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[goomba]

LOL i havnt seen a psx vs n64 hardware debate in a good while.

Personally i think the gap between n64 and psx was considerable (larger than ps2 -->xbox easily). What can compare on psx to conker BFD, perfect dark, zelda oot, turok 2 etc?, its night and day.

 

[Spiritreaver]

For someone who has no preference you sure do a lot to try to defend that lil' device. No, the PSP is in the lead (based only on the launch window). This is a statement brought out clearly by the facts. Now, I do heavily believe that in the future it'll be much clearer that the DS ends up with more original content, but to say that the PSP will be 'just ports' (an assertion made by MSParis) is just factually false. And this is not even taking into account which handheld will end up the clear winner - whichever ends up the winner will be the one with the most original content by far. Who will win? I'm not making any predictions here, but it's a huge factor.

You know what, for a friend you've deeply offended me with the first comment. Especially since you know me, and how excited I am about the PSP, remember the night of the announcements? And yet you pull this crap out on the forums and call me something I am not. If you want to take these pesky jabs to someone you know outside the forums that you know it is a ile, than fine. The same goes to you. Since you make more nice PSP comments than DS, you're a fanboy. (See how retarded that is? Especially since I know you like all systems from the chat). So don't start that shit. I hate to be rude, but I don't even feel like commenting on the rest. I obivously have a preference, I've stated this on the forums before, but I don't dislike other systems because they are not that preference. I've hardly even made a lengthy DS defense post until this one. Most of my comments have been rather outside of debates and just comments looking at new software and whatnot. But whatever, now that you've read all 1300+ posts of mine and disregarded months of talk in the chat. You know me better than I do.

Very well put out, and I had a lot of information lacking to me at the time, and yes I do agree that the PSP WILL NOT be all ports. I wasn't defending him one bit. I was just trying to show you to make a more decent comparison. The DS launch in the US was under no competition, it was going to sell and sell out even with one game. The Japanese launch is much different. It has the PSP following it within a week, do you think Nintendo would be ill-witted enough to launch with just what we got here? I know you see this,

 

[explodet]

I believe that the PSP will dominate US sales too. There's just no buzz for it, and I don't think it's been selling rediculous amounts, even after Black Friday.

Just so I'm clear, you're saying the PSP will dominate US sales, and it's the DS that has no buzz for it?
The statement above is contradictory.

 

[neptunes]

Jesus why are you people so eager to pick a fight here. It's just the truth! FMVs were easily one of the strongest points of the PSX compared to the N64.

I'd say the nature of it's games library was it's major selling point.

 

[Amir0x]

You know what, for a friend you've deeply offended me with the first comment. Especially since you know me, and how excited I am about the PSP, remember the night of the announcements? And yet you pull this crap out on the forums and call me something I am not. If you want to take these pesky jabs to someone you know outside the forums that you know it is a ile, than fine. The same goes to you.

Do you have some guilt complex? I didn't call you anything, I just made an observation based on how you have responded to my posts (and my comments in general anywhere). In truth it was a playful JAB because we had this discussion before, but now I'm not so sure. The way you overreacted shows that I should reconsider my previous thought on this matter.

Since you make more nice PSP comments than DS, you're a fanboy. (See how retarded that is? Especially since I know you like all systems from the chat). So don't start that shit. I hate to be rude, but I don't even feel like commenting on the rest.

I did not call you a fanboy. I said for someone with no preference, you sure do go out of your way to defend it. In our personal conversations alone, this has proven true. My statement was a joke, and yet look how you reacted. I know who the ~true~ fanboys are, and I obviously do not think that was true of you. But, you yourself now acknowledge...

I obivously have a preference, I've stated this on the forums before, but I don't dislike other systems because they are not that preference.

...that you do have a preference. I was not even assuming that, which is why I said "for someone with no preference you sure do defend the lil' guy a lot." Now I have, by your own words, been proven wrong. I don't have a preference, that's the difference. I prefer both handhelds, and will display as such with my purchase. However, I will go out of my way to state what the truth is no matter my position. The truth happens to be that the PSP is not a system of only ports, or even mostly ports. The problem happens to be that the PSP is not even out yet, and you have decided to go ahead and make your "preference." How can you prefer one over another you have not even experienced? Of course you can, but it's not exactly a view I can value. Before this, I did not know you have a hard preference...and so I must admit I'm a little disappointed. But this does explain a lot about our conversations elsewhere.

I've hardly even made a lengthy DS defense post until this one. Most of my comments have been rather outside of debates and just comments looking at new software and whatnot. But whatever, now that you've read all 1300+ posts of mine and disregarded months of talk in the chat. You know me better than I do.

Well, it's trying to be nice for the sake of being nice. It's nice that you're not a troll like some people. Thank goodness for that. That's why I love you. But just because you're not a troll does not mean you don't have a trend to your posts or your statements on IRC, for instance. My trends are fairly easy to read - I'm extremely critical. You know that, I know that. It doesn't matter if it's Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft... I strive to see a higher standard in videogames. This is why I am so harsh on RPG stories, and this is why I'm so harsh in my debating and my excessive willingness to prove false statements to be, well, false.

Very well put out, and I had a lot of information lacking to me at the time, and yes I do agree that the PSP WILL NOT be all ports. I wasn't defending him one bit. I was just trying to show you to make a more decent comparison. The DS launch in the US was under no competition, it was going to sell and sell out even with one game. The Japanese launch is much different. It has the PSP following it within a week, do you think Nintendo would be ill-witted enough to launch with just what we got here? I know you see this.

No offense, I love you, but what you were doing was trying to make excuses. The DS launched in the US first. Period. What comes out in Japan is of little consequence to me, and frankly I could give two fucks about it. If you noticed, when I used my original PSP list... I only listed games that were all but guaranteed to come in the US. I don't care what comes out in Japan for PSP either; I'm not importing. To make valid comparrisons, you must compare what matters where it is relevant to you or I. And all the Mahjong(sp) games in the world mean shit to you and I. Neither does a One Piece Puzzle game, or a Demo Doko Issyo (or whatever that stupid cat shit vacation RPG is for PSP).

In the end, after all this bullshit I just wrote, the only questions I have are these. If you really didn't want to start a debate with me, why did you respond? If you really don't care to defend him (or by extension the DS), why did you respond? You seem to loathe debating with me, and yet every time you get into one and forget just how harsh I am you go into these long diatribes about what type of individual I am. In the end you wasted time defending a system you supposedly only have a "preference" for, were wrong in your assertions, and then overreacted by thinking I was doing anything other than joking with you.

That said, I still love you, and none of this matters. The end? The end.

 

[FeedMeAStrayCat]

LOL i havnt seen a psx vs n64 hardware debate in a good while.

Personally i think the gap between n64 and psx was considerable (larger than ps2 -->xbox easily). What can compare on psx to conker BFD, perfect dark, zelda oot, turok 2 etc?, its night and day.

You're so right on this..

I know some people disagree, but to me, the N64 was DEFINITELY more powerful than the PSOne. I know people ragged on the lack of texture variety (due to limited cart size) and such, but I'd much rather have that than a pixelated mess of shit. The "blurring" seen in some N64 games was too highly criticized. It didn't bother me at all, even when the blurring was very considerable (see the NBA In the Zone from Konami series). And some games looked f'in awesome for their day.. Perfect Dark, Turok 2, Banjo, Conker, etc. Nothing on the PSOne came even close, in my opinion. I mean.. some games looked pretty good (the FF games, Metal Gear Solid, etc.), but the shimmering textures, clipping, lack of filtering, etc. really killed it for me.

The lack of filtering for the DS isn't as much of a problem in my mind, because of the smaller screen. Yeah, you can notice it, but it's not nearly as bad as playing a PSOne on a full television screen.

 

[Spiritreaver]

Do you have some guilt complex? I didn't call you anything, I just made an observation based on how you have responded to my posts (and my comments in general anywhere). In truth it was a playful JAB because we had this discussion before, but now I'm not so sure. The way you overreacted shows that I should reconsider my previous thought on this matter.



I did not call you a fanboy. I said for someone with no preference, you sure do go out of your way to defend it. In our personal conversations alone, this has proven true. My statement was a joke, and yet look how you reacted. I know who the ~true~ fanboys are, and I obviously do not think that was true of you. But, you yourself now acknowledge...



...that you do have a preference. I was not even assuming that, which is why I said "for someone with no preference you sure do defend the lil' guy a lot." Now I have, by your own words, been proven wrong. I don't have a preference, that's the difference. I prefer both handhelds, and will display as such with my purchase. However, I will go out of my way to state what the truth is no matter my position. The truth happens to be that the PSP is not a system of only ports, or even mostly ports. The problem happens to be that the PSP is not even out yet, and you have decided to go ahead and make your "preference." How can you prefer one over another you have not even experienced? Of course you can, but it's not exactly a view I can value. Before this, I did not know you have a hard preference...and so I must admit I'm a little disappointed. But this does explain a lot about our conversations elsewhere.

I thought this was obvious? ANd it's disappointing? It's kind of impossible to enjoy video games without a preference, whether it towards a design, genre, system, etc. You're taking preference a little far I think. I generally have a habit of liking Nintendo games, some of them anyways, that's what I mean by preference. It's just a style of gaming that I enjoy. Nintendo's handhelds have also been my favorite systems to own, so it's only logical that I'm interested in the next line of it. That's about it though, it doesn't discourage me from enjoying other systems or products. I'd be a fool to do that, and a hypocrite.

Well, it's trying to be nice for the sake of being nice. It's nice that you're not a troll like some people. Thank goodness for that. That's why I love you. But just because you're not a troll does not mean you don't have a trend to your posts or your statements on IRC, for instance. My trends are fairly easy to read - I'm extremely critical. You know that, I know that. It doesn't matter if it's Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft... I strive to see a higher standard in videogames. This is why I am so harsh on RPG stories, and this is why I'm so harsh in my debating and my excessive willingness to prove false statements to be, well, false.

I'm fine with this, completely. Like I said, I wasn't supporting the guy at all. I'll elaborate further in a minute.

No offense, I love you, but what you were doing was trying to make excuses. The DS launched in the US first. Period. What comes out in Japan is of little consequence to me, and frankly I could give two fucks about it. If you noticed, when I used my original PSP list... I only listed games that were all but guaranteed to come in the US. I don't care what comes out in Japan for PSP either; I'm not importing. To make valid comparrisons, you must compare what matters where it is relevant to you or I. And all the Mahjong(sp) games in the world mean shit to you and I. Neither does a One Piece Puzzle game, or a Demo Doko Issyo (or whatever that stupid cat shit vacation RPG is for PSP).

That's the problem, that's subjective. You list a fine example, I am actually really interested in One-Line Puzzle as it it's a new type of puzzle game I've never seen before. I know very little about it, and I sitlld on't understand how the game works, but that has be intrigued. Sadly you would have not included that in your list as it didn't matter to you. That's why for the sake of an argument, it would be best to not try to dig around information for an argument, and just give the simple facts and leave it as that. You still came out correct, I just feel that that argument is much more stronger than the first.

In the end, after all this bullshit I just wrote, the only questions I have are these. If you really didn't want to start a debate with me, why did you respond? If you really don't care to defend him (or by extension the DS), why did you respond? You seem to loathe debating with me, and yet every time you get into one and forget just how harsh I am you go into these long diatribes about what type of individual I am. In the end you wasted time defending a system you supposedly only have a "preference" for, were wrong in your assertions, and then overreacted by thinking I was doing anything other than joking with you.

That said, I still love you, and none of this matters. The end? The end.

The only problem I have with you joking about it, is because it's on the forum. I can't take a claim like that as a joke, from anyone because it's percieved by others as well. There are many people on this forum who do not know me, and don't know my stances on many games. That wouldn't see that as a joke. I definitely overreacted in taking it personally, but god I don't know how many times I'll end up apoligizing for taking things personally. I can't help that. But I just don't want some kind of label attached to me from other forum members. I don't know of a better way to explain it.

Now why did I respond? It wasn't to defend him or to really debate at all. I was trying to point out to you that it wasn't a fair comparison, and that there could be mistakes brought out because of that. I don't think defending anything makes me anything. Like you yourself did by defending the PSP. I don't know if you keep trying to make jokes, but stops stretching the term preference. You keep using it in emphasis to try and make a point. If defending something makes me immediately makes it more than a "preference", than you're in the wrong too. I was just trying to enter the debate with some kind of open discussion on it, I didn't have any intent to show my personal stance on the issue or the systems. I was just trying to look at facts.

Meh, I don't know where to go with this, but a fool am I for ever posting.

EDIT: Regardless, yes I still love you too. I'm not that mad really, I just took it harshly at first. I have a really poor time figuring out sarcasm on the forums, and I couldn't tell if this was a jab at me or not. I wasn't walking into the joke with some preconcieved notion to defend some fanboy image that I don't have. Basically, you were trying to say I came in to defend something that isn't there, which probably means it is there. Sorry I cannot think of a better term on it. That's not what I was thinking. I actually did think it was a poke at me, I couldn't find the srcasm in it on the forums, and I don't think any one else on the forum could either.

You can think less of me now if you want. I would too.

 

[jiggle]

but the shimmering textures, clipping, lack of filtering, etc. really killed it for me.

The lack of filtering for the DS isn't as much of a problem in my mind, because of the smaller screen. Yeah, you can notice it, but it's not nearly as bad as playing a PSOne on a full television screen.

Good save.

 

[Amir0x]

I thought this was obvious? ANd it's disappointing? It's kind of impossible to enjoy video games without a preference, whether it towards a design, genre, system, etc. You're taking preference a little far I think. I generally have a habit of liking Nintendo games, some of them anyways, that's what I mean by preference. It's just a style of gaming that I enjoy. Nintendo's handhelds have also been my favorite systems to own, so it's only logical that I'm interested in the next line of it. That's about it though, it doesn't discourage me from enjoying other systems or products. I'd be a fool to do that, and a hypocrite.

I watched Snow White: A Tale of Terror today. It was pretty good! I reccomend it. It's a dark telling of the Snow White tale! There's blood and Sigourney Weaver sex!

I'm fine with this, completely. Like I said, I wasn't supporting the guy at all. I'll elaborate further in a minute.

Elaboration is the tool of Yobnaf.

That's the problem, that's subjective. You list a fine example, I am actually really interested in One-Line Puzzle as it it's a new type of puzzle game I've never seen before. I know very little about it, and I sitlld on't understand how the game works, but that has be intrigued. Sadly you would have not included that in your list as it didn't matter to you. That's why for the sake of an argument, it would be best to not try to dig around information for an argument, and just give the simple facts and leave it as that. You still came out correct, I just feel that that argument is much more stronger than the first.

Japan is a little island country that is home to the real big foot and also pink chocobos!

The only problem I have with you joking about it, is because it's on the forum. I can't take a claim like that as a joke, from anyone because it's percieved by others as well. There are many people on this forum who do not know me, and don't know my stances on many games. That wouldn't see that as a joke. I definitely overreacted in taking it personally, but god I don't know how many times I'll end up apoligizing for taking things personally. I can't help that. But I just don't want some kind of label attached to me from other forum members. I don't know of a better way to explain it.

I once held a DS in my hand, and it was very cool.

Now why did I respond? It wasn't to defend him or to really debate at all. I was trying to point out to you that it wasn't a fair comparison, and that there could be mistakes brought out because of that. I don't think defending anything makes me anything. Like you yourself did by defending the PSP. I don't know if you keep trying to make jokes, but stops stretching the term preference. You keep using it in emphasis to try and make a point. If defending something makes me immediately makes it more than a "preference", than you're in the wrong too. I was just trying to enter the debate with some kind of open discussion on it, I didn't have any intent to show my personal stance on the issue or the systems. I was just trying to look at facts.

I'm responding to show my support of long, drawn out responses! You have done well, my student! Go, debate like the wind! Spend hours gathering information like I do, only to have three people on obscure internet forums read your work!

I am so alone

Meh, I don't know where to go with this, but a fool am I for ever posting.

EDIT: Regardless, yes I still love you too. I'm not that mad really, I just took it harshly at first. I have a really poor time figuring out sarcasm on the forums, and I couldn't tell if this was a jab at me or not. I wasn't walking into the joke with some preconcieved notion to defend some fanboy image that I don't have. Basically, you were trying to say I came in to defend something that isn't there, which probably means it is there. Sorry I cannot think of a better term on it. That's not what I was thinking. I actually did think it was a poke at me, I couldn't find the srcasm in it on the forums, and I don't think any one else on the forum could either.

You can think less of me now if you want. I would too.

The less I think the more I want to know that I love you more in the world of lessingdon.

 

[Spiritreaver]

I watched Snow White: A Tale of Terror today. It was pretty good! I reccomend it. It's a dark telling of the Snow White tale! There's blood and Sigourney Weaver sex!

Elaboration is the tool of Yobnaf.

Japan is a little island country that is home to the real big foot and also pink chocobos!

I once held a DS in my hand, and it was very cool.

I'm responding to show my support of long, drawn out responses! You have done well, my student! Go, debate like the wind! Spend hours gathering information like I do, only to have three people on obscure internet forums read your work!

I am so alone

The less I think the more I want to know that I love you more in the world of lessingdon.

This a post of great quality indeed. I simply couldn't think of anything to respond to it with other than. You're the cheese fondue with my stew, and for that I love you! <3

 

[Kobun Heat]

Before this turns into a lover's quarrel, let me advance my theory that the final design for the DS was given to Nintendo one night by seven foot tall broccoli men who descended from Jupiter in their spaceship made of cheese, walked into Yamauchi's war room, and left the plans on his nightstand along with a plate of cookies.

I have no proof whatsoever of this, which makes it apporiximately as substantive as the "Nintendo had no idea Sony was making a portable, so when they announced it at E3 the company shat its collective BVDs then decided to add a touch screen to their existing prototype, just for the hell of it, because they're retarded like that" theory of the DS' conception.

 

[xsarien]

I watched Snow White: A Tale of Terror today. It was pretty good! I reccomend it. It's a dark telling of the Snow White tale! There's blood and Sigourney Weaver sex!

Not to stray from the topic, but I've seen this movie and need to simply come out and say that Ami doesn't know what he's talking about. It's the dullest thing to ever dull.

 

[Amir0x]

Not to stray from the topic, but I've seen this movie and need to simply come out and say that Ami doesn't know what he's talking about. It's the dullest thing to ever dull.

Oh come on! Sigourney Weaver sex! How can you turn that down?

 

[xsarien]

Oh come on! Sigourney Weaver sex! How can you turn that down?

Dude, I'll fight you!

 

[Shogmaster]

Before this turns into a lover's quarrel, let me advance my theory that the final design for the DS was given to Nintendo one night by seven foot tall broccoli men who descended from Jupiter in their spaceship made of cheese, walked into Yamauchi's war room, and left the plans on his nightstand along with a plate of cookies.

I have no proof whatsoever of this, which makes it apporiximately as substantive as the "Nintendo had no idea Sony was making a portable, so when they announced it at E3 the company shat its collective BVDs then decided to add a touch screen to their existing prototype, just for the hell of it, because they're retarded like that" theory of the DS' conception.

Yeah. I remember you having this exact reaction when I first presented my theory, which by the way, is fast becoming the prefered theory of GA conspiracy buffs. I'm so proud I could shit.

 

[Shinobi]

I KNOW SOMEONE WHO HAS THIS. I need to visit his place stat.

That's almost as cool as your avatar. Almost. Seriously, if you ever get to try it out, let me know.

Some other games that might or might not lie in Sega's R&D wasteland...Sonic RPG (Sega CD), Eternal Champions 3 (Saturn), Virtua Cop (32X), X-Men 3 (32X, developed by Scavenger), Giest Force (DC...remember the hype around that game? :lol), Chaken: The Forever Man (DC), Super GT (Saturn/Eclipse), Sonic X-Treme (Saturn) and Sonic Adventure (Saturn/Eclipse). Can't forget the Saturn version of Shenmue as well...would love to see more of that version. And I was gonna mention Propeller Arena, but I guess that's already out there, heh.

All of that doesn't include some of the prototype and near-finished hardware like TeleGenesis, Sega VR, Neptune, Pluto, and I suspect a Lockheed-developed Model 4 might be hanging around somewhere as well. Ah, what I wouldn't do to uncover these secrets.

 

[Kobun Heat]

Yeah. I remember you having this exact reaction when I first presented my theory, which by the way, is fast becoming the prefered theory of GA conspiracy buffs.

Which really doesn't bode well for its veracity.

 

[Shogmaster]

Which really doesn't bode well for its veracity.

Who cares? Now there's pictorial evidence! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA~ You lose I win book boy!

 

[Kobun Heat]

It's proof that, at some point, Nintendo put together a development board for a next-gen handheld without a dual screen or touch screen. I'd expect that to be the case as it seems like a natural progression. Show me where this proves that the addition of the touch screen was a panicked reaction to the PSP announcement.

 

[Shogmaster]

It's proof that, at some point, Nintendo put together a development board for a next-gen handheld without a dual screen or touch screen. I'd expect that to be the case as it seems like a natural progression. Show me where this proves that the addition of the touch screen was a panicked reaction to the PSP announcement.

Never say die eh? I guess I sorta admire that.

Maybe you with your publishing clout should email the fellow at that website and see when the pic was sent to him and/or if he knows when the pic was taken. Also see if he knows more in depth info.

 

[Kobun Heat]

Why?

 

[Rocket Punch]

Wow, some weird thread. A tale of love and betrayal... and reconcilliation! Group hug!

Hugs his DS <3

 

[Shogmaster]

Why?

Why? @_o

Oh I don't know, I just thought someone who's so interested in Nintendo history (enough to write a damn book) might be interested in finding out the truth about the origin of the DS.

I guess I was wrong. DS is all about innovation and not about a last minute redesign, cause Nintendo wouldn't ever make mistakes, eh? Gee, I can't wait to read your book. Full of objective text I'm sure.

 

[AniHawk]

Why? @_o

Oh I don't know, I just thought someone who's so interested in Nintendo history (enough to write a damn book) might be interested in finding out the truth about the origin of the DS.

I guess I was wrong. DS is all about innovation and not about a last minute redesign, cause Nintendo wouldn't ever make mistakes, eh? Gee, I can't wait to read your book. Full of objective text I'm sure.

Good lord man, read the book or do a little research on it before knocking it. You know it just may be possible that everything isn't so black and white as in the tiny little world you live in.

 

[Shogmaster]

Good lord man, read the book or do a little research on it before knocking it. You know it just may be possible that everything isn't so black and white as in the tiny little world you live in.

Where did I knock the book? Hey, I'm sure it's a great freaking read. But knowing the author, I can't be sure that's it's exactly "objective". That's all I'm saying. Kobun seem to be from the school that can't admit Nintendo can ever really screw up. Everything is planned or is an experiment in innovation. :rolleyes

 

[GDJustin]

Why? @_o

Oh I don't know, I just thought someone who's so interested in Nintendo history (enough to write a damn book) might be interested in finding out the truth about the origin of the DS.

I guess I was wrong. DS is all about innovation and not about a last minute redesign, cause Nintendo wouldn't ever make mistakes, eh? Gee, I can't wait to read your book. Full of objective text I'm sure.

 

[Shogmaster]

Am I the only one that's blown away that someone who's written a book on Nintendo history don't care to find out the real story behind that photo? "Why" indeed.

 

[fart]

haha, marriage proposal. awesome

 

[Chittagong]

To sum up - everything here boils down to five questions we may never get answers for:

1. Was the project that became Nintendo DS intended to be the GB follow-up at some point?

2. If so, what was the motivation of differentiate it from the GB line?

3. When was this decision made?

4. What was the main motivation to introduce a second screen?

5. How will the GB product line evolve now?

 

[AniHawk]

Shog, the book is about the history of Japanese video games. Of course it's going to have the history of Nintendo in it. Steven Kent's book starts in the 1850s or 1860s with some early form of pinball, but the entire book isn't about pinball.

"Game Over" is the book written about Nintendo and Nintendo only.

 

[Folder]

Day one, E3 2003:

Nintendo exec #1: Oh shit! Sony is going to launch some kind of portable PlayStation 2. We’re fucked!

Nintendo exec #2: But that’s not how things work! Portable hardware must be based on fifteen-year old home console hardware. Isn’t there some kind of international treaty about this?

Nintendo exec #1: Amazingly not! What are we going to do?

Nintendo exec #2: Do we have *anything* at all that’s better than a Game Boy Advance?

Nintendo exec #1: Just some shrunk-down N64 gubbins we were planning on launching in seven years! Oh god!

Nintendo exec #2: Fear not! Get it! Put it in a console and add some kind of, um, let’s see… Yes, a gimmick! That’s it! A great big fantastic gimmick!

Nintendo exec #1: But. Um, won’t our machine be stupidly underpowered compared to Sony’s?

Nintendo exec #2: Shit up! Just think about the gimmick and it will al be fine. Now, I’m off to put my fingers in my ears and hum as loud as possible. I suggest you do the same.

And so, the DS was born.

 

[Shogmaster]

Shog, the book is about the history of Japanese video games. Of course it's going to have the history of Nintendo in it. Steven Kent's book starts in the 1850s or 1860s with some early form of pinball, but the entire book isn't about pinball.

"Game Over" is the book written about Nintendo and Nintendo only.

Missing the point (BTW, I've been going through Kent's book slowly for the last couple of months. Interesting stuff.).

I'm saying that as a gaming historian/journalist/whatever, the fact that Kobun has no desire to find out the truth behind the photo and the DS development makes him nothing more than a more literate and educated than average, fanboy. If he had any objective blood in his veins, he should already be on the case about that photo (where there is an embedded freakin web addy to follow up for cryin out loud).

Day one, E3 2003:

Nintendo exec #1: Oh shit! Sony is going to launch some kind of portable PlayStation 2. We’re fucked!

Nintendo exec #2: But that’s not how things work! Portable hardware must be based on fifteen-year old home console hardware. Isn’t there some kind of international treaty about this?

Nintendo exec #1: Amazingly not! What are we going to do?

Nintendo exec #2: Do we have *anything* at all that’s better than a Game Boy Advance?

Nintendo exec #1: Just some shrunk-down N64 gubbins we were planning on launching in seven years! Oh god!

Nintendo exec #2: Fear not! Get it! Put it in a console and add some kind of, um, let’s see… Yes, a gimmick! That’s it! A great big fantastic gimmick!

Nintendo exec #1: But. Um, won’t our machine be stupidly underpowered compared to Sony’s?

Nintendo exec #2: Shit up! Just think about the gimmick and it will al be fine. Now, I’m off to put my fingers in my ears and hum as loud as possible. I suggest you do the same.

And so, the DS was born.

That was more or less my take, except for the funny dialog. :lol

 

[goomba]

For all the DS naysayers

Are you really that against an experimental platform?. Should videogames forever be based on buttons and d-pad/analog stick ?

 

[Shogmaster]

For all the DS naysayers

Are you really that against an experimental platform?. Should videogames forever be based on buttons and d-pad/analog stick ?

I say experiment on their own time and dime. And it's not like this is the first damn time for stylus gaming! It's been done for fucking years people! Wake the hell up and just ask those of us that used it for years (PDA users).

 

[mrklaw]

I say experiment on their own time and dime. And it's not like this is the first damn time for stylus gaming! It's been done for fucking years people! Wake the hell up and just ask those of us that used it for years (PDA users).

While your previous comments may have merit, this particular one stinks. How you can say touchscreen/stylus *gaming* has been done for years amazes me. Yes, you get games on PDAs. But that doesn't equal gaming in the broader context of the console market. PDA games are usually garage affairs, with a couple of people knocking them together. And quite often they have terrible and misplaced stylus controls, simply because PDAs lack decent 'normal' controls.

Whatever your thoughts on the console as a whole, DS is the first real use of a touchscreen as display and interface in mainstream gaming.

 

[AniHawk]

I say experiment on their own time and dime. And it's not like this is the first damn time for stylus gaming! It's been done for fucking years people! Wake the hell up and just ask those of us that used it for years (PDA users).

It's new to mainstream gamers and the majority of game developers this go, though. Kinda like how PC controllers featured rumble technology (or so I've heard) before it was taken on for pretty much every system N64 onward.

On a side note, I missed that first pic waaaaaaay back in the first post. I'd like to know when that shot was taken, who took it, and if they'd know anything about the development process as well.

 

[goomba]

Yes touchscreens arnt a new technology. But having a touchscreen that acts as a customisable control scheme for the action in the second screen is.

 

[Shogmaster]

While your previous comments may have merit, this particular one stinks. How you can say touchscreen/stylus *gaming* has been done for years amazes me. Yes, you get games on PDAs. But that doesn't equal gaming in the broader context of the console market. PDA games are usually garage affairs, with a couple of people knocking them together. And quite often they have terrible and misplaced stylus controls, simply because PDAs lack decent 'normal' controls.

Whatever your thoughts on the console as a whole, DS is the first real use of a touchscreen as display and interface in mainstream gaming.

Whether you accept it or not, for years people have been playing games on their PDAs. And yes, they are hokey and quaint compared to their console counterparts, but to dismiss all the work that has gone into stylus gaming for that reason is just pure arrogance.

And all those years of stylus gaming has taught us that, besides puzzle and strategy games, stylus utterly sucks as a control device. And that's why the holy grail for action PDA gamers is a PPC with a good 8 way D-pad and responsive action buttons. All the DS's stylus is gonna be good for, is puzzlers and Warioware type games, while action games will find their home on the PSP for the sake of the controls. The experiment has been done for a while, and the conclusions, already widely known.

But then again, if you still believe in this DS is a "third pillar - innovation/experimentation in gaming" crap, you deserve to lose your money down the toilet that many have laready flushed their money down on.

 

[Folder]

Yes touchscreens arnt a new technology. But having a touchscreen that acts as a customisable control scheme for the action in the second screen is.

And therein lies genius!
WTF?
It's hardly pushing the boundries is it?

 

[goomba]

"It's hardly pushing the boundries is it?"

Its too early to judge the success of the experiment. Game developers sure seem keen on something different to work on. Lets just see what they come up with .

 

[explodet]

And all those years of stylus gaming has taught us that, besides puzzle and strategy games, stylus utterly sucks as a control device.

I think one reason people are willing to give the DS and its touchscreen a chance is because they want to see what gaming companies that they know can do with it - your Nintendos and Squares, your EAs and Ubisofts. Stuff with budgets, and franchises they're familiar with.

 

[Shogmaster]

I think one reason people are willing to give the DS and and its touchscreen a chance is because they want to see what gaming companies that they know can do with it - your Nintendos and Squares, your EAs and Ubisofts.

Those guys are better game developers, not fucking magician. They can't turn lead into gold.

 

[AniHawk]

But then again, if you still believe in this DS is a "third pillar - innovation/experimentation in gaming" crap, you deserve to lose your money down the toilet that many have laready flushed down their money down on.

Which is why I'm glad I only spent $40 buying it and a launch title.

I think if the DS takes off soaring like the GBA/SP did, and the GBA/SP dies down, then the DS brand will officially overtake it. If the DS and PSP become locked in a dead heat while the GBA/SP sales continue to do well on their own, we'll probably have a "third pillar" situation where the "real GBA successor" is released in 2006. If the DS falls flat on its face, we could see a new Game Boy really soon (which, I think, was stated by Nintendo earlier this year). I guess in that sense you can see it being taken as an experiment.

Those guys are better game developers, not fucking magician. They can't turn lead into gold.

Mike Works brought up an interesting point in another thread: if carts can be used for tilt technology, and if they can use the power of the sun, then there are probably a couple ideas for a touch screen not yet explored.

 

[mrklaw]

hey shogmaster, don't get me wrong. I agree with a lot of your points, including the potential limitations of the touchscreen. I've still bought one though.

It was just the way you used PPC as a way of saying touchscreen had been around for a long time. Now, if you'd said that only proved how limited touchscreens are in the first place, as you have in your reply, that would have been a more rounded argument IMO....

 

[aoi tsuki]

That's almost as cool as your avatar. Almost. Seriously, if you ever get to try it out, let me know.

Some other games that might or might not lie in Sega's R&D wasteland...Sonic RPG (Sega CD), Eternal Champions 3 (Saturn), Virtua Cop (32X), X-Men 3 (32X, developed by Scavenger), Giest Force (DC...remember the hype around that game? :lol), Chaken: The Forever Man (DC), Super GT (Saturn/Eclipse), Sonic X-Treme (Saturn) and Sonic Adventure (Saturn/Eclipse). Can't forget the Saturn version of Shenmue as well...would love to see more of that version. And I was gonna mention Propeller Arena, but I guess that's already out there, heh.

All of that doesn't include some of the prototype and near-finished hardware like TeleGenesis, Sega VR, Neptune, Pluto, and I suspect a Lockheed-developed Model 4 might be hanging around somewhere as well. Ah, what I wouldn't do to uncover these secrets.

There were also the DC Zip drive and MP3 player, and VF3 and Shenmue on Saturn. If someone released a DVD of a half the stuff Sega worked on during the latter Genesis to early DC era, i'd buy it in a heartbeat.

The pictures seem damming, although i have a hard time believing that Nintendo would pull a Sega and toss in a touchscreen and another processor as a knee-jerk reaction to the PSP. The argument can really go either way. Regardless, the system introduces an interesting hardware featureset for a portable. Having already taken the plunge and bought my DS, i'll continue to be interested as long as the games are fun.

Also, i just found this bit on one of Nintendo's DS customer service pages (http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/ds/faq.jsp)

What does "DS" stand for?

To our developers, it stands for "Developers' System," since we believe it gives game creators brand new tools which will lead to more innovative games for the worlds' players.

It can also stand for "Dual Screen."

Whether you accept it or not, for years people have been playing games on their PDAs. And yes, they are hokey and quaint compared to their console counterparts, but to dismiss all the work that has gone into stylus gaming for that reason is just pure arrogance.

And all those years of stylus gaming has taught us that, besides puzzle and strategy games, stylus utterly sucks as a control device. And that's why the holy grail for action PDA gamers is a PPC with a good 8 way D-pad and responsive action buttons. All the DS's stylus is gonna be good for, is puzzlers and Warioware type games, while action games will find their home on the PSP for the sake of the controls. The experiment has been done for a while, and the conclusions, already widely known.

Nintendo's definitely not the first to make touchscreen games a reality , but like with the other examples (analog control, rumble in controllers), they have the opportunity to bring touchscreen gaming into the realm of the mainstream gamer.

Have any of the PDA developers had the experience, skill, or funding that Nintendo's had in developing games? Has there been a PDA game like Metroid Hunters that uses the touchscreen as a mouselook? Even if it doesn't do well, i do see some of the ideas with DS games to spill over into the PDA games sector, and we'll see some innovation brought there as well.

 

[jarrod]

Sorry to revive this thread but...

Dynasty Warriors is not a port (so far as we know).

Actually, it is. According to Koei's Software Department 4's Takazumi Tomoike it's based off DW4, reuses the same maps and assets, only with lower quality models, less draw distance and chopped up levels. He actually complained about not being able to port the game more closely, that elements had to be cut back a sectioned down.

Also Garghav Trilogy: The White Witch will actually be the 4th rerelease of Falcom's The Legend of Heroes III. From what I've seen it's essentially the Saturn/PS1 release with polygonal backgrounds. I'm guessing Legend of Heroes IV & V will be following to complete the trilogy on PSP.

Lumines and MG AC!D really seem to be the only completely new stuff for PSP's Japanese launch. DS fared a little better with Hitofude, Kimishine, Band Bros and Tendo Dokuta actually.

 

[Amir0x]

Sorry to revive this thread but...

Actually, it is. According to Koei's Software Department 4's Takazumi Tomoike it's based off DW4, reuses the same maps and assets, only with lower quality models, less draw distance and chopped up levels. He actually complained about not being able to port the game more closely, that elements had to be cut back a sectioned down.

The most recent information is that it's actually based on Dynasty Warriors 3, but not in the way you'd think. It's like a remix, sort of like Super Mario 64 DS, with all new locations and new characters and such. Here's the OFFICIAL word:

Dynasty Warriors for PSP is based loosely on the third edition of the series (which is up to four and should be seeing a fifth soon -- the stages and stories of the series are essentially a mix tape of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms tale and feature repeat stages -- the PSP basis expands off of DW3, but much of the handheld edition is all new.) The full roster of 42 generals and commandants and other playable will be present in the PSP game, including Lady Huang, Zhen Ji, Zhou Yu, and the ever-present and always-chosen Sun Shang Xiang.

Ok. So that's settled.

Also Garghav Trilogy: The White Witch will actually be the 4th rerelease of Falcom's The Legend of Heroes III. From what I've seen it's essentially the Saturn/PS1 release with polygonal backgrounds. I'm guessing Legend of Heroes IV & V will be following to complete the trilogy on PSP.

As for the Legend of Heroes connection, that's so obscure that it's not even worth noting. Similarly, and this has been confirmed, almost the entire game is brand new and will bring the trilogy into a new direction for the trilogies run on PSP.

 

[jarrod]

The most recent information is that it's actually based on Dynasty Warriors 3, but not in the way you'd think. It's like a remix, sort of like Super Mario 64 DS, with all new locations and new characters and such. Here's the OFFICIAL word:

Ok. So that's settled.

Not settled...

GS: Which game is it specifically based on?

TT: Dynasty Warriors 4.

...where's your "OFFICIAL word" from exactly? The head of Software Dept 4 is saying it's DW4.

As for the Legend of Heroes connection, that's so obscure that it's not even worth noting. Similarly, and this has been confirmed, almost the entire game is brand new and will bring the trilogy into a new direction for the trilogies run on PSP.

Obscure connection? This is an old game at it's core... granted there may be some enhancement, but that's like saying Lunar SSS had an obscure connection not worth noting to the Mega CD original.

If you have any more information on how the PSP version deviates, I'd be happy to hear it. It seriously just looks like the PS1 version with low quality polygonal BGs, in fact it looks like it could be done on PS1. The most significant change seems to be Bandai dropping the Legend of Heroes title and inadvertently fooling the western media itno thinking it's a new game.

 

[Shaheed79]

I am so mad I missed this debate when the iron was still hot. I wanted to stretch my newbie brain muscles but here it goes regardless.

Has anybody here seen the rumoroed specs for the GBA2? The minidisk dreamcast graphics one? Ever since I first saw the Gamecubes minidisks I assumed that eventually Nintendo would create a handheld that was backwards compatible with GC games. If I remember correctly some mid level execs somewhat confirmed this theory during all the E32k1 interviews from IGN or Gamespot when they practically asked the same exact question. The problem is that there are a at least 2 generations of GBA upgrades in between such a successor so my theory is the DS is something of a shortcut/risk venture to be the stepping stone in between vast technologies. Nintendo's R&D is ALWAYS working on new technologies I bet if a publication asked Nintendo how long they have been experimenting with touch screens, voice rec and wireless technologies the answer would be far more telling than any speculation done is this topic thus far.

But I did like the theory in the original post as it was feasible but not very likely. Nintendo has always put out weaker handheld technologies than its competition and systematicly outsold them thusly. If the power of the PSP really did affect the R&D at Nintendo it was gonna be for their Next handheld not the DS. imo

Lastly I think it would be wise for us to discern the differences between a consumer port and a developer port. A hot shots game with 6 new courses and 10 new players may not come off as a port to us the consumer but you better believe to the developer a game like that is still meant to keep development costs down greatly than if they were to create a new game entirely. Having your artists fashion 10 new players and your level designers creat 6 new courses is much easier to attach to an existing framework and give it the appearance of something fresh. The cost of doing so I imagine is neglegible wich is the whole point imo. Developers might take a PS2 or other game framework and gloss it up for the PSP because that would be much cheaper than creating something from the ground up on a 3D portable. Developers are use to making ends meet off portables not loosing money off of them so if the PSP in ANY way hints to be a non-profitable or not AS profitable as the SP or DS then support imo will wan.