-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Sony’s 2021 TV lineup runs Google TV and fully embraces HDMI 2.1
Warnen
Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
For some reason lots of Sony TVs only support HDR on inputs 2/3, got an update recently that let you get it on hdmi 1 but only 30hz. I had an Xbox, PS4, roku and Apple TV hooked up to the tv. all used Hdr.
Now that I upgraded to the Samsung that does 120hz and vvr that Sony tv is in another room that only has a roku hooked up to it so it’s fine. Just a shame Sony cheaps out on that. I get it for the 1st gen (witch I also had) but this was a 2019 tv.
StateofMajora
Banned
Mmhmm. Their motion is the best in the world, while their upscaling and color accuracy is the best in the United States at least. Not that other brands don't have merits, but for the picture connoisseur, Sony is the best. Panasonic currently has the brightest oled, but it seems Sony will match it this year.
Samsung and LG are ahead in hardware specification, because they make the best panels. But once the technology is mature, Sony adopts it and has by far the best iteration of it. Everything I watch or play is on some kind of Sony display
Bo_Hazem
Banned
From the Sony website on the X90J page. Less than 8.5ms input lag. That would be great!
They usually under promise. They said 7.2ms and it did 6.7ms by HDTVtest.
GymWolf
Gold Member
yes, literally the only reason why i bought a panasonic is because they have the best color accuracy out of the box compared to any other brand (at least in 2018 when i bought my current oled tv), i'm not good with calibration so i want the best color accuracy without me playing with the settings, also my tv was the best overall oled tv of 2018 in the only oled contest that was made by hdtv.
also they have this nice thing where you can use game mode with every picture mode available, i can use game mode to reduce latency with professional 2 mode (basically the best mode for color accuracy).
A lot of tv have a not great game mode with too unrealistic colors, it's okay to play stuff cartony stuff, but not for realistic or semi-realistic stuff like uncharted or rdr2 or horizon.
Last edited:
TKOFromTokyo
Member
I’m glad I waited.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
According to that, you'll be as happy or more with Sony as according to many like Vincent from HDTVtest they are the best in image processing and color accuracy. I heard lots of great things about Panasonic and I trust them second to Sony due to their photography and videography experience. We rarely see them in our market that's dominated by Sony, Samsung, and LG.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Well then i'm probably gonna buy a sony oled.
They are kinda pricey here in europe tho...
Last edited:
dolabla
Member
Excellent! That's pretty awesome how far they've come. I'm currently using my 43" X800D as my main gaming tv and the input lag on it is in the 30's if I remember correctly. The X900E I had I think was also in the 30's.
StateofMajora
Banned
I'm interested in seeing the input lag at 60hz. I wouldn't expect it to be as low as Samsung, the leader in input lag currently. But that's because Samsung's processing which already isn't close to Sony takes a nose dive in game mode ; nerfed local dimming etc. despite having more dimming zones.
Anything under 15ms is gravy, which is already less than one frame.
Anything under 15ms is gravy, which is already less than one frame.
Last edited:
Bo_Hazem
Banned
StateofMajora
Banned
You gonna bite on one of these LCD's tokyo? Or wait next year for mini led?
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Always wait for sales.
But no Freesync nor G-Sync, if you PC game on it, only open-source VRR.
TKOFromTokyo
Member
I currently still use a 1080p tv. I’ll probably get one of the LCDs for my PS5. I think it should get me through until microLED is ready.
Kuranghi
Member
HDR is available on all ports, just only at 30hz on ports 1 and 4 (60hz on 2 and 3). Only two of those devices require 4K60hz output surely though, the consoles.
I don't know why you'd need the Apple TV or Roku to output 4K@60hz, since all the content is 24 or 30hz. On both Apple TV and Roku you can set it to output at the refresh rate of the content its playing at the time, that way you can enjoy HDR on all ports of the TV, since there aren't really any films/TV shows above 30hz. I only know of one: "Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk".
StateofMajora
Banned
900e honestly still feels reasonably responsive, though significantly more sluggish than my A8h. I still use my 900e for 4:3 watching and playing a few older systems on. The 900e is a legendary tv, and unless Sony ups the dimming zones on these 21' displays, is still going to have less blooming and deeper blacks due to having a lower brightness but the same zone count.
A doubling of the zone count vs. last year would be a nice surprise, but I wouldn't expect it. Again, Sony is pretty conservative.
Last edited:
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Let's not forget that PS5 and XSX, at least, use Panasonic HDMI chips, same with last gen.
dolabla
Member
LG and Samsung going Mini-LED
Samsung pisses me off though as someone with limited space for a tv. Because of how they gimp their smaller sets in the same models. For example the Q90T 49" and later they upped the size and released a 50". Both have 60hz panels unlike their larger sizes. I'm pretty sure they'll do that with their 50" mini-led. I will be shocked if they don't.
LG uses IPS panels (will be interested to see how mini-led helps the blacks), but they at least still include a 120hz panel in their smaller size on their premium sets. And of course, as does Sony.
Last edited:
Fake
Member
Just a shame they don't want to push microLED yet.
Indeed. Fightning games and FPS will be amazing good.
From the Sony website on the X90J page. Less than 8.5ms input lag. That would be great!
Indeed. Fightning games and FPS will be amazing good.
HTK
Banned
Honestly Input Lag at 6 to 8 ms is amazing and rivals or beats some of the Gaming Monitors at 120hz it's nuts, but you get the benefit of better picture quality. The same thing with OLEDs refresh rate, LG's is 1ms I believe. Crazy.
dolabla
Member
Yeah, I really miss mine and never wish I had sold it. I still get to see it every once in a while as I sold it to my brother and I'm still amazed by its picture quality.
Kuranghi
Member
I await impressions from CES on the X90J and X95J from VT et al. I just really hope they make a 4K LCD that can beat the X95G, which is still the best 4K LCD from Sony as of 2021 imo. The X95H was a downgrade in backlighting quality and that was disappointing for me.
If you want an amazing value Sony 4K FALD LCD right now instead of waiting til Black Friday 2021 to get these new sets cheaper (but not this cheap) then look for an XG9505 (UK model number), you can get a 55" open box on ebay UK for £899 right now, which is brilliant for the image you get:
Even if the new processor is a big step up I think the overall IQ will be better on the XG95 for most people if they keep the dimming zone count from the X95H. The dimming algorithm is very important to control blooming and other backlight artifacts, but you will definitely notice the difference between 48 and 60 zones, for example.
If you buy a TV every 2-3 years then get that and then you will be ready for the new tech in 2023. No HDMI 2.1, but it isn't really necessary for next-gen consoles right now, its much more about PCs right now. I do say this as a SP gamer, MP 4K120hz modes might be a big enough reason to not get an 2.0 set though if thats your jam.
If you want an amazing value Sony 4K FALD LCD right now instead of waiting til Black Friday 2021 to get these new sets cheaper (but not this cheap) then look for an XG9505 (UK model number), you can get a 55" open box on ebay UK for £899 right now, which is brilliant for the image you get:
SONY BRAVIA KD55XG9505BU 55" Smart 4K Ultra HD HDR LED TV with Google Assistant | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for SONY BRAVIA KD55XG9505BU 55" Smart 4K Ultra HD HDR LED TV with Google Assistant at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!
www.ebay.co.uk
Even if the new processor is a big step up I think the overall IQ will be better on the XG95 for most people if they keep the dimming zone count from the X95H. The dimming algorithm is very important to control blooming and other backlight artifacts, but you will definitely notice the difference between 48 and 60 zones, for example.
If you buy a TV every 2-3 years then get that and then you will be ready for the new tech in 2023. No HDMI 2.1, but it isn't really necessary for next-gen consoles right now, its much more about PCs right now. I do say this as a SP gamer, MP 4K120hz modes might be a big enough reason to not get an 2.0 set though if thats your jam.
Kuranghi
Member
I do wish we could get a proper 4K flagship LCD again, I was hoping for an X95+J with dimming zone count equalling the 4K flagship from Samsung in 2018 and 2019, but it was wishful thinking given the 2018 ZF9 only had 104 zones in 65".
We'll have to see how the X90J and X95J works out in that regard, but I bet its the same as XH90/95. The XH90 isn't as good PQ as the X90E a lot of people here own. That had 35 zones and XH90 has 32 zones, which doesn't help, but its really the processor that makes the difference, the X1 chip in the XH90 isn't the same X1 as is in the XE90, it doesn't support Super Bit Mapping and has a much lower brightness levels across different situations.
I know I sound like a broken record going on about zones all the time, but you really have to see a FALD LCD with 300+ dimming zones to see how fucking amazing it looks. On my ZD9 (646 zones) some HDR TV shows are almost too bright because they are made to look good on TVs with much worse contrast/HDR tonemapping, torches and other bright lights look like actual IRL lights on the screen, in something like The Expanse for instance, it just adds so much depth to the image.
Is someone here in the UK? You can come round to my house and I'll show you what I mean in person, then they can come back here and post "Okay, Kuranghi wasn't bullshitting, it was fucking ace"
We'll have to see how the X90J and X95J works out in that regard, but I bet its the same as XH90/95. The XH90 isn't as good PQ as the X90E a lot of people here own. That had 35 zones and XH90 has 32 zones, which doesn't help, but its really the processor that makes the difference, the X1 chip in the XH90 isn't the same X1 as is in the XE90, it doesn't support Super Bit Mapping and has a much lower brightness levels across different situations.
I know I sound like a broken record going on about zones all the time, but you really have to see a FALD LCD with 300+ dimming zones to see how fucking amazing it looks. On my ZD9 (646 zones) some HDR TV shows are almost too bright because they are made to look good on TVs with much worse contrast/HDR tonemapping, torches and other bright lights look like actual IRL lights on the screen, in something like The Expanse for instance, it just adds so much depth to the image.
Is someone here in the UK? You can come round to my house and I'll show you what I mean in person, then they can come back here and post "Okay, Kuranghi wasn't bullshitting, it was fucking ace"
RCU005
Member
I wanted to get a new TV for the PS5, however I preferred to get the X950G and wait a few years to get a MicroLED TV. We all know they are coming, and I didn’t want to deal with any issues from OLED sooner or later.
After all, I don’t think many games will truly use the capabilities of HDMI 2.1 this gen.
I am enjoying the TV so much, so I can happily wait. I’ll definitely prefer a MicroLED.
StateofMajora
Banned
I meant Sony mini led lol.LG and Samsung going Mini-LED
Samsung pisses me off though as someone with limited space for a tv. Because of how they gimp their smaller sets in the same models. For example the Q90T 49" and later they upped the size and released a 50". Both have 60hz panels unlike their larger sizes. I'm pretty sure they'll do that with their 50" mini-led. I will be shocked if they don't.
LG uses IPS panels (will be interested to see how mini-led helps the blacks), but they at least still include a 120hz panel in their smaller size on their premium sets. And of course, as does Sony.
Ips has horrible black uniformity at big sizes, so lg’s mini led will be an interesting experiment. Active matrix (unless it’s passive) with good uniformity could be very compelling to some if the price is right, we will see!
Samsung is indeed misleading with it’s naming scheme. Samsung mini led will the one to go for I’m sure, if you want the lowest input lag for games, and deepest blacks while movie watching (for lcd). I can’t sacrifice motion, color and picture processing though, or downgrade to a backlight tv so I’ll wait for Sony QNED or crystal led
This is all assuming their are no kinks in mini leds first big year, can’t wait to see.
Last edited:
StateofMajora
Banned
I’m telling you brother, 900e is a fantastic tv. Slap 2.1 on it and it’d be ready for ps5 ;p
StateofMajora
Banned
I owned the 950g and honestly besides brightness and input lag it was a worse tv than 900e.
900e was the best gaming lcd in 2017, z9d was the best cinema lcd, full stop. Still if you have to upgrade this year, there will be plenty of decent options.
Last edited:
dolabla
Member
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if it has any issues being new tech and all. I heard somewhere the TCL mini-led has somewhat of a problem with black crush. Want to say it was from one of those youtube comparison vids I was watching.I meant Sony mini led lol.
Ips has horrible black uniformity at big sizes, so lg’s mini led will be an interesting experiment. Active matrix (unless it’s passive) with good uniformity could be very compelling to some if the price is right, we will see!
Samsung is indeed misleading with it’s naming scheme. Samsung mini led will the one to go for I’m sure, if you want the lowest input lag for games, and deepest blacks while movie watching (for lcd). I can’t sacrifice motion, color and picture processing though, or downgrade to a backlight tv so I’ll wait for Sony QNED or crystal led
This is all assuming their are no kinks in mini leds first big year, can’t wait to see.
But yeah, Sony tv's just have that natural look in the colors, etc. They're top notch in their processing.
Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
Yeah I bought an 85" X900H thinking it was going to have all the features it said on the box only to find out it really doesn't.
We're still waiting on a fucking VRR firmware update much less the 4K120 problem which apparently is hardware related so it never worked to begin with.
On the upside, there simply isn't a TV that can compete at $2000 or less (on sale) and is 85" or bigger. So in that regard it's not like I got screwed or anything. But missing two great new features like that is really a bummer.
Kuranghi
Member
Yes, TV models are refreshed every year, even if they don't change much.
We don't know yet what the difference in image processing is, we;ll need to wait for proper comparisons around April, with the sets usually releasing in May.
You'll get impressions from CES at the end of the month but they won't be exhaustive. If the new XR processor is a step up from the X1 Ultimate processor then I'm guessing the X90J will be a big step up from X900H, but the X95J will be a smaller difference in that regard.
Quality step up is like this imo:
X1 (2020)
X1 (2016-2019, I'm not familiar with it before that so it may have been different)
X1 Extreme
X1 Ultimate
XR
So going from the 2019 X900H > X90J is jumping up 4 processors technically, whereas going from X950H > X95J is only one jump up. As I said though, we have wait and find out for sure, these are just reasonable assumptions based on the past 4 year's models.
Moogle11
Banned
Super happy with my 65" 900h I got back in October as well. Hell of a nice TV for the $998 I paid, especially since I covered nearly all of it with Amazon Visa reward points, Gift Cards and selling a couple things I wasn't using on eBay.
Aegsorciten
Neo Member
I like Sonys drive to do new things, however with their overpriced TVs (Haven't checked the new ones) that don't realy compare to LG or Samsung in the same price range, it will take a long time before I will buy an TV from Sony. Their projectors is however another story.
StateofMajora
Banned
Tcl was passive matrix so basically the dimming algorithm couldn’t keep up, causing blooming and ghosting. The colors were wrong, very wrong, they displayed in a way that they looked *more* natural off axis
Just all around awful. The big boys may get it right on the first try though!
bargeparty
Member
The current A8H OLED was fairly competitively priced and even dropped to like $1800 for the 65".
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Nice. Wanted to go Sony this last year, but went with an LG CX instead.
midasmulligan
Member
NVM, wrong comp
Last edited:
Kuranghi
Member
Its a lovely set in a vacuum but when you compare it to 2017-2019 Sony models it disappoints in various ways. I was trying to discourage people from buying it for various reasons but you have to upgrade sometime and I know people were attracted to the 4K120hz, and its disappointing that it can't really do it justice.
I believe its down to them putting this "new X1" chip in it, that isn't its own dedicated image processor, but instead piggybacks on the OS's mediatek chip. So you lose a feature X1-branded Sony TVs had from 2017-2019 - super bit mapping, which reduces banding in gradients - and it has overall softer/worse image quality according to Vincent Teoh and other tech enthusiasts.
What you gain though is better OS usability + speed, unbeatable price at launch and better motion processing via X-Motion Clairty, so tbh I think the caveats are worth it especially when new buyers won't ever be able to see it next to the XE/F90 anywaym while the upgrades can easily be noticed in isolation.
Do you personally notice a big difference in softness when comparing the 4K60 output to the 4K120 output? Although it might be hard to do an objective test without a PC since 4K120hz modes in games may lower the IQ in other ways compared to 4K60 which would mess up a comparison.
Kuranghi
Member
Nah, its just marketing bullshit, a "QLED" is a regular LCD TV with a "quantum dot enhancement film", or QDEF. While an OLED is a new technology where each pixel can be independently turned on and off.
Sony and LG have QDEFs in all of their FALD LCDs, they call it Triuminous and Nanocell respectively. There used to be reasons to get a QLED over an LCD from Sony in 2018 and 2019, but not in 2020 because they gimped the 4K models to make the 8K sets more attractive, possibly also to make the new 2021 Samsung sets look like a large upgrade over 2020.
We'll have to see what the Samsung 4K LCDs in 2021 are like later in this year.
Last edited:
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Only paid 850 for my xh90, so I guess I'm selling it when the x90j launches.
Kuranghi
Member
Even if you ignore the differences in image processing between Sony and LG OLEDs the difference in the motion processing is night and day, you can set it quite high on a Sony OLED and see no artifacts whereas the LG implementation will break easily during many situations.
I say this because most people will want to turn on motion interpolation on an OLED so its very relevant. Unless I mistook what you meant in bold, but it seems like you were saying its just more money for the same thing.
sublimit
Banned
That's cool but personally i'm waiting patiently for the new Panasonic OLED models which hopefully will have much less input lag than current Panasonic models and both HDMI 2.1 and VRR. So far Panasonic has been catering more to the movie market (in which they dominate in terms of quality and color accurancy) but they are hinting that with their '21 OLED models they will be also catering to the gaming market. It's one of the reasons i'm waiting before i jump in to PS5. I don't like LG and even though i know that all OLED tvs use LG panels it's the technology and color expertise that matters to me and Panasonic is unrivaled in that department. So yeah i have no problem waiting even another year until Panasonic makes some models that are geared more towards gaming than movies.
