So in the Sonic 3 anniversary thread I called the minor boss theme a top 10 Sonic boss theme. But then I thought, "Wait, what would be the other 9?" And I figured, why not ask SonicGAF the same thing?
So SonicGAF, what are your Top 10 Sonic Boss Themes? My thought was that whoever wants to can pick their 10 favorite boss songs from any Sonic game with a boss (and explain their selections or ranking, obviously).
- Act/phase differences could count as different songs (for example, the "Pinch" versions from the GBA/DS games)
- Remixes count (Generations remixes for example)
- Vocal themes could count; you could judge them on the context of a boss fight (as opposed to a general theme for the game, like Live & Learn or Open Your Heart)
- If you want, up to 5 (or just 3?) honorable mentions
How does that sound? I'd have had my list ready to start, but since I opened this crazy can of worms it's been a serious undertaking; as you all likely know, this franchise has a ton of kickass music.
So in the Sonic 3 anniversary thread I called the minor boss theme a top 10 Sonic boss theme. But then I thought, "Wait, what would be the other 9?" And I figured, why not ask SonicGAF the same thing?
So SonicGAF, what are your Top 10 Sonic Boss Themes? My thought was that whoever wants to can pick their 10 favorite boss songs from any Sonic game with a boss (and explain their selections or ranking, obviously).
- Act/phase differences could count as different songs (for example, the "Pinch" versions from the GBA/DS games)
- Remixes count (Generations remixes for example)
- Vocal themes could count; you could judge them on the context of a boss fight (as opposed to a general theme for the game, like Live & Learn or Open Your Heart)
- If you want, up to 5 (or just 3?) honorable mentions
How does that sound? I'd have had my list ready to start, but since I opened this crazy can of worms it's been a serious undertaking; as you all likely know, this franchise has a ton of kickass music.
ohhhhh that's a tough one. I know my #1, but the rest of the top 10 would take me some thinking.
I just beat Secret Rings. But I'm one world ring away from fighting the sonic sprite recolor, so I might as well go through with that before posting my thoughts.
edit: WOAH, I become the bad sonic sprite recolor? wow. what was wrong with super sonic? lol
Sonic 3 Final Boss takes top billing, no questions asked, but nine other good ones include, in no particular order:
Sonic 3D (Saturn). I just love the strings and piano in this one. Also like the laughter present, which CD (US) had as well, except that song was largely ambient in nature, whereas this one has a clear, hummable melody being played by some kind of orchestra (synth, obviously, but convincing all the same).
Sonic CD (JPN soundtrack). "Work that sucker to death" might be a bit extreme and/or esoteric for a Sonic game, but it works. It's one of the more surreal boss themes for the series, sounding more like something fit for a dance floor (of EVIL!) than a boss fight, but CD is a fairly surreal game all-around, so it doesn't feel out of place even still. Plus, well, the boss fights themselves are pretty goofy (like fighting Eggman on a pinball table, or wearing his machine out via friction and conveyor belts), so...
Sonic 3&K Act 2 boss. Perfectly militant theme for the bosses where Eggman himself steps in, contrasted quite nicely with either variant of the Act 1, which is either faster-pasted (S&K) or oddly upbeat and funky (S3).
"Egg Cerberus/Egg-Genesis" from 2K6 - it's one of the songs that immediately come to mind when I think of the game's soundtrack, and honestly would work great in an Unreal Tournament map. Plus, it integrates Eggman's leitmotif du jour (and, really, Eggman's leitmotif overall at this point, given it was used in Unleashed and Colors since - maybe Lost World too, I forget) quite well, which is a plus, since I like that leitmotif.
"Militant Missionary". I just love the orchestral angle taken here, with the violin playing a somewhat somber lead while the brass backing slowly ramps the pressure up just before releasing it all for the song's loop. In addition, since I got stuck on Egg Viper the first time I fought him, I had plenty of time to absorb the whole track. (Like... an hour's worth. God damn did Egg Viper give me troubles.)
"Child's Song" - a delightfully macabre circus tune for a merry-go-round boss. Chaotix may not be a good game, but it has its moments - awesome special stages, little pixel-shattering or sprite-rotating effects in-game, and then some decent boss fights to round it all out, with each boss having its own theme - something that wouldn't be standard in the series until Adventure or so.
"Nonaggression (Extra Boss)" from Advance 3 sounds wonderfully alien. IIRC it's a remix of Emerl's theme, but I didn't play Battle and only barely glanced at its soundtrack to verify this was, in fact, true (it is true, more or less - although the tone's quite different).
"Time Eater (Modern)" - because screw popular opinion, I love this piece. I really like it when Richard Jacques breaks out the choirs (the two "RustyRuins" tracks are some of my favorite Sonic music ever, period), and he meshes it with the distorted guitar lead fairly well, too. Shame the boss fight it's associated with was utter pants, looked too damn much like a homing shot, and finished up with Sonic 4 music of all things.
Sonic 2 - because popular opinion just put a gun to my head after that last track, and demanded I include what's probably the most popular Eggman theme ever made. I do genuinely like it, though, even if I think 3&K's theme is better.
I'm sure I left out good tracks, but really, limiting myself to ten is hard.
Non sequitur, but I love how Google's top autocomplete for "That looks like" is "a homing shot".
So in the Sonic 3 anniversary thread I called the minor boss theme a top 10 Sonic boss theme. But then I thought, "Wait, what would be the other 9?" And I figured, why not ask SonicGAF the same thing?
So SonicGAF, what are your Top 10 Sonic Boss Themes?
It's so hard to make a definitive top 10, but I made my own list trying to pick 10 good ones including some that aren't that common and aren't fully obvious instead.
Heavy Dog (Shadow The Hedgehog): Took the first boss theme in Adventure 2 to a whole 'nother level, edgier and hedgier. This is the original pretty much perfected.
Babylon Guardian (Sonic Riders): This song not only works as a boss theme, but fits extremely well in the stage you unlock afterwards, digital dimension. Heaven or hell? Let's rock!
Boss (Sonic The Hedgehog 2 MASTER SYSTEM): This one still gives me goosebumps. It sounds so good with headphones, and has an echoing effect I didn't expect of the hardware. Kudos to whomever made this amazing piece, but damn whoever decided to keep it only on the MS; to think I could have listened to this to begin with.
EDIT: Ah, sorry Sciz, was writing since before you posted, my bad.
[*]Boss (Sonic The Hedgehog 2 MASTER SYSTEM): This one still gives me goosebumps. It sounds so good with headphones, and has an echoing effect I didn't expect of the hardware. Kudos to whomever made this amazing piece, but damn whoever decided to keep it only on the MS; to think I could have listened to this to begin with.
Well, near the end it seemed impossible*, but after some light research, some soul searching, and consulting a priest, I finally got my list.
1. Final Boss - Sonic 3&K
What can I say? It really can't be beat. It's menacing, it's deranged; it's a freaking classic. 2. Egg Dragoon - Unleashed
This boss is probably one of Eggman's most dangerous penultimate "fuck you" moments. The intensity of the song goes hand in hand with the drama of the fight as you punch, kick, and rip the shit out of this hella weaponized mech while you both plummet to the center of the earth. 3. Perfect Dark Gaia - Unleashed
Of all the orchestral versions of main themes, this one is certainly the best, as it has the best base to work from (Endless Possibilities). 4. Minor Boss - Sonic 3
I was worried that when I actually had to rank these, this theme wouldn't make the Top 10. But it totally did. It's just too damn dope. 5. Nonaggression - Advance 3
It's Emerl's theme turned into an alien-sounding, "I don't wanna do this, but I will if I have to" struggle. I had a lot to say about this song that had nothing to do with the song itself and everything to do with the scenario around it and my immense nostalgia for Advance 3 and Battle, but suffice it to say, I like this song a lot and it makes me feel. (A statement that general pretty much applies to all of Battle and Adv3 ) 6. Supporting Me - Adventure 2
This was almost For True Story, but in the end Supporting Me won out by virtue of being much smoother, and a more interesting "flavor" for a boss fight. 7. With Me - Black Knight
This song is pretty hype, and I'm not just saying that because it was in yesterday's VGCW season finale. 8. Final Battle - Sonic Battle
This one is interesting, because the first time you hear it, you're fighting Eggman with his cheap moves in his Egg Mobile getting your ass handed to you. The second time you hear it, poor ol Emerl has become too 1337 to live, and it's up to Sonic to put him down before he blows everything the fuck up. And you get your ass handed to you again. Point being, the same song (specifically, the second half) gives a bit of a different feeling in each of these situations, but the constant is that you're probably getting your ass handed to you. On a related note, Battle's ending is such a fucking downer. :c 9. I Am / Devil Doom - Shadow the Hedgehog
This dark, edgy theme is a great fit for the final boss of this game. The big bad is bigger, badder, and uglier; the sky is dark and red while chaos and destruction reign on the earth below; and Shadow is damn well ready to end this shit. The truth has been revealed, and with his memories back and new knowledge gained, Shadow makes his declaration to Devil Doom, the Black Arms, his comrades, and the world: "I am all... of me."
The world then collectively responds, "What?"
10. Dark Gaia - Unleashed
Last minute change, literally just happened. I was trying not to give Unleashed 3 spots on this list, but I said "fuck it." I really like this song. Sounds pretty good for a Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robot fight, but the part that really makes this great is the Sonic part. The Gaia Golem is in Dark Gaia's grasps, and it's up to Sonic to quickly create some distance. The song gets more urgent, and continues to ramp up as Sonic makes a mad dash down the precariously placed temples forming the arms of the golem, towards the gigantic beast clawing and gnawing away at his weirdly groaning friend, crescendoing until it begins another, faster build up, nearly becoming a new form of drowning when, finally, the player reaches the ramp... and fucks up the QTE and dies.
Honorable Mentions
*...and it kinda was impossible, because here I have TEN eleven honorable mentions. In no particular order:
- Crazy Robo for E-101r (Adventure) This was in the top 10 for a bit, but in the end it was overpowered by other choices.
- Black Bull (Shadow) Something about this song is fun. It's like, football player hype kinda fun. I dunno.
- Big Arms (Generations)
- Stardust Speedway JP (Generations mix)
- True Area 53 (Advance 2) I compared this to something from X-Men Mutant Academy on GBC a long time ago and I don't remember why, but I always think about that when I hear this.
- Bomber Barbara (Rush)
- How It Started (Secret Rings) This is a great track that is seemingly "wasted" on a "meaningless" battle against the Ifrit Golem. Maybe Anthony'll share something about that fight that'll change that, but it's Secret Rings, so I doubt it
- Egg Utopia Boss - Pinch (Advance 2) Similar to Dark Gaia, I like how things get a little more urgent and crazy-sounding, especially close to the looping point.
- Chaos Angel Boss (Advance 3) Darkly fun song, frustrating fight. Almost like Eggman comes out and says "Let's play a game... of death."
- Captain Whiskers and Johnny (Rush Adventure) Really fun, not-very-big band, swing-style song
- Iblis Phases 1 and 3 (Sonic 06)
wow that was a lot more time spent than I had imagined.
edit: didn't get links but hopefully I made them easy enough to look up on your own. I need to go the fuck to sleep :V
Sonic Unleashed - Egg Dragoon Far and away the best boss theme in any of the 3D Sonic titles. It's a pretty damn chaotic track, even from a compositional standpoint.
Sonic Adventure - Crazy Robo ...Boss E101mkII Funky, upbeat tracks like this is why I will always champion Adventure 1's soundtrack over Adventure 2's. There aren't many other boss themes in the series quite like this one.
Sonic CD - Final Fury/Fever Funnily enough, I spent the better half of my life thinking this was a NiGHTS song, since I was exposed to it in Christmas NiGHTS Into Dreams long before I even knew there was an entirely different soundtrack for CD outside the US. I bring this up because even in spite of that IP mix up, I still manage to instantly associate this song with Eggman. There's a lot of boss themes in the series that could easily work for a lot of things, but this one is unmistakably for the mad doctor himself.
Sonic 3D Blast - The Final Fight Final boss themes for this series are usually pretty bombtastic, even going back to the Genesis days. That's why this one sticks out to me so much. It's the first boss theme in the series that goes all in with having a sense of foreboding, and for such a simply composed tune, it completely owns it.
Sonic Rush - Wrapped in Black Rush's soundtrack in general is something of a unique snowflake among the series, but even considering that, Wrapped in Black is a theme that's just... so atypical of the series, even compared to the rest of Rush's soundtrack. For cripes' sake, it even samples a Malcolm X speech.
Sonic 2006 - Solaris Phase 2 *Potentially Controversial Statement Alert* I'm not really a big fan of Perfect Dark Gaia. I've always found it pretty boring compared to Solaris Phase 2. I think part of the reason Solaris Phase 2 resonates with me so much is because of His World's main melody is used as a leitmotif throughout all of 06. You get the main version of it, the invincibility theme mix, the results screen mix, to name a few. So when this track comes into play, it's pretty obvious that there's no topping this. Mostly though, I like that the theme switches on the fly from orchestral to to rock, then back the orchestral at a moments notice without it feeling like a jarring transition at all. Shame about the game it's attached to, though.
Sonic Advance 2 - True Area 53 While I'm of the opinion that Doomsday Zone will probably never be topped as far as true final boss levels in the series are concerned, True Area 53 is probably the closest the series has come to matching it, and a big reason for that is the music. For a track with a relatively short loop, it manages to ramp up the tension in a considerably short amount of time.
Sonic & Knuckles - Minor Boss I was really debating between this and Sonic CD's JP/EU boss theme, but this one won out because for a track with such a short loop period, it manages to not sound repetitive at all, which is pretty great, considering how easy it can be for compositions to fall into that trap.
Yeah, I just replayed it last year. I don't consider it a mainline Sonic game though, which is why it's not on the tier list. If I had to slot it in, it would probably be in mid tier under Sonic Heroes. Fun game, great art style/sprites, neat game engine, but SUPER repetitive and the CPU is cheap as fuck. It was especially frustrating when you were forced to use Emerl to defeat opponents, who was usually much weaker/slower than who you were fighting in every way.
Yeah, I just replayed it last year. I don't consider it a mainline Sonic game though, which is why it's not on the tier list. If I had to slot it in, it would probably be in mid tier under Sonic Heroes. Fun game, great art style/sprites, neat game engine, but SUPER repetitive and the CPU is cheap as fuck. It was especially frustrating when you were forced to use Emerl to defeat opponents, who was usually much weaker/slower than who you were fighting in every way.
Ah, that's fair. Your opinion almost exactly mirror mine, actually. I still cringe at the complete bullshit the CPU pulled during the Emerl vs. Sonic and Shadow fight. Fuck.
One problem I had with battle was that 2D sprites in a pseudo 3D arena made for awkward positioning sometimes, like you couldn't tell if you would hit them or not. I'd like to see what it would be like if they used 3D models that are drawn to look like sprites (I've seen it done but don't remember where). In other news, I'm going over so many boss themes over and over again, I just can't decide.
Someone at Machinima might be losing their job. Their latest video revealed that there's going to be a press event tomorrow detailing 2014: "The Year Of Sonic", and that it will be a "renaissance" for the brand. This was supposed to be embargoed for tomorrow.
Someone at Machinima might be losing their job. Their latest video revealed that there's going to be a press event tomorrow detailing 2014: "The Year Of Sonic", and that it will be a "renaissance" for the brand. This was supposed to be embargoed for tomorrow.
Honest to blog, if they're throwing out everything they've built up over the last five years just to start over again I'm done with this franchise. I really thought they'd learnt their lesson about not reinventing the wheel every time but Lost World has totally burnt what trust they'd managed to rebuild.
Honest to blog, if they're throwing out everything they've built up over the last five years just to start over again I'm done with this franchise. I really thought they'd learnt their lesson about not reinventing the wheel every time but Lost World has totally burnt what trust they'd managed to rebuild.
I don't think I'd go that far, but I'd certainly be disappointed that they didn't learn... which is what Lost World taught me when I'd played both versions, I guess.
Either way, I'll be stuck in the lab until 12:30 tomorrow, but this is going to be popcorn-worthy when I get back home if we get info soon.
I don't think I'd go that far, but I'd certainly be disappointed that they didn't learn... which is what Lost World taught me when I'd played both versions, I guess.
Yeah, I guess I'm being a tad hyperbolic, it's just that I thought they'd finally gotten it. Like at last they understood that you need to find a solid base and iterate, building on what works and moving on from what doesn't. The evolution from Unleashed through Colours and into Generations made it seem like Sonic Team finally had some grounding and direction and knew what they were doing with the series.
The realisation that Lost World wasn't just some misstep and they haven't is kinda disappointing.
Yeah, I guess I'm being a tad hyperbolic, it's just that I thought they'd finally gotten it. Like at last they understood that you need to find a solid base and iterate, building on what works and moving on from what doesn't. The evolution from Unleashed through Colours and into Generations made it seem like Sonic Team finally had some grounding and direction and knew what they were doing with the series.
The realisation that Lost World wasn't just some misstep and they haven't is kinda disappointing.
Warning: Long Livejournal-esque response incoming:
There was a very long stretch where I wasn't happy playing Sonic games at all. I think it mostly factored into the Adventure games (even the Blast games) triggering my motion sickness and simply not being heavily invested in the narrative focus that Sonic had begun to employ. It honestly came to a head with Heroes, which felt utterly blasé to me, and didn't even have the saving grace of more than 5 tracks on the soundtrack that I could readily recall, unlike the Adventure games. The reason why I don't talk about this stretch of games is because I don't have an attachment to them, and I know a lot of people like them. A lot of people have a very strong attachment to the Adventure games, which is why people cry out for another Adventure-styled game which would play better than Sonic 2006.
And then there was this long stretch where I became frustrated with how weird the Storybook games were, how poorly-constructed and executed Shadow was, and... how "Sonic 2006" Sonic 2006 was. I was just like, "aw man, Sega, please." Then again, that was when I was barely playing games in high school anyway.
I passed over Unleashed until SonicGAF convinced me to play it back in 2011, but it wasn't until I actually read the Colours threads here before I was approved for posting that I decided to give Colours a chance. And fuck it, I loved Colours. As stupid as it sounds, when I was much younger, this is what I thought the first steps towards a 3D Sonic would be like. Colours isn't perfect, but it was more consistent than the other Sonic games I'd played beforehand... or maybe it was just what I'd wanted as a kid, it didn't make me nauseous, I didn't think the story took itself too seriously in a completely needless way, and I liked the music a lot. I liked Unleashed a lot when I played it. And I played both versions, which have their flaws and their merits (with respect to balancing and stat balancing, of course). I think my experience with Generations was a little loftier because I was constantly talking about it with you guys and dreaming up what kind of Zones would be involved, and what music would be arranged or included. It was good times. I still feel a little salty that we never got Generations DLC. That was the game that begged for it.
And then Lost World happened, and I think a lot of us have aired our grievances and praise for that game here and in the OT with respect to the game's identity and controls/new systems.
I feel like the Uncolourations games in Unleashed, Colours, and Generations were the first time in years that I could say, "Man, I love this series so much. I love what they're doing with respect to the mechanics and stage design and there are so many cool things that fangroups are doing too. And I love watching speedruns of these games!" Sega took a foundation in Unleashed, chopped out the stuff that didn't exactly work right, rebalanced it in Colours a little, and then let loose in Generations (even if it wasn't perfect). It was boost often at first (which actually did take a fair bit of skill and better reaction times to get S-ranks), then it was pitched down to rebalance boost use and make the game slower-paced in Colours, and then it was hybridized and sped up a little with some of the better level designs in the subseries in Generations. They could've done a lot to refine the style, or could've added a few things here and there to surprise the player (level layouts, level effects, etc.).
So... to think that Sega might just throw a lot of the goodwill that they probably fostered thislast generation for something new and a small experiment to see if something will 'work' to reach new people instead of probably building on the foundation that they have and refining parts that really do need refining. But I guess it comes down to "how can we make a profit", "how can we reach new audiences given certain models and certain packaging models being profitable for other people", and other assorted things. I mean, Blaze was saying earlier that they probably want to capitalize on that goodwill that they build up, but since it's Sega, it can go either way.
This is where "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes into play to me. I know not everyone liked the Uncolourations games, but at least it was a better response to the series than it was getting in the awkward Heroes-Shadow-Storybook-2006 era, which a lot of people outright don't like, or seem to be split on.
But at the same time, I wonder if you can argue that Sonic was always a series that redefined itself time and time again. You certainly can. It's just that those models aren't always wholly successful. We all know that "Sonic" means different things to different people. Even on this very board. Even in this thread, for that matter.
At this point, I've accepted that we might never get games like Unleashed/Colors/Generations again. The only thing I can hope for is that the games are fun.
At this point, I've accepted that we might never get games like Unleashed/Colors/Generations again. The only thing I can hope for is that the games are fun.
That's not good enough for me anymore though; Unleashed wasn't just fun, it was exhilarating, it just clicked! Why walk away from something that works?
That's not good enough for me anymore though; Unleashed wasn't just fun, it was exhilarating, it just clicked! Why walk away from something that works?
Possibly because of some unnecessary need to reinvent the wheel. I'd honestly rather have some companies stop trying to give me something "new" and "fresh" and give me some of the stuff that I loved already, either through DLC or spaced out properly after a release.
That's not good enough for me anymore though; Unleashed wasn't just fun, it was exhilarating, it just clicked! Why walk away from something that works?
I really liked Unleashed. I know the reception it gets on GAF and in general, but having gone through Colours first and then back to Unleashed, it gives you a sense of how they tried to implement stuff like boost and the type of level design they wanted to theoretically use before going for it in Colours. There are some things that I felt was better in Unleashed. I've gone into how much I love the effort gone into Unleashed's art assets and music design a lot in various places, and I'm a little disappointed that I didn't see that to such an extent in Sonic games after that.
Those daytime levels were really fun. Sometimes a pain to get the medals, but it's just exhilarating learning how to speed through the act like that and using some mechanics to your advantage.
I'm also a little surprised they didn't tinker with the Werehog's stats and some of its movements and speed to try to go for another Sonic & Knuckles type of game, but given that it was slammed pretty hard, they probably didn't want to have anything to do with that even further. I like the idea of the werehog (ie: different character with different character data to be able to switch on the fly... but maybe have them navigate the same areas but with different parts of the areas, but that might be too much work), I don't necessarily like the execution because I just felt the stats were out of balance and the areas were far too long and big in some circumstances. But overall, my experience with the game, even with its flaws, was fairly positive.
No, you're right. The length of some areas are certainly things to take issue with, and I take issue with too. Remember, I'm the one who says, "I hate it when games waste my time." But at the same time, I feel like the exploration/RPG-esque aspect of the game is part of the foundation of the game and requires a lot of time to complete. It's a weird duality, and considering what genres I tend to focus on, I don't hate it (I surprisingly like it a little--but again... RPG person). At the same time, it's not something I come to Sonic games for.
It's amazing to see in a Sonic game, really, because that was still an attempt at trying their hand at an Adventure-style thing... and it was actually kinda 'workable'. I don't think that particular duality of quickly speeding through an Act vs. taking your time to explore areas and get into encounters does the game a lot of favours considering what the series is generally known and lauded for. And alas, to their credit, they figured that out and decided to focus on the quicker parts of the game in future installments (with a little slowdown in terms of pacing with respect to design).
And y'all know I don't care for 80 minutes of Eggmanland in the HD version.
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