ViewtifulJC
Banned
I think Sonic games are always destined to be shorted than most like. Imagine having to make all those art assets just for people to speed by the whole thing in five minutes.
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Sonic the Hedgehog Community Thread |OT3 & Knuckles|
- Thread starter Professor Beef
- Start date
I think listing SA2 and 06 is counterproductive to your point, but I see what you're getting at.
I think it'll be fine. What really hurt this game imo is that they used in-engine cutscene footage and not actual gameplay. We've been waiting for years to see wtf this game is and we barely have a better idea than before.
The problem is that modern sonic is also partially 2D.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Even in 2D, there's enough of a difference between Modern and Classic.
Besides, it's best to be as consistent as possible. If Modern Sonic turns out to be entirely 3D, and it's plagued by the same issues as SA1, SA2, '06, etc etc etc, then effectively half the game is going to be problematic.
Sonic Team made a point of mentioning Colors and Generations in the Project trailer. I expect this game to follow in those foot-steps.
I don't really understand why boost was introduced in the first place.
Seven Force brought up a good point in the announcement thread that the Sonic Adventures having a shitton of boost pads amounted to the same thing.
If they have a couple of well-placed pads in each 3D stage, you can get that same sense of breakneck speed w/o having to hold down the X button for the majority of the stage.
Seven Force brought up a good point in the announcement thread that the Sonic Adventures having a shitton of boost pads amounted to the same thing.
If they have a couple of well-placed pads in each 3D stage, you can get that same sense of breakneck speed w/o having to hold down the X button for the majority of the stage.
Boost pads work independently of whether or not the player is even paying attention to the game, while The Boost is a limited effect that requires constant player engagement to maintain, much like Super Sonic in the classic games, and puts more control in the player's hands.
Really? You want more automation? And I suppose you'd request the same from (car) racing games, because they require you to hold down the R-trigger for the majority of each stage?
I suggest you watch BlazeHedgehog's video he linked on the previous page. It raises some very good points, and explains why the boost was introduced.
Mr. Smiley
Member
I've been convinced Uekawa can make anything Sonic look good since the Werehog.
I just feel like boosting puts the game on cruise control as well. Even though you have to hold down a button, you're still surrendering a degree of control to the game since Sonic barrels through things. There's often no point in jumping over obstacles since his boosts breaks through em.
Look at those long stretches of paths in Unleashed or Generations where you're holding down boost for minutes at a time, only using the quickstep buttons to dodge things. It felt very brain dead at times.
I admittedly don't have the answers on how best 3D Sonic works, but I lean on the side of smart use of boost pads rather than explicit boosting. Or at least make building boost meter harder.
I disagree. It's essentially a gas pedal, and actually shares some similarities with the spin dash.
What degree of control are you surrendering, exactly? The huge difference is that it's the player's choice to press the boost button. Boost pads leave you no choice, they force you.
Anyway, there have always been sequences in Sonic games where the player virtually loses control, e.g. those S-shaped tunnels in Green Hill Zone.
That's indeed a problem. There are passages where you need to jump (or do the quick hop to not lose speed) over ledges on the ground, slide underneath things, or use quickstep to avoid spikes/mines. But generally, the boost is a bit too powerful in its ability to plow through enemies, maybe that should be nerfed (Blaze makes that point in his video).
That sounds like an exaggeration to me. The last stretch of Rooftop Run, for example, takes about a minute, not minutes. But yeah, it is a bit simplistic - perhaps in favor of players with less skill. Compare that to this optional level, where a lot more obstacles are thrown at the player, and which kept my brain at least busy enough.
I don't have all the answers either, but I feel strongly that less automation and therefore fewer boost pads is the way to go. I don't want boost pads to push Sonic through a loop just for the sake of spectacle. I want to bring Sonic up to the necessary speed myself - even if that is as simple as pressing and holding a single button.
Solid SOAP
Member
I think that until we get more footage, all we really can say about this new game is that it looks dark because that's all they have shown to us. I'm sure that not every level is going to be a dour dilapidated city, but they wouldn't haven chosen to make their debut of this game the way they did if it didn't set the stage for the tone of the final product, ya know?
We can't say for sure what the final product will be like, but until we see more, the game looks pretty damn dark for a game starring a character that resembles Mickey Mouse.
Seven Force
Banned
Played through the Taxman 1, 2 & CD ports and Sonic 3 Complete all one after the other.
Quick thoughts:
- I forgot how much time the Labyrinth Act 1 shortcut saves. Holy shit.
- Metropolis Zone isn't as bad as I remember. Game still takes something of a nosedive around that part.
- I forgot Sonic 2 Mobile's Good Ending had that Sonic 3 & K tease.
- Fuck Wacky Workbench
- Goddamn, the Insta-Shield is so good once you get a handle on it
- The 1/2/CD spriteset is so much better than the one for 3&K.
- Real talk, fuck Wacky Workbench
- Sandopolis Act 2 is underrated. I love how the tension works in conjunction with the level design in that it almost expects you to panic and fuck up
- The Lava Reef -> Doomsday Zone stretch is still the best part of the game and arguably the highlight of the entire series
Now to spend all week doing this shit as Tails.
Quick thoughts:
- I forgot how much time the Labyrinth Act 1 shortcut saves. Holy shit.
- Metropolis Zone isn't as bad as I remember. Game still takes something of a nosedive around that part.
- I forgot Sonic 2 Mobile's Good Ending had that Sonic 3 & K tease.
- Fuck Wacky Workbench
- Goddamn, the Insta-Shield is so good once you get a handle on it
- The 1/2/CD spriteset is so much better than the one for 3&K.
- Real talk, fuck Wacky Workbench
- Sandopolis Act 2 is underrated. I love how the tension works in conjunction with the level design in that it almost expects you to panic and fuck up
- The Lava Reef -> Doomsday Zone stretch is still the best part of the game and arguably the highlight of the entire series
Now to spend all week doing this shit as Tails.
people in the sonic mania thread were suggesting wacky workbench should be in mania and i was having fuckin' nam flashbacks man
The Xtortionist
Member
Let's be real here
Stardust Speedway is the only Sonic CD stage that realistically has a chance, right
Stardust Speedway is the only Sonic CD stage that realistically has a chance, right
Professor Beef
Banned
I'm pretty sure that the people who reminisce about Wacky Workbench are either actually insane or have only played the game once, back when it released.
Stardust Speedway's definitely the obvious choice, though I'd personally love to see Quartz Quadrant. The original level design was a little barren and straightforward, but I always liked the aesthetic and music, so I'd be interested to see what Mania could do with it.
The bolded is one of my favorite CD stages, so that or Stardust Speedway are the ones I hope make it into Mania
.Probably.
but it's such a dull series of tubes and awkward plane switching panels with nothing else going for it but the music and the race and and and /whine
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Tizoc
Member
Remind me of the Labyrinth shortcut please?
The bolded part surprised me a bit. Can you name some reasons or even show some examples of why you feel it's worse perhaps? Is it Sonic's design itself, the enemies, or even the level art that bothers you? Or all three?
I always thought S3&K's sprites were considered to be the pinnacle of the 2D series, but I could be wrong. I think I might like them the best, but then again it's been a while since I sat down and played them all (*cough* because of no PS4/WiiU versions *cough*).
Hmm, I suppose.
I guess we'll see how they handle it. They should get Ian Flynn on board.
So I felt under Sonic Mania's announcement hype and started playing Sonic Generations from my PS3 backlog, I'm really enjoying the classic Sonic segments but is there something wrong with the controls for the modern 3D Sonic segments? I mean, the movement feels clunky and not precise at all with the analog and there's a slight delay when you land from a jump and needs to jump again immediately, is this a common issue or is it just me? This is leading me to some frustrating moments...
Just bought the Sonic Ultimate Genesis Collection for PS3 too and I'm waiting for shipment, maybe I'm gonna bite on Sonic CD on the PSN too, dunno about it but my favorite Sonic Game is Sonic Advance 2 on GBA, that was the one I enjoyed the most.
Just bought the Sonic Ultimate Genesis Collection for PS3 too and I'm waiting for shipment, maybe I'm gonna bite on Sonic CD on the PSN too, dunno about it but my favorite Sonic Game is Sonic Advance 2 on GBA, that was the one I enjoyed the most.
sonic looks like a derp in 3
he looks like a cool mother fucker in 1, 2, CD and now Mania.
Professor Beef
Banned
I didn't mind Sonic's look in 3K. But then again I'm currently using the 1/2 sprite in my 3K Complete playthrough...
see everyone, even the chao beater has some sense.
So I noticed that Sonic Generations is on sale on the 3DS eshop. Is that worth the 12 bucks?
Probably gonna get Triple Trouble at least, and recently I got the 360 version of Sonic CD (Game was funner than I remember, though I wouldn't put it on the level of Sonic 2 or 3K)
Probably gonna get Triple Trouble at least, and recently I got the 360 version of Sonic CD (Game was funner than I remember, though I wouldn't put it on the level of Sonic 2 or 3K)
Supaidaman
Member
It's a very mediocre game imo. Nothing special about it.
It feels fine on PC, but then it also runs at 60 fps on PC, where the consoles were both 30.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
From personal experience, the 360 version of Unleashed and Generations did drop inputs for me from time to time. I think it's a framerate lag thing, because it seemed way more likely to drop inputs any time the framerate hitched up (and I think it happens more in Gens than Unleashed).
On the PC, at 60fps, that's never been an issue.
just stumbled upon this sick sonic adventure 2 world record speed run
gotta go fuckin faaaaaaaaaassssssttttttt
gotta go fuckin faaaaaaaaaassssssttttttt
Wrote a big ol' thing about the stream and Sonic '17 on SSMB, figured I'd share here too-
So after thinking about it and reflecting after a few days now that the dust has settled, I think the whole stream was mismanaged and while a product of good intentions, failed to deliver on expectations.
That teaser is not a good payoff for an entire year of cryptic teases and buildup of expectations, to say nothing of the two (three?) hour nightmare stream we had to endure to get there. It's a bad look and although I can't speak on how fun the event was for fans that actually went, I do have the right to speak about the quality of the stream. It was embarrassing and some things are generally baffling but before I get to that I want to call out the technical difficulties again - I genuinely hope somebody got fired last Friday because the shit they put up on Twitch and YouTube was unacceptable.
- 45 minutes late.
- Buuuuuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
- The audio cut out during announcements. It's been three days and I still don't think anyone other than the people who went has a clue what the Madeon thing was about.
- Nobody in the world wants to tune in on a Friday night to see a live streamed Hyper Potions concert featuring a guy in a Sonic suit awkwardly dancing for an hour. Also the audio kept cutting out.
- Sonic Mania looks amazing, great trailer, really cool seeing Christian up on stage talking about it. Good job.
- buzz buzz buzz
The technical quality of the stream not only made it embarrassing to watch, but it reflects horridly on SEGA as a whole as well as the Sonic brand. I stand by what I said - I hope whoever was responsible got fired and this never happens again.
Technical issues aside the stream schedule is perplexing to me. Who approved this? SEGA's marketing team knew why anyone would want to tune in to this because they kept teasing it all god damn year. "6/22 all will be revealed" or whatever. Doing cute shit with hints and teases that all led to this particular day. All of it revolving around a new game because they're not morons - they know what we want to see, and we know they know that because that was the aspect of the show they talked about to get us to want to watch. So bearing that in mind I think it's absurd that to get to the content that SEGA was aware everyone (fans and non-fans alike) tuned in for, "discussing the future of Sonic", we were expected to sit through an hour long Hyper Potions concert, an hour and ten minute long Crush 40 concert, a costume contest (holy mary mother of god are you fucking kidding me), and whatever other garbage was in the way of the Project Sonic 2017 trailer. I don't remember the rest of the schedule exactly because once I realized there was still another 25 minutes left of Crush 40 and about two hours before the "???" on the schedule, I closed the stream that I'd been hyped up for since it was announced to go to a party I'd previously turned down so that I could watch the stream with my closest friends.
What really kills me is at the end of it all, the game that was supposed to make all these months of waiting and that three hours of unadulterated trash on Twitch (other than Mania and LEGO which were dope) worth it was a two minute teaser trailer that told us exactly this about this game we've been dying to know about for three entire years:
- It's by the team we already knew it was by
- Dark tone
- Classic Sonic is in it
- It's got really nice graphics
I'm excited for this game. The style of the teaser implies to me that it's going for a story focus with a tone reminiscent of Sonic Adventure, and that's inherently very exciting to me. The visual design of the environment is very nice and right up my alley. But no, that trailer is not only a bad trailer with bland, boring music, an overly serious and dramatic tone that doesn't do much to convey what the plot of the game even is, no gameplay, and after countless teases and months of waiting... no title? Surely this is a joke?
I'm sorry that my tone is so frustrated here, I didn't mean to write it that way at first but after I started recapping the event in my head I got genuinely upset about it. Absolutely terrible management and I expect better from SEGA of America. I really do.
At the end of the day, Mania looks like a genuinely excellent game though and I'm happy to see non-fans on NeoGAF and Twitter getting jazzed about Sonic again, and Sonic '17 looks interesting. So there's positivity to be had. I just wish it didn't come in the package it did.
So after thinking about it and reflecting after a few days now that the dust has settled, I think the whole stream was mismanaged and while a product of good intentions, failed to deliver on expectations.
That teaser is not a good payoff for an entire year of cryptic teases and buildup of expectations, to say nothing of the two (three?) hour nightmare stream we had to endure to get there. It's a bad look and although I can't speak on how fun the event was for fans that actually went, I do have the right to speak about the quality of the stream. It was embarrassing and some things are generally baffling but before I get to that I want to call out the technical difficulties again - I genuinely hope somebody got fired last Friday because the shit they put up on Twitch and YouTube was unacceptable.
- 45 minutes late.
- Buuuuuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
- The audio cut out during announcements. It's been three days and I still don't think anyone other than the people who went has a clue what the Madeon thing was about.
- Nobody in the world wants to tune in on a Friday night to see a live streamed Hyper Potions concert featuring a guy in a Sonic suit awkwardly dancing for an hour. Also the audio kept cutting out.
- Sonic Mania looks amazing, great trailer, really cool seeing Christian up on stage talking about it. Good job.
- buzz buzz buzz
The technical quality of the stream not only made it embarrassing to watch, but it reflects horridly on SEGA as a whole as well as the Sonic brand. I stand by what I said - I hope whoever was responsible got fired and this never happens again.
Technical issues aside the stream schedule is perplexing to me. Who approved this? SEGA's marketing team knew why anyone would want to tune in to this because they kept teasing it all god damn year. "6/22 all will be revealed" or whatever. Doing cute shit with hints and teases that all led to this particular day. All of it revolving around a new game because they're not morons - they know what we want to see, and we know they know that because that was the aspect of the show they talked about to get us to want to watch. So bearing that in mind I think it's absurd that to get to the content that SEGA was aware everyone (fans and non-fans alike) tuned in for, "discussing the future of Sonic", we were expected to sit through an hour long Hyper Potions concert, an hour and ten minute long Crush 40 concert, a costume contest (holy mary mother of god are you fucking kidding me), and whatever other garbage was in the way of the Project Sonic 2017 trailer. I don't remember the rest of the schedule exactly because once I realized there was still another 25 minutes left of Crush 40 and about two hours before the "???" on the schedule, I closed the stream that I'd been hyped up for since it was announced to go to a party I'd previously turned down so that I could watch the stream with my closest friends.
What really kills me is at the end of it all, the game that was supposed to make all these months of waiting and that three hours of unadulterated trash on Twitch (other than Mania and LEGO which were dope) worth it was a two minute teaser trailer that told us exactly this about this game we've been dying to know about for three entire years:
- It's by the team we already knew it was by
- Dark tone
- Classic Sonic is in it
- It's got really nice graphics
I'm excited for this game. The style of the teaser implies to me that it's going for a story focus with a tone reminiscent of Sonic Adventure, and that's inherently very exciting to me. The visual design of the environment is very nice and right up my alley. But no, that trailer is not only a bad trailer with bland, boring music, an overly serious and dramatic tone that doesn't do much to convey what the plot of the game even is, no gameplay, and after countless teases and months of waiting... no title? Surely this is a joke?
I'm sorry that my tone is so frustrated here, I didn't mean to write it that way at first but after I started recapping the event in my head I got genuinely upset about it. Absolutely terrible management and I expect better from SEGA of America. I really do.
At the end of the day, Mania looks like a genuinely excellent game though and I'm happy to see non-fans on NeoGAF and Twitter getting jazzed about Sonic again, and Sonic '17 looks interesting. So there's positivity to be had. I just wish it didn't come in the package it did.
Seven Force
Banned
I was always of the opinion that CD had the best sprites, if only for how many more unique animations there are, and how fluidly they animate. On top of that, I think they (along with the S1/2 variations) convey a bit more expression than the S3 sprites do.
As for the level art, I don't hate 3'&Ks (I actually love how it changes between each act of any given zone, some subtly, some more overt) at all, but there was a level of relative minimalism going on in a lot of 1 & 2's (but mostly 1's) level art that I really dug. S3&K nails the details, but the earlier games make more out of less. Take the background of Scrap Brain Act 1, for example:
There's actually not much going on here in terms of complexity, but the level artist made masterful use of the general silhouette of various shapes and used it to create this imposing, oppressive backdrop.
Don't get me wrong, I think S3&K is the best game in the series, but I've always believed that 1/2/CD trump it in terms of aesthetic.
Definitely an issue in the PS3 version of Generations. Not a game-breaking one, but one that's immediately apparent. (This is an issue with a few multiplats on PS3, though; Mostly with fighting games and games that rely on quick, twitch based inputs)
It's present in the 360 versions, but to a far lesser degree (Pretty much when the framerate itself takes a dip, as Blaze mentioned earlier.)
This is incredible
was on the tip of my tounge
hmm, a thought
what the hell does genndy sonic even look like?
I was always of the opinion that CD had the best sprites, if only for how many more unique animations there are, and how fluidly they animate. On top of that, I think they (along with the S1/2 variations) convey a bit more expression than the S3 sprites do.
As for the level art, I don't hate 3'&Ks (I actually love how it changes between each act of any given zone, some subtly, some more overt) at all, but there was a level of relative minimalism going on in a lot of 1 & 2's (but mostly 1's) level art that I really dug. S3&K nails the details, but the earlier games make more out of less. Take the background of Scrap Brain Act 1, for example:
There's actually not much going on here in terms of complexity, but the level artist made masterful use of the general silhouette of various shapes and used it to create this imposing, oppressive backdrop.
Don't get me wrong, I think S3&K is the best game in the series, but I've always believed that 1/2/CD trump it in terms of aesthetic.
Definitely an issue in the PS3 version of Generations. Not a game-breaking one, but one that's immediately apparent. (This is an issue with a few multiplats on PS3, though; Mostly with fighting games and games that rely on quick, twitch based inputs)
It's present in the 360 versions, but to a far lesser degree (Pretty much when the framerate itself takes a dip, as Blaze mentioned earlier.)
Cheers for the explanation.
I'm not sure where I stand myself as someone who only really played 1 back in the day and then played 2, 3&K and CD much later and right after each other on compilations and such. I guess I've always liked his 3 sprite the best - even though I'm perfectly fine with his older one as well - while in terms of levels I go back and forth. I agree that there is something to be said about the simplicity found in 1 and CD while there is also something to be said for 3&K's organic level transitions and environmental storytelling via effective use of the backgrounds (the whole Death Egg arc for instance).
Sonic CD I've always had difficulty appreciating though when it comes to the levels. While I like the backgrounds (which to me are almost unparalled in Sonic games as a whole by the way) I've always felt that all the foreground objects make the screen look very cluttered. This is in part because of the time travel mechanic and the fact that there are three versions of levels of course, but still. There's just something that looks a bit unfinished / unpolished or even like a fan hack to me I guess. I really should give that game another shot though, maybe via the Taxman version.
Tizoc
Member
Somebody's gonna have to explain to me this whole 'Sonic games' screens are narrow' or the whole 'you can't see what's coming at you in 2D Sonic games'
because I have never experienced this issue.
Granted I've memorized much of the games even if I hadn't played them in years but even still, if I were to look at the Badniks of say the first...5-6 stages of Sonic 2, only a handful at the most, are enemies that are grounded.
...and even then I can notice them just in time to jump and avoid them.
Do people have eye problems or do they have trash reaction time?
Heck Sonic 3's Rhino Badnik is so easy to jump over, he may as well be a harmless boulder/rock that Sonic and co. can break through for a secret path.
because I have never experienced this issue.
Granted I've memorized much of the games even if I hadn't played them in years but even still, if I were to look at the Badniks of say the first...5-6 stages of Sonic 2, only a handful at the most, are enemies that are grounded.
...and even then I can notice them just in time to jump and avoid them.
Do people have eye problems or do they have trash reaction time?
Heck Sonic 3's Rhino Badnik is so easy to jump over, he may as well be a harmless boulder/rock that Sonic and co. can break through for a secret path.
Paul_Str337
Member
I don't get it either but I always just assumed it's a symptom of having played Mario and getting used to the relatively sedate pace of those games. There are few things more infuriating to me than watching someone play Sonic poorly. Some of the videos for Mania have been pain inducing watching people blindly saunter into spikes, badniks and any other variety of obstacle.
Mr. Smiley
Member
Decided to give Sonic Boom show a try. The show isn't heavy on the overarching storylines yet right? If so, what's good episode to start on?
I don't know if it ever will have overarching storylines, tbh. You can pick pretty much any episode and it'll be standalone comedic goofing off or something.