Support NeoGAF

[Kung Fu Jedi]

seriously--I basically lost all respect for the guy.

Didn't he eventually reconcile with her and brought her into his family? If I recall correctly, her name is Lisa, right.

But no one is claiming the guy is a saint. A number of us have admitted that he has been an asshole at times, but that doesn't diminish his contributions to business and technology.

 

[KR3W]

Didn't he eventually reconcile with her and brought her into his family? If I recall correctly, her name is Lisa, right.

But no one is claiming the guy is a saint. A number of us have admitted that he has been an asshole at times, but that doesn't diminish his contributions to business and technology.

I'm not sure. All I know is that he acknowledged that he is her father.

I'm not saying he's a saint, I still love Steve--but I kinda lost respect for him.

 

[Terrell]

I imagine a ton of people in this thread consider Miyamoto, Itagaki and Kojima all to be useless figures, none of which deserve any praise?

This is probably the smartest thing said in this discussion.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

This is probably the smartest thing said in this discussion.

I haven't figured out what he's implying, actually. Because they don't code?

 

[White Man]

Ofc Wozniak had a huge influence in the making of Apple but he could have been replaced with anyone really. Steve is and will always be the key.

Jesus Christ, no. Wozniak was one of a kind, and Apple would never even have gotten off the ground without him. I'm not going to try and say who was more important in the relationship or anything like that, but no way that Woz could be replaced with "anyone." Go read about the dude. You will come away really impressed. He's a pretty awesome guy.

 

[flsh]

I imagine a ton of people in this thread consider Miyamoto, Itagaki and Kojima all to be useless figures, none of which deserve any praise?

Did someone really say Steve Jobs deserves no praise? Who would say something so stupid?
The problem is that people give him too much praise. Yes, he is a very good business man. The genius everyone made him out to be? He met the right people at the right time. He could not get anywhere without those people. That iPod he so smartly designed wasn't his idea (he only said he wanted a good MP3, he didn't set limits) or design. Same thing goes for iMac, iPhone, MBP and other stuff.
He probably didn't even hire the people who made those, or the people who hired the people who hired those people, too. He led Apple in a great direction but just because he is Steve Jobs does not mean that everything out of Apple is his idea and design.
Also, the GUI was not Apple's idea. They were not the first to do it either. Xerox PARC was the first computer to have a GUI. The difference is that it wasn't for commercial use.

(Disclaimer - by design I don't mean look. He is responsible for Jonathan Ive working for Apple. But again, that only shows he is a good CEO, not the god of all things Apple)

Also, who gives Miyamoto so much credit for his doings today? He deserves a lot of credit for what he did 20 years ago. Right now he is not the one developing the games or giving the ideas for them necessarily. He was a crucial figure at some point in time, not anymore. When I see someone thinking that whatever Miyamoto does is magic, I think of him as a rabid Nintendo fanboy. Same thing for Steve Jobs admirers. There's a limit to how much these people did alone.

 

[Terrell]

I haven't figured out what he's implying, actually. Because they don't code?

Because while they were initially very involved in the products they produced and are associated with, they are not actively involved in the creation process and now sit in executive roles in a similar fashion to Steve Jobs. And yet very few people discredit their immense influences on MODERN gaming or their status as industry icons.

 

[dallow_bg]

This Macrumors thread is pure gold.



a sample:



edit: that poster got his PDA 6 years later with the iphone/ ipod touch.

That thread has made my day, thank you!

iPoop... iCry. I was so hoping for something more.

Great just what the world needs, another freaking MP3 player. Go Steve! Where's the Newton?!

Come on everyone, y'all are saying it sucks before you have even held it in your hand. I mean 5GB in a little tiny thing like that, it's amazing. I don't see anyone else making something like that. Do you?

 

[Ryck]

That thread has made my day, thank you!

That thread sums up msg boards very well...

 

[DemonSwordsman]

Because while they were initially very involved in the products they produced and are associated with, they are not actively involved in the creation process and now sit in executive roles in a similar fashion to Steve Jobs. And yet very few people discredit their immense influences on MODERN gaming or their status as industry icons.

Well Kojima actually still directs the games he makes like MGS4, dunno about Itagaki and Miyamoto. But regardless if anyone is saying they are men of the century or some shit like you people are saying about Jobs then they are idiots too.

 

[Terrell]

Well Kojima actually still directs the games he makes like MGS4, dunno about Itagaki and Miyamoto. But regardless if anyone is saying they are men of the century or some shit like you people are saying about Jobs then they are idiots too.

You realize what a "director" is, right? A production supervisor. A yes-or-no man. He asks you to do something, doesn't actually make it, and then he approves of its inclusion or not. Which is exactly Jobs' role.
And yes, for their industry, Miyamoto and Kojima ARE icons, they ARE history-makers even in their reduced capacities now. Itagaki is sometimes debatable, but the point still stands.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Everyone who says Jobs has had a huge influence is an idiot? :lol

 

[trinest]

Am I the only one which kept passing this thread, going 'who the fuck is steave' then I relised only today it was the mac guy.
In some ways- I send my respects, but on the other toekn this guy made the iPod popluar- thats just stupid.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Did someone really say Steve Jobs deserves no praise? Who would say something so stupid?
The problem is that people give him too much praise. Yes, he is a very good business man. The genius everyone made him out to be? He met the right people at the right time. He could not get anywhere without those people. That iPod he so smartly designed wasn't his idea (he only said he wanted a good MP3, he didn't set limits) or design. Same thing goes for iMac, iPhone, MBP and other stuff.
He probably didn't even hire the people who made those, or the people who hired the people who hired those people, too. He led Apple in a great direction but just because he is Steve Jobs does not mean that everything out of Apple is his idea and design.
Also, the GUI was not Apple's idea. They were not the first to do it either. Xerox PARC was the first computer to have a GUI. The difference is that it wasn't for commercial use.

Jobs is more hands on then a lot of people realize. He doesn't just hire a great team and then let them do the rest. They bring the prototypes to him, he examines them makes suggestions, and at times demands changes. He'll send the tema back to the drawing board if he doesn't think something is right. So while it's true, he's not in the day to day mix, you can believe that he has direct impact on what that team is working on. Especially when it comes to new products like the iPod and the iPhone.

 

[flsh]

Jobs is more hands on then a lot of people realize. He doesn't just hire a great team and then let them do the rest. They bring the prototypes to him, he examines them makes suggestions, and at times demands changes. He'll send the tema back to the drawing board if he doesn't think something is right. So while it's true, he's not in the day to day mix, you can believe that he has direct impact on what that team is working on. Especially when it comes to new products like the iPod and the iPhone.

While this is good to know, and I do have praise for the guy (and any other person who made it in life), can you really say he deserves all the praise people give him?
He did not come up with the end product. The team did, even if it took more than 1 try. Saying "The iPod is Steve's idea! he made it!" is wrong and dumb. That is what I'm against. He did not develop those stuff, made them look the way they look or set limitations and guide lines for them. If what he did was disapprove a product that would not set apple aside, he did good as a CEO. A company should not release products that will harm it and it's name.

He is a good CEO, just not the man god people make him out to be.

 

[liquid_gears]

I agree with Demon. Jobs has made Apple extreemly successful with his own skills and by drafting in the right people, he is undoubtedly great at what he does, but he is not one of the most important men in the last 100 years, thats just stupid.

Either way, best of luck to him and his family.

 

[Terrell]

While this is good to know, and I do have praise for the guy (and any other person who made it in life), can you really say he deserves all the praise people give him?
He did not come up with the end product. The team did, even if it took more than 1 try. Saying "The iPod is Steve's idea! he made it!" is wrong and dumb. That is what I'm against. He did not develop those stuff, made them look the way they look or set limitations and guide lines for them. If what he did was disapprove a product that would not set apple aside, he did good as a CEO. A company should not release products that will harm it and it's name.

He is a good CEO, just not the man god people make him out to be.

Of course he's not the "man-god" people make him out to be, but the majority of people don't make him out to be one, just a very smart and very influential figure in our culture. Only the most deranged Apple supporter thinks he's anything more than that, and this type of zealotry seems to be implied that ANYONE who shows a strong positive inclination towards Apple as a company and Jobs in particular is equivalent to said zealots. Which creates the douchebags that rail against any positivity regarding Apple just for the sake of filling what they perceive to be a void and trying to fill their own personal need to be disassociated from what they believe to be "corporation-led sheep" or a "cult of personality" or "uniformity", or whatever stupidity they want to call it this time.

 

[flsh]

Of course he's not the "man-god" people make him out to be, but the majority of people don't make him out to be one, just a very smart and very influential figure in our culture. Only the most deranged Apple supporter thinks he's anything more than that, and this type of zealotry seems to be implied that ANYONE who shows a strong positive inclination towards Apple as a company and Jobs in particular is equivalent to said zealots. Which creates the douchebags that rail against any positivity regarding Apple just for the sake of filling what they perceive to be a void and trying to fill their own personal need to be disassociated from what they believe to be "corporation-led sheep" or a "cult of personality" or "uniformity", or whatever stupidity they want to call it this time.

Read some of the posts in this thread. Some people here really do think he is a man god.
He is a very good CEO, but crediting him with things he did not do? That is absurd.
I will enjoy every good Apple product that I own, but I will not do so while thinking "Oh how I wish Steve Jobs was my father so I could be a son of a god", like it seems some of the people here feel. (Yes, major hyperbole)
Also, all of that is only in regard to his professional part in Apple. If the things people said about him on the personal level are true, he is a huge idiot. That is another distinction some people here don't make (This is targeted at the people thinking he's an idiot for not admitting he is his first born's father. Yes, he is. Does not mean he is a bad CEO).

Of course, it's a lot more funny to pick on the people who have no idea about the people behind the curtains at all because that stems off of stupidity, while the people who pick on him being an asshole are just being human (because honestly, he is an asshole). If everyone here would read some of the stuff that's about those people they would have a very different opinion of the man. Hopefully it's the one crediting him for the stuff he did do, and crediting the people who did the other stuff as well.

 

[Timbuktu]

Sometimes it is this conflict that makes him an interesting figure. Yes, he is an asshole, but people still flock to him. He can really tear people down in business, but he is also proven right on most occasions. He got rich young, failed and got back up again. He doesn't have to be perfect to be an icon to an industry that's as flawed as he is. It just so happens that the industry he's in was very important, he has a personality and a story that is more interesting than pretty any other figure and he's only of the very few from the group who has been there from beginning of the Valley that's still visible and active.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

While this is good to know, and I do have praise for the guy (and any other person who made it in life), can you really say he deserves all the praise people give him?
He did not come up with the end product. The team did, even if it took more than 1 try. Saying "The iPod is Steve's idea! he made it!" is wrong and dumb. That is what I'm against. He did not develop those stuff, made them look the way they look or set limitations and guide lines for them. If what he did was disapprove a product that would not set apple aside, he did good as a CEO. A company should not release products that will harm it and it's name.

He is a good CEO, just not the man god people make him out to be.

I agree to a certain extent, but honestly, I haven't really seen anyone say that the iPod was all Steve's idea and that he made it. Jobs himself would not agree with that and the contribution of the iPod team is well documented. It was his baby though, and he was the one that charged that team with building the initial device. That says a lot.

Also, who here thinks that he is a "man-god"? In a few short pages he's gone from "pioneer", to "icon" (two labels I happen to agree with), to a "man-god". A number of people in this thread admire him, but I really haven't seen excessive praise or admiration. Over hyperbole indeed.

 

[charlequin]

If there had been no iPod, mp3 players still would have been popular. It's like crediting Microsoft for the creation of the spreadsheet because Excel is the most used spreadsheet in the world. In both cases the companies came along afterward and drove the real innovators out of business.

This is actually a good comparison to the benefit of both products (even though you clearly meant it as a slam on both). Like the iPod, Excel was released and took off like a rocket because it gave up on a long list of persnickety technical "features" in favor of just doing what the consumer wanted it to do right out of the box. Both went into fields where users were limping along on crummy, sub-optimal products and made tons of money by producing the right product.

 

[Terrell]

Read some of the posts in this thread. Some people here really do think he is a man god.
He is a very good CEO, but crediting him with things he did not do? That is absurd.

I think people are missing the mark here with some of their quotes. No, he didn't "create" or "invent" the iPod, for instance. But the iPod in and of itself would not have been successful without the one feature that hugely differentiated it from other MP3 players at the time: auto-sync with an existing compiled library and hierarchy of music. Which was something implemented into iTunes at the behest of Steve Jobs. He made it successful not by the hardware or the marketing, but by co-ordinating a product that offered something that made it user-accessible in large magnitude and brought the digital music player to the forefront of consumer technology.
He didn't design or produce the components of the iMac, but he insisted on an attractive all-in-one design on an understanding that other PC manufacturers didn't have: that a computer is nothing more than interactive furniture. One doesn't buy an antique dining room table and then accompany it with lawn chairs, but people were forced into buying (let's face it) butt-ugly computers to accompany their homes. People saw computers as things you HIDE, and his direction made them more approachable and present in the modern home, instead of tucked away out of sight in a study or a geek's bedroom.
Jobs didn't create the iLife application suite, but his goal when returning to Apple was to create software that would position the Mac (and computers in general) as a media and lifestyle hub, and so it brought digital photograph databasing, movie editing and independent music production to the vast majority of people.
This is all without mentioning the iPhone.

All of these changes in how people look at computers and technology were revolutionized by Steve Jobs' direct influence on the direction of Apple and its products, an approach to technology which then quickly precipitated to the rest of the industry. This precipitation happened so rapidly that people are of the mistaken assumption that these changes were "inevitable", but those in the technology sector know better, which is why most general technology media outlets will say some of the same things that people in this thread are.
People are saying the wrong things in this thread about why Jobs is one of the most (if not THE most) influential people in consumer technology and an icon for the digital generation. But just because people aren't crediting him properly doesn't mean that he hasn't had an unprecedented influence on how we use technology. He's no god among men, and I personally don't care if I ever meet the man or anything of the sort, but more credit is due than the nay-sayers in this thread are allowing.

 

[Phoenix]

(Disclaimer - by design I don't mean look. He is responsible for Jonathan Ive working for Apple. But again, that only shows he is a good CEO, not the god of all things Apple)

The man built the company from the ground up, went to battle with Gates, went into exile because of his board of directors, founded Next, then after Apple realized that they were headed down the toilet went and got Jobs back to rebuild the company into what it is today? Yeah, he is the guy who is what made Apple what it is today. If not for Jobs, Apple would be exactly where Gateway computers is.

 

[border]

People have no compunctions about labeling Bill Gates an icon, but if you went over his last 10-15 years with as much scrutiny as you give to Jobs, you probably wouldn't find anything worthwhile.

That thread has made my day, thank you!

People always like to laugh at the naysayers from the announcement of the first iPod. But they were all right, given the product that was announced. iPod only supported FireWire and was not compatible with PCs. If it had stayed in that state, it would have nowhere near the relevance it does today.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

People have no compunctions about labeling Bill Gates an icon, but if you went over his last 10-15 years with as much scrutiny as you give to Jobs, you probably wouldn't find anything worthwhile.



People always like to laugh at the naysayers from the announcement of the first iPod. But they were all right, given the product that was announced. iPod only supported FireWire and was not compatible with PCs. If it had stayed in that state, it would have nowhere near the relevance it does today.

It was pretty obvious that they would branch out, and it did quickly. And I believe it supported both firewire and USB out of the gate.

But yes. those who complain about those things weren't so wrong, but those who were insisting that Apple needed to release a PDA (which are dead now) or that it just *had* to have wi-fi, or that it would flop since there were already HDD mp3 players-- those people are all worth laughing at.

 

[border]

What happened to Gateway anyhow?

 

[StopMakingSense]

It was pretty obvious that they would branch out, and it did quickly. And I believe it supported both firewire and USB out of the gate.

Nope. Original had a standard FW port on it.

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

Steve Jobs wrote a letter to put this thread back on topic

Dear Apple Community,

For the first time in a decade, I'm getting to spend the holiday season with my family, rather than intensely preparing for a Macworld keynote.

Unfortunately, my decision to have Phil deliver the Macworld keynote set off another flurry of rumors about my health, with some even publishing stories of me on my deathbed.

I've decided to share something very personal with the Apple community so that we can all relax and enjoy the show tomorrow.

As many of you know, I have been losing weight throughout 2008. The reason has been a mystery to me and my doctors. A few weeks ago, I decided that getting to the root cause of this and reversing it needed to become my #1 priority.

Fortunately, after further testing, my doctors think they have found the cause — a hormone imbalance that has been "robbing" me of the proteins my body needs to be healthy. Sophisticated blood tests have confirmed this diagnosis.

The remedy for this nutritional problem is relatively simple and straightforward, and I've already begun treatment. But, just like I didn't lose this much weight and body mass in a week or a month, my doctors expect it will take me until late this Spring to regain it. I will continue as Apple's CEO during my recovery.

I have given more than my all to Apple for the past 11 years now. I will be the first one to step up and tell our Board of Directors if I can no longer continue to fulfill my duties as Apple's CEO. I hope the Apple community will support me in my recovery and know that I will always put what is best for
Apple first.

So now I've said more than I wanted to say, and all that I am going to say, about this.

Steve

 

[Ghost]

Good news.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Good news! Hope Steve is on the road to recovery and feeling better soon. Glad he acknowledged the issue, and I'm sure share holders are too.

 

[rezuth]

Told you this all along.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Good to hear.

 

[TheWolf]

Heh, it always seems like Steve is seething with anger when he has to discuss his health.

 

[donkeymonkey]

If Steve says so in a letter, it must be true.

Reality distortion field, the shareholders edition.

 

[rezuth]

If Steve says so in a letter, it must be true.

Reality distortion field, the shareholders edition.

Dude, its illegal for him to lie about his health condition. Please be quiet and hide under the rock you belong.

 

[donkeymonkey]

Please be quiet and hide under the rock you belong.

Did I hit a nerve?

 

[NYR]

Apple stock up 4.54% as of 12:17 EST, his letter worked!!

(Don't kid yourself, that is the point. Also, this is not a bait. It's an obvious business move to squash rumors that cause the stock to drop. I totally support him in this venture. Good health to him and hope he is okay. The stock shouldn't be influenced that way by his health, it's unfair.)

 

[M3wThr33]

Oh look, he was sick. I was right.

 

[D4Danger]

Apple stock up 4.54% as of 12:17 EST, his letter worked!!

it was that or that little event that kicks off tomorrow where the launch all their new products.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

it was that or that little event that kicks off tomorrow where the launch all their new products.

Considering the rumored line-up, I'm betting it was Steve's letter.

 

[Phoenix]

Steve Jobs wrote a letter to put this thread back on topic

Hmm... looks like Steve and I have something in common, though I don't suffer from it any more.

 

[Phoenix]

Heh, it always seems like Steve is seething with anger when he has to discuss his health.

Would you be jumping for joy at having to announce publicly something which is really nobody's business except yours and your family's?

 

[D4Danger]

Hmm... looks like Steve and I have something in common, though I don't suffer from it any more.

being rich?

 

[Phoenix]

What happened to Gateway anyhow?

They've lost most of their distribution deals, blown through a shitload of cash on a poorly thought out retail strategy and are living on in obscurity as a retailer of PCs and notebooks from their website.

 

[Phoenix]

being rich?

:lol.... I wish. Maybe one day...

 

[titiklabingapat]

They've lost most of their distribution deals, blown through a shitload of cash on a poorly thought out retail strategy and are living on in obscurity as a retailer of PCs and notebooks from their website.

And TV shopping channels. Don;t forget TV shopping channels, mang.

 

[border]

They've lost most of their distribution deals, blown through a shitload of cash on a poorly thought out retail strategy and are living on in obscurity as a retailer of PCs and notebooks from their website.

What caused all of this though? I remember they used to be pretty huge. Did Dell just eat them alive?

 

[rezuth]

Did I hit a nerve?

Yes, being an annoying moron is always going to hit a nerve with me.

 

[Teddman]

As many of you know, I have been losing weight throughout 2008. The reason has been a mystery to me and my doctors. A few weeks ago, I decided that getting to the root cause of this and reversing it needed to become my #1 priority.

Fortunately, after further testing, my doctors think they have found the cause — a hormone imbalance that has been "robbing" me of the proteins my body needs to be healthy. Sophisticated blood tests have confirmed this diagnosis.

The remedy for this nutritional problem is relatively simple and straightforward, and I've already begun treatment.

Hopefully they have him on anabolic steroids, this is a case where they are the perfect treatment.

 

[donkeymonkey]

Yes, being an annoying moron is always going to hit a nerve with me.