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[nominedomine]

This is GP data we are talking about, are you following this OK? They certainly don't have any data on that.

It's public data, even I know how many subscribers they had. They announced 25m just the other day.

 

[nikolino840]

I'm kind of looking forward to that a bit on the MS side, honestly. Tango Gameworks said they're looking into making smaller titles that are more experimental since they're not bound by the traditional retail model anymore. Decreasing AAA graphics bloat and making more AA content is honestly going to be more appealing to me. Seems Obsidian is trying something similar with the rumored "one game a year" plan. I'm hoping Call of Duty studios get to slow down and maybe even try smaller, more experimental titles if that deal goes through.

Sony can keep doing what they're doing and that's fine with me. No one else is really putting out these cinematic AAAA games but them. I like it when all 3 consoles have some differences as it keeps things more interesting.

Ghosttwire Is an Aaa?

 

[Markio128]

 

[Roxkis_ii]

They don't have to do it, but why say anything when they have no idea how it would impact AAA game budgets?

Common sense?

 

[Punished Miku]

Ghosttwire Is an Aaa?

I havent played it. But I'd say probably no.

 

[Moonjt9]

Smart man. Literally just look at Netflix

 

[SLB1904]

They know that Microsoft has decreased game budgets since GP's inception? This is what this thread is all about pal, not how many Xbox or PS have been sold more nonsense from the usual ones

That's just an example on how they know what's going on between them. I know none of you can't even argue with me, now you are reaching.
At no moment Sony said anything about ms budgets plan, they were talking about themselves and their business plans. They said if they put their games on subscription service THEIR games will have to cut costs. THEIR.

 

[Aguero9320]

Thread is funny. When a company as big and successful as Microsoft goes balls deep into something, only a fool dismisses it. They aren't flawless, and have made some big mistakes over the years, but the subscription model has been hugely successful for them in other areas, so they understand it better than (I'd guess) anyone on here, and better than the Sony exec. They are more successful now than at any point in their history, and it's built almost entirely on subs and services. You don't think they've thought about the potential drawbacks being raised here?

I had my 'skeptical of subscription' moment years ago - I thought streaming video was a joke and would never take off. Can't remember the last time I bought a film or even saw a disc now. Same with music. Games will be exactly the same.

I don't have a dog in the fight, but watching with interest. If I was a rabid Sony fanboy I'd post like many on this thread, but also feel a little apprehensive about what the medium to long term future looks like.

 

[KyoZz]

The real question is: does Sony need something like GamePass? And I think the response is no.
They are very successful and let's be serious a minute, if Microsoft is doing what they are doing, it is because they are the underdog and they need to appeal to a maximum of people.
Sony on the other hand is leading the market, constantly releasing games acclaimed by the players and critics. Sony's PS4 output is (was) incredible. Time will tel for the PS5 but they are on a very good start too.

As for "game quality 'will deteriorate' if it adopts Game Pass-style strategy", I have to disagree with him.
Ok GAF don't flame me, now that's just my personal opinion:
Quality is NOT related to how much money you put in a project, or Anthem would be an amazing game for example.
Now I can understand that games like The Last of Us II, Uncharted 4 or Spider-Man are big investments but it doesn't mean those are good games by default. And imo Sony is hit or miss.

Uncharted 4 is beautiful but the story is meh at best. Currently playing TLOUII and same, it is looking incredible but as soon as they start to talk about "rate our kiss from 1 to 10", I'm sorry but it's bad writing.
Spider-Man start to be good at 70% of the game, when you finally fight a few boss. Miles Morales is boring and cliché.

Most Sony games are 12 to 15/20. They're not bad games at all, but they all have something that prevents them from being true masterpieces. Most of the time it's the writing.
I know it is the most difficult part, and I'm really glad Sony is still releasing single player games of this caliber and I'm gladly buying every new exclusives, I just hope they improve on that part.
Special mention for God of War and Ghost of Tsushima that I really enjoyed.

So yeah keep those big investissements, but also focus on smaller, riskier project too (like Returnal). Nothing prevent you from doing a SonyPlayPass.

 

[Negotiator101]

It's public data, even I know how many subscribers they had. They announced 25m just the other day.

Are you deliberately missing the point? Has GP affected Microsoft game budgets negatively since it released? Only Microsoft knows that, I'd say it doesn't seem like it has. Sony made a comment that is at best an educated guess, they couldn't say GP is a great platform as they are not doing an equivalent.

Common sense?

Really? More like feeding the fanboys some rubbish about why they are paying $70 for a game.

 

[DeepEnigma]

At no moment Sony said anything about ms budgets plan, they were talking about themselves and their business plans. They said if they put their games on subscription service THEIR games will have to cut costs. THEIR.

 

[Calverz]

I would expect them to change their business model then within next 10 years. Simply putting their fingers in their ears and hoping all this goes away is not going to work. They have been forced to adapt and their new PlayStation pass service is evidence of this.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Really? More like feeding the fanboys some rubbish about why they are paying $70 for a game.

Yep. The non-PR version of the answer would be something like "we want to make $70 per game and for us it's too risky to switch to a Gamepass model because who knows how it would turn out and we don't have endless money so we're sticking with the old model for now".

 

[nikolino840]

Smart man. Literally just look at Netflix

Ok but i think in the QY Sony earn more Money then Netflix Just with the PlayStation division... Nothing stop to develop a game and put It in a sub. service ... The Money to produce the game was already used and Is the same...
Example Ragnarok..the game Is almost finished ... How can ragnorok being a smaller game if Sony put it in the Spartacus? The game Is already made

 

[DeepEnigma]

Ok but i think in the QY Sony earn more Money then Netflix Just with the PlayStation division... Nothing stop to develop a game and put It in a sub. service ... The Money to produce the game was already used and Is the same...
Example Ragnarok..the game Is almost finished ... How can ragnorok being a smaller game if Sony put it in the Spartacus? The game Is already made

That comes down to ROI.

 

[BennyBlanco]

They should make some of their own smaller games and throw them on the service day 1. Not everything has to be a huge AAA graphics showpiece. Let small teams from their big studios get creative.

 

[yurinka]

You are missing the point of my post. Nobody knows those numbers outside of Microsoft so your "obvious" comment is incorrect. Microsoft are happy with how GP is performing, customers are happy, I've seen no perceptual decrease in quality from Microsoft games. So I ask what is so obvious about this statement from Sony?

The difference is that Sony wants to keep a profitable, growing and self sustainable gaming business.

MS doesn't care about having huge loses with their gaming division because they can afford them thanks to the profits from other divisions. So MS, being 3rd in the market decided to spend almost $100B on acquisitions and almost give away their AAA games day one to increase their market share as a desperate move to get attention. This means billions in loses per year wihle Sony has billions in profit. Why Sony would want that?

Without needing to spend $100B on acquisitions or give away their games, Sony is already the market leader in consoles and game subscriptions, and is growing in all areas, so they don't need to make such financially suicidal (for them, not for the MS corporation) move. Sony's strategy has a better performance for for the gaming division and their game subs, so no need to a worse one.

They should make some of their own smaller games and throw them on the service day 1. Not everything has to be a huge AAA graphics showpiece. Let small teams from their big studios get creative.

Not exactly this, but from time to time they have some AA or indie day one on Plus or Now (now merged) and now they'll have the demos for any new 1st and 3rd party AAA ame. Plus seems that at least some of their (full) games will be included faster to the service. So I think they will have that better covered now.

I like the idea of throwing on top of that the small games. Maybe instead of being totally different smaller games, they could be a very short standalone DLC of their big AAA games, so they could reuse a lot of stuff. Something like a short prologue to release it months before the big AAA game, or to release after the big game a short spinoff story to further develop some secondary character or something like that.

Example: in TLOU2 the game could have ended in the farm and the last Ellie trip to chase Abby would have included in that standalone DLC included day one on PS+. Or some Abby or Ellie flashbacks could have moved to a standalone prologue released before the game available day one on PS+, also acting as promotion of the game.

 

[nikolino840]

That comes down to ROI.

Nope.. find a quote about ROI and not the Money needed to produce the game

 

[SLB1904]

Are you deliberately missing the point? Has GP affected Microsoft game budgets negatively since it released? Only Microsoft knows that, I'd say it doesn't seem like it has. Sony made a comment that is at best an educated guess, they couldn't say GP is a great platform as they are not doing an equivalent.

Really? More like feeding the fanboys some rubbish about why they are paying $70 for a game.

I'll will pay $70 for any game I like. Its my money I worked for it. Games are a luxury not a necessity. 15 years ago I used to import games for a $100 each. 70 feels like a bargain for me today. And having said that only a fool will pay 70 when you can get psn cards for £40.
So stop acting like paying 70 is the only option people have.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Nope.. find a quote about ROI and not the Money needed to produce the game

If a game is already complete as you said, them not putting it on there day one when it launches comes down to the ROI they want to achieve.

This isn't really that hard. You are arguing two different scenarios.

 

[SLB1904]

Yep. The non-PR version of the answer would be something like "we want to make $70 per game and for us it's too risky to switch to a Gamepass model because who knows how it would turn out and we don't have endless money so we're sticking with the old model for now".

I'm still waiting for your reasoning on how layden maths don't add up.

 

[nikolino840]

If a game is already complete as you said, them not putting it on there day one when it launches comes down to the ROI they want to achieve.

This isn't really that hard. You are arguing tuo different scenarios..

So all this "if you put in a sub. we have to make smaller games" Is Just PR? Why not say "we have fear of lower ROI? "

 

[Aguero9320]

So MS, being 3rd in the market decided to spend almost $100B on acquisitions and almost give away their AAA games day one to increase their market share as a desperate move to get attention.

This is just your spin. Companies the size of Microsoft are never 'desperate' - that's just fanboy nonsense.

If you remove the 'almost give away their AAA games day one' and 'a desperate move to get attention' parts of your sentence you sound less like a lunatic though, and I wouldn't disagree. They have invested to gain market share, yes. Legitimate business practice, and usually successful. They aren't giving anything away though, just selling under a different model. I don't understand the resistance to it tbh, it's great for the customers (us). I don't buy the pearl clutching over the 'future of the industry' either. Massive companies battling it out and investing unprecedented sums in our pastime is cause for celebration. Industry has never been healthier, or had a brighter future. Closer to mainstream than it's ever been, and I'm cheering on those trying to push it over the line.

 

[THE DUCK]

It makes sense to be concerned about it, but they act like the online service would suddenly kill 100% of physical and digital store sales, which is totally not true. And if it did end up at that level, they would have HUGE numbers of subs, therefore giving them the revenue they need.
They fear change, but it's that fear that may lose them tons of customers long term.

 

[DangerDiabolik]

I mean both business models are viable. Sony just can't invest in the kind of growth MS are shooting for. Doesn't mean either way is wrong for those respective companies.

If Game Pass meant smaller budget games, MS wouldn't have bought Bethesda. Whatever you think of them, the Starfields and Elder Scrolls of the world are huge budget, huge scale games that take a lot of time to make. It's a sharp contrast to the whole "everything on Game Pass is AA or GAAS" nonsense.

 

[DeepEnigma]

So all this "if you put in a sub. we have to make smaller games" Is Just PR? Why not say "we have fear of lower ROI? "

 

[SLB1904]

So all this "if you put in a sub. we have to make smaller games" Is Just PR? Why not say "we have fear of lower ROI? "

I really depends. If you read shawn quote, he was obviously talking about big triple AAA games. I'm pretty reasonable budget games would be suitable for the service. But another thing you need to take in consideration is the "customers buying habits" (its type of consumer behaviour). If you start putting your games day and date on the service people will change the way they consume games.

That's actually a scientific fact.

 

[TheGodfather07]

The traditional model works for sony and Nintendo. They don't have the money to experiment like Microsoft does. If it goes wrong for them, they could be in trouble. Microsoft doesn't have to worry about these things. They could lose billions and it wouldn't matter at all. Sony and Nintendo are shackled in this way. Makes it more impressive how dominant and big their brands are when they have such a big disadvantage like that.

 

[nikolino840]

Well tell me a reason that Is true that Is impossibile to make a big budget game and put It in a sub. service... Nothing stop Sony to do both ...

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The traditional model works for sony and Nintendo. They don't have the money to experiment like Microsoft does. If it goes wrong for them, they could be in trouble. Microsoft doesn't have to worry about these things. They could lose billions and it wouldn't matter at all. Sony and Nintendo are shackled in this way. Makes it more impressive how dominant and big their brands are when they have such a big disadvantage like that.

Sony made $12B profit last year (I think game division was $3-4B) and Nintendo almost $5B. They arent exactly broke.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I mean both business models are viable. Sony just can't invest in the kind of growth MS are shooting for. Doesn't mean either way is wrong for those respective companies.

If Game Pass meant smaller budget games, MS wouldn't have bought Bethesda. Whatever you think of them, the Starfields and Elder Scrolls of the world are huge budget, huge scale games that take a lot of time to make. It's a sharp contrast to the whole "everything on Game Pass is AA or GAAS" nonsense.

We'll see how long games of the scale of Starfield and Elder Scrolls continue to come to Game Pass Day 1 at its current price if the sub-base isn't consistent enough.

There is a huge challenge to keep people on these subs and keep their expectations in check and to keep the price the same or similar... It's a rough model.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Well tell me a reason that Is true that Is impossibile to make a big budget game and put It in a sub. service... Nothing stop Sony to do both ...

The game is not going on there day one in their current gaming business model (that we know of at this time). They will get their ROI and then some selling software.

 

[SLB1904]

Sony made $12B profit last year (I think game division was $3-4B) and Nintendo almost $5B. They arent exactly broke.

Still that's not enough tbh

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sony made $12B profit last year (I think game division was $3-4B) and Nintendo almost $5B. They arent exactly broke.

Good, let that meme die then.

 

[Ezquimacore]

Obvious for Sony that has limited cash unlike daddy MS that will bless us with game like Starfield from day one. It's not like Sony's games are that big of a deal excluding the rare games Naught Dog and now god of war. Your horse is too high, Sony.

 

[yurinka]

Ghosttwire Is an Aaa?

Not a huge one like GTA but yes, it's a AAA game.

Obvious for Sony that has limited cash unlike daddy MS that will bless us with game like Starfield from day one. It's not like Sony's games are that big of a deal excluding the rare games Naught Dog and now god of war. Your horse is too high, Sony.

I think MS will never release the game sales of Starfield, but I bet Horizon 1 and 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Spider-Man 1, 2 and MM and Gran Turismo 7 will all sell more than 15 or 20M copies (some of them already are) and more than Starfield, unless Starfield ends released on PS5 after a time console exclusive. And there are many other ones who even if sold way less got many awards.

I may be wrong, but I'd say that out of all the Zenimax games released since a decade ago only Fallout 4 is at their level or above.

Many Sony games are a big deal, not only ND and GoW.

 

[Kimahri]

No lies detected.

The model they are trying to emulate is Netflix. Most shows on Netflix are of low quality , quantity over quality mentality. You just cant have it both was.

Quality is about talent, not money.

Best game I've played so far this year is an indie game called Songs of Conquest.

It's not due to budget that a lot of Netflix content is shit. It's the mentality behind what gets greenlit or not. Money has fuck all to do with it.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Quality is about talent, not money.

Best game I've played so far this year is an indie game called Songs of Conquest.

It's not due to budget that a lot of Netflix content is shit. It's the mentality behind what gets greenlit or not. Money has fuck all to do with it.

I wouldn't say that. Money allows one to procure and sustain talent as well.

There are always rising stars, as well.

 

[Punished Miku]

Quality is about talent, not money.

Best game I've played so far this year is an indie game called Songs of Conquest.

It's not due to budget that a lot of Netflix content is shit. It's the mentality behind what gets greenlit or not. Money has fuck all to do with it.

Indeed. Netflix would have saved themselves a lot of money if they bought a major movie studio years ago in an acquisition.

They have no history of producing content, only shipping out DVDs and being the first to pursue alternative distribution. If they brought on a real movie studio team and gave them the money to pick winners and losers it probably would've turned out better.

 

[Ezquimacore]

Not a huge one like GTA but yes, it's a AAA game.


I think MS will never release the game sales of Starfield, but I bet Horizon 1 and 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Spider-Man 1, 2 and MM and Gran Turismo 7 will all sell more than Starfield unless Starfield ends released on PS5 after a time console exclusive.

Starfield will sell a lot like that last two Bethesda games. Mods and Bethesda games go hand to hand and the games are timelines because of that.

 

[ManaByte]

unless Starfield ends released on PS5 after a time console exclusive.

 

[akaFullmetal]

Sony have clearly said they don't see gamepass scenario for them working for their games.... what a , a 5th time now. Not going to happen this gen, maybe next if it makes sense I guess.

 

[adamsapple]

You know what the definition of insanity is, right Mana ?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Don't you get that even even without it being a driving point for the console the console is still selling great anyway? So what is Sony losing exactly?

Crunchyroll? How many people currently paying PS+ you think would value Crunchyroll? You know who had Crunchyroll on their sub? MS, they use to give 1 month trials for Crunchy Roll as perks on Gamepass, most people don't even know about it or even what it is, that shows how much value it added to them.

You want Crunchy Roll? Pay for it, it's 8$.

Also, you don't think that Crunchyroll subscribers (however many there are) aren't already extremely more likely to be on PlayStation or Nintendo systems anyway? This whole Crunchyroll angle never made sense to me.

That comes down to execution. Sony has nearly killed off the benefit of being a PC only PS Now user, which is something I think they need to investigate with the console shortage. Sony doesn't need to drive console sales, but they do need to drive up their profit margins.

I think you're looking at it the wrong way. You should ask yourself how many crunchyroll/funimation users had unpaid memeberships and how many of these could you convert to paid if it was bundled with PS+ Premium. Microsoft had a limited time bundle, but it wasn't a part of the product, they do that with different vendors.

Tying in many existing CR/Funi users into the playstation ecosystem would certainly help PlayStation on consoles and off (if they built that up). But more importantly CR needs to convert nonpaid subscribers into paid subscribers in a way that generates more consistent income than advertising.

 

[Zeroing]

Of course they would say that. Just an opportunity for Sony to claim gamepass/xbox is bad. If i want to only play 3rd person adventure games ill get a playstation.

Lol . Well I'll reply to this.
They didn't said it was bad, they said their business model would not be compatible with gamepass! I don't even know people lack understanding or are just trying to hard to spin the narrative.

Sony is not a multibillion corporation that doesn't rely on their gaming business, the same as thing goes for Nintendo.

Both Nintendo and Sony need to be more careful in their business because they rely more in gaming than MS - basic logic

The problem here is, the gaming media and fanboys always trying to make Sony and MS copy each other… both are different companies.

 

[Kimahri]

n't say that. Money allows one to procure and sustain talent as well.

There are always rising stars, as well.

Netflix procures talent. That's not the issue, they just lack proper quality control.

Indeed. Netflix would have saved themselves a lot of money if they bought a major movie studio years ago in an acquisition.

They have no history of producing content, only shipping out DVDs and being the first to pursue alternative distribution. If they brought on a real movie studio team and gave them the money to pick winners and losers it probably would've turned out better.

Yeah, I agree. Oddly enough though, some of their earlier stuff had a far higher level of quality than now.

 

[TheRedRiders]

Sony have been leading the console space for years now, they've been significantly more successful than Microsoft have for the past 10 years in this space, they've been pumping out more games, better selling games and better selling hardware.

If they say they don't see a Gamepass style system working for their system, we should probably take their word for it.

 

[TheGodfather07]

Sony made $12B profit last year (I think game division was $3-4B) and Nintendo almost $5B. They arent exactly broke.

How much did Microsoft make?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Netflix procures talent. That's not the issue, they just lack proper quality control.

It's a sum of all parts yes, talent isn't just about purchasing select parts, but from top to bottom and supporting said talent.

Again, not to say rising stars aren't out there in the Indie scene. Because that happens a lot as well. Passion, repetition, talent.

 

[roosnam1980]

microsoft dont disclose xbox division profits