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[Manmademan]

You think this is still PS3? there's been no word of it, and I don't know if it is or isn't but this HAS to be a candidate for generation shift. Amazing technical show piece that isn't expected to sell more than a couple million? Please, it has PS4 written all over it IMO.

It's confirmed as a 2013 release, and there are significantly more PS3s in the wild than sony can hope to sell PS4s no matter when they release them.

The only question is if the PS3 can actually handle the game- and from what we've seen of TLOU, it definitely can.

 

[JaseMath]

You think this is still PS3? there's been no word of it, and I don't know if it is or isn't but this HAS to be a candidate for generation shift. Amazing technical show piece that isn't expected to sell more than a couple million? Please, it has PS4 written all over it IMO.

Got to agree. Same with The Last Guardian.

 

[Manmademan]

Got to agree. Same with The Last Guardian.

TLG is a different story. we don't have 1/100th of the footage of that that we do of Beyond, and it's been delayed over and over for years. The only other game in the same boat is Versus XIII, and that was "unofficially" confirmed as being a next gen game by a gaf poster claiming inside knowledge.

 

[Loudninja]

Umm Beyond is a PS3 game.

 

[Perkel]

Umm Beyond is a PS3 game.

Yeah if it was next gen we would see that clearly. (problems with fps)

 

[dragonflys545]

Good times

Lmao this was the funniest shit ever.

 

[Manmademan]

Yeah if it was next gen we would see that clearly. (problems with fps)

there's always the small chance it could be a cross gen ps3/ps4 game- but I wouldn't put any money on it. Again, there's a LOT of gameplay footage of Beyond, and its clearly within the limits of what the ps3 can do. It's not in the same league as star wars 1313 or whatever.

 

[RoboPlato]

Umm Beyond is a PS3 game.

Yeah, I heard rumors that it's coming around June or so. I'm sure we'll get a new trailer or a release date at the Feb conference before the PS4 news. It looks great but that gif of an offscreen video is hugely misleading.

 

[Seep]

Motorstorm and Killzone were not reached, not even close. Although the latter and 3 are fantastic looking games probably the best looking console games I've played for gfx on any system.

And what's with some people liking the sluggish controls of 2, delayed reactions are adding weight to your character? In what bizarro world would control lag be a positive?

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

Motorstorm, actually. That game doesn't look anything like it's target render, but it's the outlier.

KZ2 and KZ3 are close enough to the target render that it's effectively considered a hit goal. the animation is better in the CGI trailer, but the lighting and textures in the actual games is better, etc and so on.

No.

multiplayer.

Sprites vs voumetric particles. Not even close.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Looks the same as an all standard GT5 race but with all the extras. Polyphony didn't hit that target.

I worry for your eyesight. Get it checked asap.

 

[ZaCH3000]

Motorstorm and Killzone were not reached, not even close. Although the latter and 3 are fantastic looking games probably the best looking console games I've played for gfx on any system.

And what's with some people liking the sluggish controls of 2, delayed reactions are adding weight to your character? In what bizarro world would control lag be a positive?

If you didn't like the controls of Killzone2 its probably because you relied too heavily on the sights. The sights were practically useless for any short to medium range shot. I liked the change. First-person shooters should make iron sights less effective from short to medium ranges next gen, in my opinion.

 

[meta4]

multiplayer.

Bows down to Helghan. KZ2 multi was God tier.

 

[CLEEK]

Well with Sony being the most dishonest out of the three. I fully expect to see a huge deluge of CGI 'target renders' and bullshots without Sony admitting to it.

The Kinect E3 reveal bollocks is by far the biggest sham in all of gaming. It's amazing how little that burned itself into gamer's collective psyches compared with the Sony lies.

 

[Manmademan]

The Kinect E3 reveal bollocks is by far the biggest sham in all of gaming. It's amazing how little that burned itself into gamer's collective psyches compared with the Sony lies.

Really, they all do things like this. it's business. pretending one or the other is "more honest!" is foolishness.

Sony does shitty things when they can get away with it.
Microsoft does shitty things when they can get away with it.
Nintendo does shitty things when they can get away with it.

Of the three though, I NEVER want to go back to the era where nintendo dominated the market i.e. the NES. That was just...terrible.

 

[CLEEK]

No.

There are sections in KZ2 and KZ3 that are more impressive than the render. As everyone is saying, the games don't match parts of the render (animation being the big one, even though the games are hardly lacking in that area).

The battle with the Mawlr at the end of Killzone 3 is the single most impressive thing I've witnessed this gen. The lighting and particle effects in particular are in far excess of the KZ2 render.

 

[Norml]

No.



Sprites vs voumetric particles. Not even close.

I don't care what techniques it used.In the end, it's close enough to the CG and only hardcore graphics people can spot major differences.

 

[JJD]

TLG is a different story. we don't have 1/100th of the footage of that that we do of Beyond, and it's been delayed over and over for years. The only other game in the same boat is Versus XIII, and that was "unofficially" confirmed as being a next gen game by a gaf poster claiming inside knowledge.

Wat??? Link please?

 

[Manmademan]

Wat??? Link please?

It was in one of the Orbis hardware threads. I'm too tired to dig it up. Guy seemed pretty confident about it too. said it was definitely undergoing a name change (it will not have XIII in the title) and is definitely next gen. it's also been downgraded to "exclusive...sort of."

make of that what you will. I don't know the guy, can't vouch for him- but there you go.

 

[Plumpman]

KZ2 multi was God tier.

This.

The Motorstorm CGI was a pretty big exception, but I do think most of the target renders were met with some compromises of course.

 

[seattle6418]

That demo was a quick and dirty GT2 port job. The Gran Turismo PS2 tech demo was never matched and GT5 didn't hit Vision's target. Also both Prologues featured higher res textures and better shadowing than the finished games.


Whatever Polyphony show for GT6 on PS4 we won't get it.

No, no no, vision could have alluded to more cars on track, more crew members on the pit, but it was upscaled GT4. GT5 is better than Vision in every single way.

Also, to suggest that prologue looks better than GT5 is crazy.

You are exaggerating things here.

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

I don't care what techniques it used.In the end, it's close enough to the CG and only hardcore graphics people can spot major differences.

Just because you can't spot the differences doesn't mean they're close.

 

[staticneuron]

Sprites vs voumetric particles. Not even close.

Killzone 2 and 3 actually did have volumetric particles. You can even download the demo, toss some grenades and see how the smoke reacts to the wind.

EDIT: Video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6kdLNGncNI

GG's presentation on SPU usage (including specs on particle simulations)

http://www.guerrilla-games.com/presentations/GDC09-vanderLeeuw-KZ2SPUsCaseStudy.pdf

 

[Manmademan]

Killzone 2 and 3 actually did have volumetric particles. You can even download the demo, toss some grenades and see how the smoke reacts to the wind.

EDIT: Video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6kdLNGncNI

GG's presentation on SPU usage (including specs on particle simulations)

http://www.guerrilla-games.com/presentations/GDC09-vanderLeeuw-KZ2SPUsCaseStudy.pdf

wooo that's some ownage right there. But I guess just because he couldn't tell the difference between sprites and volumetric particles doesn't mean it's not close, right?

 

[Sheroking]

.... The improvements in art definitely make the games more appealing than the renders, but I'm not on-board with the idea that ANY of those "target renders" were matched by in-game play on any of those systems on any technical level whatsoever.

 

[rvy]

Also, to suggest that prologue looks better than GT5 is crazy.

Some stuff does, but GT5 is doing a lot more.

http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=142051

 

[Melchiah]

Got my PSX in may 98 as well and remember that dino tech demo. That thing is creepy.

Brofist. Speaking of dinos, I remember being spooked by the first T-Rex encounter in Tomb Raider.

 

[Norml]

Just because you can't spot the differences doesn't mean they're close.

I can spot them,but I also realize I'm comparing with CG.

Spoiler

nitpick

 

[Spongebob]

Wat??? Link please?

Don't worry about it, that guy is/was full of shit.

 

[famfrit]

Final product Killzone 2 looked better than the CG trailer.

No.

 

[Manmademan]

Don't worry about it, that guy is/was full of shit.

take these things with many grains of salt. I wouldn't be surprised if it was accurate though- lightning returns is this year, and since two FF games in a year is not happening, it would be 2014 at the earliest before that game shows up- and no one has seen footage of it in a couple of years.

releasing it as a PS3 game in 2014 means it gets crushed badly by flashier games, as FF9 did. no way square does that twice, especially as long as this one's been in development.

 

[famfrit]

Really, they all do things like this. it's business. pretending one or the other is "more honest!" is foolishness.

Sony does shitty things when they can get away with it.
Microsoft does shitty things when they can get away with it.
Nintendo does shitty things when they can get away with it.

Of the three though, I NEVER want to go back to the era where nintendo dominated the market i.e. the WII. That was just...terrible.

I corrected for you.

 

[JJD]

It was in one of the Orbis hardware threads. I'm too tired to dig it up. Guy seemed pretty confident about it too. said it was definitely undergoing a name change (it will not have XIII in the title) and is definitely next gen. it's also been downgraded to "exclusive...sort of."

make of that what you will. I don't know the guy, can't vouch for him- but there you go.

Thanks for the info bro!

wooo that's some ownage right there. But I guess just because he couldn't tell the difference between sprites and volumetric particles doesn't mean it's not close, right?

Man this thread premise has been proven false from the very first post...and people are still arguing! It's amazing how people can turn a blind eye from shit companies that they favor pull.

Console wars, there is no one innocent on that battle! Lol!

 

[Manmademan]

I corrected for you.

ah, are you new? you must be. Let me clear this up for you.

The market in the NES era was something like 75 million NES consoles and 15 million master systems- at best. (the master system kept selling in brazil until 2009, skewing it's numbers).
nintendo controlled over 80% of the market, and in reality the numbers were probably higher since again- the master system's numbers are inflated a bit.

The market currently is 100 million Wii systems, 70 million PS3's, and 70 million Xboxes. Nintendo controls about 40% of the market- and the wii is basically dead. The ps3 (and presumably the 360) will continue to be supported for several years. We'll probably see that marketshare drop to 30-35% after it's all said and done.

nintendo isn't anywhere CLOSE to the market dominance they used to have. Most gamers do not own wiis.

edit:

and in case you think I'm nintendo bashing just to bash, I'm not. Market conditions were terrible. Third parties were limited in output per year, per studio. Nintendo was found guilty of price fixing consoles to keep prices artificially high. Third parties were strongarmed into exclusivity agreements to prevent games from being released on competing systems. Censorship was rampant, and content deemed offensive was removed at nintendo's orders on a regular basis. this could be blood, crosses, questionable language, dogs instead of rats, etc. The makers of maniac mansion had a VERY eye opening article on the entire process. here it is.

i'm enjoyed my NES, but I'm not a fan of the way ninty did business back then.

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

I worry for your eyesight. Get it checked asap.

 

[famfrit]

ah, are you new? you must be. Let me clear this up for you.

The market in the NES era was something like 75 million NES consoles and 15 million master systems- at best. (the master system kept selling in brazil until 2009, skewing it's numbers).
nintendo controlled over 80% of the market, and in reality the numbers were probably higher since again- the master system's numbers are inflated a bit.

The market currently is 100 million Wii systems, 70 million PS3's, and 70 million Xboxes. Nintendo controls about 40% of the market- and the wii is basically dead. The ps3 (and presumably the 360) will continue to be supported for several years. We'll probably see that marketshare drop to 30-35% after it's all said and done.

nintendo isn't anywhere CLOSE to the market dominance they used to have. Most gamers do not own wiis.

You're right, i tried to be funny.

By the way, Nes era generated a great number of good franchises, dragon, FF, etc. I cant say that i don't want to see a new Nes generation, because i want the majority of good games and new franchises in only one console again like in Nes and PS2.

Remember pal, gamers want games (the most and better in one console) and marketing share idea are for business man of Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft.

The point is that Nintendo created a monster with its new control and this affected the whole market to the point to force Sony and microsoft to enter in this casual gamers hunt. I dont liked that, because they wasted resources with casual gaming that they could used to create new franchises to core gamers...

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

Killzone 2 and 3 actually did have volumetric particles. You can even download the demo, toss some grenades and see how the smoke reacts to the wind.

EDIT: Video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6kdLNGncNI

Newsflash: sprites CAN react to wind simulations. Just take a look at any Crysis game.

GG's presentation on SPU usage (including specs on particle simulations)

http://www.guerrilla-games.com/presentations/GDC09-vanderLeeuw-KZ2SPUsCaseStudy.pdf

That says nothing about volumetric particles.

 

[CLEEK]

nintendo isn't anywhere CLOSE to the market dominance they used to have.

Nintendo have always been two companies in one. The good half produces the most magical, lovely, enjoyable videogames in the world. The other evil half commits anti-consumer crimes and price fixing.

Nintendo are the recipient for the EU's biggest ever anti-trust fine for anti competitive market fixing during the NES, SNES and N64 era. Showcasing a new console with a CGI target renders hardly compares to the evils of actual illegal price fixing.

Sony are a different company compare to the dawn of the PS3. Completely different exec team, different market shares and in a completely different financial position. They need to win over consumers again.

MS have the most scope for arsehole behaviour this time around, seeing as they're on an upwards curve of market share and popularity. MS have a history is being utter cunts when they dominate market share (see EU and US anti-trust rulings). I see no reason why the true MS won't appear in the gaming world if the Xbox brand continues to gain momentum and market share.

So Nintendo abused their market leading position the most. Sony's arrogance came back to bite them in the ass. MS have past history to suggest if they dominate, they'll be worse for the industry and consumers than Nintendo or Sony ever were.

 

[Manmademan]

You're right, i tried to be funny.

By the way, Nes era generated a great number of good franchises, dragon, FF, etc. I cant say that i don't want to see a new Nes generation, because i want the majority of good games and new franchises in only one console again like in Nes and PS2.

Remember pal, gamers want games (the most and better in one console) and marketing share idea are for business man of Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft.

see the above edit as to WHY I found the NES era disagreeable. having one console maker with an 80+% market share led to abuse. Nintendo restricted game output and content, even on other systems. It's not a good situation to be in.

One of the reasons the PS1 took off was because Sony's paid attention to the state of the industry, and offered third party practices that were SO MUCH BETTER than nintendo's that third parties jumped ship en masse. There are other reasons of course (marketing, flashy cgi, pricing) but the huge amount of third party support can't be overlooked.

PS2 era sony wasn't QUITE as dominant as nintendo had been during the nes era (they had maybe...70% of the market, roughly) but at least they had healthy competition to keep them honest. i'm not sure I'd trust sony with complete dominance of the market either- other segments of that company have done some fairly questionable things re: proprietary formats that I'm not fond of.

Nintendo have always been two companies in one. The good half produces the most magical, lovely, enjoyable videogames in the world. The other evil half commits anti-consumer crimes and price fixing.

Nintendo are the recipient for the EU's biggest ever anti-trust fine for market fixing. Showcasing a new console with a CGI target renders hardly compares to the evils of actual illegal price fixing.

Sony are a different company compare to the dawn of the PS3. Completely different exec team, different market shares and in a completely different financial position. They need to win over consumers again.

MS have the most scope for arsehole behaviour this time around, seeing as they're on an upwards curve of market share and popularity. MS have a history is being utter cunts when they dominate market share (see EU and US anti-trust rulings). I see no reason why the true MS won't appear in the gaming world if the Xbox brand continues to gain momentum and market share.

So Nintendo abused their market leading position the most. Sony's arrogance came back to bite them in the ass. MS have past history to suggest if they dominate, they'll be worse for the industry and consumers than Nintendo or Sony ever were.

This is sort of what I'm getting at. even the best companies tend to go corrupt when they're in TOO favorable of a position. Hell, look what happened to apple. it used to be that they were the consumer friendly upstart, and microsoft was the evil empire. Now microsoft is the one looking reasonable and consumer friendly, and apple is the evil empire. Healthy competition in a space is always, ALWAYS preferable to one company with lopsided dominance.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Final product Killzone 2 looked better than the CG trailer.

What crack are you smoking, and can I have some?

 

[famfrit]

see the above edit as to WHY I found the NES era disagreeable. having one console maker with an 80+% market share led to abuse. Nintendo restricted game output and content, even on other systems. It's not a good situation to be in.

One of the reasons the PS1 took off was because Sony's paid attention to the state of the industry, and offered third party practices that were SO MUCH BETTER than nintendo's that third parties jumped ship en masse. There are other reasons of course (marketing, flashy cgi, pricing) but the huge amount of third party support can't be overlooked.

PS2 era sony wasn't QUITE as dominant as nintendo had been during the nes era (they had maybe...70% of the market, roughly) but at least they had healthy competition to keep them honest. i'm not sure I'd trust sony with complete dominance of the market either- other segments of that company have done some fairly questionable things re: proprietary formats that I'm not fond of.

Okay, i'm fine with your point. But i really will not hate a new Nes era, really. C'mon Nintendo buy Sony and you will have nearly monopoly of console marketing share /trollface.

By the way, 3DS era is the same situation of Nes, no. Vita cant survive with the lack of system sellers, specially monster hunter...

The only real problem with Nintendo, for me, is lack o power in their consoles, but if they give me a Persona 5 in cell shading i will be fine.

 

[TUROK]

The battle with the Mawlr at the end of Killzone 3 is the single most impressive thing I've witnessed this gen. The lighting and particle effects in particular are in far excess of the KZ2 render.

Yeah, with like 1/8th resolution sprite particle buffers, vs actual volumetric particles.

 

[FordGTGuy]

GT5 setting standards now that's funny.

I would have rather GT5 had 100 more premium cars and no standard cars at all.

For that matter I would have rather GT5 with 600+ Forza quality cars than what they had.

 

[SolidSnakex]

GT5 setting standards now that's funny.

[IG]http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa194/FordGTGuy/gt5_03.jpg[/IMG]
[MG]http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa194/FordGTGuy/GT5GT40StandardDamaged-2.jpg[/IMG]

I would have rather GT5 had 100 more premium cars and no standard cars at all.

For that matter I would have rather GT5 with 600+ Forza quality cars than what they had.

Going by GT5's sales it would appear that most people really didn't give a shit. In the end they both premium and standard cars were operating under the same physics engine, which is what's most important.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Going by GT5's sales it would appear that most people really didn't give a shit. In the end they both premium and standard cars were operating under the same physics engine, which is what's most important.

Are you really defending what Polyphony did because of the sales they made? I thought it was perfectly clear that the sales of GT5 were artificially pushed up by the very long development time and popularity of the previous Gran Turismo games. I've heard many people in the racing game community say they were disappointed by GT5 and will not be buying another Gran Turismo game unless Polyphony doesn't repeat the same mistake in GT6.

Polyphony deserves to be blasted for what they did with Gran Turismo, just like Turn 10 should be blasted for removing Rally Di Positano from Forza 4.

I'm sorry but I don't care if they were running under the same physics engine that is not a good excuse for sounding like a vacuum cleaner and looking down right unacceptable, it's funny how Polyphony is able to get by without a single remark but if any other racing game studio did this there would be hell to pay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2juZOaPfAE

When a company can create Forza 4 in two years and it took you 6-7+ years to make GT5 you should be embarrassed.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Are you really defending what Polyphony did because of the sales they made? I though it was perfectly clear that the sales of GT5 were artificially pushed up by the very long development time and popularity of the previous Gran Turismo games.

Polyphony deserves to be blasted for what they did with Gran Turismo, just like Turn 10 should be blasted for removing Rally Di Positano from Forza 4.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Duke Nukem was once very popular and it had a much longer development cycle than GT5, yet look at how it sold. Everyone would prefer to have 1,000 premium models, but that just isn't going to happen. At least not at the moment. The standard models did their job. Many fans seemed to get over the fact that they didn't look nearly as good as the premiums shortly after the game launched. If you look in GT threads you'll find many people that get upset over the idea of entirely moving standard models from future games if there isn't a premium model to replace it.

 

[Fafalada]

That demo was a quick and dirty GT2 port job. The Gran Turismo PS2 tech demo was never matched and GT5 didn't hit Vision's target. Also both Prologues featured higher res textures and better shadowing than the finished games.

There were two PS2 "GT2000" demos - Night Track, and Seattle. Both ran with PS1 track-assets (including textures) and some early very unfinished looking version of PS2 cars (as you note, most assets were straight from GT2). Both were playable, running on early PS2 hw-prototypes (underclocked).
There were no other demos (and if people imagined something else, you can hardly blame PD for that).

 

[iceatcs]

Polyphony is quite small when they doing GT5.
After GT5, they should have 3 teams with 2 studios (but only 140+) - will see for GT6.

 

[Ran rp]

honestly this looks better than any of the ps3 target render trailers.

Favorite .gif of the generation.

 

[Gadirok]

Bows down to Helghan. KZ2 multi is God tier.

Fixed.

I'm going through this now, and its a blast. Didn't expect it to be so fun. I'm glad I got rid of my copy of black ops 2 for the killzone trilogy.