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SNES Game Collecting (Tips, discussion, and info for like minded collectors)
- Thread starter DidntKnowJack
- Start date
Is there any information on why Nintendo of America changed the console design? I know for the NES they intentionally wanted to distance themselves from the "video game" branding due to the stigma from the crash, so they made it look more like a VCR. But that stigma was long gone when the SNES came out.
It's nice to see some development in software for SNES music. It's been woefully neglected compared to most other systems.
It's nice to see some development in software for SNES music. It's been woefully neglected compared to most other systems.
Chittagong
Gold Member
I think the reason is that they had already established a proven industrial design team that integrated with their branding and packaging. That era features incredibly holistic design - the Super NES visual language is consistent from logotype and artwork to shapes of physical objects. I believe that the fact that Super Famicom was a different brand from Super NES made it obvious to them that a different industrial design was required.
The big mystery to me is how the PAL version of Super NES ended up taking the Super Famicom industrial design and a mishmash of Super Famicom branding (four colourful dots) and Super NES branding (logotype, black packaging, typography).
D.Lo
Member
Yes, you have to hand it to Nintendo America for consistency of the boxes.
The US controller design added one small piece of utility - the convex/concave button combo, allowing you to tell which buttons were which by feel. But by going with the horrid lavender buttons it also lost the utility of being able to communicate buttons in-game by colour, which some games did.
Also, by changing the plastic color to a bluey-grey, they made the system that turns yellow in the most ugly way of any major system. Even white consoles don't yellow in as ugly a fashion.
There was an interview by the SNES (and NES) designer where he said the SF looked like a 'bag of bread' link. It was apparently also designed to be a shape you couldn't rest a drink on, as Nintendo got too many returned NESes with drinks spilled in them. Still, it's just such a bizarrely designed system. Even forgetting the lego look, the ruffled ridges on the bottom, what was up with that? NCL were clearly not impressed ultimately and took all design back in-house after that.
I think it's pretty obvious for PAL they realised the SNES name was good, but the design was a dog. PAL systems are literally the same case as Japan, just with different printing, so it was likely cheaper too.
PAL 'black packaging' didn't happen, boxes were all sorts of colours. There was a standard black stripe on the packaging (not in all games) and some similar spacings, that's it. Konami even kept up their silver boxed in PAL for about half the system's life (and even after that maintained the same design, just with other colours).
I bought a Super Famicom earlier, no more messing about with an import adapter for me (apart from the few US games I've got). Hopefully the copy of Goemon 4 I got will work now, too, seeing how it's the main reason I got it.
Are the SFC games I've already got/played going to seem a lot faster? I'm not sure if I'll like the difference
Are the SFC games I've already got/played going to seem a lot faster? I'm not sure if I'll like the difference
So I found out today that there is a Nintendo kids reviewers program where parents can sign up their kids, and they get free games / systems / promo stuff. Wish they had something like that back in the day...but its nice for kids today who can participate.
You never needed an adapter in the first place if you were on a NA SNES. Break the tabs inside and bam, multiregional system with no problems.
I bought a Super Famicom earlier, no more messing about with an import adapter for me (apart from the few US games I've got). Hopefully the copy of Goemon 4 I got will work now, too, seeing how it's the main reason I got it.
Are the SFC games I've already got/played going to seem a lot faster? I'm not sure if I'll like the difference
You never needed an adapter in the first place if you were on a NA SNES. Break the tabs inside and bam, multiregional system with no problems.
Yep I know that trick, but I have a PAL SNES.
Tonight's going to be a fun one. Traded in a few PS3 games I no longer needed and some Wii doubles I had for a very respectable amount of store credit at my local Disc Traders (love those guys). After the credit I paid about 70 for everything pictured.
Can't wait to play Lufia.
You'll be fine without a guide. Maybe use a guide on a 2nd walkthrough. It's relatively straight forward and you can't really mess anything up.
sixteen-bit
Member
lol
AzureTranquility95
Banned
Wonder what's inside... oh, a copy of Madden SNES?
Brock_Landers
Member
Is that "Playtronic" Dracula X from Brazil or something?
Had a pretty decent find this weekend at a re-seller; Adventures of Kid Kleats for $10. They also had a Top Gear 3000 in the commons area, but the label was a bit rough, and there was no price so I just assumed they'd price check it at checkout and didn't bother.
Had a pretty decent find this weekend at a re-seller; Adventures of Kid Kleats for $10. They also had a Top Gear 3000 in the commons area, but the label was a bit rough, and there was no price so I just assumed they'd price check it at checkout and didn't bother.
RadarScope1
Member
Nice haul. Those are pretty decent prices for retail to begin with - even better with your credit.
I was at a local used game store today. NES, SNES and Genesis games are really drying up in my area over the last year. I've noticed the shelf space has shrunk considerably and much of what's left is sports games. PS1 games are still in OK supply but seem to be going the same way.
Yeah I bought it off a South American ebayer. Had a good price on it and it's the exact same game as the us got just a different label.
It does seem to following the same trend upwards in price but there really aren't a lot of them on eBay to compare to.
Brock_Landers
Member
Have you verified it's real? I have a hard time trusting anything from the region
I've had it opened and it's definitely a legit pcb. Just a different print for down there.
Actually, I wonder about that. If you look at the Japanese SFC -> N64 -> GameCube and even GB -> GBA - DS, the N64 looks weird and doesn't seem to fit. But if you look at the American NES v2 -> SNES -> N64, the N64 (with it's odd curves and shapes and angles) looks right at home.
I wonder if the N64's exterior was designed in America (with input from Japan)? IIRC, the N64's internals were largely built by SGI, who talked to NOA, who talked to NCL. Or if NCL really did design the N64's exterior for a worldwide market, maybe they were trying to design like NOA?
In the interview you linked, the interviewer is the one who says that NCL handles all the designs, and asks if NOA has any input at all, but Lance Barr never really answers that question. He just says that designs have been "globally standardized" for efficiency and saving money (not because NCL was upset with the look of the SNES), and that he believes tailored designs could be more effective. But... the N64 bombed in Japan, so maybe he's right?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Well the N64 was originally announced as the Nintendo Ultra 64, which was a name that Japan never intended to use (it was called N64 over here in order to bring it in line with their choice of the N64 name in Japan). So they showed off the American console concept first.
So it very well might have been an American design.
I'm not really sure where you're coming from, though... I think the N64 and SFC are far more alike than the N64 and US SNES. Both have rounded elements, similar power switch and reset buttons, no end labels on the games, etc.
I'll try to explain what I'm seeing.
From Famicom to Super Famicom, Nintendo seems to have abandoned the "toy" look and just smoothed and softened everything. It's still a rectangle, with a sloped front, the power and reset buttons are almost the same, and they improved the eject lever. The built in controllers and controller-homes were ditched in favor of dual controller slots where the one controller slot already existed. The hard rectangular Famicom controller has been softened, as two soft circles create their own rectangle. It's the Famicom, beautifully simplified.
NOA ditched the "VCR" look just as NCL ditched the "toy" look, and the NES didn't really connect to anything else visually, so I'm skipping the NES.
NOA redesigned the SFC. That it's basically a rectangle of similar size, with similar locations of things (due to the demands of the innards) is really all that they kept. It's a boxy rectangle with no slope. It's got a rounded bulge for the cart slot, and "rails" visually connecting the controller ports to the cart-slot-bulge. The power and reset buttons "ride the rails", and the eject lever was redesigned. Where the SFC was simple, the SNES tried to be creative.
For the NES Model 2, I think NOA kind of lost their minds. Where to start? Okay, the cart slot bulge is even more pronounced, and now it seems to be based on a circle, not merely rounded. And the controller has taken the "circle" basis of the SFC/SNES even farther by making the circles more obvious, and added bulges by the buttons and D-pad. The main unit has two different angles on the face of it, which combined with the circle of the cart slot, kind of gives off the impression of "scissors", or some sort of folding device like a waffle maker.
I'd say the N64's most prominent features are the bulge for the RAM expansion (insert pants joke) and the protruding front feet, which are circles. Even without the feet, the whole console is a wedge, narrower in back than it is in front. The cart slot is not a bulge this time, it was "scooped out" from the bulge of the RAM expansion. You can probably blame the RAM expansion and the scoop for the lack of an eject lever. The power and reset buttons are in a fairly traditional position, but they've been reinvented yet again, and now they resemble the bulges of NOA's NES Model 2. The power/reset indentations carry on backwards far more than was needed. The controller ports are full circles, for purely aesthetic reasons.
Where NCL's designs (after the Famicom's "toy" design) seem to be simple (the GameBoy has one rounded corner, and the Wii has one corner chopped off), the N64 seems pointlessly creative in ways that seem to me like they reflect NOA's handiwork.
Shadow Hog
Member
You do realize the NES 2 design is just the AV Famicom, right
I mean, I suppose the NES 2 launched first by two months, but I still get the impression the design was thought up in Japan first
Actually, I wasn't aware of that. Just looking at some pictures, the flat cart slot really tones down the design, but it still contains a lot of what I talked about.
If NCL designed the AV Famicom, then I guess they really could've designed the N64 entirely by themselves.
Whoa, a sealed repro of a SMW hack....that's ....um...impressive.
At first glance I thought someone had made a box for the actual SMW since many people only have it as a loose cart, due to it being a pack-in game with the system back then.
Actually that's why I asked Uncle Tusk very recently to make me a box for it, and furthermore I asked for the Japanese artwork....I just love that. The small "Super Mario Bros. 4" subtitle as well. See for yourself:
At first glance I thought someone had made a box for the actual SMW since many people only have it as a loose cart, due to it being a pack-in game with the system back then.
Actually that's why I asked Uncle Tusk very recently to make me a box for it, and furthermore I asked for the Japanese artwork....I just love that. The small "Super Mario Bros. 4" subtitle as well. See for yourself:
Brock_Landers
Member
And what do you know, the buyer isn't happy...
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...sspagename=VIP:feedback&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller
I guess you're digging your own grave buying an item with a description as nebulous as "Depending where the auction ends I will throw in the boards free as charge. "
EatinOlives
Member
So he has the boards but chose to sell the shells for absolutely no reason.
Sounds to me like he gutted the carts, sold the shells, and will print off new labels on cheap shells, put the boards on those, and resell the game, effectively selling the games twice.
It's clearly a scam. Nobody wants a fucking shell only.
D.Lo
Member
Yeah I can't really agree with your reasoning on the US SNES being the precursor to the N64, but I can see your argument.
I think the US SNES was pretty much NOA trying to make the console look 'badass' and 'hard' or something compared to the Japanese 'softness'. But they missed that mark and made it look like crap. It doesn't match the NES at all in colouring or design so that can't have been much of an angle, and at best apart from trying to look 'badass' (with lavender...) I can only see an attempted differentiation strategy. It truly does look like nothing else (unlike NES = VCR etc).
N64 was clearly a 'power statement' console (like the Mega Drive, the PS2 'monolith' or more recently the Analogue NT for example). It's supposed to say 'I am the centre of the universe'. While the PS1 and Saturn were trying to look like generic boxes off on the side, the N64 said 'put me in the middle of your setup'.
It was also partly designed around the idea of four controller ports, good ventilation, and the required stability for that. The board inside is much smaller than the case.
I see nothing following the design decisions of either the SFC or the US SNES, it's a clear break from both. And if pressed, it's closer to the rounded SFC than the US SNES.
I think the US SNES was pretty much NOA trying to make the console look 'badass' and 'hard' or something compared to the Japanese 'softness'. But they missed that mark and made it look like crap. It doesn't match the NES at all in colouring or design so that can't have been much of an angle, and at best apart from trying to look 'badass' (with lavender...) I can only see an attempted differentiation strategy. It truly does look like nothing else (unlike NES = VCR etc).
N64 was clearly a 'power statement' console (like the Mega Drive, the PS2 'monolith' or more recently the Analogue NT for example). It's supposed to say 'I am the centre of the universe'. While the PS1 and Saturn were trying to look like generic boxes off on the side, the N64 said 'put me in the middle of your setup'.
It was also partly designed around the idea of four controller ports, good ventilation, and the required stability for that. The board inside is much smaller than the case.
I see nothing following the design decisions of either the SFC or the US SNES, it's a clear break from both. And if pressed, it's closer to the rounded SFC than the US SNES.
the androgyne
Member
Prior to Shoshinkai 1995 it was Ultra 64 everywhere. They announced the name change for Japan, along with the new logo at that show, then changed to Nintendo 64 globally when it was delayed until September.
I was basically thinking that NCL was going for simplification, eventually ending up with "GameCube is a cube" after skipping N64, while NOA was adding artistic contours and lines, and circles, circles everywhere.
But the AV Famicom crashed my line of thinking. I was aware of the NES Model 2 (because of the top-loading), but somehow I've missed the AV Famicom for all of these years. I've even got a Famicom Disc System (broken, of course), but the AV Famicom was nowhere on my radar.
ResidentDante
Member
Doesn't even the arcade machine of Cruisin' USA have the Ultra logo? I remember it being shown on the show-reel the arcade machine runs when it's not in use.
Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF-fAWgP710 watch the logo at the start.
If you look at the feedback he actually did this twice. I doubt he ever had the boards, he's just getting cheap games and printing off labels.
Brock_Landers
Member
Well that seals it. Reporting him, for whatever good that does.
I just can't believe he claims he "might send the boards." That's pretty disgusting.
GloriousNL
Neo Member
nice gets! Love the design of Ashibe.
QualityPixel
Banned
There can't be a better place to ask this. I whipped out my old SNES for my 6yr old niece and 4yr old nephew play and was quickly reminded that all my old controllers suck or don't work. What is my best option for replacement controllers on a budget. I don't need fancy originals just ones that work well. Thanks SNES GAF
Brock_Landers
Member
I have had nothing but bad experiences with contemporary controllers
GloriousNL
Neo Member
just take them apart and clean them, that will do the trick. Nothing better than the original controllers.
That's some false advertisement for Final Fight.Remember this spread in magazines just after SNES launched in the U.S. ?
I know it is, but I'll never forget the look on those kids' faces stealing a FF coin-op machine, lol,
SeventhSon
Member
One thing thing that was deliberate was the inclusion of the rounded top to stop people from resting drinks on the system, as was the case with the NES. That was in Nintendo Power.
Cleaning old SNES controllers is by far the best and cheapest option.
Get a small Phillips (cross-head) screwdriver, if you don't already have one (a full size screwdriver is too big). Take one of the controllers apart on a flat surface where you won't lose little bits like screws (maybe keep a shoebox or something handy).
Scrub down all the hard plastic pieces with a toothbrush and maybe some dish soap. If you're doing this by a sink, make sure you put the stopper in the sink so you don't lose pieces down the drain.
Clean the circuit boards with some Q-tips and alcohol. If you don't have alcohol, dish soap is probably fine. Just don't go crazy with it, and make sure it's dry after.
Be careful with the little rubber membranes. As long as they're still rubbery, they're fine. If they're dried out or torn, they're ruined. I like to carefully clean the top parts with a Q-tip and a bit of water, but I don't think you're supposed to clean the black bits on the underside (they're electrical conductors, and you don't want to clean them off).
Give the cord a bit of a cleaning with a soapy rag.
Make sure it's all dry, put it back together, and it should feel almost good as new, better than anything else you can get, for next-to-no cost, even if you have to buy the screwdriver.
Yep
I really like the art style in the game too, nice and colourful.Tell me about it. A couple of years ago I was going to get a copy for about £29, but decided to wait for some reason, now it's much more than that everywhere
sixteen-bit
Member
Is this real?
Probably an ad for a game that got canned.
Lufia 2 was a late SNES game, coming out in late 1996, but Estpolis 2 came out a bit earlier in early 1995.
Neverland/Taito came out with two more SFC games in 1996, after Estpolis 2 (Chaos Seed and Energy Breaker), so it's not unreasonable to think that they got started on an Estpolis 3, but had to cancel it when they saw it'd never release in time.
Lufia: The Legend Returns on GameBoy in 2001 wasn't called Estpolis 3 in Japan, probably because Neverland already had an Estpolis 3, and it died, so they didn't want to call this one that.
Edit: Apparently in 1998, Neverland was working on a Lufia 3 for the PSX, but that project fell apart and got downgraded to the GameBoy.
So it probably went:
SFC -> crash -> PSX -> crash -> GameBoy
sixteen-bit
Member
It's always fun to imagine what could have been
Here's some footage of Lufia for Genesis, but that never went anywhere.
Skip ahead to around 39:12
They thought Animaniacs would be their number one game? Ahead of Contra Hard Corps and Batman?
sixteen-bit
Member
It probably was. Think about how much cheaper and easier it is to find Animaniacs than those other two games. It probably sold a lot.
Brock_Landers
Member
Beat a number of titles lately:
D-Force
Mario's Time Machine
Goof Troop
Tuff E Nuff
Fatal Fury
Bomberman B-Daman
Brainlord
Some of those were definitely a test in patience at times...
I was hoping to finally beat Earthworm Jim as well, but couldn't figure out how to get past the third bungie jumping level. Think I'll need to watch a video guide for that one.
My wife and I have also been trying to beat Super Bomberman 3 for over a year at this point. The final world, and two bosses, are a b#tch!
D-Force
Mario's Time Machine
Goof Troop
Tuff E Nuff
Fatal Fury
Bomberman B-Daman
Brainlord
Some of those were definitely a test in patience at times...
I was hoping to finally beat Earthworm Jim as well, but couldn't figure out how to get past the third bungie jumping level. Think I'll need to watch a video guide for that one.
My wife and I have also been trying to beat Super Bomberman 3 for over a year at this point. The final world, and two bosses, are a b#tch!