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SNES Game Collecting (Tips, discussion, and info for like minded collectors)

IrishNinja

Member
oh yeah, hit detection can be something special, haha

Hmm. Don't recall many negative impressions of SoM. I do seem to recall grinding to upgrade weapons, which wasn't much fun in the early going.

god, i recall grinding magic being so much more a chore than weapons, since i'd have to keep going out to murder wolves in a snowy forest, nuke em a few times or whatever, run back to town to sleep/reup MP and rinse/repeat, ugh
 

TheMoon

Member
Terranigma > Mana

But look how few of us knew about terranigma.

Word.

Phil-Dunphy.gif
 

StAidan

Member
I loved Secret of Mana, but I always played it co-op with my brother, so maybe it was a better game that way. (Always wished I had the multi-tap for 3 player, but 2 was fine.)

We played it to completion and collected a lot of the rarer items by the time we were done with it. SoM might have been my family's most common rental, which is saying a lot since we rented a lot of games back then.
 
I gotta give Terranigma an honest go sometime.

I loved Soul Blazer but Illusion of Gaia wasn't my cup of tea. I hope it leans toward the former.
 
It didn't age well, unlike the vast majority of snes hits.

You're not alone in that view. If it wasn't a square rpg it wouldn't have gotten the attention it did.

But if you played it back in 1995, you'll still love its quirks today :)

Terranigma > Mana

But look how few of us knew about terranigma.

I like Mana, but that isn't even in the same ballpark. Terranigma would be talked about along with FF6 and CT as bests of that generation if more people played it.
 

IrishNinja

Member
damn, see i didnt finish soul blazer or gaia (got the to end on that one!), went straight to terra and now it's gonna be hard to go back
 

Square2015

Member
For people who have played any of these 'Japan only but fan translated' games, what are your impressions of them?

BS Zelda
Magical Pop N
Bahamut Lagoon
Live a Live
Marvelous: Another Treasure Island
Do-Re-Mi Fantasy
Dragon Quest 1 & 2
Dragon Quest 3
Emerald Dragoon
Famicom Detective Club Part 2
Fire Emblem: Genealogy Of The Holy War
Fire Emblem: Thracia 776
Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem
Shin Megami Tensei
Shin Megami Tensei II
Treasure Hunter G
Treasure of the Rudras
They are excellent. I own most of those now. Treasure Hunter-G has probably the best graphics of SNES + a nice soundtrack. DQ3 is an amazing remake. Detective club is pretty cool. SMT II is one of my favorites now (more user friendly than the first). Live-a-live is quirky but worth it. Genealogy of the holy war is a pretty damn good strategy game, haven't enough of the other FEs. BL is almost as good, and has nice graphics.

Try out THG if you want to be impressed with SNES graphics, along with DQ3 if you like old school dragon quest (better than I.II). If you want more strategy play FE:GotHW and BL. If you want hardcore RPG with deep (and controversial) relgious apocalyptic themes dive into SMT II then I. Quirky yet historical scenarios try LaL. Many people like TotR's story, with three scenarios that come together at the end like LaL? it's almost as good. I don't remember emerald dragon being that great but only played briefly, I haven't played popn, marvelous, and do-re-Mi.
 
Finally got an original super Famicom to replace my now defective SNES mini. And contrary to popular opinion, the SFC has a stronger composite picture than the mini. Then again, I am playing on a 26 inch LCD TV, old-school LCD though.

The SFC also feels far more sturdy than the mini, despite being probably five or six years older.

Doesn't matter anyways, switched over to S – video. (which the mini never had to begin with)

Also wanted to put in an additional promo plug for the super retro trio, which I'm still keeping hooked up for SNES games and original NES games. Puts out a stellar S – video picture.
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
Good to see Im not alone in my middling experience of Secret of Mana. Still playing it though, but the atrocious combat-system is really getting on my nerves. Just beat the ice boss by spamming fire attacks, so its not that the game is that hard or anything, the systems are just so badly thought out imo. Still love the graphics and music, and kind of want to complete it since it is after all considered a classic.
 

Rongolian

Banned
Good to see Im not alone in my middling experience of Secret of Mana. Still playing it though, but the atrocious combat-system is really getting on my nerves. Just beat the ice boss by spamming fire attacks, so its not that the game is that hard or anything, the systems are just so badly thought out imo. Still love the graphics and music, and kind of want to complete it since it is after all considered a classic.

Good luck friend. I only got to the second to last boss playing through it the first time this year, and it just got too boring for me. The overworld is impossible to navigate without a map, the battles are just spamming one single spell over and over again, and the hit detection is so damn frustrating.

I understand why people love it through nostalgia glasses, but I was really disappointed having not played it when I was younger.
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
Good luck friend. I only got to the second to last boss playing through it the first time this year, and it just got too boring for me. The overworld is impossible to navigate without a map, the battles are just spamming one single spell over and over again, and the hit detection is so damn frustrating.

I understand why people love it through nostalgia glasses, but I was really disappointed having not played it when I was younger.

Thanks, will see if I can manage to stay with it :) All those complains you got there are valid imo. Interesting that among the opinions coming out on the game here, its actually overwhelmingly negative, guess this game isnt really overrated by connoisseurs like the people frequenting this thread.
 

Rongolian

Banned
Thanks, will see if I can manage to stay with it :) All those complains you got there are valid imo. Interesting that among the opinions coming out on the game here, its actually overwhelmingly negative, guess this game isnt really overrated by connoisseurs like the people frequenting this thread.

I've been going through a journey of old RPG's throughout the years, and I find that turn-based RPG's (particularly Strategy RPG's) age better because many of their flaws are hidden behind a familiar, fair battle system that relies on calculated inputs vs. precise inputs.

I feel that the absence of detailed descriptions of items in older turn-based RPG's can be more easily forgiven than a clunky, unresponsive hit detection in an older action-RPG.

One thing I really can give it is the graphics. Squaresoft were really in their prime generating pixel art in the SNES era, and it shows on all of their latter 16 bit titles and even into some of their efforts on the Playstation.
 

D.Lo

Member
RPG companies were bad at action generally. They should have called Nintendo for help, it's not like LTTP has deep combat mechanics, but it's solid as, Mana's mechanics are like a bad Amiga game, it feels unplaytested, like something developed by hobbyists.

Traditional turn based RPGs were such an interesting beast. Primitive turn based mechanics, random encounters, transitions to battle scenes, so many things that were created due to the limitations of ancient 8-bit computers, but then became standards themselves instead of being ditched when they were no longer needed.
 

Rongolian

Banned
RPG companies were bad at action generally. They should have called Nintendo for help, it's not like LTTP has deep combat mechanics, but it's solid as, Mana's mechanics are like a bad Amiga game, it feels unplaytested, like something developed by hobbyists.

Traditional turn based RPGs were such an interesting beast. Primitive turn based mechanics, random encounters, transitions to battle scenes, so many things that were created due to the limitations of ancient 8-bit computers, but then became standards themselves instead of being ditched when they were no longer needed.

I really like the point you made about LTTP, if SoM had the hit detection of LTTP I think it would be a completely different game to me. Did it's sequel improve on this?
 
Illusion of Gaia is probably my favorite Zelda-ish action-RPG that generation. Amazing game. SoulBlazer is also good, though not as great as Illusion of Gaia. I still haven't played Terranigma much, though, sadly... stupid Nintendo, for not bringing it out in the US!

As for Secret of Mana, I got that game as one of the earlier titles I got for the SNES after I got the system in '05 or '06, and was disappointed; it's super-grindey, and the game got boring. I lost interest partway through, grinding constantly is not fun, I want to just be able to play each area once instead of having to go back and forth grinding every time! I really dislike the long delay on your attacks, too, that long pause between a hit and the enemy's reaction to it. The combat suffers as a result.

Seiken Densetsu III is a much better game mechanically, it fixes Secret of Mana's faults. It's a fantastic game. I still like the first game, Final Fantasy Adventure, best, in the Mana series, but SDIII is second. The stupid long delay is fixed, the game flows better with a bit less mandatory grind (though hit's a Square game so of course it still has grinding), the story is a bit better, and more. Square really should have localized it... though Secret of Evermore actually is a good game too, and does play a bit better than Secret of Mana as far as combat goes, even if it's no match for SDIII.

Overall, though, I prefer the more Zelda-like play of FFL to the charge-attack-centric combat system of SoM, SDIII, and SoE. I just don't really care for that kind of wait-up-and-charge-attacks style of play -- I don't love the platformers The Legendary Axe or Astyanax, either, both of which have combat systems with a charge meter sort of like the one later seen in SoM. FFL does have super moves with a charge meter, but it's not as central to gameplay as it is in the SNES games. It's more about Zelda-like exploration and hack and slash action, though the game does have grinding and such at times as well, of course... it being a Square game, and all.
 

Cheerilee

Member
IIRC, one of the biggest "buzz" factors of Secret of Mana back in the day was it's "circular ring" user interface.

Nowadays, UI systems have progressed so much, SoM's once-revolutionary UI doesn't even merit noticing.
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
I've been going through a journey of old RPG's throughout the years, and I find that turn-based RPG's (particularly Strategy RPG's) age better because many of their flaws are hidden behind a familiar, fair battle system that relies on calculated inputs vs. precise inputs.

I feel that the absence of detailed descriptions of items in older turn-based RPG's can be more easily forgiven than a clunky, unresponsive hit detection in an older action-RPG.

One thing I really can give it is the graphics. Squaresoft were really in their prime generating pixel art in the SNES era, and it shows on all of their latter 16 bit titles and even into some of their efforts on the Playstation.

But then again, as mentioned by others, A link to the Past, and even games like the original Zelda, Crystalis and the Ys-games work much better, even though they do nothing remotely interesting with the combat mechanics. It just works. Hell, even Seiken Densetsu 1 has a simple, but working combat-system, which is why its so baffling to me that they screwed it up in Secret of Mana. Definitely agree on the pixel art and music, in that regard Secret of Mana is near the top of all time, although I think i like Legend of Mana even better.

IIRC, one of the biggest "buzz" factors of Secret of Mana back in the day was it's "circular ring" user interface.

Nowadays, UI systems have progressed so much, SoM's once-revolutionary UI doesn't even merit noticing.

I remember that, but I dont understand it. I guess it is decent considering how often the game forces you to use menus, but of course, the game probably shouldnt have forced you to do that nearly as much since it slows everything down so much.

But yeah, interesting discussion on Secret of Mana, even though it wasnt really my intention to take over this whole thread with Mana-criticism. It was just so strange to me how clunky it plays, and like D.Lo said, it feels like it wasnt playtested at all. Maybe this is indeed a result of it originally being a project for the Nintendo Playstation, and thus ending in a bit of a development mess when it got moved to cartridges, I dont know. Strange that they didnt use what they learnt in the Game Boy-original anyways though.
 

TeaJay

Member
My latest pick-up was Skyblazer. It's a fun, colorful action platformer which feels kinda like Mega Man X and/or Actraiser (action sequences). The soundtrack is really good so far and the action feels fun. Dunno why it's not mentioned more, maybe it gets more tedious in the long run?
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
My latest pick-up was Skyblazer. It's a fun, colorful action platformer which feels kinda like Mega Man X and/or Actraiser (action sequences). The soundtrack is really good so far and the action feels fun. Dunno why it's not mentioned more, maybe it gets more tedious in the long run?

I think its a bit clunky, and the level design is not so great. But yeah, its definitely a good game well worth playing and owning!
 
My latest pick-up was Skyblazer. It's a fun, colorful action platformer which feels kinda like Mega Man X and/or Actraiser (action sequences). The soundtrack is really good so far and the action feels fun. Dunno why it's not mentioned more, maybe it gets more tedious in the long run?

Great game. A hidden gem.
 

IrishNinja

Member
Yeah, most folks will probably say Seiken Densetsu 3 looks better, but I love SoM's aesthetics.

ive only played a bit of 4, but yeah, SoM has a very distinct world/ambiance in my mind. again the OST really shapes that, but like that first town & waterfall going to the sword you weren't supposed to pull...it's cemented in my mind. just a great world overall.
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
Advanced a bit in Secret of Mana today, and am now in Northtown. Will say that the criticism of it being grindy, is perhapts a bit overblown. As long as you spam bosses with magic, it seems like you can go through the game mostly without grinding, at least that has worked for now. A bit boring though, that I always have enough money to get every new equipment when its getting available, removing some usually decent strategical decision when gold is so plentiful.
 

TheMoon

Member
Advanced a bit in Secret of Mana today, and am now in Northtown. Will say that the criticism of it being grindy, is perhapts a bit overblown. As long as you spam bosses with magic, it seems like you can go through the game mostly without grinding, at least that has worked for now. A bit boring though, that I always have enough money to get every new equipment when its getting available, removing some usually decent strategical decision when gold is so plentiful.

That'll change. ;)
 

Peltz

Member
I really dig SOM's music and art style, but I have to agree that the hype for it is overblown. I know this is controversial, but Legend of Mana is the best officially localized game in the series in my opinion. I haven't played SD3 so I can't comment on that one, but LOM was such an important game for me as a teenager. The experience really resonated with me in a deep way that few other games ever have.

It's dissappointing that few people can see how far ahead of its time LOM really was.
 

IrishNinja

Member
yeah, stumpkapow did a big LOM writeup years ago that made me realize i went about that game all wrong, picked it up again a while back and once i clear up more of my backlog i intend to try it again with his advice in mind - even in the day, i knew randomly dumping plots of land about seemed wrong
 

Cheerilee

Member
What do you all think of these snes/sfc "slot protection" things? Good to keep the original system pins intact or totally unecessary?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/331512262993?_mwBanner=1

I have one (which I don't use). The games feel unsupported in those (they're being held up by little more than their circuit boards), so it's trading away SNES cart safety in favor of SNES hardware unit safety. And most of my SNES carts are worth more than my SNES hardware, so that seems like a bad idea to me.
 
What do you all think of these snes/sfc "slot protection" things? Good to keep the original system pins intact or totally unecessary?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/331512262993?_mwBanner=1

Truly idiotic. Just bust out the tabs in the SNES. People's reluctance to do so is utterly baffling to me. You'll never see it and it's totally harmless. So easy it cannot really even be called a "mod."

EDIT: I didn't notice at first that this was a SNES->SFC converter. That's not as simple a mod. You will have the cut or sand plastic in a visible way. It's one reason I think the SNES is better than the SFC, but then again I'm not one who's turned off by its purple boxy look, as some are.
 
Truly idiotic. Just bust out the tabs in the SNES. People's reluctance to do so is utterly baffling to me. You'll never see it and it's totally harmless. So easy it cannot really even be called a "mod."

EDIT: I didn't notice at first that this was a SNES->SFC converter. That's not as simple a mod. You will have the cut or sand plastic in a visible way. It's one reason I think the SNES is better than the SFC, but then again I'm not one who's turned off by its purple boxy look, as some are.

The problem is finding a reasonably priced snes in excellent condition. Very very hard to find. I've had two snes' and both had minor but nagging issues mostly due to prior owner mistreatment.

And what's with every second snes for sale coming with crappy RF cable and/or third party power supply? Lol

Looked for a while and gave up, went with a clone + SFC instead and ordered controllers from Japan (SFC).
 

IrishNinja

Member
ive a good SNES these days, one with the sticker on it that doesnt yellow (later model i wanna say?), solid RGB and i don't think the tradeoff on a 1CHIP is worth it for me. that said, if i could toss it into an SFC shell, i would!
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
I have one that is modded for 50/60hz (living in Europe and all), but its not that nice looking thanks to the yellowing, so need to eventually fix that. Sucks I didnt know about the onechip when I did it though, not sure it will be worth it to get one and mod that as well, considering the total cost.
 

IrishNinja

Member
ehh they look nice, but it's not a huge jump for me like RGB was, for instance - plus losing the use of game genies is a dealbreaker for a scrub like me, haha
 

Timu

Member
ive a good SNES these days, one with the sticker on it that doesnt yellow (later model i wanna say?), solid RGB and i don't think the tradeoff on a 1CHIP is worth it for me. that said, if i could toss it into an SFC shell, i would!
You have one that doesn't yellow? So do I, but those are kinda rare. I've never had one that yellowed though, even back then. Guess I got lucky with my SNESs.
 

IrishNinja

Member
yeah, i wanna say i read (prolly here?) there was a revision that was made with slightly different stuff, and the sticker on the left-hand side indicates it or something...but it's one my friend won from a contest in the day, still going strong!
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
I actually have another one that doesnt yellow, and has been considering changing its shell to my modded unit, however, that would mean more cutting in the plastic etc, so we will see.
 

Mzo

Member
The sticker is a warning not to pull out the cart while the system is on since they removed the hook that used to keep you from doing that. No idea why they did that since no one should ever want to pull out a cart while the system is on anyway.
 

D.Lo

Member
What do you all think of these snes/sfc "slot protection" things? Good to keep the original system pins intact or totally unecessary?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/331512262993?_mwBanner=1
Looool

Ebay bans anything that allows breaking regional lockouts (eg mod chips) and it would get pulled down if it was called a converter, so the seller has named it this as a way of getting past the ebay censors.

I might actually even get one if there are cheaper ones available. To play US games on the SFC.
 
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