Nocturnowl
Member
Sonic's special stages are naff anyway so this may well be an improvement.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Sonic the Hedgehog Community Thread |OT3 & Knuckles|
- Thread starter Professor Beef
- Start date
Sonic's special stages are naff anyway so this may well be an improvement.
Azure Dream
Member
I was kind of sad to see M2 cast a little shade on the Mobile release's Special Stages. Taxman's version was pretty faithful.
Ludger Kresnik
Member
Pretty sure I've bought more copies of Sonic 2 than any other game. With the 3DS version I'm up to like six.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
"Over any other Sonic games" is a bit of a stretch, but I would definitely buy Steam versions of Sonic Advance 1 and 2. Maybe Sonic Battle and Pinball Party, too.
But I'm not sure how Nintendo feels about that. I know Sonic Advance has had other ports on other platforms, though, like Sonic N and an Android port of Sonic Advance, so maybe they don't actually care and Sega can do whatever they want with those games
Something else I wouldn't mind it if they dug up and ported to a platform somebody actually owns in 2015: Sonic Pocket Adventure. It's never left the Neo Geo Pocket Color and it's as good or better than any of the Sonic Advance games
Hot Coldman
Banned
Hmm, I think it's just differing philosophies. M2 are really, really devoted to replicating a game perfectly on a technical level, whilst Taxman clearly went down the "this is how you remember it in your head" approach. Both are valid, but to be honest I think M2 just liked the challenge.
It's definitely not a stretch for me, though it helps that most of my favourite Sonic games are already on Steam. So out of the rest that aren't there's not a lot I care to see ported. Colours and Unleashed would be cool.
Tizoc
Member
So I just chanced upon this which I am treating as a rumor
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/09/28/archie-comics-loses-a-fifth-of-their-staff/
Could it be related to the hiatus of the Megaman comic and word of SU ending?
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/09/28/archie-comics-loses-a-fifth-of-their-staff/
Could it be related to the hiatus of the Megaman comic and word of SU ending?
I'm surprised Archie Comics had such a small staff size. That would make the downsize even more disheartening to the ones that remain.
Azure Dream
Member
Putting the Boom comic on hiatus, despite the cartoon doing well enough to get a second season, probably should've been an alarm bell...
The majority of Archie's workers don't work under Archie specifically.
Ian Flynn is head writer but he doesn't work in Archie's office (in fact is writing for IDW as well for the TMNT comic). Jon Gray does a lot of stuff for the Sonic comic but is doing a lot of Disney stuff now too.
Shadow Hog
Member
Pros:
- It looks good. It's not as heavy on details as Generations was, but the clean art style has its own appeal, and it runs at a smooth 60FPS at all times.
- I really like the gravity mechanics - it's sort of what I expected Xtreme to be like, and the tube-like formation of many of the 3D stages allows for multiple paths despite still being linear.
- The music is pretty great, but outside of one or two games in the series this is just par for the course.
- I love that they brought back so many of the Badniks from the Genesis games/CD - although that's not exactly new, they'd been doing it since Colors.
Cons:
- The plot attempts drama, but resolves it far too easily. Not deus ex machina levels of bull, but still pretty lame.
- The Deadly Six aren't particularly compelling villains. They come out of nowhere and don't really seem to have any motivations other than "for the evulz". I know that an air of mystery can work in favor of some characters - like Batman in Tim Burton's 1989 film of the same name, or The Joker in The Dark Knight - but it just doesn't work here.
- The final boss is incredibly anticlimactic, plot-wise. It's not terrible gameplay-wise, if nothing to write home about, either - but plot-wise, it felt like they wrote in a really flimsy justification for why they used what they used.
- The controls feel awkward. I know some people had proposed giving the series a run button in the past, but the implementation here just doesn't feel good; the walking speed is too slow, the running speed is too fast, and the amount of weight behind either movement never feels quite right. This gets exacerbated in mid-air, because your only ability to change velocity in mid-air is your double jump, which frequently doesn't influence your arc as strongly as you want it to - or just as frequently, influences it too far in that direction.
- Whenever you're running, you'll automatically parkour on walls, so people instinctively holding the run button down because Mario will start running up walls they don't want to.
- The new homing attack mechanics feel kind of weird at times. The idea of being able to attack the same enemy multiple times in one button press takes a bit of getting used to. Attacking multiple enemies with this is a little more fun, but it doesn't always line up as you'd expect it to.
- The new drop-kicking mechanic is also pretty weird. Used on a single enemy, it tends to break flow more than anything else. Still, some enemies have to be tackled with kicks instead of homing attacks, so muscle memory from prior Sonic games will be actively fighting against you here if you expect to just Homing Attack everything under the sun and get by.
- The stage themes aren't terribly consistent. Putting a dessert stage in the desert world is cute, but a stage called "Sky Road" shouldn't translate to "rehashes of many of the previous stages' themes".
- I have no idea what the heck they were going for with the flying levels. You hit the jump button to curl into a ball and descend, or else the air flow pushes you up to the top of the screen (where an invisible boundary will keep you). It feels counter-intuitive.
- There are Wisps here, but with no justification for why. They never really felt like they added much to the game, honestly.
- You have to grind animals to play later stages. This is as tedious as it sounds.
- In the end, it felt like I was forcing myself to complete it instead of completing it just because I was having fun - which isn't usually a good sign.
If you can believe it, despite me remembering more cons with it than pros, I'm more ambivalent toward the game than outright disliking it.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
I put together a Sonic Lost World video review over yonder. It's a little out of date, given one of my complaints did end up getting patched. Does not save the game from being terrible, though.
To expand on what Shadow Hog said, basically, the game is just kind of weirdly sloppy in unexpected places. The game cribs from Mario in the worst places, for the worst reasons, and doesn't really make sense a lot of the time.
Level designs are often overly simplistic. The square, boxy tube/planetoid theme almost entirely eliminates the slopes, hills and valleys Sonic is known for, and some levels can be finished with minimal interaction from the player. Controls can feel unwieldy and "sticky" (if that makes any sense), where you'll often do things you don't mean to do, or you'll be punished for not knowing which of the two nearly-identical attacks you should use to defeat an enemy.
The story lacks any kind of charm, choosing to instead raise a lot of questions (seemingly intentionally?) and then never once answer any of them. What are the Zeti? Are there more than six of them? What's with Eggman's conch shell? Sonic Lost World says, "Don't worry about it, it's not important." Which just raises another, ultimately more important question: then why bother telling me any of this stuff to begin with?
I believe the comparison I make in the video review (or intended to make) was that Sonic Lost World misunderstands the appeal of Super Mario Galaxy in a lot of the same ways that Sonic 4 misunderstood the appeal of the Classic Sonic games. It is clumsy to the point of feeling legitimately incompetent.
To expand on what Shadow Hog said, basically, the game is just kind of weirdly sloppy in unexpected places. The game cribs from Mario in the worst places, for the worst reasons, and doesn't really make sense a lot of the time.
Level designs are often overly simplistic. The square, boxy tube/planetoid theme almost entirely eliminates the slopes, hills and valleys Sonic is known for, and some levels can be finished with minimal interaction from the player. Controls can feel unwieldy and "sticky" (if that makes any sense), where you'll often do things you don't mean to do, or you'll be punished for not knowing which of the two nearly-identical attacks you should use to defeat an enemy.
The story lacks any kind of charm, choosing to instead raise a lot of questions (seemingly intentionally?) and then never once answer any of them. What are the Zeti? Are there more than six of them? What's with Eggman's conch shell? Sonic Lost World says, "Don't worry about it, it's not important." Which just raises another, ultimately more important question: then why bother telling me any of this stuff to begin with?
I believe the comparison I make in the video review (or intended to make) was that Sonic Lost World misunderstands the appeal of Super Mario Galaxy in a lot of the same ways that Sonic 4 misunderstood the appeal of the Classic Sonic games. It is clumsy to the point of feeling legitimately incompetent.
Missed this from last month: S2HD music spotlight
-The core gameplay is fantastic
-Visually, looks fairly good, although backgrounds aren't as impressive
The controls, despite others listing it as a con, is easily its greatest strength. I appreciate its difficulty curve, and found it a blast to use once you got adjusted to it.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
I actually kind of really like playing Sonic Runners
Everything surrounding it is awful garbage though (the roulette, the leveling up system, the idea of spending rings on the ability to take a partner with you, the preschooler storyline)
BlazeHedgehog
Member
SonicGAF, I bring you life
http://www.tssznews.com/2015/10/26/...-be-more-inspired-by-how-it-played-in-heyday/
Who's ready for Sonic the Hedgehog 5: Season 1?
http://www.tssznews.com/2015/10/26/...-be-more-inspired-by-how-it-played-in-heyday/
Who's ready for Sonic the Hedgehog 5: Season 1?
They got it with the Unleashed/Colors/Generations model; they just can't seem to stop reinventing the wheel.
If you're referring to "how it played in its heyday" I wouldn't say they 'got it' with those three games. Not even Generations Classic.
Generations Classic is tons of fun as a platformer, but plays significantly differently from the classics.
I wouldn't mind more of that. Nor would I mind an actual successful throwback.
I don't mean to do the whole 'fans do it better' dance (because that's pure bollocks) but Freedom Planet scratched the classic Sonic itch hard and it doesn't even play the same way. Lilac controls much less like a paraplegic rock accelerating from zero for example.
Generations Classic is tons of fun as a platformer, but plays significantly differently from the classics.
I wouldn't mind more of that. Nor would I mind an actual successful throwback.
I don't mean to do the whole 'fans do it better' dance (because that's pure bollocks) but Freedom Planet scratched the classic Sonic itch hard and it doesn't even play the same way. Lilac controls much less like a paraplegic rock accelerating from zero for example.
Ah, no; I don't care at all for the 2D sections in those games, I was thinking more about the 3D sections.
I think the main reason Generations levels ended up shorter (aside from more branching paths) and then Lost World ended up with a very different visual aesthetic overall is those games are prohibitively expensive to make for their RoI, even with a (damaged or otherwise) branding like Sonic.
I really wouldn't mind a simpler art style with longer levels in the realm of Unleashed's lineup, so I'm with you in hoping they're not entirely done with that.
I really wouldn't mind a simpler art style with longer levels in the realm of Unleashed's lineup, so I'm with you in hoping they're not entirely done with that.
I remember when 06 was touted as "going back to the roots" lol.
I do have to be honest, what I REALLY want in my heart of hearts is a game like Sonic Adventure 1 (but better obviously; there's some really obvious pitfalls in that game's design that can be avoided easily), not really like Sonic 1, 2, or CD.
Sonic 3 and SA1 really speak to me in that their most defining characters in relation to the other games are similar imo. Hard to put it into words but they have a very very similar "vibe". I want to see that again (Unleashed touched on it a bit too but something about it felt different).
I really want a game that looks like this:
and not like this:
Not that I hate the more whimsical, colorful, and cartoony look - it's ok I guess, but I just vastly prefer what Sonic 3, SA1, and Unleashed went for visually. And I liked the tone of the story in S3 and SA1 a lot too.
Ya mean that thing you have been doing for the past few years thematically that slowly driven its seems quite a bit of people away. Because of instead of focusing on quality you focused on the idea of classic sonic, and turns out all it got you was diminishing returns. And no matter how hard you try and ape the 90's it wont fix/uninteresting video games.
But nah , just... just keep banging your head against that wall sega.
But eh, sega been on some bullshit before, heck they are still on some bullshit with sonic now regarding boom. So at this point one of next years games could be shadow the hedgehog: Revengencing. At this point I don't believe them.
cereal_killerxx
Junior Member
Debating about picking up Sonic Lost World. Is it really as bad as the reviews make it out to be?
BlazeHedgehog
Member
Somebody asked me something very similar on my Tumblr the other day. That post is in the queue and won't go up for a while, but here's what I told the guy:
It’s more garbage every time I play it. I have this terrible affliction where sometimes I’ll get bored and think “[insert Sonic game] probably wasn’t so bad, I kind of want to revisit it” and it’s always worse than my memories.
Lost World is so… just… flat.
And I mean that both literally and metaphorically. Its attempt to be “Sonic's version of Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario 3D World!” ends up giving you a lot of very uninteresting environments. They look good, I guess, with some nice high resolution textures, a silky-smooth framerate, and decent art direction…
But they don’t feel like anything. They don’t stand out. They don’t really have tons of great, memorable personality (which goes for quite a lot of other elements in the game).
And they are also just physically flat. This is something I struggled to communicate before release, but it’s like, you look at a level in Sonic Generations or Sonic Unleashed and it’s like…
Hills! Slopes! Curves! Turns! And then you play Sonic Lost World and it’s like… sure, it’s got planetoids, and weird tube-shaped levels, but there’s almost nothing to it. Imagine planet earth, but with no lakes, no oceans, no mountains, no canyons. A mathematically perfect shape.
There’s no slopes, no hills, barely any changes in elevation. Whatever curves and turns presented in the level are mostly automated, as the camera swings to follow the path, basically steering Sonic for you.
And it’s so boring, which makes it equally as bizarre when the difficulty randomly spikes in a few places. Sonic Lost World is a game that flips between two different extremes but never finds a happy, comfortable medium. One moment it is putting you to sleep, the next it’s daring you to snap your $125 Wii U gamepad in half.
And so much about the game is so… clumsy. The parkour is clumsy. You constantly attach to surfaces you don’t want to, but since parkour is tied to the run button, you can’t escape it. And then you have the stupid homing attack/drop kick system, which the game makes zero effort to communicate. Why can’t you kill these robotic spiders? Because you have two nearly identical attack buttons, and only one of them works depending on which phase you’re on, and the game never communicates why one works and the other doesn’t. It just does.
And then of course there’s the story, which is… just… no. They hired writers, they brought in voice actors, they had cinematic directors, and all for a story that doesn’t know what it’s trying to be, doesn’t know what wants to accomplish, and leaves behind ALL of the loose ends. “Here’s our story, please care about our mysteries, but don’t care about them too much because none of it really matters.” Great, thanks for your contribution, I’m glad you wasted your money and my time, Sega.
And it’s just… it’s the worst. It is actually the worst. This wasn’t a game that failed because Sega pushed it out the door before it was done. It failed because it’s just bad idea after bad idea, boring level on top of boring level. It is so confused about what it’s trying to be that it ends up turning in to nothing, made for nobody.
Like just typing this about the game is giving me a headache.
In short: Yes.
Tizoc
Member
On the one hand, the game would get a good modding community that would offer a better experience than the original game.
On the other you wanna buy it just for the sake of supporting SEGA's PC efforts.
I mean no doubt this game will run well, but as I understand it it is very very bland, and that's just putting it nicely.
On the other you wanna buy it just for the sake of supporting SEGA's PC efforts.
I mean no doubt this game will run well, but as I understand it it is very very bland, and that's just putting it nicely.
SpikedGunner
Member
I'd honestly buy the PC port on release if I didn't have a budgeting issue right now, even with it's fault, it was an okay game. I do want to see what the modding community does with it though.
I hated it and was happy to see the credits when I played on Wii U last year. It's like Sonic Team probed my brain to see everything I'd ever want from a Sonic game, down to the most minute details in the art style and game design - then did literally the exact opposite for every single one.
That's not going to happen.
When Sonic Hacking Contest 2015 Generations winner is something brianuuu made that has like 7k views on a release trailer from last year (and is 80% a port), you know the modding community is dead, fizzled out with roughly zero completed projects of note based on original levels.
And Lost World's gameplay is harder to nail than Generations. (Heck, Sonic Team themselves arguably couldn't nail it on their first outing)
Shadow Hog
Member
Oh, no, those are probably being pulled because of licensing issues with Dreams Come True.
but then why are a bunch of different versions of Sonic 1 and 2 (3DS, for example) still allowed to stay up?
Professor Beef
Banned
Different contracts.
Shadow Hog
Member
I mean, they're pulling the Master System version of Sonic [1] from Wii VC, too. I'm pretty sure they're not making way for a Taxman port of that game, fun as it is.
So this means SEGA might now be thinking "Oh noooo we need to renew the contracts and if we do that we might as well do it for the enhanced versions!@!#!!!"
...
......
Happy Halloween!