-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Some Dev Quotes from Edge on PS3/X360
- Thread starter gofreak
- Start date
What Edge says about the E3 Sony Demo is basically don't expect the games to look like them. On Killzone they say that the Pictures (shown in the mag) "are how the game will look or will look once its finsihed or at least how its supposed to look once its finshed. Ones thing for sure PS3 launch games won't look like this". As for Motor Storm Sony claimed it was made using assests created by the developer Evolution studios. Edge however beleives the sequence was made entirely from CG specialist Realtime UK. "Neither the Sony or the Studio were prepared to reveal details. This issue arrises bacause, based on previous working methods, it seems lilely RealtimeUK would authored all assests in house. If this was the case it would make the description of the footage as "game demo" as an extreme exercise in being economical with the truth. Again don't expect this quality from launch games."
And the only quote in the magazine which states that some think that PS3 will have a graphical advantage are SN systems who quote unamed developers. As far as I know SN produce middleware for Sony and maybe Nintendo but Mainly Sony so to be honest I have no idea what they know about the 360 for comparison sakes. Theres an interview with 6 developers from Frontier, Behmeoth, Criterion, Shinny, Valve and Quantick dream. None of them discuss the realtive performance of PS3 or 360. And Finally to show all all how balanced the Edge article was, the only comparison from Rein regarding the machine was "They are both going to be great machines. Xbox 360 and PS3 are both going to be great machines." and finally word should go to an unamned senior developer who said "Just believe the hype. Both consoles are obviuosly better and higher defintion than each other. Why would Sony or MS lie?"
And the only quote in the magazine which states that some think that PS3 will have a graphical advantage are SN systems who quote unamed developers. As far as I know SN produce middleware for Sony and maybe Nintendo but Mainly Sony so to be honest I have no idea what they know about the 360 for comparison sakes. Theres an interview with 6 developers from Frontier, Behmeoth, Criterion, Shinny, Valve and Quantick dream. None of them discuss the realtive performance of PS3 or 360. And Finally to show all all how balanced the Edge article was, the only comparison from Rein regarding the machine was "They are both going to be great machines. Xbox 360 and PS3 are both going to be great machines." and finally word should go to an unamned senior developer who said "Just believe the hype. Both consoles are obviuosly better and higher defintion than each other. Why would Sony or MS lie?"
Pug said:
They did not say not to expect games to look like any of the Sony demos. They just singled out Killzone and Motor Storm, but that's nothing exactly new (though the specifics of the Motorstorm case are).
I think we all have a good idea of what demos were "genuine" and which were CG.
celestial body
Member
I think the ones Sony pushed big time at e3 were the Getaway demo, Unreal Tournament 2007 and some of the other phil Harrison ones, I didn't think they paid particular attention to either Killzone or Motorstorm, infact they were stuck in the middle of a video reel. It seems they did focus more on the realtime stuff.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
Dont forget FF7 and Fight Night....they were both major highlights for Sony too...
fortified_concept
Banned
Tenacious-V said:
Calling others fanboys while you ask -no let me get this right- you demand from gofreak to include ATI's comments on X360 as serious quotes is kinda ironic. What's next? Do you want us to include Microsoft's comments on the superiority of Xbox360 in the thread?
Man, can't believe I didn't realize that before. But SN is HIGHLY tied to Sony with their developer tools. For Xbox I was using the built-in debugging abilities of Visual Studio, but for developing on the PS2 I don't think debugging with Visual Studio works. So we used ProDG for debugging and compiling. So while SN is a middleware provider, they're not truly multiplatform in the same sense as Renderware or UE3 by supporting all consoles.
rastex said:
Their tools are for Nintendo too. And the devs they work with are obviously multiplatform beyond Sony and Nintendo.
The reason they're not on MS platforms is probably because MS doesn't want competition in that regard. MS's own in-house tools are obviously very good. That's actually addressed in the interview, and they're not exactly bitter about it.
rastex said:
No, that's my own thought on it. MS obviously want people using their tools on their platform - they're good enough as it is. Part of the reason for Xbox's existance was to promote the usage of MS tools amongst game developers with the strengthening of consoles vs PC, and they control the middleware platform, so I'm sure if they could avoid introducing competition they would. I don't know this is the case, but I don't think it's an unreasonable theory.
Another theory could be that the market is simply bigger with Sony and Nintendo, because they don't have their own tools of a certain standard, and they decided to focus on that. Sony and Nintendo need help in that regard - they don't have their own visual studio or whatever.
Either way, I don't think it's particularly relevant when discussing what they say devs are saying.
chaostrophy
Member
If AA is less necessary at higher resolutions, I wonder if developers will be able to use the processing power used to render HD output for AA instead on systems hooked up to SDTVs.
gofreak said:
I suppose it's a possibility but for SN to say they're not exactly bitter about it, I'm very suspect of. Obviously they're going to say they're not bitter, but why wouldn't they be as MS has (possibly) cutoff a source of revenue.
Either way, there's obviously a big difference in relationship with SN and the respective console manufacturers, and I wanted to make that known and clear.
rastex said:
They didn't say it so many words, I simply took that from what they were saying. They gave MS their dues as far as their tools go.
rastex said:
Of course, but it's of little to no bearing to them how much more or less powerful the systems they put tools out on are.
chaostrophy said:
Theoretically, the downsampling of a higher resolution image to a lower SD resolution should incur AA on its own. Devs will probably only target one resolution.
rastex said:
Power has little to do with market success. And there also isn't always a direct relationship between market success - or at least having to be number 1 - and dev support, and thus the market for tools on a system (look at how much support Xbox has got, despite being a distant second). I certainly don't think there's any point in them lying about that, there's no benefit, and their clients (devs) can easily read their comments on that, which if not true, wouldn't exactly sit well with them.
WHOAguitarninja
Member
gofreak said:
But seeing that it's something published in a magazine, I certainly don't think they'd be as inclined to take it to heart as a direct conversation between the two.
Besides, if they're licensing to PS3 developers, it is in the developers best interest to portray PS3 in the most favorable light. Surely you must see that calling the PS3 more powerful is one method of making the system more appealing to consumers. Although power has rarely been correlated with market dominance, it can be correlated with market success. Do you think the Xbox would have done as well if it were noticeably inferior to PS2? Not a chance.
Also, it should be pointed out (and is rarely so) that the general idea from the uninformed masses (I'm talking way out of the loop...those that don't know what E3 is, have never seen the infamous killzone demo, etc...the true mainstream consumer)...the general perception is that like last gen, Xbox will the most powerful again. They see it as the brand's most identifiable trait, and many are rather surprised and often don't even beleive me at first when I tell them that the PS3 is supposed to be a little more powerful than the X360.
My point is that when a developer, publisher, whatever, has a vested interest in one console over another, then you can't take a comment from them as purely unbiased due to them "not having a real reason to lie", as more often than not, they have every reason to try and play up the console they are supporting.
I'm not saying the PS3 is weaker than the X360 or anything like that...I expect it to be a little bit more powerful, but just that in this case you can't really take what the person quoted is saying as an ubiased remark.
The fact that SN Systems (and Codeplay) don't develop middleware for xbox indicates to me that the developers they are working with also don't work with the xbox which makes their second hand developer perceptions worthless. The fact that they have a vested interest in the PS3s success doesn't help much either.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
gofreak said:
Yeah, and the developers who ARE platform specific are basically a mouthpiece for the hardware manufacturer anyway and round and round we go...
I must agree with you Gofreak....I seem to notice that suggestions of PS3 hardware superiority is met with resistance while suggestions of X360 hardware superiorty is met with acceptance..
Not that it matters much....just an observation....
Oh wait....my bad.....
PLAYSTATION(R)3 ROXXORZ and XBOXEN TREE-SIDDY SUXXORZ
AM I RITE!!
sangreal said:
SNSystems market would then be tiny. How many codehouses only work with one platform? Not many.
The specific SNSystems quote even raises the point of non-final hardware on both sides. Why would a sony-only dev be concerned with what was to come in X360 kits?
That's a silly argument, IMO. Obviously many of SNSystem's clients work with all platforms, it's simply the nature of the industry.
Kleegamefan said:
Whilst that's often claimed by people when it suits them, it's not always the case necessarily. Often, perhaps, but not always (e.g. ninja theory's deanoc is certainly not a sony mouthpiece, bizaare's recent "comparison" article wasn't a copy-and-paste from MS PR etc.). But yeah, their comments regarding comparison with the competition are far more easily dismissed.
I subscribe to Edge have since issue 1. Its always tried to be balanced it may not have succeed all the time but its by far the most balance magazine I have read. The article comparing the machineS is balanced and I re-iterate their is no quote anywhere in the mag from a game developer that states PS3 will have a graphical advantage or is more powerful than 360. The only quote comes from SN Systems who say that some developers have told them that PS3 is a little bit or a lot more powerful. Fact is SN are not working on 360 so I assume they know little about it. Edge do ask SN a question, along the line of "Do you believe Sony that the game videos they showed will actually look like that?" They answer interestingly, "We always take that kind of thing we a pinch of salt. We had the same thing at the Xbox launch, with the beautiful dancing robot and I've never seen anything like that in an Xbox game." What they are basically saying is no we don't beleive Sony but we will give you a MS example. Me I think PS3 will be more powerful for sure, By how much? Not a lot.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
no
sangreal said:
Stretching..
While on a technical low-level they'd often be dealing with specific people working on one or other system - who're also in regular contact with others working on other systems anyway, and may well end up working on said systems eventually - on a business level they'd be dealing with higher-uppers with a birds-eye view. In some instances, the people they're dealing with would have all 3 systems on their desk, or whatever, if they were part of a core technology team at the company, which is pretty common at the larger publishers and developers.
Basically what you're suggesting is that no developer could ever make any kind of fair judgement about relative system power.
I mean, take what you wish from the comment. It's not exactly exceptional, however.
I dont think anyone is suggesting the xbox 360 hardware is superior, just that the difference between them will be minimal. Common sense seems to dictate that 4 months of lead time will not make a huge difference. Power and graphics will play a huge role, MS and Sony know this, the odds of one unexpectedly blowing the other out of the water are slim to none. Certian people continue to try to suggest that ps3 will have have a huge advantage technology wise when almost EVERYTHING we have seen and heard says they wont.
I´ll only trust comments on power superiority from multiplatform developers working on final or close to final kits. I doubt we´ll get many comments in that regard due to politics of such things.
Scratch that, I´ll judge for myself with how the titles look. What´s produced on the screen is the only thing that matters anyway, not flops and unified architectures
Scratch that, I´ll judge for myself with how the titles look. What´s produced on the screen is the only thing that matters anyway, not flops and unified architectures
Take this how you will, but 360 fans have a vested interest in the machines being close in power in the same way PS2 fans had a vested interest in the PS2 and Xbox being close in power. It's understood by most that later hardware is more powerful, so it's highly unreasonable to expect the earlier system to be more powerful. But by claiming a narrow margin in power, it's a win for that side. System Wars 101. PEACE.
nextgeneration
Member
My thoughts exactly. It's the software that tells me the strengths/weaknesses of a system - not all these statistics that hardware manufacturers spew at us.
Chiggs
Gold Member
Pimpwerx said:
I see what you're saying, but as a fan of the Xbox, and a fan video games in general, I could give a shit less about stuff like that; just like I did when the Xbox launched. It's not like I stopped playing my PS2 because DOA 3 took a giant shit on anything that the PS2 had to offer at that time, graphically-speaking.
Compelling games are what really matters; trite but true.
Im obviously bias towards MS but you cant deny that most of the reports, interviews, ect suggest that they will be close in power. Its the sony fans working overtime to try to disprove it every time its suggested by someone in the know.
Im pretty sure xbox launched more than a year after ps2 as well so its not really a valid comparison.SolidSnakex
Member
TheDuce22 said:Im obviously bias towards MS but you cant deny that most of the reports, interviews, ect suggest that they will be close in power. Its the sony fans working overtime to try to disprove it every time its suggested by someone in the know.
It's happening on both sides. Sony fans are sure that it will clearly stronger and Xbox fans are certain that you won't be able to tell the difference.
Because SN System's future is less tied to the success of any system and more tied to publishers needing their tools to make games. That they make tools particularly for one system doesn't preclude them from switching bases in the future. OTOH, ATI will never work for NVidia and vice-versa. And Sony and MS will pimp their specific platforms as well. PEACE.sangreal said:
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
You lose Nintendo...
Nintendo could provide some amusement - with some luck they'll use a lower-clocked OOOE cpu(possibly 2 cores or so), which would be exactly what the gods of Anandtech have claimed is the "right" way to make a console that will trivially outperform both 360 and PS3.
Frankly I'd love to see their analysis of Revolution if that happens.
Frankly I'd love to see their analysis of Revolution if that happens.
WHOAguitarninja
Member
Pimpwerx said:
The systems are also supposed to be launching much closer to each other. The release of the PS2 and Xbox were like 18 months apart, whereas we're talking a time window of 4-6 months in this case.
I would be somewhat surprised if PS3 wasn't more powerful than X360, but I would be shocked if the difference were as big as the PS2 - Xbox difference.
Fafalada said:
Well, that's nice for Revolution games but I don't plan on playing next gen in SD resolution. At all. In NA widescreen and HDTV is becoming much more prevelant. I'm ready to move on. I'm not intereted in playing any SDTV game, at all. SDTV resolutions are relegated to this gen. Next gen I expect more. The only thing which would make me budge is if Nintendo mandates every Revolution game has a true 16:9 mode. But they won't.
Speaking of 16:9, what is Sony's stance? They never really stated if every PS3 game will support true 16:9 mode. MS is the only company who has. I don't want stretch mode hacks either.
Sony hasn't said yet if they will require HD for all games. I believe the last word was that they were talking to their publishers before they make the decision.
I believe what Mrbob was talking about though would be rendering games at 960x720 (4:3) but "squished" so it stretches out properly to 16:9 but without the full horizontal resolution. I think thats how some current gen games achieve 16:9? I could be completely wrong though, as I don't even have a widescreen tv. I'm not sure TVs accept non-standard resolutions like that
I believe what Mrbob was talking about though would be rendering games at 960x720 (4:3) but "squished" so it stretches out properly to 16:9 but without the full horizontal resolution. I think thats how some current gen games achieve 16:9? I could be completely wrong though, as I don't even have a widescreen tv. I'm not sure TVs accept non-standard resolutions like that
Tenacious-V
Thinks his PR is better than yours.
fortified_concept said:
You idiot..... I did no such thing. When I posted that I was referring to the thread at B3D and what they were saying. Learn how to read. How about you actually read my posts next time before coming up with idiotic assumptions like that!!