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[Wildebeest]

Aphantasia is curable through practice. I reckon it is a more recent phenomena, and is likely one significantly effected by screen time in modern man.

The lack of internal monologue is interesting. I alternate between periods of language based thought and periods of non language based thought, and have multiple modes of dialogue based thought as well. Some are more useful than others, and some are baseline negative thought patterns.

Part of the study of Grammar in Rome was the subject of the four internal senses. Those senses were
A) The sensory memory
B) The synthesizing or common sense
C) The imagination
D) The instinct

Of course, what we have now as Grammar is a hollow shell of Grammar in its previous incarnations. I personally find that the labeling of the four internal senses is worth more than anything I was ever taught in school.

People in the ancient world didn't know shit about what was going on because they never bothered to test their hypothesis. Aristotle made claims about women having fewer teeth like he knew what he was talking about but never even bothered to check.

 

[01011001]

Then on top I can see the midi pattern playing and the wave forms as if it's on a spectrum.

Like this




This make any sense

if I listen to certain music I think of scenarios or images, not the literal structure of the music...
I thought that would be all that people "see" when they listen to stuff.

similar to listening to an audio book, you imagine what the scene looks like that you're listening to.

 

[Mossybrew]

I don't ever "see" anything with my eyes closed. I don't picture colors or objects. It's just black. Close your eyes, black. Period.

I can conceptualize things, but I don't actually see them.

So do you not dream then?

 

[NecrosaroIII]

I know a person who externalizes all their thoughts. They're always talking to themselves. They'll be in the kitchen alone and be like "I need to put the coffee grounds in the filter, then fill the water basin. Set the alarm for 750. Last of us was pretty good last night, I really liked how Joel looked in that episode. Man, when doe the DLC for Mario Kart come out?"

 

[01011001]

I know a person who externalizes all their thoughts. They're always talking to themselves. They'll be in the kitchen alone and be like "I need to put the coffee grounds in the filter, then fill the water basin. Set the alarm for 750. Last of us was pretty good last night, I really liked how Joel looked in that episode. Man, when doe the DLC for Mario Kart come out?"

uuuuuhhhh... won't that result is some really uncomfortable situations?
I would have said stuff like "why is that fat fuck in front of me taking so long" at the grocery store many a times for example

 

[Punished Miku]

So do you not dream then?

I do, but only remember it rarely. I dont think dreams are "vision" either. Its more like the fake memory of something you saw. Ive never literally seen something comparable to eyesight in a dream. I've had memory of seeing something, and I think most people just blur that distinction completely.

 

[MGHA]

For this reason is why I spend my time on an internet forum.

 

[Mossybrew]

I do, but only remember it rarely. I dont think dreams are "vision" either. Its more like the fake memory of something you saw. Ive never literally seen something comparable to eyesight in a dream. I've had memory of seeing something, and I think most people just blur that distinction completely.

Sure you could say it's a "fake" memory but it's definitely a visual memory. It varies for me, sometimes the imagery in dreams is more vague, but plenty of times the imagery is very visually clear. So if you have visual memory of "seeing" things in dreams, you are halfway there. Sure, obviously visualizing things is not the same as actually seeing things - otherwise people would go crazy not being able to tell what's real. But most people can certainly visualize objects and scenes at will in their brain - where all vision happens anyway.

 

[Days like these...]

This literally blows my mind, how don't some people have this? I have more than 1 narrator at any 1 time, discussing shit 24/7

Also some people don't Visually see music within their own mind, it conjures nothing Visually at all.......I picture it in full colour and 3d, almost like a film playing out

Isn't the narrator where the devil and angel on your shoulder comes from, apparently its not as common as I thought....ie, everyone has it

That's a flex

 

[Kacho]

Visualizing music .. what? Yea I just hear the sound.

Weed helps with that.

 

[01011001]

I do, but only remember it rarely. I dont think dreams are "vision" either. Its more like the fake memory of something you saw. Ive never literally seen something comparable to eyesight in a dream. I've had memory of seeing something, and I think most people just blur that distinction completely.

no you definitely see stuff in dreams.
people who suffer from sleep paralysis for example, where you are awake but your body still is kn REM sleep mode, will hallucinate about things around them as if they're still dreaming, but they are basically half awake looking into the real world.

the whole "sleep paralysis demon" stuff is a meme that originated from this phenomenon

 

[GymWolf]

Am i missing some clever joke here or....

 

[Punished Miku]

no you definitely see stuff in dreams.
people who suffer from sleep paralysis for example, where you are awake but your body still is kn REM sleep mode, will hallucinate about things around them as if they're still dreaming, but they are basically half awake looking into the real world.

the whole "sleep paralysis demon" stuff is a meme that originated from this phenomenon

Yeah, maybe. I don't think my brain is disabled or anything. I can have a dream about being in a boat going down a dark waterway with headlights lining a path and a mysterious dock in the distance. But am I actually seeing it? I honestly don't think so. I think I'm just imagining it. I don't think people see literal images in their brain. They are referencing the characteristics of objects in a thought. It's just thoughts.

Someone with a sleep disorder that's hallucinating in a half-awake state is not really what I'm talking about. I don't think you're seeing images unless you have visual hallucinations.

 

[INC]

Am i missing some clever joke here or....

Ask your inner narrator, if you have one

 

[Con_Z_ǝdʇ]

Am i missing some clever joke here or....

Can't you picture it in your head? Then you have aphantasie.

 

[kvltus lvlzvs]

People in the ancient world didn't know shit about what was going on because they never bothered to test their hypothesis. Aristotle made claims about women having fewer teeth like he knew what he was talking about but never even bothered to check.

Obviously the modern era is the zenith of intellect and enlightenment. You completely and utterly btfo'ed the very essence of my statement, and I will never recover.

 

[Mossybrew]

But am I actually seeing it? I honestly don't think so. I think I'm just imagining it. I don't think people see literal images in their brain. It's just thoughts.

You have to remember that actual seeing is a process that happens in your brain. When you are looking around your room right now, you are just seeing shit inside your brain. So yes, you can tap into the visual processing parts of your brain to imagine images - sure it's just "thoughts" but they are visual.

 

[GymWolf]

Can't you picture it in your head? Then you have aphantasie.

Is that what an internal narrator is? Visualizing images in your head?

I can do that.

But seeing music must be super rare.

 

[Punished Miku]

You have to remember that actual seeing is a process that happens in your brain. When you are looking around your room right now, you are just seeing shit inside your brain. So yes, you can tap into the visual processing parts of your brain to imagine images - sure it's just "thoughts" but they are visual.

I can acknowledge that, sure. Your optic nerves send signals to the brain. I get it. I just still remain pretty skeptical, because people so badly want to pretend they have some inner vision. The amount of people on the planet that swear they are communicating with a god tells me that I need a little more evidence than just witness testimony. I don't know if much of this can even be tested, so it's difficult to take it that seriously.

 

[Bragr]

Its fake, everyone can do it, they are just trying to show off in a weird way.

 

[Mossybrew]

But seeing music must be super rare.

Yeah that's a weird one, sounds like a form of synesthesia. Or a lot of drugs.

 

[INC]

Its fake, everyone can do it, they are just trying to show off in a weird way.

This is what I half think, how can you not have internal dialogue, or visualize anything, that would mean you have 0 imagination or creativity.......that makes no sense to me. You're basically 1 step away from a drone, a conscious meat suit, nothing more

That can't be right

 

[GymWolf]

My only superpower is having a lot of dejavu so i probably come from the future.

 

[GymWolf]

Yeah that's a weird one, sounds like a form of synesthesia. Or a lot of drugs.

I tried many type of mashrooms and i have a knack for salvia divinorum but i don't remember seeing the music, shit must be cool AF.

 

[Mossybrew]

This is what I half think, how can you not have internal dialogue, or visualize anything, that would mean you have 0 imagination or creativity.......that makes no sense to me. You're basically 1 step away from a drone, a conscious meat suit, nothing more

That can't be right

I think some people are just taking it too literally, like full on hearing-voices hallucinations or visualizing something with 4K HD clarity.

 

[Synless]

I can visualize objects, hold monologue, imagine scenes playing out… but wtf is this visualization of music? I do get goosebumps or frisson from music however, which many people don’t have that level of sensory.

 

[DeepEnigma]

In order for this to be "a thing," one would have to have zero thoughts or an inability to think.

 

[jason10mm]

My internal narrator is Morgan Freeman, life is good.

Not when he says "Oh shit, here it comes!"

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

I can't actively shit and drink coffee at the same time

 

[sankt-Antonio]

inner monologue yes. Seeing stuff in my mind , no. I’m creative when drawing or making music so my outlet is direct irl and not imaginary.

Thought is more abstract and layered than simple visualization. Can do it with eyes open, if that makes sense.

 

[INC]

I can visualize objects, hold monologue, imagine scenes playing out… but wtf is this visualization of music? I do get goosebumps or frisson from music however, which many people don’t have that level of sensory.

Like I described above, I can have imagery attached to the genre of music, like a music video playing out, and it's layered, the imagery part, where its pure consciousness creating it, and also logical, like a midi pattern playing the notes I'm hearing, or a spectrum analysers of the music

Like this

 

[Rival]

It’s amazing to me how different peoples brains are so different in how they function. My inner monologue is strictly my own voice and thoughts and I can fairly easily shut it off and sit in silence. I also have a very hard time visualizing things in my thoughts. Like I cannot close my eyes and “see” really anything. If I’m thinking about music or songs though I hear everything as it really would sound yet at the same time can’t hear my moms voice when thinking about her.

 

[Synless]

Like I described above, I can have imagery attached to the genre of music, like a music video playing out, and it's layered, the imagery part, where its pure consciousness creating it, and also logical, like a midi pattern playing the notes I'm hearing, or a spectrum analysers of the music

Like this

It seems to me that if you are not a musician, you should have been one. I can only imagine this as a perk that very few people have and that those who leverage it excel greatly.

 

[kvltus lvlzvs]

This is what I half think, how can you not have internal dialogue, or visualize anything, that would mean you have 0 imagination or creativity.......that makes no sense to me. You're basically 1 step away from a drone, a conscious meat suit, nothing more

That can't be right

On the schizo side of the internet, people have been rambling about spiritless humans for a long time. For example:

https://veilofreality.com/2011/04/18/organic-portals-soulless-humans/ (Haven't read it, just sending as an example.)

The general idea is that people have become empty of the true animating principal and are akin to repositories of influence from external sources and discarnate entities. They have either given up their "self" or were born without one and for the most part are akin to fish in a school, but in the much more complex world of human activity.

The Gnostics referred to them as hylics, as opposed to psychics and pneumatics. Hylics were basically soulless meat puppets who had given in entirely to their lower natures. Psychics were ruled by the mind - more or less your average person. This is where we would probably draw the line of internal monologue. Finally, there were Pneumatics, which are humans who had transcended into being ruled by spirit.

Im not entirely sold on any of these concepts, but they are extremely interesting and in some cases have helped me to make sense of the things going on in the world. So far as overall cosmology is concerned, Im sort of on the "maybe logic" train. Who knows what the absolute truth is. I think it exists, but don't have a firm enough grasp on many aspects of reality to make any claims about it at this time.

 

[01011001]

Yeah, maybe. I don't think my brain is disabled or anything. I can have a dream about being in a boat going down a dark waterway with headlights lining a path and a mysterious dock in the distance. But am I actually seeing it? I honestly don't think so. I think I'm just imagining it. I don't think people see literal images in their brain. They are referencing the characteristics of objects in a thought. It's just thoughts.

Someone with a sleep disorder that's hallucinating in a half-awake state is not really what I'm talking about. I don't think you're seeing images unless you have visual hallucinations.

while dreaming you absolutely see images.
and sleep paralysis hallucinations are directly linked to dreaming.
you're basically dreaming while being awake in that moment. your brain is still filled with chemicals that cause dreams, and your brain is still in sleep mode to the point where it prevents you from moving your body.

a more mild form of that can happen sometimes when you get woken up during REM sleep, it can happen that you see stuff that isn't there right after being woken up.

or when I'm really tired it sometimes happens that a noise or something wakes me up mid dream and I am in a state of waking up and falling asleep again, and during that moment it's almost as if I can't really tell if I'm still dreaming or awake, it feels like a mix of both for a few seconds.

but it's hard to define "seeing" things in your head.
I already said something along these lines in the thread about Aphantasia, where I questioned if people actually "see" things in their heads.
I certainly have "images" in my mind when I think about stuff. but I personally wouldn't call that "seeing" things.

 

[INC]

It seems to me that if you are not a musician, you should have been one. I can only imagine this as a perk that very few people have and that those who leverage it excel greatly.

Musician as in play an instrument no, but I do make music, and most of the time I make music that I see in my mind, as much I hear it, so it's like it's a conversation of imagery, but made up Sonically.........don't think I'm wording that correctly

 

[GymWolf]

So you people have someone who talk to you in your mind?

I don't have any narrator or inner voice...

 

[kvltus lvlzvs]

So you people have someone who talk to you in your mind?

I don't have any narrator or inner voice...

What would you say your process of internal perception looks like? Rather, how does it work? Do you think in symbol rather than language?

 

[Mossybrew]

So you people have someone who talk to you in your mind?

I don't have any narrator or inner voice...

Not someone, me. Like talking to yourself, just silently.

 

[GymWolf]

What would you say your process of internal perception looks like? Rather, how does it work? Do you think in symbol rather than language?

I don't know how to respond, i just don't have any voice talking to me.


Do you people really have internal dialogues with yourself, it sound like some introspective anime bullshit tbh

What do you mean with "process of internal projection"?

 

[GymWolf]

Not someone, me. Like talking to yourself, just silently.

But that is just...thinking.

Like right now i'm thinking what to eat tonight but i would not call that an inner voice, just me thinking to something.

 

[Mossybrew]

But that is just...thinking.

Yup.

 

[Punished Miku]

But that is just...thinking.

I only shitpost internally to myself.

 

[kvltus lvlzvs]

I don't know how to respond, i just don't have any voice talking to me.


Do you people really have internal dialogues with yourself, it sound like some introspective anime bullshit tbh

What do you mean with "process of internal projection"?

Perception. So, when you think, how does that play out? How is it that you relate your internal world to the external world?

Sometimes, I speak to myself in full on introspective anime bullshit manner. If I can do it with enough focus, it is oftentimes the most insightful perception I can manage and oftentimes makes me feel better about my life and circumstances. Oftentimes, the language comes across in a slightly more poetic manner as well.

Sometimes, my thoughts do play out in a language based manner, but it is more of a chatter, and lacks the clarity of focused thought.

Sometimes, my perception is symbolic. For example, a month ago I installed plumbing in my home. I had to visualize the layout of the piping and plumbing components prior to actually setting any pipe. I did not think of it as "I will lay this length of copper pipe and then use a 45 degree sharkbite to join it to this next length of pipe, which I will then attach a t joint to and run to the on demand hot water heater." - I visualized the symbolic representation of said components and joined them in my mind.

Sometimes, my inner sphere is a morass of tangled symbol and words lacking any form of coherent clarity. I could not tell you where the symbol ends and the words begin. This is usually when I am in what could be called "a funk"

 

[GymWolf]

This gif seems appropriate for a lot of people in here

 

[INC]

So you people have someone who talk to you in your mind?

I don't have any narrator or inner voice...

Yes.....me, its me talking to me, but many versions of me giving all opinions of each action. Like I said before it's like the me/self is head of a table in a board room, and the other me's (personalities, confidence, doubt, empathy, delusion, right, wrong) are given their own opinion on every outcome of any situation. This is none stop all the time.
Sometimes it's arguing, sometimes it's joking, sometimes it's literally like a film and a narrator to voicing shit as I go about my everyday life.
The narrator can also conjure imagery to said conversation, like your playing out scenarios that will never happen, but need to be considered. Like a court room, like one part of my narrator will be like "self (inc) take exhibit A scenario as evidence, as to why you should/shouldn't do this"


It is never silent in my head, I can't even imagine what that's like to have nothing but silence and a void of nothing.....

 

[Con_Z_ǝdʇ]

This is what I half think, how can you not have internal dialogue, or visualize anything, that would mean you have 0 imagination or creativity...

Creativity is not tied to imagination and / or visualization.

 

[INC]

But that is just...thinking.

And yet people still say they hear nothing........which is my point, that's just bat shit crazy. How can you have no internal voice/thought saying anything....

But apparently its a thing....

 

[Jinzo Prime]

I don't know how to respond, i just don't have any voice talking to me.


Do you people really have internal dialogues with yourself, it sound like some introspective anime bullshit tbh

What do you mean with "process of internal projection"?

Sorry bud, but an internal narrator is real. And yes, going to sleep is sometimes difficult when it doesn't stop.

 

[Wildebeest]

Obviously the modern era is the zenith of intellect and enlightenment. You completely and utterly btfo'ed the very essence of my statement, and I will never recover.

The modern era is the zenith of the enlightenment era, which happened after the ancient era. If you prefer ancient thinkers and dislike modern science, you are anti-enlightenment.