Cindi Mayweather
Member
If I sorta like Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 for the Sonic, Tails (Adventure 1), and Knuckles stages would I like Colors?
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Sonic the Hedgehog Community Thread |OT3 & Knuckles|
- Thread starter Professor Beef
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Nocturnowl
Member
This is exactly what I did, damn my curiosity
I did notice I could increase his height but in the position I got snagged in it didn't help.
Boy there's always something new to discover in these games even if it's an oddity like this.
Seven Force
Banned
Yeah. It's as weird as it sounds.
Kind of hard to say. Colors is an entirely different beast compared to the Adventure games.
It has more in common with Unleashed, but even then, it's less about boosting through entire stages (the game is more strict boost in Colors more than any other Sonic game) and moreso about using powerups in conjunction with a bit of precision platforming to explore levels. Your ranking is determined not by how fast you get through the level, but how skillfully you use the Wisp powers. It's also about 60-70% 2D gameplay with the occasional 3D segment, so yeah.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
That sounds fun...
Am I the only one who likes Knuckles stages in Sonic Adventure?
Am I the only one who likes Knuckles stages in Sonic Adventure?
I like them in Sonic Adventure but they botched the radar in the sequel.
And Colours is one of my favourite Sonic games.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
Maybe don't start the Archie Sonic Comic from issue #1, unless you're prepared for a huge lull starting from around issue #50 lasting all the way to #165. It was really bad for a really, really long time.
It's been rebooted a couple times in the last five years, it might be a good place to start from there. (#247 or #248 is probably an alright place to start, I guess)
It's been rebooted a couple times in the last five years, it might be a good place to start from there. (#247 or #248 is probably an alright place to start, I guess)
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Sonic Colors is only on Wii. Welp.
Thought it was ported to Steam.
Thought it was ported to Steam.
Paul_Str337
Member
Heroes, Unleashed and Colours are the only three main line Sonic games I can think of that aren't on Steam. Which is odd because there is already a PC version of Heroes kicking about. Plus Unleashed and Generations use the same, or at least a similar engine.
Mr. Smiley
Member
You can buy a copy and play it through Dolphin if you want.
idk, Studiopolis' music directly echoes it in terms of piano, voice sample usage and beat. Melody is wildly different, the style is more abrasive, and its less experimental for sure tho.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Cross post and raising flame shield:
Controversial statement:
I think Sonic Adventure is better than the Genesis Sonic's. I figured, since I've replayed the Genesis Sonic's to see how they stacked up, let's see how I like Adventure and purchased DX from Steam. Ended up playing it for an hour when I mean to go to bed.
There's just more meat to it. You've got lots of characters. You've got multiple paths in stages and it actually seems to matter because there's no tiers to make it feel like there's gaps in the design. There's trial mode which gives fun goals like "break the capsule within two minutes" or "break the capsule and have 50 rings". It's just more interesting and fun to me. The only problems I have with it are the camera and the slippery controls. I find the game more engaging. There are tremendous flaws in Genesis era Sonic design, and Adventure is coming away a lot better to me. It's not as polished, granted.
Can't wait to play more.
I recently started from #252, which is the first issue set in the new timeline, and have managed to keep track of everything so far.
It's a fun ride, though the Amy/Blaze/Cream arc in Universe has been the standout thus far.
The big adaptation screw up in SA2 was giving Amy's talk to Shadow to Chris instead, robbing her of a great character moment.
Chris deserved it, he was a fantastic addition to the series and wished he'd appear in the game
So you do like other Sonic games. Didn't you write in your Sonic 1 thread "there are only two good Sonic games" [Sonic 2, and Sonic 3 & Knuckles]?
Well, there's the excellent soniczone0.com, but it might not have all the info you seek.
Nocturnowl
Member
What are the thoughts here on Sonic 1 with spindash? does it add? detract? not really change much due to the stage design in general?
Sorta tempted by the 3DS port/overhaul since the Sonic 2 one is pretty swish.
^Zone 0 is so good, I wish all great platformers had such a solid resource on level design and other tidbits.
Sorta tempted by the 3DS port/overhaul since the Sonic 2 one is pretty swish.
^Zone 0 is so good, I wish all great platformers had such a solid resource on level design and other tidbits.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Spindash in 1 is blasphemy.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I...haven't played Adventure in years, and replaying those two games proved that I no longer thought that was true, so might as well see what I think about Adventure. I'm gong to keep going and play every "good" Sonic game* to celebrate the anniversary and see what I think about Sonic in 2016.
* - not Sonic CD tho
I think you took that post too literal. I didn't say Sonic 2 and 3K were the only Sonic games. I was asking if they were, as seen by the fanbase, forgetting that there's different people with different Sonic preferences. Since I am an old person I am far too used to the opinion that the Genesis Sonic's are the only good Sonic's. Before I replayed them that's what I thought too.
Hm, that is a bit of a lull. I don't think failing to ship an issue for three months straight did them any favors.
Depends on who you ask.
Doesn't make a huge difference. Every uphill is preceded by a downhill, and you're likely to fall off of your platform or run straight into a trap due to how densely packed the hazards are throughout much of the game. Maybe if there were more breakable walls.
I liked them in the first Adventure but in Adventure 2 the radar was botched to where you have to get one before getting the others, level design in those didn't help either.
I always had this thought that people would have liked Adventure more if it was just the Sonic, Tails and Knuckles stages. Because those are probably the best of 3D Sonic out there. While I enjoy the Sonic/Shadow levels in Adventure 2(Shadow still sucks as a character) a full game of them would have been fun but not as good.
Still not that great if so and they're still bogged down by a lot of bad decisions. But I always felt like if they kept to Sonic's Adventure gameplay style we would have gotten a truly great 3D Sonic. Too bad the disaster that is 06 happened and killed any hope for that.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Asventure style really opens the doors to possibilities. People who complained about Sonic not being about Sonic anymore got their wish and as such, the games are less diverse in play style than when Adventure dropped.
Knuckles stages are the perfect blend of exploration and platforming that made the Genesis Sonic's except in 3d.
I also like Amy stages.
Fuck people who comained about character variety in Adventure.
Knuckles stages are the perfect blend of exploration and platforming that made the Genesis Sonic's except in 3d.
I also like Amy stages.
Fuck people who comained about character variety in Adventure.
We also got significantly less buggy gameplay when they were able to narrow their focus down to just one or two styles.
I remember enjoying the game on Dreamcast in 2k. It's fun to dink around in the Sonic levels anymore, but the game is a bit of a chore to play otherwise because there isn't much going on.
I don't understand how you find Genny Sonic to be boring because you're never in danger of dying, but enjoy playing hot and cold with doo-dads in a less complex environment with even less threats. Does the variety really make up for how disposable it is? Or does its trashiness inherently give it a lower bar for standards; that is to say, SA isn't as lauded as the classics, so you've a less critical eye? In a vacuum, SA is a pretty inoffensive 3D platformer, but eesh.
I don't understand how you find Genny Sonic to be boring because you're never in danger of dying, but enjoy playing hot and cold with doo-dads in a less complex environment with even less threats. Does the variety really make up for how disposable it is? Or does its trashiness inherently give it a lower bar for standards; that is to say, SA isn't as lauded as the classics, so you've a less critical eye? In a vacuum, SA is a pretty inoffensive 3D platformer, but eesh.
Maybe they just enjoy they variety of the gamen and they dont find it disposable. Your questioning comes from a place implying everyone inherently agrees with you. And that isnt particulatly true
As far as variety in sonic, im more miffed of the lack of thematic imaginativeness if anything. As far as gameplay goes I kinda just want a 3d focused game, just let me play as other dudes. While differing gameplay is fun, I would mind for now navigational differences.
As far as variety in sonic, im more miffed of the lack of thematic imaginativeness if anything. As far as gameplay goes I kinda just want a 3d focused game, just let me play as other dudes. While differing gameplay is fun, I would mind for now navigational differences.
"Disposable" as in a lack of depth, polish, and inherent stage difficulty. I don't think too many would disagree there, unless you're a speedrunner who is memorizing every emerald spawning location or for some reason find the game challenging. Regardless of that, no, you're wrong. I'm obviously I'm coloring the lesser objective merits with the subjective word: "disposable." Said person is free to disagree, but my subjectivity doesn't diminish the substance my question is predicated upon.
In other words, I'm not asking from an unreasonable nor, more importantly, inarguable standpoint; and, I think my question serves as a reasonable and interesting inquiry of personal value. Apologies if that's obtuse or if you find the metalanguage contentious, but people don't generally trade opinions like robots, especially concerning products like games that are substantiated on personal value.
Seven Force
Banned
Been on a (Classic) Sonic kick for the last week and ended up playing through Generations again. Even on consoles, those levels are still so colorful and vibrant.
Nocturnowl
Member
Gosh darn it, I reached what I assume was the final boss of Sonic1 MS in the big ol' blimp thing and lost my last batch of lives when Robotnik must've been on the verge of defeat after the electric beam things decided to change their attack pattern without warning.
And I had all but one emerald as well, well next time it'll be a 100% run.
also MS labyrinth blows chunks, I actually don't mind MD Labyrinth but here it was pretty clear due to the style of linear levels as opposed to the layered multi paths of actual Sonic 1 they had to try and recreate the maze like feeling by giving you choices of left or right where one route inevitably leads into a dead end of rings or 1 up that you'll damn near run out of air reaching and/or leaving.
That makes two of us, funny how despite being the least appealing stage visually Crisis City is great as a stage for both classic and modern.
I think the only stage combo that matches it are the two Sky Sanctuary Zones.
Classic Sonic comes off a bit stiff though when you've been playing the actual classics alongside it.
And I had all but one emerald as well, well next time it'll be a 100% run.
also MS labyrinth blows chunks, I actually don't mind MD Labyrinth but here it was pretty clear due to the style of linear levels as opposed to the layered multi paths of actual Sonic 1 they had to try and recreate the maze like feeling by giving you choices of left or right where one route inevitably leads into a dead end of rings or 1 up that you'll damn near run out of air reaching and/or leaving.
That makes two of us, funny how despite being the least appealing stage visually Crisis City is great as a stage for both classic and modern.
I think the only stage combo that matches it are the two Sky Sanctuary Zones.
Classic Sonic comes off a bit stiff though when you've been playing the actual classics alongside it.
Agreed. Compare it to the 3DS version of gens which actually seems a little more accurate but has far worse level design.
Sky Sanctuary Classic is still a blast to play.
Seven Force
Banned
Yeah. His jump isn't as snappy as it should be either (even in comparison to Modern Sonic). Still, at least the levels are built around his physics.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Very true! But this game came out in 1999. And Sega is rolling in cash now.
Are they? I know they were able to buy up Index but is the company on a whole in a really good financial place right now?
Seven Force
Banned
While I'm not sure I'd say they're rolling in cash, they're definitely in a far better place than say, Capcom as far as Japanese developers/publishers go. Their new CEO said something about wanting to enforce more quality control for their non-mobile exploits, and cited Atlus as an example of how they wanted their console development to look like. We'll see if that pans out.
Nirolak made a pretty informative post about the state of Sega a while back. Wonder if I can find it. Long and short of it was, they're in a decent place financially, but they're being smarter (and slightly more risk averse) with what they're releasing and making sure their console games are quality efforts all around.
Nirolak made a pretty informative post about the state of Sega a while back. Wonder if I can find it. Long and short of it was, they're in a decent place financially, but they're being smarter (and slightly more risk averse) with what they're releasing and making sure their console games are quality efforts all around.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Sega did not buy Index.
Sega Sammy bought Index.
Sega Sammy is not Sega. Sega is a subsidiary of Sega Sammy.
And Total War games are popular as fuck.
You can see where the confusion stems from though, right?
Is it better to say that Sega-Sammy is in a good financial place right now, or are parent company and subsidiary separate entities when it comes to finances?
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I understand the confusion. Was just clarifying.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
In Sonic Adventure the stakes are higher. You have to go fast and if you don't hit your jump exactly you can land out of bounds and lose a life. I've lost more lives trying to beat Emerald Coast in 2 minutes than I did all of the Genesis games in my past run.
What is complex about the Genesis Sonic's beyond the physics, and even those are simple to wrap your head around? They're just large levels where things connect. One thing I love about Sonic Adventure is finding shortcuts and different ways to get through a level. For example, on Emerald Coast, on the bridge before the springs right at the beginning, you can spin dash, and jump on the bridge on top of the springs and ignore the spring area entirely. You can cut around and make your own short cut that isn't pre-made. It makes for interesting design and allows for more diverse play styles.
Example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPsamG9ALNQ
vs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1ygrgWKzA4
Notice how the two of them play. I find this level more interesting than all of the first levels in the Genesis Sonic's put together.
Sonic Adventure is also clear on what's what.
Let's take Scrap Brain Zone. You start the level out with the collapsing platform bridge. It results in a death if you fall in that bridge. But later on, you'll find bridges that don't result in your death. The game breaks its own rules. One of the cornerstone of tight level design in a 2d game is consistency: teaching through example. I.E. "I now know to avoid those bridges because I will die." Now, you go and put entire sections below the collapsing bridges, you have broken your own rule and logic. Another flaw with Genesis era Sonic's is that due to the open-ended levels, you never know what is a pit that will result in death. Only memorization solves that, but just because memorizing which jumps and places don't result in death doesn't make it good level design. It becomes a guessing game for a new player. I'm no new player, but that doesn't make it a good design decision from my view either. Being in the third dimension solves this and there is no longer an inconsistency in the game logic.
As for Knuckles stages, their use of 3d space and hidden hijinks makes them fun for me. What is open about Genesis levels exactly? They just feel open to be open and large to be large, but Knuckles stages in Sonic Adventure uses its openness to its advantage to mix platforming with meaningful exploration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQXFk8-GyNg
And I happen to find it fun.
Shadoken
Member
I think you might be wrong on this. Sega bought Index , not the parent company. There was a graph somewhere on which company is under who. And am sure I saw Atlus was under Sega. Maybe Sega Sammy bought Index and moved Atlus under the Sega label.
TheDinoman
Member
The spindash in Sonic Adventure is so hilariously overpowered lol. In the original games, charging it up was like pulling back a slingshot. In Adventure it's basically like firing a machine gun.
lol, You don't have to break down the level design for me. I wasn't expecting you to do that, sorry. I've been playing since '99. I've beaten Sonic's story like 15 times at the very least and know most of the shortcuts and secrets.
The bridge thing at the beginning is pretty much what I'm talking about primarily when I talk about experimenting with the physics in classic Sonic and finding new things to do, but in 3D. And it's only one of two big ways to use your spin-dash physics to dink around in Emerald Coast for benefit (aside from mashing it as a pseudo-boost). Speed Highway, Ice Cap, Twinkle Park, Sky Deck, Final Egg, and Red Mountain also have a lot of play to them. There's even an easter egg for fighting the camera and exploring Final Egg. That's why Sonic Adventure 1 is generally preferred to the other 3D Sonic games before Generations by classic fans: due to it being the closest to classic Sonic gameplay even though far more limited in scope.
There are like four or more shortcuts in Chemical Plant Zone alone. You can use your momentum to jump from the bottom path to the middle path at the end of Act 1 in a way you weren't pre-ordained to. You can even use the spin-dash to launch yourself out of the water instead of doing the moving-block platforming at the end of Act 2. Check out this skip in the beginning and near-end. These kinds of things are in most levels. Emerald Hill can be bounce skipped. You can even do micro-skips on the loops. Check out this bubble shield usage. All of these are harder (the bubble shield only marginally) to do than the skips in Emerald Coast. They were also less obvious. A lot of experimenting had to be done. I could really go on and on and show you more and more. But those are just shortcuts. You can apply these principles if you aren't speedrunning to just exploring a level and tinkering with things.
I understand your qualms with Sonic 1. I complain about them too. But you also had problems with 2 and 3 from a mere entertainment standpoint.
Another thing you can do instead of taking the springs after the whale in SA is spindash and run up the side of the rock formation the springs are on, but it's a bit finicky and provides no benefit to the player. But it's fun to do.
It's great that you found a Sonic game you like though. Congrats! Many people seem to lament the automation, the incurred glitchy hell punishment that is trying to break automation, and the bottomless pit syndrome. I've always kind of enjoyed SA1. It's got great music and Sonic is fun to tinker with. As a kid in '99, watching Sonic run from the whale at the demo kiosk, it was total jaw dropping awe.
The bridge thing at the beginning is pretty much what I'm talking about primarily when I talk about experimenting with the physics in classic Sonic and finding new things to do, but in 3D. And it's only one of two big ways to use your spin-dash physics to dink around in Emerald Coast for benefit (aside from mashing it as a pseudo-boost). Speed Highway, Ice Cap, Twinkle Park, Sky Deck, Final Egg, and Red Mountain also have a lot of play to them. There's even an easter egg for fighting the camera and exploring Final Egg. That's why Sonic Adventure 1 is generally preferred to the other 3D Sonic games before Generations by classic fans: due to it being the closest to classic Sonic gameplay even though far more limited in scope.
There are like four or more shortcuts in Chemical Plant Zone alone. You can use your momentum to jump from the bottom path to the middle path at the end of Act 1 in a way you weren't pre-ordained to. You can even use the spin-dash to launch yourself out of the water instead of doing the moving-block platforming at the end of Act 2. Check out this skip in the beginning and near-end. These kinds of things are in most levels. Emerald Hill can be bounce skipped. You can even do micro-skips on the loops. Check out this bubble shield usage. All of these are harder (the bubble shield only marginally) to do than the skips in Emerald Coast. They were also less obvious. A lot of experimenting had to be done. I could really go on and on and show you more and more. But those are just shortcuts. You can apply these principles if you aren't speedrunning to just exploring a level and tinkering with things.
I understand your qualms with Sonic 1. I complain about them too. But you also had problems with 2 and 3 from a mere entertainment standpoint.
Another thing you can do instead of taking the springs after the whale in SA is spindash and run up the side of the rock formation the springs are on, but it's a bit finicky and provides no benefit to the player. But it's fun to do.
It's great that you found a Sonic game you like though. Congrats! Many people seem to lament the automation, the incurred glitchy hell punishment that is trying to break automation, and the bottomless pit syndrome. I've always kind of enjoyed SA1. It's got great music and Sonic is fun to tinker with. As a kid in '99, watching Sonic run from the whale at the demo kiosk, it was total jaw dropping awe.