So... is Steve Jobs dying?
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donkeymonkey
Member
giga said:
Although it was a complete failure, i would argue that the LISA was apple's most influential product, with starting the GUI revolution and all.
Always-honest
Banned
ah, THAT steve......
rename the thread,..
rename the thread,..
Lich_King said:
wtf do you worship him that much?
I don't really care either way as I find him an arrogant fool but I will acknowledge that it is sad he is dying.
Now thats out of the way I'll go back to say how his arrogance about Mac and iPod superiority, which doesn't exist btw, really puts me off to ever buying an Apple product.
I mean they look really sleek but I don't wanna experiment because of him. To the niche of core PC enthusiasts he is not a symbol of anything.
Manics said:
wait... are you being serious or mocking?
Freestyler
Member
Zyzyxxz said:
More like you're too cheap to buy Apple products and you'd rather stick with your Dells and Hondas.
And wtf is "to the niche of core PC enthusiasts, he is not a symbol of anything"?
You could apply that [retarded] logic to any minority - "to the niche of Purple Audi R8 fans, the new Nissan GT-R is not a well-respected vehicle".
Mecha_Infantry
Banned
I just looked and Pavarotti had the same cancer and same surgery as Jobs had....and he died
As for the whole pioneering thing, the reason why people have taken so much disdain to the comment is because pioneering means to be the FIRST to do something. I believe the word you were originally looking for was possibly revolutionize
As for the whole pioneering thing, the reason why people have taken so much disdain to the comment is because pioneering means to be the FIRST to do something. I believe the word you were originally looking for was possibly revolutionize
Patrick Bateman
Member
Mecha_Infantry said:
*selfquote*
Graf Nudu said:
TerryLee81
Member
The more important achievement for me is how good OS X is today.
But how much influence does / did Jobs have in the developement of OS X?
But how much influence does / did Jobs have in the developement of OS X?
Jobs has huge influence in everything, without him and NeXTstep we would not even have OS X.TerryLee81 said:
Ofc Wozniak had a huge influence in the making of Apple but he could have been replaced with anyone really. Steve is and will always be the key.tHoMNZ said:he couldn't have done it without woz
Edit: I'm not sure I can listen to this. We have had the same bullshit so many times over.
I love the comments that the iPod did nothing for the MP3 player market. Jesus, does anyone remember what MP3 players were like before Apple did one?
http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2008/03/10th-anniversay-of-the-mp3-player.php
Those early players were just horrible.
http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2008/03/10th-anniversay-of-the-mp3-player.php
Those early players were just horrible.
JetSetRadio
Banned
company CEO about to die.
What's all the fuzz about? Seems like there truly is an apple religion.
What's all the fuzz about? Seems like there truly is an apple religion.
Eteric Rice
Member
Wait, do we know for sure that he's dying?
And I'm surprised. Wasn't he a health freak?
And I'm surprised. Wasn't he a health freak?
Giganticus
Member
health freaks opt for shitty forms of treatment like refusing chemo and instead having homoeopathy etc.Eteric Rice said:
NintendoTogepi
Banned
LCfiner said:
____________________
Anyway, very sad. Steve Jobs is an icon. I hope he isn't too sick
Instigator
Banned
rezuth said:
Indeed. Jobs could have fooled and exploited anyone. Woz was just the unfortunate target.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
Zyzyxxz said:
Actually, to the real core PC enthusiasts, Jobs is very well respected, because they know his contribution to personal computing. Perhaps you meant to say the "niche core of Windows enthusiasts" or something of that nature.
And seriously, you wouldn't want to "experiment" with a different computer/OS because of one person? Do you hate Linus Torvald too?
rezuth said:
Actually, many commented on how pale and sickly he looked. He was hardly in perfect health.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
I know he put up that graphic, and was trying to quell the spread of rumors, but nearly every blog or story I read on the iPod announcements (in Sept.) or the MacBook rollout (October), forget which one, commented on how pale and gray he looked. Apple even went so far as to say that he had been feeling under the weather leading up to the event, after the comments started coming out.
As for his diet, he's actually been a vegetarian for years, and has generally eaten a healthy diet. Don't know if that has changed to something more specific recently, but I doubt it's had an impact on his weight much.
As for his diet, he's actually been a vegetarian for years, and has generally eaten a healthy diet. Don't know if that has changed to something more specific recently, but I doubt it's had an impact on his weight much.
Steve Jobs is one of the most important men in the last 100 years, that is pretty much a fact. Whether he will be remembered in a another 100 is an open question, but the products and ideas he has been the catalyser and organizer of, has had such a profound effect on society that very few other people can claim to have been so influential.
Sure, he didn't engineer any of the products and the majority of them wasn't even his idea. But like Walt Disney and he has impeccable and natural sense product design, story telling and how to convey a new concept to the general public.
That is what makes him so special.
Sure, he didn't engineer any of the products and the majority of them wasn't even his idea. But like Walt Disney and he has impeccable and natural sense product design, story telling and how to convey a new concept to the general public.
That is what makes him so special.
:lol :lol What? Please elaborate, because so far I haven't seen anything he did being this important.Squeak said:
And him being an icon.... That's subjective, and only very few people hold that opinion, most don't know him. I know him and I definitely don't consider him an icon, I really see no reason to. He's just a CEO who can deliver speeches very well and has made lots of good decisions for Apple.
thesoapster
Member
msv said:
Just made lots of good decisions that quite likely have influenced whatever operating system you are using right now.
Boards of Canada
Member
I think he looks fine.
Well apart from statesmen and political leaders, obviously... But still:msv said:
He was the one, of anyone to bring personal computing to ordinary people with the Apple II (Woz is a brilliant engineer, but he would never had had the idea of marketing a something like the Apple II).
He was the first to market an affordable GUI computer with some of the ideas from PARC.
He co invented Breakout with Woz.
He saw the real potential of highend computer graphics for entertainment, when when he bought Pixar from Lucas Film.
He founded NeXT, which launched the revolutionary NeXT cube, which brought to the business consumer, some of the most important ideas from PARC he'd missed the first time around. Namely object oriented programming and ethernet networks, together with an awesome OS, that forms the backbone of OSX.
He singlehandedly brought Apple back from the dead.
He conceived iMac, iBook and iPod, some of the most iconic and successful electronics products ever.
thesoapster
Member
msv said:
Uhh...especially when Apple was a new company, yes, he did do a good bit of the design and development. As the company got bigger over time he did of course scale back. I never said he personally made all the factors that influence modern operating systems. His earlier decisions in the company would be directly related to the design, and, later on, approving others' designs.
Okay, he had the idea of marketing the thing. Don't see the tremendous importance of that, many other companies were trying to market them at the time. They would've become popular without Steve Jobs 'influence' anyway.Squeak said:
Again, I don't see this as actually important in the real world. Someone else would have marketed it, that's not the important thing here. The actual object being marketed is however.
The game? Okay, that's something at least.
Good money-making decisions, pretty obvious ones as well. Everyone saw the potential of high-end cg entertainment at the time.
Did he develop it? Or, again, merely marketed it (/saw the potential in it)?
Apple itself is of no grand-scale importance imo. He's a good CEO, that's been stated.
So he had the idea for some products. I don't see it as his conceivings though, since the actual work is done behind the scenes, and that work is done by many, not Steve Jobs. Maybe he is of importance to the corporate world, is that what you're saying?
thesoapster
Member
msv said:
Well I never said he's the most important man in 100 years, now did I?
I'd say he's been influential...an icon? Probably not. The iPod has become an icon, but that's his company's product...not him.
"Jobs noticed his friend Steve Wozniakemployee of Hewlett-Packardwas capable of producing designs with a small number of chips, and invited him to work on the hardware design with the prospect of splitting the $750 wage. Wozniak had no sketches and instead interpreted the game from its description. To save parts, he had "tricky little designs" difficult to understand for most engineers. Near the end of development, Wozniak considered moving the high score to the screen's top, but Jobs claimed Bushnell wanted it at the bottom; Wozniak unaware of any truth to his claims. The original deadline was met after Wozniak didn't sleep for four days straight. In the end 50 chips were removed from Jobs' original design. This equated to a $5000 USD bonus, which Jobs kept secret from Wozniak, instead only paying him $375. [1][2][3][4][5][6]"Squeak said:
Wiki.com
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
msv said:
Not really. In 76, the idea for home computers was hobbyist oriented (ie, kits you built yourself). Apple was pretty revolutionary. Atari was pretty quick behind them, but that's not too surprising since Jobs and Woz came from there and they were thinking along the same lines. Once the Apple showed what could be done, other computer manufacturers (Commodre, IBM) started trying to make home machines.
Again, no, not really at the time. CG graphics were expensive and more a novelty than anything else when Jobs bought them. Pixar was largely an experimental group with big ambitions at the time.
He conceived it and built the company to produce it. Although I would argue that it hasn't has that big an impact.
I think you dismiss the value and importance of marketing (and design) in producing technological change. That's where Jobs shines.
I'm not a big Cult of Steve kinda guy, but he's clearly been important in getting several big things from the conception stage to the successful technology stage (portable mp3, home computer, gui-based computing, CG film) and that's not easily dismissed.
For Squeak-- Bushnell drafted the concept for Breakout and handed it to Jobs and Woz to engineer. Jobs then got Woz to do the work. I wouldn't call that a big feather in the hat for Steve, except his early ability to get engineers to produce great results!
Edit: beaten, and with more detail! D'oh!
I don't care any for this approach - the build it yourself approach is much more flexible and benificial imo. Also I don't see how it isn't obvious - build a computer yourself. Oh how about we build the computer before we sell it?Ignatz Mouse said:
Doesn't mean no one had the idea. Come on the idea was obvious, computing was moving forward and CG entertainment would be inevitable.
Yes I do dismiss that importance of marketing (in the grand, most important man of the previous 100 years, iconical, scale). One's ability to 'market' depends on too many external factors here imo.
Sure, but the question is his factor in that role and how special and important that factor really is.
msv, you're underestimating the impact that Jobs (or any good leader, really) has on the early design and concept of new products.
yeah, he knows how to give a good presentation. he also knows what makes for a good product before most other people. And that's why Apple has had some major successes since his return.
you seem to be looking at it form the viewpoint of someone "in the trenches". Like, if the guy isn't coding the software or milling the casing then they're not important. but that's a narrow view. Conceiving of and pushing forward a risky idea is just as important, if not more so.
I don't like any of the cult leader or god figure analogies they sort of creep me out. but people who dismiss his importance in the digital age just seem ignorant.
edit. I read your last post. are you 12? go back and read the history of what computers were like in the 1970s. there were no beige boxes that you built yourself. it didn't "make more sense" to tat back then. There was no Dell or computer parts store down the street. Apple II was the first mass market PC. my God, do some reading.
yeah, he knows how to give a good presentation. he also knows what makes for a good product before most other people. And that's why Apple has had some major successes since his return.
you seem to be looking at it form the viewpoint of someone "in the trenches". Like, if the guy isn't coding the software or milling the casing then they're not important. but that's a narrow view. Conceiving of and pushing forward a risky idea is just as important, if not more so.
I don't like any of the cult leader or god figure analogies they sort of creep me out. but people who dismiss his importance in the digital age just seem ignorant.
edit. I read your last post. are you 12? go back and read the history of what computers were like in the 1970s. there were no beige boxes that you built yourself. it didn't "make more sense" to tat back then. There was no Dell or computer parts store down the street. Apple II was the first mass market PC. my God, do some reading.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
msv, I guess you had to be there in 76 and 85 and interested in such things to see how important Jobs was. I'm guessing you are under 30, right?
The idea of a full-length CGI movie was really out there in 85. Not only did it seem ungodly expensive and slow to produce, it wasn't clear that there was a non-nerd market for it. Pixar's shorts showed at computing conferences, not at movie theaters. TRON was the closest thing anybody had to a model of computer graphics-based movies, and that had been a flop.
Likewise, pitching a personal computer to people who may not have had an engineering background was a bold move as well. Those "build it yourself" kits weren't modular like modern PCs. They involved soldering and such.
Having the vision to develop and commercialize a product is as important as having the engineering to build it.
I'm not arguing the "most important 100 years blah blah" but it your effort to refute it, you're going too far the other way. If he'd been involved in just one big emerging technology (the home computer) you could dismiss him as a suit, but having been involved in 4, well-- that's not just getting lucky anymore.
The idea of a full-length CGI movie was really out there in 85. Not only did it seem ungodly expensive and slow to produce, it wasn't clear that there was a non-nerd market for it. Pixar's shorts showed at computing conferences, not at movie theaters. TRON was the closest thing anybody had to a model of computer graphics-based movies, and that had been a flop.
Likewise, pitching a personal computer to people who may not have had an engineering background was a bold move as well. Those "build it yourself" kits weren't modular like modern PCs. They involved soldering and such.
Having the vision to develop and commercialize a product is as important as having the engineering to build it.
I'm not arguing the "most important 100 years blah blah" but it your effort to refute it, you're going too far the other way. If he'd been involved in just one big emerging technology (the home computer) you could dismiss him as a suit, but having been involved in 4, well-- that's not just getting lucky anymore.
The guys did sink $60 million of his own money into Pixar before it put together Toy Story and somehow he manage to get a deal out of Disney that didn't completely screw them over. In a world where you have to show an idea can make someone money in order to even be developed, Jobs did hold a pretty important roles in a lot of things. Of course you can say that other peoplemight have done it eventually, but then I guess you can say that about most things and individuals don't really matter.
He is not 'important' compared with a lot politicians or religious leaders for good or ill, but for at least a generation of figures from the Valley, for a business leader, it's hard imagine another narrative like his.
He is not 'important' compared with a lot politicians or religious leaders for good or ill, but for at least a generation of figures from the Valley, for a business leader, it's hard imagine another narrative like his.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Gallbaro said:
When Woz found out, I believe he didn't speak to him for years. They eventually reconciled.
Yes, quite the shithead, and one reason I don't quite get the hero worship some have.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
msv said:
It doesn't matter whether or not you care for the approach. In order for home computers to come out of the garage, and into the home itself, there had to be computers that appealed to the mainstream. That's what Apple did back in the 70's. It was still a niche market, but they made it possible for nearly anyone to own a computer.
msv said:
Actually, at the time, it was not "inevitable". George Lucas didn't see the value in Pixar and had pretty much let it flounder, before selling it to Jobs. Say what you will about Lucas, but he is a very visionary guy, and he wasn't sure what he could do with Pixar.
msv said:
You seem pretty hung up on the "most important man in 100 year" quote, and we all get that and have moved on. But Jobs is considered an icon by many in the world of business and technology. His skills not only at marketing, but also his knack for anticipating what the consumers want, are legendary. So much so, that even Bill Gates has said that he wished he understood the consumer in the same way.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
Gallbaro said:
Yeah, this is a pretty well known story, as are Jobs tantrums and bullying attitude in the early years at Apple. I believe he was also listed as Apple Employee 0 because Woz was Apple Employee 1.
leroy hacker
Member
edit: beaten.
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