InaSnowBoundLand
Member
I would pick K. Rool and Banjo & Kazooie.
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Smash Wii U & 3DS Downloadable Characters Discussion and Information on Smash Ballot
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
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Shadow the hedgehog and Ashley.
...Not even choosing characters from the list. Not sure if on purpose, or failure.
TheDinoman
Member
Popularity =/= Importance though.
Green Mamba
Member
Wario himself was demoted from the default cast to secret character and there was only one new Wario remix created and it didn't even make it overseas. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Correct. Sakurai commented that he don't picked characters based on popularity. He also cited that he look into characters that would bring uniqueness and bring something new to the table. Like Rosalina, Duck Hunt, Shulk and Bowser Jr.
Importance isn't that much of a factor, to be fair
balladofwindfishes
Member
tbh, I wish more characters were either kept secret or "demoted" to secret. Notably, Metaknight, Toon Link and Lucario just sort of feel "tacked on" to the starting roster, along with Ganondorf and Jigglypuff who have no real reason to be starters on the Wii U. Metaknight was shown so late, I honestly thought he was going to be a secret character.
Only Falcon, Ness, Marth, and Luigi should have been "upgraded" to starter. Marth had no business remaining unlockable in Brawl. Lucario and Toon Link should have remained unlocks, and Metaknight should have been unlockable. Along with keeping all the 3DS unlocks as unlocks on the Wii U.
I like unlockable characters though, I know a lot of people don't. But, at most, the Smash 4 3DS roster takes like an hour to unlock if you grind it. I like doing it the "proper" way though.
I have a feeling this might be the last Smash game with unlockable characters though.
Surprisingly, there aren't that many non-clone or non-derivative characters in Smash Bros. from already represented franchises.
Bowser, Peach, Zelda, Mewtwo, Charizard (formerly Pokémon Trainer), Diddy Kong, Dedede, and Meta Knight need no explanation. They're longstanding, focal characters from some of Nintendo's biggest franchises.
Rosalina has a major story presence in Super Mario Galaxy, which was a critical and commercial success. Her moveset represents the essence of the Galaxy games. Together with Luma, she's essentially the "mascot" of Super Mario Galaxy, serving as its representative in Super Mario 3D World and a bunch of spinoffs.
Bowser Jr. is a major antagonist in Super Mario Sunshine, New Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Galaxy, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Super Mario Galaxy 2, and New Super Mario Bros. U. He's the second most important villain in Nintendo's flagship series -- he's a major character.
Sheik was originally included as a transformation of Zelda right after Ocarina of Time set the world on fire. She's not a singularly important character right now, but the context of her introduction as a newcomer in Melee made sense.
Similarly, Zero Suit Samus was originally included as a transformation of Samus. She's a secondary representation of Metroid's protagonist.
Jigglypuff isn't particularly important, but she was incredibly popular in Japan during the development of Smash 64, and Sakurai wanted to include a joke character. Plus... she's a Pokémon, which is inherently a big deal. She was also built using Kirby as a foundation -- she's not technically a clone, but she's not a high priority character either.
Lucario and Greninja represent Diamond/Pearl and X/Y respectively, and they are also their generation's most popular new Pokémon.
Ike is the protagonist of Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn, and Robin is the co-protagonist of Awakening.
Palutena is the series' titular character in Japan ("Mirror of Palutena"), and she's the second most prominent character in Uprising behind Pit.
I really can't see someone like Ashley being included. She wouldn't work as a clone/semi-clone, and she doesn't play an important enough role in her series to warrant a unique moveset. Assist Trophies exist precisely for characters in her position.
Bowser, Peach, Zelda, Mewtwo, Charizard (formerly Pokémon Trainer), Diddy Kong, Dedede, and Meta Knight need no explanation. They're longstanding, focal characters from some of Nintendo's biggest franchises.
Rosalina has a major story presence in Super Mario Galaxy, which was a critical and commercial success. Her moveset represents the essence of the Galaxy games. Together with Luma, she's essentially the "mascot" of Super Mario Galaxy, serving as its representative in Super Mario 3D World and a bunch of spinoffs.
Bowser Jr. is a major antagonist in Super Mario Sunshine, New Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Galaxy, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Super Mario Galaxy 2, and New Super Mario Bros. U. He's the second most important villain in Nintendo's flagship series -- he's a major character.
Sheik was originally included as a transformation of Zelda right after Ocarina of Time set the world on fire. She's not a singularly important character right now, but the context of her introduction as a newcomer in Melee made sense.
Similarly, Zero Suit Samus was originally included as a transformation of Samus. She's a secondary representation of Metroid's protagonist.
Jigglypuff isn't particularly important, but she was incredibly popular in Japan during the development of Smash 64, and Sakurai wanted to include a joke character. Plus... she's a Pokémon, which is inherently a big deal. She was also built using Kirby as a foundation -- she's not technically a clone, but she's not a high priority character either.
Lucario and Greninja represent Diamond/Pearl and X/Y respectively, and they are also their generation's most popular new Pokémon.
Ike is the protagonist of Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn, and Robin is the co-protagonist of Awakening.
Palutena is the series' titular character in Japan ("Mirror of Palutena"), and she's the second most prominent character in Uprising behind Pit.
I really can't see someone like Ashley being included. She wouldn't work as a clone/semi-clone, and she doesn't play an important enough role in her series to warrant a unique moveset. Assist Trophies exist precisely for characters in her position.
Green Mamba
Member
They removed Wario's shoulder bash for chrissake.
Red Arremer
Member
I would also argue that Nintendo has been pushing Bowser Jr. and especially Rosalina to become faces of the Mario franchise in the past few years. So their inclusion should come to no surprise.
Wasn't it more because Sakurai wanted a flying character rather than a joke one? The only character I specifically remember having the connotations of being a joke character is Pichu.
Fixing the list. List has bayo on it
On the Smash 64 site Sakurai called Jigglypuff "intentionally weak," and on the Melee site he said something along the lines of, "Pichu is this game's joke character, taking over Jigglypuff's role from the first game."
PadWarrior
Member
How many off you guys thought thought that this game would be pushing 60 fighters when it first was announced? I still can't believe it lol
Red Arremer
Member
Fair enough.
I always thought we'd get a big jump like we did in every game. People just interpreted Sakurai's "We can't just add more fighters and call it a day" quote to mean that we wouldn't get a lot newcomers and lots of cuts.
DLC was both a surprise and not entirely unexpected.
RomanceDawn
Member
I remember telling people we would be getting over 50 or 55 for sure. That was around when many thought Gematsu would be all we had left. I just figured if they didn't know about Rosalina then there is probably more they don't know about. I never would have guessed we would have gotten near the 60 man mark though!
How many are there now?
...-using Witch?
Seriously, though. We already had Snake in terms of "family-unfriendly characters," and Nintendo paid out of pocket to make Bayonetta 2 happen. Even if she doesn't scream "Nintendo," I think she's relevant enough to the company to justify being in the game. Unless SE's also planning on porting the FFVII remake to the NX, she's significantly more relevant than Cloud has ever been. I'd say she deserves to be on that list, and picking her over Wonder Red for my vote was like picking between children. Or probably more like something less hyperbolic, but it was still a tough choice.
TheDinoman
Member
That's really bizarre because Jigglypuff didn't end up being the worst in the game or even that low tier. She's currently 6th on Smash 64's tier list, right in the middle.
So his intended joke character ended up being actually pretty decent in the long run lol. Just goes to show how strange Sakurai can be when it comes to balance.
Red Arremer
Member
The base game has 48 named characters and 3 Mii fighters for a total of 51.
Counting Cloud, we have 5 additional confirmed DLC characters, bringing us to 56.
The only game in which Jigglypuff is outright bad is Brawl. In Melee she's very good, in 64 and 4 she seems to be in the middle.
balladofwindfishes
Member
56, counting Cloud.
TheDinoman
Member
Actually she's pretty bad in Smash 4, lol.
Red Arremer
Member
She is? I thought she was somewhere in the middle of the roster. Haven't been really keeping up with Smash 4 meta though.
Karsticles
Member
Jiggs is pure trash. ESAM put her in bottom 5, and I completely agree with that. Absolutely awful, but she is easy to fix. Two small changes would make her solid again:
Rest KOs earlier and always stars.
Aerial hitboxes increased significantly.
You forgot her automatic shield break death, a game mechanic that's suppose to be a gag but stopped being funny after more than a decade later.
Karsticles
Member
A non-issue, really. Though Yoshi shouldn't have more aerial mobility than her and the best shield in the game.
Geminosity
Member
Nintendo seems to have pretty much made her their Halloween mascot. She was 'important' enough to recieve a bevvy of stickers, a costume in mariomaker, a 3DS theme and a webcomic. Sakurai obviously felt she was notable enough to make Assist Trophy even before all that and as Little Mac proves, the line between that and playable isn't all that thick sometimes.
As usual I don't put any stock in all this relevance/importance nonsese because we have zero-suit samus: we already had samus herself in the game and the zero-suit version was just a small part of one metroid game. Sakurai just puts whoever the heck he wants in, so if he wanted to boost someone from AT he could and will. If he doesn't, he wont. We can make all kinds of special pardons for Jigglypuff but the simple fact is that she's in and she's arguably not even Ashley tier
Someone predict a character that no one seems to be guessing.
Someone predict a character that might have a chance, but isn't one of the following:
- Inklings
- Snake
- Wolf
- Ice Climbers
- Squirtle
- Ivysaur
- Pichu
- Banjo-Kazooie
- King K. Rool
- Dixie Kong
I feel like we're all about to be Sakurai'd again. None of us saw Cloud coming. None of us would've seen Ryu coming, if it weren't for the leak. I think Roy was also a surprise for many people (again, before the leak). Lucas, too.
We need to predict Sakurai by predicting what we wouldn't predict.
So maybe... Ridley, because Sakurai said he's not possible and we've all convinced ourselves he's not possible.
Or maybe... Layton? Phoenix Wright? Both popular characters that have frequented Nintendo platforms.
Or perhaps... I dunno, a Yokai Watch character since it's apparently popular in Japan?
Or... Or maybe... Ah, my head hurts.
Someone predict a character that might have a chance, but isn't one of the following:
- Inklings
- Snake
- Wolf
- Ice Climbers
- Squirtle
- Ivysaur
- Pichu
- Banjo-Kazooie
- King K. Rool
- Dixie Kong
I feel like we're all about to be Sakurai'd again. None of us saw Cloud coming. None of us would've seen Ryu coming, if it weren't for the leak. I think Roy was also a surprise for many people (again, before the leak). Lucas, too.
We need to predict Sakurai by predicting what we wouldn't predict.
So maybe... Ridley, because Sakurai said he's not possible and we've all convinced ourselves he's not possible.
Or maybe... Layton? Phoenix Wright? Both popular characters that have frequented Nintendo platforms.
Or perhaps... I dunno, a Yokai Watch character since it's apparently popular in Japan?
Or... Or maybe... Ah, my head hurts.
UglyRareCharacter
Member
Maybe Sakurai can surprise us by doing what we want this one time!
Geminosity
Member
Ok... here's some totally out there ones that few are seriously guessing then. May not be entirely serious with some of these though :3
Wanda (Wario's Woods)
She's the main character that you control to manipulate the environment and get Mario and co to safety.
Bub & Bob (Bubble Bobble)
Main characters of the fairly well known arcade classic Bubble Bobble.
Marcus Phoenix (Gears of War series)
All around are familiar faces, worn out places, worn out faces...
Creeper (Minecraft)
One of the more iconic enemies from the minecraft series. That's a niccccce bassssse you've got there... shame if sssssomething were to happen to it :3
Master Chief (Halo)
No introduction needed
Nights (Nights into Dreams)
Main character from one of Sega's more unusual offerings
Geminosity
Member
Heh.
What do you think people's reaction would be if they added Lemmings?
It was on the NES and SNES after all (among many other platforms) :3
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Lemmings is owned by Sony now tho
A second fighting game character! So, like, Terry Bogard, Akira, or Scorpion. I mean, I guess Nintendo's pretty tight with Koei Tecmo these days, and there's a Dead or Alive game on Nintendo consoles. Maybe we'll get their Ryu?
It can't be a character from a Namco fighting game; that'd be too easy. Hell, maybe Virtua Fighter was too obvious of a guess for SEGA. I mean, they're sitting on Eternal Champions after all...
KelpPlankton
Member
The best Cloud level "woah no way omg how" inclusion would have to be Scorpion from Mortal Kombat. You can make him work without the gore because he's got the iconic spear and fire moves, which already have a presence in the game. His teleporting would be rad too. Would it be weird? Yeah. Do I want a Scorpion Amiibo? Yeah
I can't think of anyone else who could be that unexpected without being a Sony or Microsoft character, while still being high profile enough to make sense
I can't think of anyone else who could be that unexpected without being a Sony or Microsoft character, while still being high profile enough to make sense
An out there character?
An assassin from Assassin's Creed. Miyamoto apparently liked the game and character.
Subzero, Scorpion or Liu Kang from Mortal Kombat. Huge series, has games on Nintendo systems, and was a huge factor in gaming overall with censorship.
The main character from Doom. Another big series, has seen a Nintendo entry.
Lara Croft. One of the first female protagonists that wasn't in a suit like Samus.
A soldier from Call of Duty. Probably one of the main characters from a title could help.
A Sims character. Maybe called Sims and similar to villager with alts.
Maybe something with Oregon Trail? A staple of gaming from a lot of people's childhoods in the 90s.
Speaking of, Earthworm Jim or Gex. The latter actually having decent sales that beat a lot of series.
Pitfall Harry or Dig Dug for classic characters.
And I just found out if we want to get an indie character, it might be from Trine. The series is bigger than I thought and the 3 characters in one mechanic would have to come back.
An assassin from Assassin's Creed. Miyamoto apparently liked the game and character.
Subzero, Scorpion or Liu Kang from Mortal Kombat. Huge series, has games on Nintendo systems, and was a huge factor in gaming overall with censorship.
The main character from Doom. Another big series, has seen a Nintendo entry.
Lara Croft. One of the first female protagonists that wasn't in a suit like Samus.
A soldier from Call of Duty. Probably one of the main characters from a title could help.
A Sims character. Maybe called Sims and similar to villager with alts.
Maybe something with Oregon Trail? A staple of gaming from a lot of people's childhoods in the 90s.
Speaking of, Earthworm Jim or Gex. The latter actually having decent sales that beat a lot of series.
Pitfall Harry or Dig Dug for classic characters.
And I just found out if we want to get an indie character, it might be from Trine. The series is bigger than I thought and the 3 characters in one mechanic would have to come back.
There were people in early Smash 4 speculation threads claiming that this game would have fewer characters than Brawl because Sakurai said he didn't *only* want to add new characters in the sequel. I knew they'd be wrong but I never imagined we would get this many. I thought 4 was the upper limit of DLC characters to be honest, back when Mewtwo was announced. Now its looking like at least 7.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
i'd want a digimon
Masked Man
I said wow
Give me the Prince from Katamari Damacy!
Geminosity
Member
Sakurai really liked Fallout 3, and while Cloud's technically been on a Nintendo platform before, I think to say that the boundaries aren't necessary important anymore. So how about Vault Boy?
Realistically, I think Cloud's a big shock so I'd be surprised if whoever's up next is too. But Sakurai's fucking great at surprised so who knows.
woopWOOP
Member
Sukapon or however you spell that name
Japanese folk been requesting that one since Melee
Since it's Sakurai's 'last' Smash project he'll be like 'Fine, here, here's your dumb pink floaty robot already'
Even if Konami won't license Snake or a Castlevania character, maybe they'll approach Nintendo to include Pyramid Head for some unfathomable reason. He's a fairly prominent icon, and he's got as much of a tie to Nintendo hardware as Cloud. It'd also help assuage fan concerns that the roster lacks sword users.
Masked Man
I said wow
The Joy Mech Robot soundtrack is AMAZING, so I would be totally down for Sukapon in Smash if it meant we got music from that game!
I'd count it with Arcana in terms of obscure Nintendo games which desperately need some musical representation in Smash. Though it'd stand to benefit quite a bit more from being remixed.
-E. Gadd (Luigi's Mansion)
-Bulborb (Pikmin)
-Shy Guy in a Mario Kart (Mario Kart)
-Monita (Nintendo Land)
-Plum (Mario Golf)
-Nikki (Swapnote): She would stand in the background a-la Pokemon Trainer and control a 2 dimensional pictoman (frames drawn earlier by the player) via her 3DS. Not usable online for obvious reasons.
-Mary O. (Super Mario Maker)
-Linkle (Hyrule Warriors)
Red Arremer
Member
I believe you're being facetious here, but in case you're not: Even if they did, I sincerely doubt he would make it into Smash. Silent Hill does not belong.
I'm not actually expecting him to be chosen, but it's not like he'd be completely incompatible with Smash Bros.' aesthetics. He wasn't that out of place in Konami Krazy Racers or New International Track and Field, after all.
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