Wait, they're seriously called Focus Attacks? Well then...
*25 minutes later*
Freaking amazing.
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Sonic the Hedgehog Community Thread |OT3 & Knuckles|
- Thread starter Professor Beef
- Start date
Freaking amazing.
Box of Bunnies
Banned
It's possible we're getting worked up over nothing and it'll just be "hey here's the new cartoon and a game that uses the story/aesthetic of the cartoon but plays like an evolution of the last few games we've put out."
Can always hope.
Tizoc
Member
Likewise, that's the thing that bothered me with LW on the 3DS, it took for fucking ever to complete an act.
The funniest terrible scenario I can imagine for this show is that they'll try to sound cool with their dialogue but instead of making up hilarious fantastical words like Adventure Time they'll dig up some relics from the 80s and 90s
If somebody says "tubular," "grody," or "gag me with a spoon," I could at least laugh to keep from cringing
If somebody says "tubular," "grody," or "gag me with a spoon," I could at least laugh to keep from cringing
but I'm actually not expecting the worst here so we'll see
If we never get more boost games it will be a damn shame, it would have been amazing if they had developed mod support for generations PC because then they could do what they want and the community could do it instead. At the moment people like Dario have a much harder time without tools implemented. This is why most games should strive for mod support actually, it really adds to any game.
Came in because of the "Focus Attack" image, getting sidetracked because of the "Uncolorations" discussion.
Is it weird of me to want both another game in that line and a more refined version of what Lost World was trying to do? I legitimately really like where they were headed, I just couldn't stand all the roadblocks they put in front of the good ideas in that game.
Is it weird of me to want both another game in that line and a more refined version of what Lost World was trying to do? I legitimately really like where they were headed, I just couldn't stand all the roadblocks they put in front of the good ideas in that game.
To be honest I dont want another game in Unleashed/Colors style. I could settle for more subdued gameplay like in Colors but I'm legitimately tired of stretches of corridors and non-stop boosting. The levels are a fun spectacle with no substance and become a chore to replay when all there is to do is speedrun to a fault. There's not much opportunity to just take in the environments and collectibles aren't very suited for that high speed gameplay.
Lost World was flawed but I'd rather they build upon that foundation instead. Fix the level design, speed it up a little and so on.
In a weird kind of way I kinda miss the days when Sonic was going in 2-3 directions at once, because now they actually have a few interesting directions they could go. I think the fact that people are asking not only for more Uncolorations, but specifically Unleashed 2, Colors 2, and Generations 2 would be worth looking into for a little bit longer.
Colors is explicitly my favorite of the boost games because of how they brought back verticality in level design (think of how many different ways there are around Planet Wisp Act 1 or Aquarium Park in general) and the ability to travel over most if not all surfaces to find new routes that didn't feel like "distractions" due to length or content along the way.
I disagree with the notion that boost gameplay is just corridors and no platforming. There is plenty of room for platforming which levels like sky sanctuary showed in generations. What's more, there were moments sprinkled throughout the game that hinted at setting challenges where you have to use just the right amount in order to manage your momentum over some obstacle. I'd like to see that idea expanded upon. Then you have things like action master where all of sonic's skillset is used to create interesting and fairly difficult challenges of precision and timing, which is of course the essence of platforming. It doesn't just have to be jumping to be platforming. That said, the speed of the levels means that the games are short because you pass by so many assets that take time to make in so little time. This has resulted in them being either too easy or the difficulty suddenly spikes (or is cheap like parts of planet wisp gens). All the more reason for mods, heh.
Seven Force
Banned
Honestly, if this ends up being a reboot that scraps everything they've tried out in the past few years, I'm bailing out on the series for good.
That's one of my favorite thing about Colors as well. I always cite Planet Wisp Act 4 as my favorite example of this. Getting all 5 Red Rings takes you through an alternate route through the level that you probably never would have thought to take otherwise.
That's one of my favorite thing about Colors as well. I always cite Planet Wisp Act 4 as my favorite example of this. Getting all 5 Red Rings takes you through an alternate route through the level that you probably never would have thought to take otherwise.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
That's why I said the reactions in the gaming thread might be popcorn/facepalm-worthy.
...not saying they already aren't. That kind of pile-on/ill-researched/poorly-articulated/ready-to-be-made-into-a-damn-bingo-card garbage made me want to stop reading the site a few weeks ago; and alas, I hadn't read the site since I said I'd scale back a few weeks ago outside of checking PMs.
It kinda feels good, to be honest, heh. I got a few games done, too. \o/
@Dario-- ahaha, I saw that a few minutes ago. That's amazing.
I don't really think that's weird at all. I think some of the parkour stuff they were doing was kind of neat. Speed things up a little bit and that way people can play with finesse.
With that said...
I agree with that. Unleashed was the start of it, and I guess a lot of the more linear pathways for the game was more of an experiment of trying to extend some of Sonic's earlier movement patterns in Sonic 3&K (in terms of stomping (bubble), "slight boosting/homing attack" (fire), and double jump (electric shield)) into 3D in a more meaningful way for flow in a 3D stage. Momentum and speed management throughout the three games became modified enough for the player not to over-rely on it, but to also ration it (esp. in Colours).
But at the same time, they did try to make better 3D stages as the series went on. I thought Sky Sanctuary, Seaside Hill, Crisis City (yes, Crisis City!), and Rooftop Run were some of the best level designs in that particular trilogy because they did try to integrate some platforming in combination with actually being able to speedily and efficiently do it. Action Master is honestly what I wanted out of the next Sonic game, with decent pacing per area, and we kind of got that, but we kind of didn't at the same time given that the pacing was offbeat. It emphasized that Sonic isn't only about momentum and speed, but also about using that to platform efficiently enough for score/time-attacking purposes.
That's why I like looking at mods and looking at what speedrunners do for these games. They find some cool stuff that I probably wouldn't have even thought of. Pretty cool problem-solving skills when you think about it.
I'm getting it in the mail soon because I didn't realize it was getting localized despite hints being dropped, so I'll let you know when I play it soon after getting it.
But no, I haven't heard good things about it from Japanese players and importers at all since it feels low-budget and unpolished. But w/e, I'll try it.
...For what it's worth, I'm getting Puyo Puyo Tetris.
It's getting hot in here, so take off all yo clothes
I am a hedgehog, I don't have no clothes on
And please, stop with this Lost World nonsense. THAT, is the POS. Not SATSR.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
This is why I want Anth0ny to play Lost World.
I want an Anth0ny score.
I want an Anth0ny score.
Both Lost World and Secret Rings are decent games. Not bad, they just have flaws that keep them from being really great games/formulas on their own right. In Lost World most of the issues are questionable level design, in Secret Rings it's the fact that you have to play the game and "buy" better controls.
Planet Wisp was easily the moment in the game where I thought to myself that Sonic Team still has good to excellent games/level design in them. It's like everything the boost games were and the Genesis games (in terms of sprawling multi tiered areas) came together and I finally saw that the style of gameplay they started designing around with Unleashed -could- work and be both different and in character for the series.
Hot damn. Never thought of it being applied like this, but you might be right. Personally, I like the Point A to Point B obstacle course design (with lots of different routes and areas scattered about of course) and I do feel that if Sega blended elements of the boost games with Lost World's core while removing or refining LW's mechanical clunkiness, that'd be the best "new" Sonic game easily.
@NotLiquid: Level design hurting what they were trying to accomplish is a given, but certain basic mechanics could be better introduced & communicated (parkour and the game absolutely would have benefited from quick step) while others could be refined to a finer degree (parkour again - there's a stiffness to it currently that keeps it from being a well implemented idea; the spindash which could have worked like boosts in general versus requiring a momentary stop to rev n go; double jump height and momentum.)
Nocturnowl
Member
I still don't get how they could've screwed up by making parkour stiff and not fluid, it's like they entirely missed the point of the concept, hammered home further by this being Sonic of all characters slowly trudging up walls.
As true as this is, the biggest culprit to me are his interactions on solid walls. Nothing like fucking something up because you jumped at a wall and got magnetized to it. Maybe a second press of the fast run button would have helped?
That was a pretty glaring oversight and finding out how to properly utilize things like the Spin Dash made the game infinitely more fun for me. Incidentally the 3DS version explained all of this and managed to feel a bit more easy to control than the Wii U version but of course the levels have to be even worse to make up for that improvement.
I have to say one of my favorite moments of Lost World is in the first act of Desert Ruins. Both vaulting off of ramps and running in that huge open desert area near the end somehow felt more satisfyingly fast than Generations ever did, if only because it felt like you were in control and it wasn't just set pieces.
SpikedGunner
Member
additionally, I just found trying to get the angle right for some of the walls rather frustration. I think Silent Forest Act 3 and Lava Mountain Act 3 were also some of the bigger offenders of the Parkour flawed designs, namely the side climb and somehow (while running) winding up CLIMBING UP THE WALL.
Nocturnowl
Member
Maybe, I was thinking of if they'd maybe had run and parkour on separate buttons but that would likely lead to some finger gymnastics and I was having enough trouble at the start of the game remembering the right positions for the three different aerial options (homing attack, double jump, divekick).
When it does work it is fun, which is probably why the shoddy implementation stings all the more.
More open areas like the desert would've been nice, while the modern 3D games blend with 2D gameplay a lot Lost World was dman near abandoning the 3D side of things the further it went on which coming to think of it was easily one of its bigger issues, all those parkour moves are clearly designed more for 3D space yet the most you'll be doing with it is getting stuck on walls in 2D sections as Jericho said.
As per Sonic Team tradition there could be something here if they ironed out the kinks but I'd rather have them go back to perfecting boost style since they were on the brink of a breakthrough.
Oh yeah, you had to try and hit the wall to go diagonally but sometimes it just sent you straight up.
There's also the unexplained ability to use the side jump while on a wall to shift around a corner and start running on the next section of a wall, not only does the actual act of trying this make it seem like you'd just jump off the wall entirely but it was often over a bottomless pit, trial by fire in the worst way.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Argh, this happened in both versions and I was like, why would you do that?
Screwed up a lot of my speedier runs, haha.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
There was info in the past that kinda suggested that these designs miiiiiiight be permanent.
But who knows.
I like Sonic's scarf. But I like scarves in general.
But who knows.
I like Sonic's scarf. But I like scarves in general.
Nocturnowl
Member
Scarves do work for characters that run a lot, I want to see that scarf billowing gloriously in boost mode gameplay.
seattle6418
Member
Because this needs to be repeated more: if Sega had released just more levels for Sonic 3 & K they would have done more good than all this crap we´ve gotten in the last 20 years.
It´s so simple, yet so hard for them to understand.
It´s so simple, yet so hard for them to understand.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
They are legitimate.
I dunno. I felt like the last 8 or so years were fine. Everyone in those days were moving towards 3D in a bit of an arms race, so of course they had to transition over.
Sonic's design is actually pretty good, it surprised me honestly. Some have said hipster but I prefer the Indiana Jones explorer explanation for the scarf. Tails and Amy are ok, but a bit busy, and Knuckles... wut.
Edit: Okay the in-game models look awful though, my first impressions were based off of the artwork.
Edit: Okay the in-game models look awful though, my first impressions were based off of the artwork.
Tizoc
Member
http://brbent.com/
So this game's outsourced to a complete new studio?
Well let's see what they can offer.
Funnily enough there was a thread on GAF where they talked about outsourcing the Sonic games.
So this game's outsourced to a complete new studio?
Well let's see what they can offer.
Funnily enough there was a thread on GAF where they talked about outsourcing the Sonic games.
BRB is composed of former Naughty Dog devs and apparently Sanzaru has a bit of a hand in this game too?
This might be good. Even if the models don't look the part and the game itself looks like a far cry from previous Sonic games, the environments were very Ratchet-like and I'm glad to see they're trying different playstyles again which actually look playable for once.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
I heard BRB = console version
Sanzaru = 3DS version
Sanzaru = 3DS version
Tizoc
Member
Interesting, but I just realized:
This is for WiiU and 3DS only.
If the 3DS ver. is good I'll get it.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Ratchet is exactly what I thought when I saw it. Very Tools of Destruction/Crack in Time-esque. Didn't see enough of the gameplay to comment but the trails they leave behind maybe indicate some kind of boosting is involved? And it seems like it might be 4-player oriented. At least in terms of design.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
I gotta say: I don't understand the hate over the redesigns (sans Knuckles).
Have you seen the in-game models? They look a lot worse than the artwork.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
blue arms is the new green eyes
i dunno.
Tails looks fine. Scarf is complimentary. Wondering if they changed Amy's personality a bit. Roid Liftman/Buffles the Enchilada is the one that's weird.
But yeah, when it's all being animated, it looks off.
So, uh, apparently Chris Senn is in on this too.