200 bit is just relating to an interface from CPU to a graphics chip, but not emulation of the graphics chip itself, I think.
That's what the article is saying, not the patent... I'm wondering if the article authors picked it up wrong.
So I've had a little time to read the patent, and while this is not my area of technical expertise, I'll try to at least clear up some of the language you presented from the part you quoted (which is from the PDF).
The PPU(PPE1150) is loaded with an emulation OS. The SPE of the cell are numbered SPE1110A-SPE1110H within this patent. There are 8-cores, 6 of them that seem to be in direct use, and 1 which is reserved for the OS(SPE1110G), 1-core is unusable.
Each SPE is designated an emulator "task". The "Graphics Synthesizer" GS200 is designated to SPE1110E and works in conjunction with the RSX. SPE1110E only does graphics unique to the PS2, non-PS2 graphics calculations are passed to SPE1110G via the emulators graphics controller (not shown within this patent). Being that SPPE1110G is likely the SPE designated to the OS, the non-PS2 graphics is likely referring to the XMB.
Again, I'm not the best person to cover technical information, but the language of the patent seems to suggest that SPE is emulating the GS200 portion of the GS; any machinations beyond that is not explained (possibly another patent). Nor does the patent discuss how the SPE works with the RSX. But overall the language is consistent with Gigazine's story.
Diagram of SPEs being referenced to:
gofreak said:If you link to it I will, but a good patent won't be too specific anyway..
The bigger giveaway is that this patent, nor any previous AFAIK, really doesn't address GS emulation as far as I can see. They seem to be more concerned with EE emu and then leave a blank when it comes to GS, presuming that it's magically handled... (and the only way it could be magically handled without need for further explanation is with a GS chip in there
http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-..."emotion+engine"&RS=sony+AND+"emotion+engine"
I don't have the images in front of me at the moment (lack of browser plugin for tiffs), but as I recall GPU 222 doesn't refer to the GS. To me, this sounds like two different rendering methods; one pure software on the Cell for difficult games with a lot of special effects that don't translate well to the RSX, and another for games that do run well on the RSX.
sloppyjoe_gamer
Gold Member
matticus said:
If were talking about the same 80GB units....theres a (i believe) an 80 GB out there that has limited PS2 BC, that is NOT the same as the 80 GB (non PS2 BC units) that are being sold now.
I bought a new 80 GB unit back in June, and the thing is super silent, and runs very cool.
If you're comparing THAT model to your launch 60GB and the 60 GB is quiter, well....you might want to check with Sony since that simply shouldnt be the case. The new units have less components on the inside, have the 65 nm chips, and better heatsink fan system.
H_Prestige
Banned
Make it happen Sony.
KZObsessed
Member
£260 no thanx.
honeymustardn
Member
I'd pay good money for a PS2 emulator on PS3. Very good money!
androvsky said:
I remember this patent, the main thrust of it seems to refer to CPU emu... references to GS or graphics emu seems always to be periphery in these patents, and just there so that the patent casts as broad a net as possible in terms of potential embodiments, and to fill in the broader context of what's being discussed (usually, chiefly, EE stuff).
There hasn't yet been, IMO, indication from these patents that they've really yet cracked the problem of GS emu vs EE emu. Many of them are also so old now...if this work did refer to actual implementations more than potential embodiments on the gpu side, it's a wonder there's been no sign of it yet.
StealthGoblin
Banned
If this GS emulation and EE emulation does make its way into all PS3's via FW update, I suspect it will only be for titles bought from the Playstation Store. Sony will make to make money from the venture.
Galvanise_ said:
I *could* be ok with it if they:
1.-released god of war series (yes, even the psp one), Shadow of the colossus, ico, Need for speed most wanted and some good rpgs
2.- the released those games at 19.99 or less
3.-they allowed me to download that emulator for free
H_Prestige
Banned
Galvanise_ said:
If that were the case then why does Sony allow us to put our ps1 discs into a ps3 and play them? They would only allow us to buy the ps1 games they have on the store. Any ps2 emulation would work the same way, even if the compatibility were not as comprehensive.
I can't imagine having people 'port' select ps2 titles to the ps3 just to sell them on the store is very profitable. FFVII is a lot more popular than pretty much every ps2 game and it didn't sell that much. But at least it's pure profit since there's no work involved in putting it on the ps3.
StealthGoblin
Banned
H_Prestige said:
That logic is all well and good, but this is Sony, and sometimes they do some illogical things. I'm not fussed either way, as I have a BC PS3. I don't know the ins and outs in these alleged EE and GS emulation methods, but if the games do need to be slightly modified to run on the PS3, they will of course have to be downloaded from the Playstation Store. If they don't need to be modified in any way, I don't see why any logical company would stop people from running their disc based PS2 games on the PS3.
We'll just have to see how it plays out, I guess.
DangerousDave
Member
honeymustardn said:
If they made some kind of "emulation box", connected by USB (something like the Play TV), that bring retrocompatibility for PS3 (by hardware), I would buy it day 1.
sadaiyappan
Member
I think USB is too slow for something like that..
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