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Sonic the Hedgehog Community Thread: Green Hills and Laughing Iizukas
- Thread starter Professor Beef
- Start date
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i'm okay with this.
Pumpkin hill isn't Knuckles theme song, i don't know if it was the same guy who made it or not, but this is knuckles theme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOuZxq68Wp4
I am more okay with this than I thought I would be.
I want a 3D Mushroom Hill Zone if for nothing else then the music.
I know that isn't his theme song. But I'm pretty sure he also did Pumpkin Hill.
Ok, but you are getting your hopes up if you actually think it's Sonic Generations 2.
...That was a joke. I don't think Generations 2 is ever gonna happen as much as I want it.
iizuka-san said in a interview that since Sonic's games are good again, that he wanted to start bringing back alternate gameplay
i don't see why people think Sonic Adventure 3 is so unlikely ;P all the pieces are starting to add up.
maybe it wont be Sonic Adventure 3 by name, but it's definitely going to be Sonic Adventure 3 by aesthetics and game design.
i don't see why people think Sonic Adventure 3 is so unlikely ;P all the pieces are starting to add up.
maybe it wont be Sonic Adventure 3 by name, but it's definitely going to be Sonic Adventure 3 by aesthetics and game design.
Sega can probably grab a lot of attention with SA3 because of SA2's popularity status.
I think SA3 is likely in the future, even if this upcoming game isn't it. But god... please don't do it Sega. Stick with what you got now and add a Chao Garden with online multiplayer modes if you want!
Make it so that everyone plays like some variation of Sonic. Problem solved.
Why even have them if they play almost the same as him?
Same reason they exist in S3&K?
People do like Luigi in Mario Galaxy.
Maybe, but the resources for Sonic Adventure 3 today seems like it'd be a little costly. I don't however think because of Sonic Adventure 2 being rereleased Sonic Adventure 3 has a higher chance of coming out.
We see a NiGHTS rerelease and a Jet Set Radio rerelease. It's a part of their digital plan.
Maybe, but the resources for Sonic Adventure 3 today seems like it'd be a little costly. I don't however think because of Sonic Adventure 2 being rereleased Sonic Adventure 3 has a higher chance of coming out.
We see a NiGHTS rerelease and a Jet Set Radio rerelease. It's a part of their digital plan.
Sonic isn't and has never been the reason SEGA was bleeding money. SEGA was bleeding money because of failed publishing on projects like Binary Domain and such. Big AAA releases that bomb and cost SEGA tons of money.
anyways...
quote from 2010 on Sonic Adventure 3
also this
Iizuka-san, believe! He is the professional
anyways...
quote from 2010 on Sonic Adventure 3
also this
Iizuka-san, believe! He is the professional
With the great freedom allowed in 3D, as well as new techniques (boosting, etc) Sonic stages can have a much greater variety of shortcuts and alternate paths now than they did in Sonic 3. Tails and Knuckles style variations don't really have as much reason to exist when they are already capable of putting in so many alternate paths with just Sonic.
Aaron Strife
Banned
They'd probably just keep the modern Sonic gameplay for Sonic's portions and make up new bullshit for Tails, Knuckles, and those other jerks.
Although Knuckles as a faster Werehog with more emphasis on exploring would be alright.
Maybe this is what was intended by all of that news about focusing more on core franchises? i.e. Sega will have more money to focus on projects like this and Sonic's renowned status gives a better return making a more costly "Adventure" worthwhile?
Thing is though, would SA3 even be anything like SA1 and 2 after all these years, especially with the direction Sega have taken with Sonic's gameplay being so different from the early 3D games?
Thing is though, would SA3 even be anything like SA1 and 2 after all these years, especially with the direction Sega have taken with Sonic's gameplay being so different from the early 3D games?
Why bother having Luigi, Toad and Peach in SMB2, or the former two who control the same as Mario in NSMB? Variety/Multiplayer potential. Tails and Knuckles, at the very least, have strong fanbases and were playable in the classic games. As long as they don't hurt the gameplay, what's to lose by including them for those that want to play as them? It's something I've missed and feel has been lacking in the most recent games seeing as Sonic has been the only playable character.
Apologies, double post.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Sonic can't fly. Sonic can't dig underground or climb walls.
Unless we're talking Colors. But that's cheating.
I want an Adventure 3. Just Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles. 10 zones. All seamlessly connected in a 3D open world. Maybe some co-op action where a second player can play as Tails or Knuckles to help out. A light story.
Am I sounding crazy here? This honestly would be amazing to me. "Adventure" doesn't HAVE to mean they're going to force you to play as a refrigerator with fixed camera angles and Sega Bass Fishing sections. I think Sega can manage it, especially since they have a better grasp of weeding out unfun fucking shit mechanics in a 3D Sonic with Colors and Generations as an indicative.
Also, I'm sick of boost. That is fundamentally not Sonic. Get that shit out.
Shadow Hog
Member
Not to seem like a braggart, but that S-Video-modded Genesis I ordered finally arrived. Check that shit out.
Oh, so that's who the rapper is, huh. I shouldn't be surprised that we know who it was, and yet for some reason I am.
Designing an SA3 a decade after the fact is a thankless job that anyone with a choice should run away screaming from.
I suppose it is time for the monthly Sonic comic thought roundup.
Sonic #237
It's late, I'll do Universe #41 tomorrow. The short answer is that I loved it for one specific reason.
We talked about this a while ago, and I'm still at a loss as to what exactly an open world Sonic environment is supposed to look or play like. It's the complete antithesis of the straightforward arcade gameplay the series is still built around twenty years later.
I suppose it is time for the monthly Sonic comic thought roundup.
Sonic #237
-I like the dark shading on the cover. Very striking.
Main Story:
-Eh, Steven Butler on pencils again. He's the longest running artist still on the series by an enormous margin (going back to #61; I think Jon Gray's the next oldest at #134), but his roots are in superhero comics, and like all the other superhero artists who tried to move to Sonic, it shows. He's not a bad artist (especially compared to former contemporaries like Rom Lim), but he's never quite understood Sega-style character design or proportions, and he's got an odd tendency to make Sonic look... menacing. Pretty much everyone else working on the series does a better job these days.
-Back to the cats and dogs. Butler did the last arc with them too, coincidentally. Ian's done a lot to clean up series canon, but these two groups still feel like the holdovers from a time long past that they are, like if Evil Sonic were still showing up once in a while in his black leather jacket instead of being overhauled into Scourge.
-Robotnik rather rightly questions why robots with lasers can't beat spear, tooth, and fang. Machinery in this universe really doesn't amount to much.
-Asterisk overload returns. I'm not sure it's necessary to footnote so many things that happened within the last year.
-Cubot and Orbot Greatness Check: All signs still positive.
-Robotnik leaning on Sally's own knowledge and experiences for ideas is a fairly dark little idea that I expect to backfire spectacularly somewhere down the line.
-Sonic still has his honorary feather from the last time he was in the area. Amy and Tails are frauds.
-The leotards the wolves wear just do not work for me.
-Has the DEL ever won a battle? Ever?
-"I'm 'ambassador' Sonic. You might remember me by my socks." Okay, that one got me.
-Hathor is basically the only interesting character in this entire region, and that's only as a consequence of the clothing thing.
-Legionization is in some ways even more terrifying than roboticization ever was. There's still the loss of free will, but mixed with the body horror of a dentist gone bad as well.
Backup Story:
-Yardley's back (yay). And it's a Mina & Nicole story, who have two of the best non-Sega character designs in the series.
-Nicole retreating to faceless text always makes for a neat dichotomy with her mobian appearance. It'll be a shame if she ever gets a robot body of some sort. The nanites can take a hike, though.
-My problem with this whole Mina/Nicole conflict is that it has its roots in the Iron Dominion arc which was... unsuccessful, in a number of ways. And this little plot thread in particular stems from Nicole being mind-controlled and Naugus brainwashing the general public. There was never any actual conflict between the two set up, and not much prior interaction to set it against. The end goal here seems to be to grow Nicole as a character, but it's such a hamfisted way of going about it. The idea's fine, but not the execution.
-I'm already getting tired of the SFF.
-Off-Panel is delightfully self-aware this month.
Main Story:
-Eh, Steven Butler on pencils again. He's the longest running artist still on the series by an enormous margin (going back to #61; I think Jon Gray's the next oldest at #134), but his roots are in superhero comics, and like all the other superhero artists who tried to move to Sonic, it shows. He's not a bad artist (especially compared to former contemporaries like Rom Lim), but he's never quite understood Sega-style character design or proportions, and he's got an odd tendency to make Sonic look... menacing. Pretty much everyone else working on the series does a better job these days.
-Back to the cats and dogs. Butler did the last arc with them too, coincidentally. Ian's done a lot to clean up series canon, but these two groups still feel like the holdovers from a time long past that they are, like if Evil Sonic were still showing up once in a while in his black leather jacket instead of being overhauled into Scourge.
-Robotnik rather rightly questions why robots with lasers can't beat spear, tooth, and fang. Machinery in this universe really doesn't amount to much.
-Asterisk overload returns. I'm not sure it's necessary to footnote so many things that happened within the last year.
-Cubot and Orbot Greatness Check: All signs still positive.
-Robotnik leaning on Sally's own knowledge and experiences for ideas is a fairly dark little idea that I expect to backfire spectacularly somewhere down the line.
-Sonic still has his honorary feather from the last time he was in the area. Amy and Tails are frauds.
-The leotards the wolves wear just do not work for me.
-Has the DEL ever won a battle? Ever?
-"I'm 'ambassador' Sonic. You might remember me by my socks." Okay, that one got me.
-Hathor is basically the only interesting character in this entire region, and that's only as a consequence of the clothing thing.
-Legionization is in some ways even more terrifying than roboticization ever was. There's still the loss of free will, but mixed with the body horror of a dentist gone bad as well.
Backup Story:
-Yardley's back (yay). And it's a Mina & Nicole story, who have two of the best non-Sega character designs in the series.
-Nicole retreating to faceless text always makes for a neat dichotomy with her mobian appearance. It'll be a shame if she ever gets a robot body of some sort. The nanites can take a hike, though.
-My problem with this whole Mina/Nicole conflict is that it has its roots in the Iron Dominion arc which was... unsuccessful, in a number of ways. And this little plot thread in particular stems from Nicole being mind-controlled and Naugus brainwashing the general public. There was never any actual conflict between the two set up, and not much prior interaction to set it against. The end goal here seems to be to grow Nicole as a character, but it's such a hamfisted way of going about it. The idea's fine, but not the execution.
-I'm already getting tired of the SFF.
-Off-Panel is delightfully self-aware this month.
It's late, I'll do Universe #41 tomorrow. The short answer is that I loved it for one specific reason.
As much as I love the gameplay of the last few 3D Sonic games... yeah I think I can easily live without boost. Not a great feature. Though it's pretty fun in time attacks.
If we go by that then I believe Sonic '06 has already claimed that title.
Hm, a new Sonic game that allowed you to switch playable characters between stages ala SMB2 would be nice. I think Sonic Advance 3 was the only one to manage it though I didn't like how it was implemented in that game.
I imagine it being very much like parkour; give the player more or less free movement around the environment. The real issue it implementing it in a way that makes sense. I sometimes wonder if they could construct the world like the mountain(s) in some SSX games I've played, where action stages are like events tied to specific parts of the world or something. I can live without adventure fields, but it would be fun to have them again albeit more worthwhile.
The only real reason I dislike the boost is that it can give an out of control feeling making the levels feel kind of automated. Press right to win becomes boost to win.
What if they modified it so that instead of making Sonic go really fast, it makes everything else appear much slower? That could allow for some interesting challenges.
Pretty much.
I like what they were trying to go for in Advance 3, but the duo/team gameplay never seems to work in that and Heroes. I think that it needs to be optional, like in the originals. That's one of my main gripes with Sonic 4 Episode 2; the teamwork moves seem to be more or less required to beat the stages.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
Boosting is just a more convenient, direct spindash. It's not 1:1, but they accomplish a lot of the same game design ideas.
Honestly, after Sonic Unleashed's daytime levels, I would be fine if they turned the Sonic franchise in to a more time-trial centric racing game. For as fun as they are, Sonic Colors and to a lesser extent Sonic Generations are missing something that Sonic Unleashed got right, and I think it might be the bits where they slow you down and have you do platforming. There's not enough
"I'm going too fast oh shit oh fuck oh shit oh fuck OH SHIT OH FUCK WAIT I MADE IT"
Those moments are fueled by relying on the boost as a primary mechanic, and as somebody who championed the way the Genesis games did things for the longest time, I think I'd prefer it if they kept going down the path set by Sonic Unleashed.
I need more white knuckle cold sweat gameplay.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
That's not too far off from the way it was and still kind of is, given that the Sonic franchise has no hard-locked "ruleset" anymore.
SA2 was completely different from SA1, Heroes was completely different from SA2, Shadow was completely different from Heroes, Sonic 06 was completely different from Shadow, Unleashed was completely different from 06, Colors was pretty different from Unleashed, and so on.
What they really need to do is sit down and hammer out a standardized control scheme - the "one true way" Sonic controls so they don't have to keep re-inventing the wheel in every single game.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Aww. Fucking SEGA.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
All I want to see are more open 3D levels, and a well-implemented momentum physics system that is complemented by the level design. And less Iizuka-school bullshit, like overly-stupid plot-lines and Big the Cat nonsense.
Too bad the latter won't happen with Iizuka in control.
Too bad the latter won't happen with Iizuka in control.
PhantomOfTheKnight
Member
The last game with a stupid plot was 06.
Shadow Hog
Member
Black Knight's plot was pretty stupid, wasn't it? I'll admit I didn't play it, so I dunno.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Eh, Sonic Unleashed wasn't "stupid" but it suffered from the same BS as all the others. It was basically Adventure's plot rehashed, with zero improvements (beyond the lack of Big, I guess).
Nah, it was decent. Had a neat twist too.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
See: I don't understand why Iizuka wants or, for any reason at all, adds frivolous plot details in a Sonic game. Mario doesn't need plot, and the best Mario games tell their plot by having very little of it. Same goes with Sonic. Hell: Iizuka was a designer on Sonic & Knuckles, a game that worked with Sonic 3 to tell an epic story using minimal means. That worked very well, almost like a moving cartoon with short-enough cutscenes.
Now, though, I just think Iizuka needs to get away from Sonic, because his style of overloading players with detail-ridden stories and the occasional plot-hole only worked in Sonic Adventure 1. He neglects other important parts of the game's design and overall execution to focus on things that Sonic games usually don't benefit from. Not a good idea, sparky.
It's not that I can't see a good story-line being permitted in a Sonic game. Sonic Adventure 1 used the Rashomon approach to forming interesting side-plots inside of an overarching framework, and I liked its story the most out of all Sonic games with a clear-cut plot. But, ever since then, Iizuka's plot-based Sonic games haven't been anywhere near as good in terms of execution and pacing as his original, and other Sonic game directors/producers have been having trouble with it too. Sonic Team needs to build upon its basic development strengths first, and they need to do it as a team. Colors and Generations were great, but those titles alone won't guarantee them a future in making consistently-good products. And the less said about plot-lines involving blowing up the Moon and revealing a molten core inside, the better!
Now, though, I just think Iizuka needs to get away from Sonic, because his style of overloading players with detail-ridden stories and the occasional plot-hole only worked in Sonic Adventure 1. He neglects other important parts of the game's design and overall execution to focus on things that Sonic games usually don't benefit from. Not a good idea, sparky.
It's not that I can't see a good story-line being permitted in a Sonic game. Sonic Adventure 1 used the Rashomon approach to forming interesting side-plots inside of an overarching framework, and I liked its story the most out of all Sonic games with a clear-cut plot. But, ever since then, Iizuka's plot-based Sonic games haven't been anywhere near as good in terms of execution and pacing as his original, and other Sonic game directors/producers have been having trouble with it too. Sonic Team needs to build upon its basic development strengths first, and they need to do it as a team. Colors and Generations were great, but those titles alone won't guarantee them a future in making consistently-good products. And the less said about plot-lines involving blowing up the Moon and revealing a molten core inside, the better!
PhantomOfTheKnight
Member
To be honest, I actually think Black Knight has the best writing of any 3D Sonic game. I think it's morseo the concept of the game (HURRDUURSONICWITHASWORD) than the actual story of the game. The thing I like about Black Knight's story is the fact the SEGA actually did their research on the mythos of King Arthur and paid respect to it, not to mention that Black Knight is one of the only 3D games that I think not only captures the essence of Sonic's character perfectly, but also adds some depths to it, unlike in Colours where his cockiness felt completely one-sided and he wouldn't shut the hell up. It also helps that he was given someone to talk to in the form of Caliburn, who was actually a well-written character, unlike in Colors where he's talkin to inanimate objects like an idiot.
Yeah, Unleashed was essentially a modernization of Sonic Adventure's plot; It was a simple Monster-of-the-week plot, but unlike Adventure, instead of focusing on the different stories of different characters, some of which have weren't really necessary (Big, Amy, and, to a lesser extent, Gamma), it focused solely on Sonic and Chip, not to mention actually giving Eggman some actual screentime, and making him a decent comedic vilain, which is practically the only strength that Colours had in terms of writing.
It was simple and straightforward, but everything that was there was there for a purpose; With Colours, it felt like it was being simple just for simplicity's sake. I liked that Chip got a meaningful albeit rather small and packed-in arc that contributed to the plot, unlike in Colours, where Yacker dissapears halfway through the game and they never explain where the hell he went, and that Chi[ serves his purpose and is a one-time only character.
Unleashed also had much better humor than Colours, which mostly derived from subtle quips, badly-placed cartoonish sound effects and blink-and-you'll-miss-it onscreen moments, whereas with Colours I felt they tried waaaay too hard to be like the cartoons and it was just painful to watch. I also wasn't a big fan of what they did to
Another thing that I though Unleashed did really well at that Sonic 2006 failed at doing was have a well-developed world ala the unique NPCs, which also had there own arcs and stuff, such as one of the tribe girls from Mazuri going to Spagonia trying to find her true love (I think the first Adventure had something like this, but I don't remember), going and getting souvenirs for Professor Pickle (BRING HIM BACK DAMMIT, along with the ghosts from Night of the Werehog), or helping that chick from Empire City become. The only real downside to Unleashed was that Sonic himself can be seen as a little bland and out-of-character, but I always thought that that was becuase he was mostly interested in helpin Chip find his memories and being a good friend and stuff.
It's not about having a great plot, but it's abou having a competent one, at least in terms of Sonic, and by far, Unleashed's story and world have the most personality of all the 3D games, and that's what I like about it.
...I think you're confusing Adventure 2 with Unleashed.
Unleashed = Sonic Adventure 4: Sonic World Adventure
Dimensions (lol) = Sonic World Adventure 2: Angel Island
That reminds me of an old sig I used to rock on another forum:
Hashimoto said in an interview that Sonic World Adventure was originally going to be called Sonic Adventure 3. Then they decided against it due to various reasons. So that kills any speculation that Sonic 06 is Sonic Adventure 3. A game isn't Sonic Adventure 3 unless it's led by Iizuka-san.
If it walks like a duck...
BlazeHedgehog
Member
Iizuka said, during the production of NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams, that he feels adding complex plotlines improves gameplay.
Which, to a certain, minor extent, he is right. When there is context and motivation, gameplay has a little more impact. But at the time, it sounded like he felt the stories in his games were equal substitutes for good gameplay.
After Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games, Iizuka came away saying he had re-evaluated his perspective on the idea that storyline makes gameplay better. Seeing those games had apparently made him realize that Sonic is the kind of character who wants to have fun, not get tangled up in epic storylines. One wonders if maybe Sonic Generations initially had more to its plot - would certainly fill in a couple of odd holes they never explained.
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