Support NeoGAF

[jman2050]

And I would argue that the Pokemon series has been the same fucking game over and over again with new Pokemon. There's change and innovation and then there's doing NOTHING new.

You don't have to do much new when you get it right from the start.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Pokemon is the perfect example of what I'm talking about really. It takes a fantastic design that works and refines it iteratively, rather than trying to "innovate" at every corner for the sake of change. Another good example would be the progression from Sonic 1 to Sonic 3.

I really hate your avatar.

That's not related to your post but I hate it more than you hate Sonic 4.

 

[Dark Machine]

And I would argue that the Pokemon series has been the same fucking game over and over again with new Pokemon. There's change and innovation and then there's doing NOTHING new.

I have to say, the Pokemon Anime has had more innovation than the actual games. Black/White is quite different from Red/Blue. But it shouldn't have taken a ton of games in between to get there with that series.

I just want to know what's with the floaty physics, they're in Blade Kitten too, is it a Downloadable game thing? Why can't they do it right when the fan games in 2.5D so obviously can? Was it a stylistic choice? If so, fire the guy who made it.

 

[RobbieNick]

You don't have to do much new when you get it right from the start.

What's the point of making sequels then if you do the same thing over and over? You're playing the exact same game!!

 

[Upsidedown Fuji]

met me be transparent for a moment: This game is not an offense to mankind (that would be 06), nor is it completely the wrong direction for the franchise to take (that would be Unleashed). It is, however, not very good. And it's not very good because the entire foundation of the gameplay, the control, is very bad. I already said that some parts of the level design indicate that the dev team does have an idea on what classic Sonic gameplay is about, but that does not save it. All those ancillary elements, no matter how good, fall apart if the control is bad. This is not a new phenomenon. Can the next episode be a major improvement? Sure, and I'd like to see if they can do it. But I do not reward effort, I reward results, and I'm not going to turn my favor until the devs show that their product is not just another platformer. When that happens, I will change my tune, but not a minute before.

Thank you for keeping this discussion cool.

I actually agree with what you wrote above. I understand you're not attcking the game for it being an abomination. You're just vocal against it for being an average game that doesn't live up to the original goodness and doesn't control like it should.

I don't disagree with most of your points above really. I actually agree about the control being bad...well not bad but not right. If it were bad this game would deserve every thing the internet could muster against it. My posts were more focused toward others here so sorry if this turned into a snipe fest. I assure you that wasn't my intention.

I've just been trying to be a little level headed here to balance out the hysterics that see nothing but bad.

 

[jman2050]

What's the point of making sequels then if you do the same thing over and over? You're playing the exact same game!!

Does the word "refinement" not mean anything to you?

Are people seriously going to argue that the Pokemon franchise wasn't refined from Red/Blue up until now? Not that this is the thread for that, but do people here really take such a simplistic and superficial approach to assessing a game's design?

 

[RobbieNick]

Does the word "redundant" not mean anything to you?

Fixed

BTW, I'll probably get shit for this, but after playing both iPhone and Wii versions, I gotta say like the Mine Cart level better than the torch one.

 

[Lijik]

Fixed

BTW, I'll probably get shit for this, but after playing both iPhone and Wii versions, I gotta say like the Mine Cart level better than the torch one.

I kind of liked the mine cart level.
I mean, I didn't do shit in it and it practically played itself but it worked as a breather after the infuriating last section in LL Act 1.

Are there videos up of the torch stage anywhere?

 

[TheOGB]

Does the word "refinement" not mean anything to you?

Are people seriously going to argue that the Pokemon franchise wasn't refined from Red/Blue up until now? Not that this is the thread for that, but do people here really take such a simplistic and superficial approach to assessing a game's design?

Appears a lot of people here haven't seen Black and White yet


And it's understandable that you'd like the Mine Cart stage seeing as how it's being played on the system it was made for

 

[jman2050]

I can't imagine the last section of LL Act 1 on the iPhone. It sounds like a disaster.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

And I would argue that the Pokemon series has been the same fucking game over and over again with new Pokemon. There's change and innovation and then there's doing NOTHING new.

What's the point of making sequels then if you do the same thing over and over? You're playing the exact same game!!

Thanks for making it painfully obvious you have no idea what you're talking about.

Yeah, pokemon doesn't change from each gen to the next... RIGHT :lol.

smh infinitely

Does the word "refinement" not mean anything to you?

Are people seriously going to argue that the Pokemon franchise wasn't refined from Red/Blue up until now? Not that this is the thread for that, but do people here really take such a simplistic and superficial approach to assessing a game's design?

Only with other games. For Sonic, it's a "take it on the face and shut up" approach.

 

[riceandbeans]

I kind of liked the mine cart level.
I mean, I didn't do shit in it and it practically played itself but it worked as a breather after the infuriating last section in LL Act 1.

Are there videos up of the torch stage anywhere?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xifuB0WOJk

Kinda glad I'm not the only one who had trouble with Act 2. That's another stage I must've went through 10+ lives :lol

I must suck at this game if everyone keeps calling it easy. I've been through 30+ lives already and wasted 9 on the E.G.G. S.T.A.T.I.O.N. and still can't beat it

Spoiler

because of that last stupid infuriating part where he knocks out the ground and insta-deaths you

.

On a leveled note, some people are going to like it, not be as critical, and will be able to overlook it's faults or not even notice them. I can see this being a very likable game for a good amount of fans.

 

[TheOGB]

I can't imagine the last section of LL Act 1 on the iPhone. It sounds like a disaster.

Okay, now I'm going to have to see what all the hubbub's about.

Thanks for making my search easier, riceandbeans.

 

[Boney]

What's the point of making sequels then if you do the same thing over and over? You're playing the exact same game!!

derp

 

[Teknoman]

Spoiler

Enjoy the low route

Cant you just jump on the enemies at full speed, and bounce off each one?

 

[FoxMcCloudDS]

I would have to say that sega does a great job of losing the simple formula that was sonic 2D. I just don't see why they had to screw it up that bad. haha. it's an alright game on it's own, its once again, not sonic 2D as we remember it.

 

[Rewrite]

I have both the iphone and wii versions of the game, yes the console version is superior to the iphone version in every possible way. You know what though, I even had fun playing through the game on my iphone. That says alot compared to every sonic game to date. It's not perfect like I said but atleast they are on the right track and I was able to say I genuinely enjoyed the finished product.

This coming from probably the hugest skeptic of all things Sonic related, just do a search. If that doesn't mean anything then maybe you just hate fun. If that's the case then you are far beyond my help.

edit: not to mention the best level design we have had in a sonic game in god knows how long, yeah we could have used less bumpers and boosters but atleast there aren't 500+ pits of death you can't avoid and game breaking glitches running amok.

Without a doubt, this is the most unexpected turnaround I've seen on this thread. I never would have imagined you would have enjoyed it for what it was. I'm shocked.

 

[TheUnknownForce]

Not sure if it has been said or not but...

If you cannot play this game in widescreen on Wii, you are doomed. The 3:4 view is rubbish. Going to get an HDTV some day, but until I find one that can play SD consoles on it without a lot of lag (we're talking playing Mega Man fast reaction, here), I don't know if I should get it.

 

[Teknoman]

Without a doubt, this is the most unexpected turnaround I've seen on this thread. I never would have imagined you would have enjoyed it for what it was. I'm shocked.

Yeah that slipped by me. If the biggest skeptic in the entire topic was swayed, it cant be that bad, especially control wise.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Appears a lot of people here haven't seen Black and White yet


And it's understandable that you'd like the Mine Cart stage seeing as how it's being played on the system it was made for

I've seen Black and White. I applaud Nintendo for finally making a DS Pokemon game. If they keep working hard, they might eventually catch up to the PSX Dragon Warrior IV remake in terms of RPG design.

 

[TheOGB]

I've seen Black and White. I applaud Nintendo for finally making a DS Pokemon game. If they keep working hard, they might eventually catch up to the PSX Dragon Warrior IV remake in terms of RPG design.

:lol Oh you

Cant you just jump on the enemies at full speed, and bounce off each one?

Well good luck with that

 

[Catalix]

Don't be dishonest. Even if they played the game, there are a ton of Classic Hog fans that couldn't give the game a chance. And yes, the hate is getting pretty fucking disproportionate to the outcome at this point. SEGA have made a good 2D-only Sonic game for home consoles, with no extra characters, pulled back a bit on the speed thing, and people are acting like the game fucked their mother just because SEGA pulled a fast one with the name.

Disappointment, I get. Being mildly upset, I get. But obsessive grudge-fucking? No, I don't get it.

Overall, I agree. There is a disproportionate amount of bile being hurled toward this game right now. But how would you even know if someone's negative comments about the game fall under the umbrella of unbreakable, pre-conditioned hatred? Who is being legit, who are the crazies? In this thread, It's kinda hard to tell :lol. But I really did get the impression that a few of the posters so far were giving their honest testimonies about why this game could be considered legitimately bad.

Also, I could easily propose that a lot of Sonic 4's staunchest supporters are just pre-conditioned to think positively about the game in the face of it's multiple glaring flaws. But I can't disprove their sincerity.

I find it most agreeable to just take everyone's impressions of the game at face value. It's kinda pointless to suspect that everyone has a hidden agenda when reviewing the game.

 

[OnPoint]

Well good luck with that

There's a few places in the game like that. Some of them over bottomless pits too.

 

[Lijik]

I can't imagine the last section of LL Act 1 on the iPhone. It sounds like a disaster.

I had 24 lives before that section.
After losing them all and half an hours worth of game overs later I finally passed it :lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xifuB0WOJk

Thanks! I think that stage actually looks pretty fun.

 

[Teknoman]

:lol Oh you


Well good luck with that

Damn it...whats up with that? I thought Dimps would at least have enough sense to make his failing animation still count as a jump attack. I dont have that much of a problem with the homing attack, but thats the wrong way to force it.

Probably wouldnt have messed that up though :lol

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Overall, I agree. There is a disproportionate amount of bile being hurled toward this game right now. But how would you even know if someone's negative comments about the game fall under the umbrella of unbreakable, pre-conditioned hatred? Who is being legit, who are the crazies? In this thread, It's kinda hard to tell :lol. But I really did get the impression that a few of the posters so far were giving their honest testimonies about why this game could be considered legitimately bad.

Also, I could easily propose that a lot of Sonic 4's staunchest supporters are just pre-conditioned to think positively about the game in the face of it's multiple glaring flaws. But I can't disprove their sincerity.

I find it most agreeable to just take everyone's impressions of the game at face value. It's kinda pointless to suspect that everyone has a hidden agenda when reviewing the game.

I'm putting the opinions of people here the same place I always do, right into the rubbish bin. Not to talk down anyone's tastes or anything, but I'm pretty aware my own tastes fall so far outside of the norm that nothing anyone says is going to be correlated at all to how I would feel playing it.

To be fair, it's not hard to pick out the crazies on both sides. Mama Robotnik, Iknos, RobbieNick, that shaowebb guy whose dog SEGA ran over twice, etc. I don't think jman is one of the crazies, for the record. I do think he's being intellectually dishonest with that spiel about excellence and innovation and hard work and all that shit, but on the whole, he's being pretty straight about things.

For me, what I see is a pretty good game in a pretty abused series getting pretty good reviews. That's the reality here. Where it goes from there depends on what you were expecting/hoping for and what you're willing to accept.

 

[TheOGB]

I-I'm sorry

I appreciate that they went over the music again (I like the Act Clear jingle sounding like Sonic 3), but why does the Boss music sound like a fanmade MIDI now? That's not even a bad thing, really, but it's... quite a difference.


As for the "crazies", I think it's been proven that nearly everyone here is prone to spouting something... less than intelligent. Everyone, that is, except Segata Sanshiro.

And Lijik too, I guess

 

[Teknoman]

The only thing I dont like after seeing Splash Hill: The needlessly placed speed boosters.

Act 2 & 3 look kinda cool. Homing attack sections seem to be more reaction based than mandatory.

Phase 1 boss theme = just no...
Phase 2 boss theme = Actual boss theme, doesnt last long enough.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I-I'm sorry

I appreciate that they went over the music again (I like the Act Clear jingle sounding like Sonic 3), but why does the Boss music sound like a fanmade MIDI now? That's not even a bad thing, really, but it's... quite a difference.


As for the "crazies", I think it's been proven that nearly everyone here is prone to spouting something... less than intelligent. Everyone, that is, except Segata Sanshiro.

And Lijik too, I guess

Oh, I say all kinds of stupid things all the time. But I like to think I'm a pretty reasonable guy.

 

[TheOGB]

The only thing I dont like after seeing Splash Hill: The needlessly placed speed boosters.

Act 2 & 3 look kinda cool. Homing attack sections seem to be more reaction based than mandatory.

Phase 1 boss theme = just no...
Phase 2 boss theme = Actual boss theme, doesnt last long enough.

Well, boosters make you spindash automatically from what I've seen, and unfortunately they're placed right before a random enemy on the path. Quite a few times. So they're not exactly "needlessly placed."

 

[Anth0ny]

What's the point of making sequels then if you do the same thing over and over? You're playing the exact same game!!

You can't be serious.

 

[Teknoman]

Well, boosters make you spindash automatically from what I've seen, and unfortunately they're placed right before a random enemy on the path. Quite a few times. So they're not exactly "needlessly placed."

I always thought it was just the player pressing down as soon as they hit the booster.

 

[evangd007]

Just finished it. Not as good as the Genesis games, but I had fun. The physics took some time to get used to as Sonic lacks air momentum. I also had to accept the fact that air dashing and homing attacking were vital to my survival.

The game got a lot better as it went on. Splash Hill and Casino Street were meh, but Lost Labyrinth and Mad Gear were better in all ways. Better design, better looking, better music. The final boss was also very satisfying. On to collect the emeralds!

 

[Lijik]

I kind of wish this game had a more in depth plot because I can't figure out what the fuck is up with "Defeat the REAL Dr. Eggman" that the mad gear boss is labeled as. Its really been bugging me.

Were the other three Robotnik guys I faced robots or some shit? But one of them is labeled as "Dr. Eggman's Party". Why wouldn't he show up to his own party?
I demand answers!

 

[DR2K]

I kind of wish this game had a more in depth plot...

Go play that, lots of plot.

 

[Hitlersaurus Christ]

I kind of wish this game had a more in depth plot because I can't figure out what the fuck is up with "Defeat the REAL Dr. Eggman" that the mad gear boss is labeled as. Its really been bugging me.

Were the other three Robotnik guys I faced robots or some shit? But one of them is labeled as "Dr. Eggman's Party". Why wouldn't he show up to his own party?
I demand answers!

Haven't played it but I'd assume it's talking about the Robotnik balloon things he spawns when you hit him.

 

[Azure Dream]

I kind of wish this game had a more in depth plot because I can't figure out what the fuck is up with "Defeat the REAL Dr. Eggman" that the mad gear boss is labeled as. Its really been bugging me.

Were the other three Robotnik guys I faced robots or some shit? But one of them is labeled as "Dr. Eggman's Party". Why wouldn't he show up to his own party?
I demand answers!

Not-Sure-If-Serious.jpg, but from what I remember of the leak (have to wait for the 360 version), isn't that

Spoiler

the one where he shoots those little Eggman bubble enemies at you that bounce along? It's just saying "Hit the real one, not the little fakes," even though it's obvious which ones are the fakes.

I figure you're joking with the plot and party comment, but just in case you're not.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

What the hell? Jump into this thread and you losers have devolved into bashing Pokemon around? Get a grip. Sonic is half a percent the franchise Pokemon is.

F you RobbieNick. I thought you were cool.

 

[Baconbitz]

Alle these leading up to this game have made me not sure about this game. Idk. Do I give a chance or not? My playing field is level with + and -'s. Do I go out on a limb and buy this "so called sequel"?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

What the hell? Jump into this thread and you losers have devolved into bashing Pokemon around? Get a grip. Sonic is half a percent the franchise Pokemon is.

Excellent. Now that we have the loser Poketards and the loser Sonictards all in one thread, we just need a nuclear bomb and the game industry will be right as rain.

 

[Crash Station]

Didn't even realize this came out today :lol . Gotta admit, I'm still curious. Might buy it if I hear good impressions from a friend or something.

 

[Drkirby]

What's the point of making sequels then if you do the same thing over and over? You're playing the exact same game!!

You must hate the Classic Mega Man series. Heck, Capcom must be on your list of company's to never buy a game from by now.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Excellent. Now that we have the loser Poketards and the loser Sonictards all in one thread, we just need a nuclear bomb and the game industry will be right as rain.

Whatever happens I'm taking you with us.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Whatever happens I'm taking you with us.

I can survive explosions.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I can survive explosions.

True but the nuclear mutation might finally do you some good.

 

[Anth0ny]

You must hate the Classic Mega Man series. Heck, Capcom must be on your list of company's to never buy a game from by now.

Exactly what I was thinking. The jumps between classic Mega Mans are far less of a jump between Pokemon games. Yet they're still awesome, because if it ain't broke, don't fix it. They did it with the Megaman games, they did it with Galaxy 2, they did it with Majora's Mask, and they should have done it with Sonic 4 (using Sonic 3's engine, if not graphics as well).

 

[nincompoop]

So is this actually... good? I checked out a few Youtube videos and it looks a hell of a lot closer to the Genesis Sonic games (in terms of quality as well as overall feel) than any Sonic game since then, homing attack and weird physics issues aside. I doubt I'm going to pay 15 bucks for it but it seems like it turned out a lot better than I expected.

 

[Sophia]

So is this actually... good? I checked out a few Youtube videos and it looks a hell of a lot closer to the Genesis Sonic games (in terms of quality as well as overall feel) than any Sonic game since then, homing attack and weird physics issues aside. I doubt I'm going to pay 15 bucks for it but it seems like it turned out a lot better than I expected.

It does look good, yeah. My only concern with Sonic uncurling in the air seems to have been neutered somewhat, as all the videos show that the Homing Attack is more then enough for the air.

 

[Sciz]

I can survive explosions.

I'm under the impression there was some sort of missile that had something to say about that.