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[cyberheater]

Really? so you want to restrict it to just honesty in terms of graphical performance? ok, let's completely ignore convictions for anticompetitive practices for now.

Who was it again that compared the power of their upcoming 64 bit console to that of an entire SGI workstation? Was that sony? i don't think it was.

For reference.

Yes. Let's just stick to graphics.

I do remember reading about that in one of the Nintendo magazines but to be honest, at the time. When SM64 was first launched, the graphics were mind-blowing.

I do remember Nintendo being very conservative in terms of the performance of Gamecube stating around 6-12 million lit and textured polys per second. I thought that was a refreshing and realistic number.

 

[Haunted]

PS3 definitely didn't surpass the CGI tech demos when it comes to pure technical aspects like resolution and frame rate. But aesthetically current games beat them by a mile.

And in some departments like facial animation we outright surpassed them, because of better rendering techniques. TLOU and Beyond for example are way less uncanny valley to me then anything Sony showed in 2005:

That guy is the very definition of uncanny valley, even in this tiny resolution .gif.

 

[Manmademan]

It was a GC cutscene in the PS1 game, and a supposedly realtime demo in the PS2 render. The whole point was to make people remember that really cool and complex pre-rendered movie on the PS1, and now the PS2 can do that in realtime.

A lot of the confusion over that one comes from this-

The original PS1 "dance" scene was indeed CG, and of a level of detail the ps2 couldn't hit in it's wildest dreams. This scene was re-created in real time on the Ps2 at much lower quality with a lot less background characters as a demonstration of what the Ps2 could do. Still impressive as a demo mind you, but most people never saw it (it's available online if you want to hunt it down) and assumed it was a 1:1 conversion of the original CGI. It isn't.

 

[ascii42]

Yes. Let's just stick to graphics.

I do remember reading about that in one of the Nintendo magazines but to be honest, at the time. When SM64 was first launched, the graphics were mind-blowing.

I do remember Nintendo being very conservative in terms of the performance of Gamecube stating around 6-12 million lit and textured polys per second. I thought that was a refreshing and realistic number.

Yeah. Nintendo went with more real-world usage when they rated the system, rather than how many straight-up triangles it could render.

 

[FoxSpirit]

I just want this quality for PS4!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVX0OUO9ptU

Yeah a man can dream.
It'll be a long while before we see anything like that.

People are just so blinded by the bad IQ and textures this gen that this seems mindblowing. Coming from the PC side, all I see is an awesome lighting model unlike any we have seen. I hope I am not off with my prediction because the rest looks easily doable, especially on PS4 with the unified GDDR5.

We'll see about Durango and it's Data/Memory Move Engines and Special Sauce *has fingers crossed*

 

[Manmademan]

Yes. Let's just stick to graphics.

I do remember reading about that in one of the Nintendo magazines but to be honest, at the time. When SM64 was first launched, the graphics were mind-blowing.

I do remember Nintendo being very conservative in terms of the performance of Gamecube stating around 6-12 million lit and textured polys per second. I thought that was a refreshing and realistic number.

it wasn't just in magazines, it went on for several years. Nintendo hyped project reality all over the place- in official magazines, newsletters, e3, you name it. with renders the N64 couldn't dream of hitting. We're talking levels of performance somewhere around mid to high end PS2 levels.

In terms of real performance, the n64 has only the barest fraction of the power of an SGI station, and nintendo misled consumers anyway.

edit: here's something fun:

The venture known as Project Reality, will create Nintendo's next generation gaming system and combine three-dimensional graphics of the quality seen in films such as Jurassic Park and Terminator 2, with high- fidelity sound and an interaction speed around 10-15 times faster than the current 16-bit games. The new system will be built around a Silicon Graphics/MIPS Multimedia Engine, a chip consisting of a 64-bit RISC microprocessor, a graphics co-processor chip and Application Specific Integrated Circuits (ASICs).

It is the first time MIPS RISC technology will be used in the video entertainment industry, providing the power previously only available in high-end PCs and workstations. The graphics co-processor and ASICs provide the specialised audio, video and graphics capabilities. Storage will be based on a revolutionary mega-memory silicon-based cartridge format which will allow the system to access a minimum of 100 megabits of data for each game, which is five to six times the memory of the current 16-bit games. The silicon-based cartridge format will have an access time two million times faster than that of current CD-ROM technology, providing a speed video users have so far only been able to dream about.

Taken from "visions" the SGI newsletter.

Yes, nintendo and SGI were going around comparing the N64 to Terminator 2 and Jurassic Park. This is so far off the mark it makes the "toy story" claims for the PS2 look practically realistic.

it might not have occurred to you that GC and beyond era nintendo is a lot more conservative after getting burned badly during the N64 era. Wild claims about system power didn't get them very far at all, so now they just don't say much of anything.

 

[Jedi2016]

In a sense target renders is a good thing. It allows devs to pre-visualize better than concept art. We must get past the notion that developers are trying to make carbon copies of them when we know they can't.

Target renders are good for that purpose, yes. But it's for them, not for us. It's not a good idea to use early internal concepts as marketing material.

The good news this time around is that all of those internal concepts were done a couple years ago. Closer to launch like this, they'll have a better idea of how the system will actually perform (I hope).

I don't expect to be quite so blown away this time. Last time, we got to see things that couldn't be done at all on the previous hardware. This time, we'll be seeing the same sort of things overall, just done a lot better.

 

[Evolution_1ne]

Well with Sony being the most dishonest out of the three. I fully expect to see a huge deluge of CGI 'target renders' and bullshots without Sony admitting to it.

that avatar and quote makes this even more funny

I fully believe in Sony to continue to dish out the butthurt for yet a another generation of gaming

 

[Haunted]

People are just so blinded by the bad IQ and textures this gen that this seems mindblowing. Coming from the PC side, all I see is an awesome lighting model unlike any we have seen. I hope I am not off with my prediction because the rest looks easily doable, especially on PS4 with the unified GDDR5.

Well, there's a significant difference between 8 years of actual technological progression and 8 years of refining techniques to squeeze more out of existing, [now] old hardware. There are a lot of people on GAF still stuck with their console-only view that could've used a wake up call at what's actually technologically possible and feasible in 2012/2013 a while ago.

I guess we'll have to wait until Sony starts showing their stuff before these guys start paying attention and get their minds blown by the stuff we already expect.

 

[dragonbane]

That guy is the very definition of uncanny valley, even in this tiny resolution .gif.

Where do you see it? The only thing that throws me off a little bit are the eyes, but they look better on other characters. So it's probably just unfinished because of pre-alpha. Either way, it doesn't creep me out like the Polar Express or that Molina tech demo from 2005.

Tiny? That's probably the full resolution, only cropped.

Yeah, cropped from the direct feed 720p footage. This is probably as good as it gets. For now at least, the footage is already 8 months old, so who knows how it looks right now.

 

[Metalmurphy]

That guy is the very definition of uncanny valley, even in this tiny resolution .gif.

Tiny? That's probably the full resolution, only cropped.

 

[LightofRohan]

OP, you are comparing different things...

There are Target Videos (prerendered) and Tech Demo's (real time, graphic capabilities). The PS1/PS2 examples are Tech Demo's and the PS3 one are prerendered Target videos (minus MGS4). Target videos are there for the artists/publisher/marketers/consumer to get an idea of how they want the final game to FEEL (helps receive funding), not what it will look graphically (it's prerendered, it's impossible for that time). Tech demo's are there to show people capabilities of the hardware in real time and usually examples of different graphical rt render solutions/tech.

OP should have used the PS3 ducks, MGS4 and the Spiderman tech demo's as the example.

 

[City of Dis]

I would say that the PS2 and the PS3 easily passed every target render presented.

So yes, I am excited for Orbis target renders, because I know the console will surpass them further into its lifetime.

 

[To Far Away Times]

Killzone target CGI vs real thing...

I believe GG trying to hit the target render is at least partially responsible for the severe input lag issues that ruined the game. Too much post processing, too little common sense.

 

[ohlawd]

that avatar and quote makes this even more funny

I fully believe in Sony to continue to dish out the butthurt for yet a another generation of gaming

I like how you ignore his tag. Why talk shit when you don't know what you're talking about? :s

 

[Manmademan]

I like how you ignore his tag. Why talk shit when you don't know what you're talking about? :s

Tags aren't self applied and are frequently ironic. something tells me this one is as well.

 

[gofreak]

Yes. Let's just stick to graphics.

I do remember reading about that in one of the Nintendo magazines but to be honest, at the time. When SM64 was first launched, the graphics were mind-blowing.

I do remember Nintendo being very conservative in terms of the performance of Gamecube stating around 6-12 million lit and textured polys per second. I thought that was a refreshing and realistic number.

Though they simultaneously mixed cg video I to their show reel for GameCube at its reveal - notably Waverace. They haven't since that reveal, afaik, but since then graphics performance hasn't been a primary focus for them, they kind of stepped away from trying to impress in that way altogether.

 

[prwxv3]

I believe GG trying to hit the target render is at least partially responsible for the severe input lag issues that ruined the game. Too much post processing, too little common sense.

wat

 

[cyberheater]

I've got a PS3 as well as all the others.

In truth. I was impressed how close KZ2 came to the target renders. In some ways. PS3 most impressive game.

 

[Manmademan]

Though they simultaneously mixed cg video I to their show reel for GameCube at its reveal - notably Waverace. They haven't since that reveal, afaik, but since then graphics performance hasn't been a primary focus for them, they kind of stepped away from trying to impress in that way altogether.

and now that you mention it, didn't nintendo Get caught passing off 360 and PS3 footage as wii U graphics during e3??

HONESTY!

 

[cyberheater]

Though they simultaneously mixed cg video I to their show reel for GameCube at its reveal - notably Waverace. They haven't since that reveal, afaik, but since then graphics performance hasn't been a primary focus for them, they kind of stepped away from trying to impress in that way altogether.

It's a pity really. They went from being the graphic kings to settle for being in 3rd place.

 

[prwxv3]

and now that you mention it, didn't nintendo Get caught passing off 360 and PS3 footage as wii U graphics during e3??

HONESTY!

To be fair retards tried to say that all that footage looked worse then 360 and PS3 versions of those games even though it was 360 and PS3 footage of those games.

 

[Kinyou]

wat

Killzone 2 had quite the input lag. They improved it with a patch later on.

 

[Melchiah]

I believe GG trying to hit the target render is at least partially responsible for the severe input lag issues that ruined the game. Too much post processing, too little common sense.

Never bothered me while playing, and I played it before the patch.

 

[Erasus]

Heavy Rain blows off that Spiderman tech demo, real game is so much better.

MGS4 ran on more powerful devkits, still pretty close. Other games look way better imo

Motorstorm was not even close, still amazed when I booted that up

 

[Crimsonlink]

To be fair retards tried to say that all that footage looked worse then 360 and PS3 versions of those games even though it was 360 and PS3 footage of those games.

Thats because it was showing off Nintendo games.

 

[Haunted]

Where do you see it? The only thing that throws me off a little bit are the eyes, but they look better on other characters. So it's probably just unfinished because of pre-alpha. Either way, it doesn't creep me out like the Polar Express or that Molina tech demo from 2005.

I think the other two you posted are better. Uncanny valley is in full effect for that one in my eyes. Dead eyes, fake skin, pretty unsettling.

Tiny? That's probably the full resolution, only cropped.

A 450p .gif cropped from 720p? Tiny might've been too much, but that's still a pretty damn low resolution.

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

Even after all these years it's still hilarious to see people downplaying the KZ2 target render.

Helps identifying individuals whose opinion on graphics tech you can safely ignore.

-----------

Regarding MGS4, you can see the difference in quality between the first trailer and the final game comparing these two almost identical cutscenes:

TGS 2005
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaeYAW89a3M&t=368

Final Game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZn8K8K5Cz8&t=227

It's like night and day.

Also, while the trailer was 60fps, the actual game wasn't running so great back then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOCh3YR-JGI

 

[prwxv3]

Killzone 2 had quite the input lag. They improved it with a patch later on.

Yes I know it had input lag. And I actually thought it was a positive part of the game.

 

[Limanima]

Final product Killzone 2 looked better than the CG trailer.

I have to agree with this. The difference is that the trailer is more cinematic, but the game looks better.

 

[Melchiah]

Yes I know it had input lag. And I actually thought it was a positive part of the game.

Same here. Too bad the CoD crowd made them change it for KZ3.

 

[Haunted]

At the very least I hope we can all agree that if the rumours of a 2013 launch are correct, we want to be looking at proper trailers, in-engine cutscenes, ideally actual gameplay instead of target renders and promises that might or might not get fulfilled after a couple years.

 

[Erasus]

Yes I know it had input lag. And I actually thought it was a positive part of the game.

I have to disagree. Input lag (DELAY in controls) is never a positive thing. To me this is the whole "30fps is cinematic" debate... But lets not go there.

 

[FoxSpirit]

Really? so you want to restrict it to just honesty in terms of graphical performance? ok, let's completely ignore convictions for anticompetitive practices for now.

Who was it again that compared the power of their upcoming 64 bit console to that of an entire SGI workstation? Was that sony? i don't think it was.

For reference.

I think this and the dropping of Final Fantasy seriously bummed me about the N64.
They promised SGI levels!! Though I really loved Mario 64 but back then... no Final Fantasy, no buy. FF VII is still a hazy memory of awesome graphics in my mind though by nowadays they are garbage. But back then... oh my.

 

[Kinyou]

Yes I know it had input lag. And I actually thought it was a positive part of the game.

Lucky you. I thought it was terrible.

 

[Norml]

Killzone 2 did a great job and did a bunch of things not shown in the target like decent destruction and the sparks bouncing off everything,the smoke was really neat too because it would move with the wind and get deflected by whatever was in its way.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

God of War Ascension's first 30 mins would've looked impossible back when these PS3 renders were made.

 

[Haunted]

I liked Killzone 2's handling pre-patch much more than Killzone 3's.

A bulkier and heavier feel to movement and aiming was a great fit for the game.

 

[Melchiah]

At the very least I hope we can all agree that if the rumours of a 2013 launch are correct, we want to be looking at proper trailers, in-game cutscenes, ideally actual gameplay and not target renders.

I still want to see tech demos as well. Just make it clear what they are. System announcement without tech demos would be like Final Fantasy without CGI cutscenes.

 

[noobasuar]

Same here. Too bad the CoD crowd made them change it for KZ3.

Input lag being a positive for a game? First I've heard of this nonsense

 

[danclarke]

How many people singing the praises of the Killzone target render are actually going back to watch it now?

 

[CLEEK]

I will always remember seeing the Killzone 2 E3 reveal for the first time. Up until that moment, I had no idea what I should be expecting from the next generation of console. What I saw blew my mind. I didn't think anything like that would ever be possible.

In the following days/weeks and it became know it was just pre-rendered CGI, I set my hopes back down to lower levels. But then the in-engine MGS4 footage looked mind boggling incredible too.

 

[Melchiah]

Input lag being a positive for a game? First I've heard of this nonsense

Have you actually played the game? It added weight to the movement.

 

[dragonbane]

I think the other two you posted are better. Uncanny valley is in full effect for that one in my eyes. Dead eyes, fake skin, pretty unsettling.

I see. The last one is from Beyond too, so I hope they reach the same level of quality across all characters.

 

[Salacious Crumb]

Same here. Too bad the CoD crowd made them change it for KZ3.

What is this?

 

[Haunted]

God of War Ascension's first 30 mins would've looked impossible back when these PS3 renders were made.

8 years!

Mortal Kombat II vs the Wind Waker
Silent Hill 1 vs Crysis

I realise we're entering the realm of diminishing returns, but still. That is a significant timespan in this industry.

 

[Manmademan]

8 years!

Mortal Kombat II vs the Wind Waker
Silent Hill 1 vs Crysis

ouch. when you put it like that it makes me feel REALLY old.

 

[chrislowe]

Taken from "visions" the SGI newsletter.

Yes, nintendo and SGI were going around comparing the N64 to Terminator 2 and Jurassic Park. This is so far off the mark it makes the "toy story" claims for the PS2 look practically realistic.

it might not have occurred to you that GC and beyond era nintendo is a lot more conservative after getting burned badly during the N64 era. Wild claims about system power didn't get them very far at all, so now they just don't say much of anything.

I still have a magazine with screenshots of how Mario Ultra would look.
And it wasnt anything close to what came out from Nintendo later

 

[Insane Metal]

Even after all these years it's still hilarious to see people downplaying the KZ2 target render.

Helps identifying individuals whose opinion on graphics tech you can safely ignore.

-----------

Regarding MGS4, you can see the difference in quality between the first trailer and the final game comparing these two almost identical cutscenes:

TGS 2005
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaeYAW89a3M&t=368

Final Game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZn8K8K5Cz8&t=227

It's like night and day.

Also, while the trailer was 60fps, the actual game wasn't running so great back then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOCh3YR-JGI

Yes, I remember I got chills when I saw that TGS trailer, then when I saw the final game running I was like "WTF happened?"

 

[Melchiah]

8 years!

Mortal Kombat II vs the Wind Waker
Silent Hill 1 vs Crysis

Different platforms.