• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Sonic the Hedgehog Community |OT2 Battle|

Status
Not open for further replies.

PKrockin

Member
I have bad news. She was the one who made this comment.

SuperDB1992 1 year ago

Life isn't always peaches and cream. Sure the lightheartedness of the first one will always make me feel nostalagic but Jak had to grow up sometime. The reason the first game was so lighthearted anyway was because it was seen through the eyes of an adventurous young boy. Jak II is seen through the eyes of someone who is hardened by dark ego and reality of the cruel world. They did a great job and I love the whole series. ♥ :D
· 17 in reply to benjamillion (Show the comment)
 
I can't deny that Jak 2 is a game that represents the cruel reality of the world, only in a world so cruel could we get a sequel so shockingly shameful in so many ways.
 
tumblr_msbfpiQXrW1s19gmoo2_400.jpg


I wish I knew where that came from
 
So having just finished Castle of Illusion 2013, I gotta say that Sega shutting down Sega Studios Australia was a Joker-sized boner. Given their new digital focus, a studio capable of that quality of work could've been a big asset to them going forward.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Oh, I remember finding out about Robotnikinin and writing about it in the old thread.

Dark Schala said:
Sonic, how did you get so influential?

So... were the people who discovered the (edit: homolog of the original hh) gene big Sonic fans or what? The inhibitor of the gene is also called Robotnikinin. There's also Pikachurin (the protein for better visual acuity), and the gene that's responsible for the proliferation of cancer throughout surrounding cells was previously called Pokemon until the Pokemon Company threatened legal action since they didn't want to be associated with it so they changed the name.

lzjQi.png

(I was doing research for something completely different until I started wondering about the current research on SHH.)

Uh, yeah, I don't think that completing a game fully and then painstakingly detailing the mechanics and design are what's wanted in reviewers. It seems to be more snap judgments based off 2 hours of gameplay. That whole "completing Time and Eternity twice and doing all the sidequests before giving the final writeup" thing wouldn't have flown.
And they typically tend to not have a lot of time to do the review in anyway! They would probably play 10 hours at most and evaluate based on that. And given how repetitive Time and Eternity is, they'd probably think the rest of the game is like that... and, uh, it kind of is.

There legitimately isn't depth in that game. Maybe for one boss fight when you're severely underlevelled like I was on my NG+ playthrough, but that's kind of it.

I for one would love to see a professional Schala review paid for by Doritos and Dew, masses of positive hyperbole and nary a whisper of game mechanics.

Why such a review could be like stating how hip and trendy Jak 2 is, not only does it ape GTA in a way that would make Rockstar seethe with envy but now i've discovered it's grand venture into the territory of one Mr Hawk, it handles the addictive trick based gameplay in a way that surpasses the now outdated skateboard ventures. Playing Jak 2 is like playing a combination of the greatest hits of the PS2 era united under one glorious banner, how fortunate we are to have that boorish platforming take a back seat to ever trendy extreme sports, frantic firefights and exhilarating racing wrapped up in a mature gritty open world package, truly a product of the times.
Oh man, I don't think I'd be able to even do that. I'd cringe every time I write an instance of hyperbole and go into self-loathing mode.

I bet it made you cringe to even write that!
 

qq more

Member
Challenging video games are outdated and have no place in gaming. I want every game to hold my hands as much as possible because fuck actually playing games. Pfft, lives system? What is this? The 80s? They should get rid of boss fights while we're at it. Terrible game design!!!!!!!
 

BHZ Mayor

Member
Challenging video games are outdated and have no place in gaming. I want every game to hold my hands as much as possible because fuck actually playing games. Pfft, lives system? What is this? The 80s? They should get rid of boss fights while we're at it. Terrible game design!!!!!!!

You should really stop going to Gaming so much. I'd hate to see you after a trip to OT.
 
Having to play through parts of the game I can do to get back to the bits I can't yet isn't challenging, it's annoying. Anti-lives system isn't pro-hand holding, it's anti-repetitiveness. Getting rid of lives doesn't inhibt challenge, it just reduces the amount of the game you have to replay before being given another shot at the bit you haven't overcome yet.

Ultimately it doesn't matter how many tries you're given at something if you just can't do it.
 

qq more

Member
Having to play through parts of the game I can do to get back to the bits I can't yet isn't challenging, it's annoying. Anti-lives system isn't pro-hand holding, it's anti-repetitiveness. Getting rid of lives doesn't inhibt challenge, it just reduces the amount of the game you have to replay before being given another shot at the bit you haven't overcome yet.

Ultimately it doesn't matter how many tries you're given at something if you just can't do it.
The problem is that people want lives to be gone all together... as in... every single game. Platformers generally works with the lives concept very well, especially games like Mega Man.

I don't see how it's annoying as long as the level's length is not excessive. The game is trying to make you do better.
 
Typically it doesn't bother me too much, I was speaking more of the concept generally.

Mega Man generally works well with lives because the stages aren't long enough that it's a bother.They're just the right length to keep you pushing through and feeling like you're making progress. The occasional stage that is too long though, or is weirdly checkpointed with them stretched too far apart or not after a miniboss or whatever can be frustrating.

Mega Man also works because of its compartmentalised structure where a game over just kicks you back to the stage select screen without any lost progress (because there isn't really any linear progress to lose outside of the gauntlets that are the Wily stages) compared to something where you might be in the middle level of a world when a game over kicks you back to the start of that world, making you replay stages you've just beaten.
 

qq more

Member
Typically it doesn't bother me too much, I was speaking more of the concept generally.

Mega Man generally works well with lives because the stages aren't long enough that it's a bother.They're just the right length to keep you pushing through and feeling like you're making progress. The occasional stage that is too long though, or is weirdly checkpointed with them stretched too far apart or not after a miniboss or whatever can be frustrating.

Mega Man also works because of its compartmentalised structure where a game over just kicks you back to the stage select screen without any lost progress (because there isn't really any linear progress to lose outside of the gauntlets that are the Wily stages) compared to something where you might be in the middle level of a world when a game over kicks you back to the start of that world, making you replay stages you've just beaten.
Yeah, this is what I like about Mega Man and the way it handles the difficulty. They balanced it really well. Good post!

This is why I think the developers of Mega Man Unlimited doesn't understand Mega Man well enough. They got the gameplay down, but what they failed to realize is that Mega Man levels are not made to be long. They've made the levels 2-3x the normal length with just about the same amount of checkpoints a Mega Man stage typically does. The game turned out to be very frustrating because of that.
 

TheOGB

Banned
Lives do work much better when a game is segmented effectively for them. You should never lose a shitton of progress over one area you had trouble with.

I like lives because, like in Mega Man games, when I run out, I can stop for a second, get a grip, maybe change my strategy and go for a different objective. Having endless lives and constantly failing at the same thing for so long can get pretty maddening.
 

Tizoc

Member
So uh....Sonic the Hedgehog #252
They did a Flashpoint didn't they =V Well on the one hand it's kinda one way to get over the Penders issue, but I do look forward to seeing how much this reality has changed from the last.
Apparently Geoffrey isn't gonna show up in the comics any more? Because he was becoming one of my fav. characters
 
Unbelievable. My car's been towed by the condo association because apparently all the parking permits I got at closing were visitor ones, and said association is extending me absolutely no sympathy (rather, a $100 bill for a new residential one, on top of the towing charges). The hell is this?
 
Oh man, I don't think I'd be able to even do that. I'd cringe every time I write an instance of hyperbole and go into self-loathing mode.

I bet it made you cringe to even write that!

I cringed more playing the game, speaking of which...

If I speed through a game as fast as possible it’s usually for two reasons, the first is that the game is so damn good I can’t withhold myself from playing it, the other event is when I just want to get a game out of the way, Jak 2 falls into the second category with the unique angle of me wanting to get it out of the way the very moment I started it up. On numerous occasions I wondered why I was even bothering to continue punishing myself playing this wretched turd of a game but I had to satisfy my curiosity, just how utterly awful can Jak 2 get? The answer is simply “very awful”.

It’s not often that I outright dislike a game but take a bow Jak 2, not only do I loathe you but you’ve earned that coveted spot at the top of the putrid podium, you may very well be my most disliked game of all time. The truly fascinating thing about this is that Jak 2 is not a fundamentally broken game, it’s not a glitchy mess, it’s not unfinished and yet even avoiding the main pitfalls of truly dire games it still manages to be a complete wreck.

When the team at Naughty Dog sat down to brainstorm this mess I have to believe that one of main the ideas tossed around was to ensure that the game is never actually fun, damn near every mission in the game exists to infuriate the player with the sole exceptions being the brief platforming focused moments that are possibly more painful to endure knowing that this is what Jak 2 should have been focused on in the first place. Instead Jak 2 seems to focus on other avenues that were popular at the time, GTA being the main inspiration leading as to an open world with a mission structure except without any of the quality of that series and failing on every level to recreate its success. The games open world map is utterly horrendous, incredibly aggravating to traverse thanks to terrible vehicle controls, cluttered and confusing streets and a map that segments itself in such a manner that getting from one side to the other offers little options but to follow the same old winding routes like the game desperately wanted to pad out playtime with tedious traversal. The city may be full of pedestrians (that Jak can uncharacteristically run down) but make no mistake this is a lifeless setting offering nothing to benefit the game, it only detracts.

Of course you can’t be a GTA wannabe without being gritty, never mind how cheery and lighthearted Jak and Daxter was, grey is the colour of the day, bleak and bland locations like Pump Works, Dig Sites and slums are what’s in now. Characters let slip the most minor curse words they can get away with while simultaneously still trying to act cartoony and zany alongside their newfangled “mature” storytelling, oh and Daxter gets drunk and leers at tits, what is this shit?! Playing the first and second games back to back is so incredibly jarring. Jak also has guns now as well as a dark side because it’s what all the cool kids do, never before has a game been so clearly focusing at the teenage market and desperate to cast off the family friendly image of the first game in such a blatantly shameless manner.

Heading back to the games various missions, Jak 2 goes out of its way to bring the player a selection of hated mission types, turret sections? Oh it’s got them, multiple escort missions? You bet! Taxi equivalents, timed checkpoint runs and races making use of terrible driving controls? Oh ho ho ho, Jak 2 you spoil us so. The vast bulk of missions within Jak 2 are all executed in a terribly half arsed fashion, none excel in the areas they venture into, at one point the game throws you a new hoverboard mechanic and immediately expects you to pull off a Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater high score trick run complete with janky controls and unsatisfying mechanics, it wants everything and gets nothing right. Guns forms the core of the game combat, a whopping FOUR weapon types relying on sketchy auto aim against waves of enemies, four hits typically before death and checkpoints are scarce, it’s like they actually designed the game to highlight how half baked their mechanics are and how thoroughly unsatisfying the gunplay is.

Trying to think of a most detestable mission and I’m spoilt for choice, maybe the one where you travel across a long pier constantly besieged by waves upon waves of generic grunts with only four hits until death? perhaps the underwater mech monstrosity? Or maybe a timed mission in the city where you hunt three bullet sponging spider mech things with the law enforcement in constant pursuit? I really don’t know, the game is full of so many lows that I just can’t decide and even the more tolerable missions are hurt by terrible or nonexistent checkpoint placement.

When it comes down to it I didn’t find Jak 2 any fun at all when it wasn’t focused on platforming and that makes up a surprisingly small portion of the whole game, well we’ll always have Mar’s Tomb I guess? (even with it's crappy camera, especially for the Daxter bit) Jak 2 casts aside that what the previous game did well to try and grab a wider audience by being a pale imitation of other games, what’s left is a disjointed mess that betrays its past in both tone and gameplay. This is why I hate this damn game, no sequel has ever felt like quite a heavy “fuck you” to people who liked the the original while also being rife with horrid design decisions that create a truly frustrating experience to endure, in conclusion this game is a colossal calamity of crap.
 
So uh....Sonic the Hedgehog #252
They did a Flashpoint didn't they =V Well on the one hand it's kinda one way to get over the Penders issue, but I do look forward to seeing how much this reality has changed from the last.
Apparently Geoffrey isn't gonna show up in the comics any more? Because he was becoming one of my fav. characters

Explain further please.
 

BHZ Mayor

Member
I think I'm gonna go ahead and boot up Jak 3 and see if it fared any better. If not, at least it's much shorter than 2 so there's that.
 
Explain further please.

I haven't read the comics in forever but my understanding of the situation is:

Ken Penders posited that he owned vast amounts of characters from the Archie Sonic comics. Archie maintained he did not. As it turns out, Archie might not have had Penders under the right kind of contract, so he might, in fact, own those characters. Penders wants them because he has no future prospects besides writing about these dumb Sonic characters, so he wants to do things with the only thing he has a fanbase for so he can make money and continue to live a comfortable life.

This went to court, both sides of the issue dragged their feet on the matter, the Judge got really angry at them for being so stupid and lazy about the lawsuit and basically told everybody to fuck off without giving them a definitive ruling on who owns what.

Penders and Archie apparently came to a settlement outside of court, but nobody knows what exactly that entails. Judging by the hints about what Penders has said, I think Archie can probably still use his characters as long as they pay him for their use.

So, instead, Archie is going "Oh well I guess alternate dimension shenanigans erased a large group of select characters, we'll never see them again". They are also using this opportunity to simplify and redesign the cast.

As for what the actual plot entails, well... I don't know :p
 

Drago

Member
I never finished Jak 3 (only got halfway before burning out) but I love both Jak 1 and Jak 2. All I ever see for Jak 2 is hate though.

Am I crazy?
 

TheOGB

Banned
I am actually sad to see Geoffrey go right as I was warming up him, but eh. Hope this turns out not horribly.



On an unrelated note, unexpected parties are the best*

*granted it doesn't suck when I get there
 

Drago

Member
dunno, never played jak tbh

HD Collection is only $20 new nowadays, well worth that price. The ports are good enough. The first one is a fantastic Mario 64-esque platformer, 2 and 3 took that and made it a gritty GTA type game... which is kinda love/hate for people. I thought I would hate it but it really resonated with me for some reason and I loved it. (2, at least. like I said, never beat 3)

Heard the Vita collection was abysmal though. :/
 

PKrockin

Member
Daxter gets drunk and leers at tits, what is this shit?!

Hahahahaha, I almost forgot about this. And am I nuts or did Daxter actually make a vibrator joke? It's funny, with all the constant scowling and smugass grins, the constant getting in each other's face and accusations of not holding up their end of the bargain... it feels so forced and desperate. The cutscenes are supposed to have a dark tone, I guess, but then at the same exact time Daxter is running around doing goofy shit. I can't remember the last time I felt so much tonal whiplash in a game.

Am I supposed to care about the city being under the oppressive rule of the baron? I'm not even sure. But I still don't know where this place is, I've never met any citizens, I don't know what life is like in the slums here or how it's different from before the baron... so I can't care. There's a reason JRPGs have you putz around the hero's hometown for a little while before the villain comes by and kills your father/burns down your village/kidnaps your girlfriend.

As far as the gameplay goes, it is pretty frustrating and it does feel unfair at times. The auto-aim just doesn't seem to work all the time, and with no real options for dodging to speak of it's easy to get hit and feel like it wasn't your fault. I don't really mind a lack of checkpoints (I'm not one of those people who think the less you're punished for death the better) but if the game isn't very fun, making me redo large parts of it because I slipped up once near the end is a pretty good way of making me put down the controller.

And it's not very fun. There's variety in the gameplay, sure. But I only really enjoyed the platforming. The shooting felt pretty shallow and I was always fighting the auto-aim. I was also always fighting the extremely loose controls of the hoverboarding and driving, often on a time limit, making for a lot of frustration.

Finally, I already talked about the city, but I just remembered in the Making-of video one of designers talked about how in most platformers you warp to levels from a hub, and he seemed really pleased that they made a seamless world instead. Too bad it ended up making the game worse as you end up spending hours over the course of the game driving back and forth, smashing into pedestrians and vehicles left and right on the crowded streets, trying to navigate the needlessly complex maze of a city just to get to the next mission. I wished so many times I could just fly another six feet higher over the tops of the buildings, but no...

So, yeah. I didn't finish the game, but if it continues to get harder from here I don't think it's worth the frustration. If I had to rate it now I'd give it a 2/5, maybe 3/5 giving the rest of the game the benefit of the doubt. Technically it's impressive, but it has a lot of bad design decisions and ideas that weren't properly followed through with that keep me from enjoying it much.

Now to play a frustrating game that's more fun: Spelunky.
 

BHZ Mayor

Member
So far it's not looking so good. 14% and only one platforming mission, the tutorial. After that, all I've been doing is driving and riding reskinned Flut Fluts. Oh and one mission that involved that DDR gameplay everyone put in their minigames in the early 2000's. Funny thing is, I knew this. I knew what this game entailed, yet I jumped in the rabbit hole anyway.
 
Well I made a thread chronicling my viewing of all 4 movies. I've watched 3 of them nearly back-to-back, and I can safely say that 3 is slightly better than 2. 1 is the king, though.

Yeah, I saw the thread. Didn't read too deep in to it though 'cause sometimes fools dare to say that replacement April is better than Judith Hoag and I just can't abide by that, so I figured it was better to keep out of things.

The first movie is pretty much as good a representation of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles as you could hope to get, in terms for drawing from the comics with just a dab from the '87 cartoon. It's pretty much the perfect Turtles experience.
 

Tizoc

Member
What's the overall impression of Lost Worlds 3DS?

Explain further please.

I haven't read the comics in forever but my understanding of the situation is:

Ken Penders posited that he owned vast amounts of characters from the Archie Sonic comics. Archie maintained he did not. As it turns out, Archie might not have had Penders under the right kind of contract, so he might, in fact, own those characters. Penders wants them because he has no future prospects besides writing about these dumb Sonic characters, so he wants to do things with the only thing he has a fanbase for so he can make money and continue to live a comfortable life.

This went to court, both sides of the issue dragged their feet on the matter, the Judge got really angry at them for being so stupid and lazy about the lawsuit and basically told everybody to fuck off without giving them a definitive ruling on who owns what.

Penders and Archie apparently came to a settlement outside of court, but nobody knows what exactly that entails. Judging by the hints about what Penders has said, I think Archie can probably still use his characters as long as they pay him for their use.

So, instead, Archie is going "Oh well I guess alternate dimension shenanigans erased a large group of select characters, we'll never see them again". They are also using this opportunity to simplify and redesign the cast.

As for what the actual plot entails, well... I don't know :p

Pretty much that, but I do hope they come to a resolution that would allow for some characters to return to the comic...

I never finished Jak 3 (only got halfway before burning out) but I love both Jak 1 and Jak 2. All I ever see for Jak 2 is hate though.

Am I crazy?

Nope, but enjoy playing what you like and don't let others opinions bother you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom