ethomaz
Banned
Actually the LG lacks full HDMI 2.1 support too... all TVs actually in the market have half-backed HDMI 2.1.
Like I said in other thread if you want full HDMI 2.1 wait 2021/2022 models.
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Sony’s 2021 TV lineup runs Google TV and fully embraces HDMI 2.1
Like I said in other thread if you want full HDMI 2.1 wait 2021/2022 models.
sublimit
Banned
I don't mean to derail the thread, but did anyone see that Panasonic OLEDs are available in the US from Value Electronics?!
Value Electronics is now Panasonic's OLED USA dealer
Just today we finalized our deal to become Panasonic's only USA dealer for their Large-format Client Review OLED monitors. It takes many months of working with color scientists to fine tune the HCX processor to Hollywood's picture performance standards and to hand select the OLED modules...www.hometheaterforum.com
I am in Europe but i also want Panasonic to become more broadly available in the U.S. as well even if it is from a select few retailers.
Btw just less than 24 hours since my last post in this thread this video came up!
Man i can't wait for Panasonic's new models to arrive! I should really start saving though.
splattered
Member
I'm hoping TCL takes HDMI 2.1 seriously for their next round of sets, surely they want to profit off of all the new next gen console owners that will be looking for more budget friendly TVs. My TCL 55" that are 2/3 years old now are still running strong but i'm looking forward to experiencing more of what these consoles are capable of when paired with a proper TV/Monitor.
Excess
Member
Are you referring to gaming or just overall image processing? I would expect Sony to have the advantage for the latter.
mitchman
Gold Member
Just exactly what is missing from 2019 LG OLEDs when it comes to HDMI 2.1? It has the full bandwidth, supports 4k@120Hz, ALLM, eARC, etc.
ethomaz
Banned
You already said something they don't support... full bandwidth.
All LG HDMI 2.1 TVs are 40Gbps.
That is why they had issue with full RGB or YCBCR 4:4:4.
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Kuranghi
Member
I meant motion interpolation (for outside game mode) and black frame insertion (for both) is best on Sony. I also think upscaling, tonemapping and other image processing like gradient handling is better on Sony. I agree you could put VRR under motion processing as well, which Sony hasn't touched yet and LG is leading the way on of right now, but its had too many problems for me to recommend buying a TV for it.
LG has lower input lag than Sony but then it has worse image quality because of it, so its a tradeoff but I'd personally not recommend buying an LG over a Sony because of it, especially now, its down to 2-3ms of difference and 99.9% of people can't notice that. Even before when it was 26ms for Sony and 16ms for LG I'd still say the Sony unless you are trying to be competitive in your gaming, because most modern games have so much internal lag that 10ms won't make a meaningful difference when added on top, games usually have some sort of "coyote time" where it will accept the input after it looks like you've been hit as well.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
No, that is only true of the 2020 ones. 2019 ones have the full 48 Gbps
ethomaz
Banned
LG C9 had the same issues...
These lcds are shit. Don't get why people get so hyped for Sony lcds. They have clearly communicated they don't give a shit about lcd anymore after the Z9D.
They can use whatever buzzwords or specs they want, a big screen "hdr" va panel lcd with a couple dozen dimming zones is trash. It doesn't matter what other specs it has.
will probably get the new 77 OLED later this year though if the economy doesn't collapse.
They can use whatever buzzwords or specs they want, a big screen "hdr" va panel lcd with a couple dozen dimming zones is trash. It doesn't matter what other specs it has.
will probably get the new 77 OLED later this year though if the economy doesn't collapse.
Kuranghi
Member
If you are using eARC though then its to connect a soundbar or receiver so you'd be putting the devices through the sound system and not using the TV ports at all, it would all go into HDMI 3. The exception is a soundbar with only one input and one (ARC) output, which I know do exist, like the Sony XF9000 soundbar, but at that point I'd just use a switch and strap it to the back of the soundbar or TV, but then you have wall-mounting messing things up haha.
Its very annoying for people like us, they should have 4 full ports and you don't need to mess around, but I do get it from a money saving perspective because it really doesn't apply to a large amount of the buyers of the sets, less than 1% maybe.
TKOFromTokyo
Member
Some of us don't buy new TVs every 2-3 years and don't want OLED for burn in for that reason. I'm still using a Panasonic TC-L37DT30. One of these Sony LCDs should be able to bridge the gap for me until microLED is ready.
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
The price of the OLEDs isn't gonna be pretty. You'll need deep pockets to afford one before 2022.
Also, only the A90J seems to be made to accommodate a soundbar. What's the deal with that X95J's feet, lol.
Also, only the A90J seems to be made to accommodate a soundbar. What's the deal with that X95J's feet, lol.
i havnt bought a sony tv in years but ten yearsd before that is all I bought. They are always a year or 2 behind now.
Kuranghi
Member
My gut tells me the 4K "QLED Neo" miniLED sets from Samsung will either just match the dimming performance of the 2018 and 2019 flagship 4K from Samsung or be slightly below it. Unless they cost more than OLEDs or something stupid like that. I'd love to see innovation but the gimping of the 2020 4K flagship Q90T (Over the Q9FN and Q90R) to promote 8K now also seems like a ploy to make these new 4K QLED Neo miniLED sets look better when you compare them to last years 4K offering.
If it matches or exceeds the dimming performance of my ZD9 (while not fucking with the image too much to control blooming like the Q90R) I'll be very excited for that though, so heres hoping we see some new freshness.
Excess
Member
Ah, ok yeah. I just assumed that everyone here is probably buying a TV with gaming in mind. I think best case scenario for gaming is still LG, given that it has the VRR support, plus G-Sync. In terms of post-processing, Sony is great for film and television, but a solid calibration effort can go along ways in improving any Game Mode, regardless of the brand. I currently have my 2017 LG calibrated.
Where LG needs to improve is in the OLED technology that is causing raised blacks in VRR, and to increase the level of peak brightness with HDR.
Kuranghi
Member
If someone tells me they want a TV right now and they can't wait and they want VRR + G-Sync there is no other choice definitely. I'd just recommend waiting and get the whole package with Sony, there must be a reason they are waiting on VRR, they keep talking about certification from someone so maybe those folks aren't happy with how it is in TVs yet.
I just used to watch LG and Sony OLEDs right next to each other all day and play tons of different content on them and even my LG colleague agrees the motion interpolation + BFI is miles ahead, with tonemapping being a bit more natural on the Sony, the aforementioned gradient handling and colour accuracy being better OOB without calibration, and I think those things all really add up to trump the VRR and G-sync features overall, I would rather have higher quality pixels than smoother motion. I mostly play on PC as well so that rarely affects me because I'd never play a game not locked to 30 to 60 or 120, I'd change res/settings if it wasn't locked until it was.
Its going to be fantastic to not have to worry about small fps drops (on console especially where you can't do shit to fix it) that in the future will be handled by g-sync + VRR but I'm not willing to sacrifice the overall IQ for it right now.
I know most people don't have the chance to compare TVs as I have so to most the gradient handling, tonemapping and colour accuracy OOB its not going to be a difference they can really grasp without seeing it.
iamvin22
Industry Verified
There is no vrr out the box. It will be later added by firmware. Sounds great right? Well I have a x900h and my unit still doesn't have vrr through firmware so don't count on vrr anytime soon for all of these tvs.
TKOFromTokyo
Member
Yeah, I will not buy one of these until that is confirmed to have been updated without problems.
Kuranghi
Member
I'd be willing to help some US Pana fans get an OLED sent over from the UK if possible, does it work out stupid money when you take into account tax and shipping? Those professional panels the one guy is doing are just so overpriced it feels like it would still work out cheaper.
iamvin22
Industry Verified
If I'm being honest Sony actually just used last years screens and added the xr chip. They didn't invest in any technology with these units. All of the other manufacturers went mini led. Sony did nothing but add a chip to all units which is great but yea. I would not suggest any of these sets.
ethomaz
Banned
I'm a bit confuse but only the 8k model is LED, no? The 4k model is OLED.
Fake
Member
Sony did great things around tech, but on the screen side, are Sony relly to LG for OLED panel just like Apple do?
Maybe thats explain 'why' they run between full array LED and OLED.
iamvin22
Industry Verified
the highest end 8k oled model does have the larger size and higher brightness. its really the only improved model out of all the units. all of the led models have the benefit of the xr chip but they are pretty much last years units with the chip.
here's a guy explaining the same thing.
iamvin22
Industry Verified
correct!!! infact all of the tv companies relly on lg for oled screens
Excess
Member
Technically, LG Display, a subsidiary of LG, and separate from LG Electronics.
mitchman
Gold Member
No, 2019 models are full 48Gbps, 2020 models are 40. Not that it matters at all, the panels are only 10-bit anyway. No, they do not have issues with 4:4:4 with 40Gbps if you stick to 10-bit, which is max for the panels anyway. And yes, 2019 models supports the full 48Gbps, fwiw.
mitchman
Gold Member
Source? My B9 does not have this imaginary "issue" of only supporting 10-bit color.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Pretty weary about Sony TVs after reading about the X900H problems.. I decided against one after being JUST ABOUT to pull the trigger when I read about the 120hz blur. They "fixed it" but according to people on reddit, it's a problem with the basic functionality of the set in that it can't produce a 1:1 pixel mapped image @4k120.
Now people are freaking out because there are some updates to Sony sites that removed the "VRR coming in a firmware update" message. Some have been told by Sony support that firmware is no longer coming for the X900H for the final 2.1 feature support.
Now people are freaking out because there are some updates to Sony sites that removed the "VRR coming in a firmware update" message. Some have been told by Sony support that firmware is no longer coming for the X900H for the final 2.1 feature support.
makemehappyagain
Banned
Sure I heard this same thing last year....
kyliethicc
Member
Sony are waiting on the HDMI Forum to finally certify industry wide open source VRR. Unlike Freesync or Gsync, its not a finished standard yet or made by 1 company that Sony can easily add. And Sony seems uninterested in adding Freesync/Gsync.
Its as if Dolby Vision & HDR10+ were both finalized and ready, but the open HDR10 standard was still not certified by the HDMI Forum.
kyliethicc
Member
iamvin22
Industry Verified
so all the other tv manufactures are using uncertified vrr? i had heard about what you said before but people will say "vrr has been around for a long time" didn't know the HDMi forum was seeking certification.
dolabla
Member
X85J may be an HDMI 2.1 option for people on a budget. And in smaller sizes too, though they'll probably be edge lit. Hopefully they're not IPS.
kyliethicc
Member
Idk exactly, thats what I've read and seen said in videos. But I also know HDMI Forum just got around to creating ceritified HDMI 2.1 cables this summer too. So perhaps?
I think Sony will have VRR added to the PS5, the X900H and their new TVs by this summer. And hopefully also unlock the M.2 SSD bay in the PS5 as well.
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kyliethicc
Member
I expect the cheapest models to be edge lit (43"-50"), but all X85J models should be VA panels. Some X80J models will likely use IPS.
iamvin22
Industry Verified
yea i have 2 of those certified hdmi cables. felt good scanning the code image and it came back certified by the forum
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Certification is cool and all.. but the hardware is done anyways, and there are techs out there capable of HDMI 2.1's promised features.
And Sony legit removed the mention of VRR/ALLM support from X900h on their support site.
So I don't know if the theory they are waiting for the HDMI forum even holds sound.
And Sony legit removed the mention of VRR/ALLM support from X900h on their support site.
So I don't know if the theory they are waiting for the HDMI forum even holds sound.
dolabla
Member
Yep, right on about the X80J. The smaller X800D was the the last of X800 series to have VA. I remember the 49" had an IPS and the 43" has a VA panel which is what I'm using right now. It's edge lit, but it pretty much has no light bleed. I tried a 43" Samsung Q60 a couple of years ago and my X800D blew it out of the water. There was light bleed all over the place and the picture quality was just horrible.
kyliethicc
Member
Thats funny cause I was shopping/comparing both the Q60 and the X800. I ended up going with the Samsung because I got it for super cheap, a deal I couldn't get the Sony for. Both seem solid budget friendly options.
I am hoping to sell my current TV this fall and buy the new Sony X90J.
Kuranghi
Member
I don't think the chipset for the 85 and 80 is correct here, most sites are reporting its the X1 (Prob 2020 one), not the X-Reality Pro.
Regardless, this worries me tbh, why haven't they pushed the X1 Extreme and X1 Ultimate down the lineup to make the low end models in 2021 look as good as top models from only a year or two ago? Not in terms HW factor like the backlight or panel ofc, but the software presentation.
I could see how its to make the new stuff look better, but it also makes me think the new XR chip might be a downgrade from the X1 Ultimate, the "2020 X1" and now this feels like some general downgrading going on possibly.
Otherwise its that the 80 and 85 series have the same processing as the 90 from last year but all models above that jump up to something better than X1U, so an X90J has the same software presentation as the flagship OLED? I guess they could also just be calling them all XR but they are actually (more) different across models now.
TKOFromTokyo
Member
Why push down the higher end processor when you can essentially manufacture the same tv as last year on the low end models?
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Because you like to occasionally troll like me! Us trolls need to stick together...even if we are opposite sides
Trolling = life
Kuranghi
Member
Whenever people couldn't afford the 90-series/FALD I'd always try to convince them to get the 85 series in 43" instead of 55" to get that sweet VA panel. The highlight brightness and black level didn't compare but the shadow detail on it was so much closer to the 90 (in any size) than the other sizes of the 85 series. So I pitched it as a good compromise.
Downside was worse viewing angles, but the viewing angle on Sony VAs smashes Samsung in the low/mid end as well for some reason (I thought Sony used Samsung VA panels so much be some other reason do to with the stack maybe), I would show people the 43" Samsungs from a 30 degree angle and they'd ask if I "changed the settings" (Since I was a Sony guy) or if it was broken lol. I had 5+ customers tell me they returned Samsung 7470s, they thought it was faulty because the picture was so shite off axis.
Kuranghi
Member
I'm a terrible business man lol, I want everyone to have lovely processing, cost be damned!
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Taken from the link underneath. Also Vincent stated so from contacting Sony himself. But in the Sony Europe video it says VRR+ALLM coming in a future firmware update: (timestamped)
So maybe in the ad they played it safe in case they don't meet the deadline, I guess. Both are somehow correct. Let's wait and see.
GymWolf
good news for you!
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GymWolf
Member
Taken from the link underneath. Also Vincent stated so from contacting Sony himself. But in the Sony Europe video it says VRR+ALLM coming in a future firmware update: (timestamped)
So maybe in the ad they played it safe in case they don't meet the deadline, I guess. Both are somehow correct. Let's wait and see.
why a good news? because i said that sony tv are pricey? i don't care if i have to pay more for a better tv.
And hear me out, i completely forgot that the 2021 series for every brand was being presented during these days, i thought that we were still far and that 2020 series was still fresh in the shelf (the downside of following tv updates only every 3-4 years when i actually have to buy something), so i'm probably gonna skip the 2021 series to aim for the 2022 series with even better hdmi 2.1 implementation...if enthusiastic reviews for 2021 series and me being an easy cunt to hype doesn't get in the way of course...
In theory i have like 1500 euros to spend on the new pc upgrade this year
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TKOFromTokyo
Member
Yeah, I hear you, my guess is they're trying to maximize margins this year until they release miniLED as a stop gap until microLED is ready.
I wish they had miniLED this year as I'm finally ready to buy a 4K tv since my current Panny is 10 years old. I real out need something for my PS5 and motion processing is critical for me.