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Sonic the Hedgehog Community Thread |OT3 & Knuckles|

Tizoc

Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9vNcKSNgjY

Lost World Mods are moving along at a swift step, primarily because it's a tweaked Hedgehog Engine. I thought this was was pretty clever, swapping out the Tornado for Metal Sonic's car, it looks great in the stage.

Dem footprints in the sand
DAT METAL OVERLORD
DAT 'WHAT I'M MADE OF'

Glad to see modding is moving along well I'll pick it up in an upcoming sale and hopefully we get an interesting mod come 2016 :D

Speaking of which, I suddenly start re-invisioning a remake of Sonic Heroes:
Basically you control only one character, stages are redone to allow for different routes so that depending on the character you're using, you can take an alt. route. Granted it'd be for novelty's sake but at least it removes monotony
Special Stages are changed to be less tedious and be in the spirit of Sonic 2 and 3.

Mind you this is a simplification of some of the ideas I had, so feel free to offer your own ideas etc.
 
Speaking of which, I suddenly start re-invisioning a remake of Sonic Heroes:
Basically you control only one character, stages are redone to allow for different routes so that depending on the character you're using, you can take an alt. route. Granted it'd be for novelty's sake but at least it removes monotony
Special Stages are changed to be less tedious and be in the spirit of Sonic 2 and 3.

Mind you this is a simplification of some of the ideas I had, so feel free to offer your own ideas etc.

Honestly, the idea of Sonic Heroes isn't bad, it's just the implementation that sucks. Marathon copy-paste level design without breaks, weird controls issues, anything other than the NTSC GameCube version being riddled with glitches (and not like that version is totally clear of them), absolutely awful camera that got in the way of the game at times...

(Nerd rambles ahead.)
I've thought about a sequel before. Online, vaguely PSO-esque structure with 4 players. There's something like 5 or 6 different Types, and characters can either have a certain degree of two types, or specialize in one, based on a certain pool of points. Your character does two, you can access certain routes, and each one gets an ability on an action button. (X and Y, or whatever.) You pick a single Type character, you get the normal ability, but a much better one for that Type as well. The characters also have a certain amount of points in their Type, so while a character may be able to heal, or hack, or knock down a door, they may be slower or less effective at it than some other characters. The Types that make up the group (and possibly the characters chosen) influence which Team Blasts are available, and the group votes on one at the start of a mission. These do more than just break enemies now, and can give stat boosts, heal the group, you get the picture.

Levels have a critical path, that can be slowly progressed through, but is clearly not the ideal choice and is short on rewards. Stages are designed (and marked on the menu) to encourage two or three different classes each, with exceptions. Early on a stage slaps you in the face with "THIS IS THE FLIGHT ROUTE," but as the game progresses, markers get more subtle, like a patch of yellow flowers might hint at something being up high, or red scratches on a wall. In order for the group to stay together when specifically flying, running fast, etc, you can press a trigger button to "slipstream" to one of your three partners. (Or if you're falling in a pit and panic, press all three, and you may luck out and latch on to someone.) This is like the Heroes formations, and puts you in line with them, carrying you along with where they go. If characters get left behind or KOed, they can be restored at checkpoints. If they're intentionally hanging back and holding up the group, Zero chases them down, and if they don't catch up, a bot takes over their character and they're forced to play a helpful Chao instead. (Yeah, this game better have bots, good ones.)

Crap-ton of characters. Bring back ones that haven't seen the spotlight in a while, plunder more obscure Sonic media that they have clear license to. Sell character packs, and skins. There's the six types, with varying stats, mixed up with a couple different fighting styles (spinball, judo, melee weapon, etc), it would be enough to keep most of the characters fresh, and small overlaps just let people go with their preferences. If there's budget, let people make their own Deviant the Art, let them pick Type(s) and stats, pick fighting style, pick species, colors, gender, voice... and oh yes, sell them hats and other clothes and accessories. Cosmetic the Microtransaction.

It's a pet idea of mine, so I could go much further into the details than I doubt anyone would care about.
 

Falk

that puzzling face
If you replaced Werehog with Knuckles it literally would have been an SA2 style of gameplay split but two ways instead of three ways.

The levels were just too long. And in some cases, a little too much reliant on precise platforming with insta-death pits for what's supposed to be a brawler. (Empire City/Adabat/Eggmanland hi)
 

Surta

Member
anything other than the NTSC GameCube version being riddled with glitches
I played Heroes on PAL GameCube and it wasn't glitchy either. Played it in 60 Hz, so the experience was probably identical to the NTSC release.
Also, the PC version ran well, too, at least not as far as I can recall (haven't played it in a long time).

If you replaced Werehog with Knuckles it literally would have been an SA2 style of gameplay split but two ways instead of three ways.

The levels were just too long. And in some cases, a little too much reliant on precise platforming with insta-death pits for what's supposed to be a brawler. (Empire City/Adabat/Eggmanland hi)
I completely agree. The Werehog in Unleashed was actually better than I expected. But three things dragged it down for me:
  1. The levels were too long, especially the later ones.
  2. Precision platforming. Or actually just that stupid balancing on spiked beams over bottomless pits. A tiny nudge to either side and the game would register a collision with the spikes, throwing you off into the bottomless pit. That sucked hard. If they had used normal beams that could be grabbed onto, it wouldn't have been half as bad.
  3. That battle music... It interrupted the beautiful normal background music far too frequently. There should have been an option to disable it.
 

Falk

that puzzling face
The funny part about the battle music was, it's one long loop, but it can start at any of 4 places.

Meaning it could have been worse, and/or they figured it was repetitive thus did some homework to mitigate it.
 
I think the main technical problems with the werehog stages were the length and the incredibly choppy framerate.

On another level, I also just plain wasn't looking for that style of gameplay in a Sonic game. It just felt like the filler that you had to slog through to get to the good parts of the game to me.
 
One thing I recall coming up with to "fix" Heroes was giving each form a dedicated action button, instead of awkwardly trying to flip around between them in the heat of the action. So, one button would always do something Speed related, another would always be Fly-related, and a third would always be Power-related. You'd presumably switch to the formation of the last button you hit.

In retrospect that wouldn't cover half of Heroes's problems, but it'd at least smooth out some of the clunkiness of formation-switching.
 
Everything about the Werehog is pretty much terrible. I don't like Unleashed at all, even the daytime stages starts to annoy me after a point because of all the endless pits and running on water segments.

If the Werehog was just a straight-up platformer or something similar to Amy in SA1, I guess I would've at least tolerated it.
 

OMG Aero

Member
I think the werehog would have been fine if its attack power started at max level and you only level up to get new moves and more health/shield/unleash meter.

ALSO IF THEY REMOVED THE BEES
R7lM7Os.png
 

Falk

that puzzling face
I think the main technical problems with the werehog stages were the length and the incredibly choppy framerate.

On another level, I also just plain wasn't looking for that style of gameplay in a Sonic game. It just felt like the filler that you had to slog through to get to the good parts of the game to me.

Well yeah, I guess Unleashed and Generations are two sides to the coin in terms of what you can do when shit is so expensive to make and goes by so fast literally half the screen is a constant blur. One padded out the game, the other was pretty much 5 hours of content including missions.

Lost World's aesthetic was a step in the right direction. Sonic games don't really need to look like a Pixar movie.

Unleashed was/is one of the best looking games from last gen though. It paid off
 

Village

Member
So for those folks who care, I guess because of the episode of sonic boom today, the finale, They are adding shadow at some point to that mobile game they got going around sonic boom.

Kirk thorton's shadow voice is still not great

Thats about it
 

Regiruler

Member
If you replaced Werehog with Knuckles it literally would have been an SA2 style of gameplay split but two ways instead of three ways.

The levels were just too long. And in some cases, a little too much reliant on precise platforming with insta-death pits for what's supposed to be a brawler. (Empire City/Adabat/Eggmanland hi)

I don't remember that much of precision platforming
I played the Wii version
 

TheOGB

Banned
Wii Werehog didn't control as bad as HD Werehog iirc, but fuck them anyway for still having too-long night sections just split up into 3-4 levels
 
Wii Werehog controlled worse, if you ask me. Double "tapping" the analog stick to run, stiff animations, stiff combos, and binding punches to the triggers made it feel super gross
 
I liked the Wii Werehog mechanics a little more, like hanging from enemies longer, holding boxes over your head to block flames, the puzzle temples that changed you based on touching sunlight, and no balance beams. The fighting was much worse, though.
 

Sami+

Member
So for those folks who care, I guess because of the episode of sonic boom today, the finale, They are adding shadow at some point to that mobile game they got going around sonic boom.

Kirk thorton's shadow voice is still not great

Thats about it

I really wish they'd get David Humphrey back - I liked his voice for Shadow. Him and Ryan Drummandare the only ones I think are still the best voices for their respective characters though. Not best acted, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on being a hell of a lot better with better voice direction.
 

TheOGB

Banned
I get the feeling that some or many of the people behind Sonic Boom do not care much for Shadow

And to be honest, if we're picking a voice for him, put me down for Jason Griffith.
 
I really wish they'd get David Humphrey back - I liked his voice for Shadow. Him and Ryan Drummandare the only ones I think are still the best voices for their respective characters though. Not best acted, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on being a hell of a lot better with better voice direction.

Yeah, there's something about Humphrey's performance that I think really fit the character. I don't really care for Shadow much, and haven't since I was like, 10, but I still like how he sounds in Adventure 2 & Heroes.
 

Village

Member

Anth0ny

Member
the 16 bit war is still alive and well

seems like there are still plenty of mario fans out there that HATE sonic for some reason. I see less hostility on the sonic side.
 

Tizoc

Member
You guys sorta posted some of what I would've posted in replying to my question heh.

the 16 bit war is still alive and well

seems like there are still plenty of mario fans out there that HATE sonic for some reason. I see less hostility on the sonic side.

Good thing I'm avoiding it then :p Personally though...I'd go the Sonic Trilogy for the Genesis/MD, if only because you can beat each game quickly and still enjoy and appreciate its graphics and music.

Mario games were rather long and I don't think I'd ever touch OG SMB2 JP....
 

Sciz

Member
the 16 bit war is still alive and well

seems like there are still plenty of mario fans out there that HATE sonic for some reason. I see less hostility on the sonic side.

Sonic fans have had to branch out over the years to find a salve for the perennial sting of disappointment. The Mario camp just blows on their SMB3 cart some more every time they need a fix.

I think I've said this before, but I also seriously suspect that dealing with the extreme variance of Sonic games over the years has led the fanbase to develop better instincts for what constitutes good game design.

on the other hand there are still tons of SA2 fans so maybe I'm off the mark there
 

Tizoc

Member
Sonic fans have had to branch out over the years to find a salve for the perennial sting of disappointment. The Mario camp just blows on their SMB3 cart some more every time they need a fix.

I think I've said this before, but I also seriously suspect that dealing with the extreme variance of Sonic games over the years has led the fanbase to develop better instincts for what constitutes good game design.

on the other hand there are still tons of SA2 fans so maybe I'm off the mark there

SA1 and SA2 really need a remake. SA2 should be remade so you can play any character besides Eggman in the racing stages, have the digging/exploration stages be optional or another mode, and merge all the Tails and Eggman stages into one single mode where you play as Eggman blowing shit up because he wasn't given the 'Sexiest Manly Mustache award'.
 
I never thought I'd see the day when Sonic fans are considered to be the more rational ones in a Gaming-side thread. I'm being filled with...emotions. I think they're what you humans call...happiness.
 

Tizoc

Member
I never thought I'd see the day when Sonic fans are considered to be the more rational ones in a Gaming-side thread. I'm being filled with...emotions. I think they're what you humans call...happiness.

*Bro fist*

Just for you I'll toss a Chao outside an airlock
while wearing a space suit, sorry man those things are so cute
 

Sami+

Member
the 16 bit war is still alive and well

seems like there are still plenty of mario fans out there that HATE sonic for some reason. I see less hostility on the sonic side.

Honestly as I get older I feel like I'm shifting towards that "hostility" more than anything else, LOL. I'm a lot more in tune with my tastes and as a result don't enjoy Mario at all anymore, even the golden age games. Which is totally fine, it's a preference thing, but Sonic becoming seemingly more and more Mario like over the past decade is a little frustrating, I'm not gonna lie. :p
 
People seem to cloud their judgement of anything Sonic related because of the series modern reputation.

Or they are just stuck at the 16 bit wars.
 
Gotta say though, it is entertaining reading those "Sonic was never good, you guys are crazy" posts, as if they weren't the ones with the weird minority opinion.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Gotta say though, it is entertaining reading those "Sonic was never good, you guys are crazy" posts, as if they weren't the ones with the weird minority opinion.

I start to hear this more and more, though. Jeff Gerstmann of giant bomb has said it on his podcast. Mark Macdonald and John TV have said it on 8-4 Play (even though the original trilogy Sonic games were ranked high on the EGM top 100 games list that they were heavily involved with!). those voices reach a lot of people... if these experts of the games industry say so, it must be true!

I really think it's the new games painting everyone's opinions of the old games. Mario is still getting shit like Galaxy and 3D World, while Sonic gets fucking Boom. It's ridiculous.
 

Sami+

Member
Yeah, it's easy to forget that the originals were unabashed classics when the series took such a bad turn and even the "return to form" in 2009-2012 gave us two games that were really just good at best.
 
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