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[Phoenix]

Here's a story about the AOL/Sony partnership:

http://news.com.com/PlayStation+2+gains+Net+access+via+AOL/2100-1040_3-257627.html

It's important to point out, though, that the AOL partnership never materialized because of that company struggling as an ISP. Competition from Cable companies and free ISPs, and lawsuits pertaining to AOL version 5.0, and membership cancellations due to spam and abusive behavior in chatrooms, threw AOL into the shitter around the end of 2001. They re-evaluated their business model after the Time Warner merger and an ugly decline in stock value, to become content based. That was the end of PS2's "web-tv" like ambitions.

There is more to the story than that. There were also serious issues regarding costs and business model that could never be worked out. It wasn't simply that AOL was losing members (this would have been a way of retaining and growing membership) or spam and chatrooms (these things continue to this day). AOL is more of an advertising business today than it is a content business. Much of AOL has come from behind the paywall and that will increase over time as they make more money from their advertising business. That project and a couple more that died on the vine, did so because from a business perspective and IP control perspective - things just never materialized.

Just because something is possible doesn't mean that it makes fiscal sense for partners to move forward on a product.

 

[Phoenix]

Another part of the article references a partnership with AOL... folks commonly use this as a reference of something Sony promised but failed to deliver... the thing is some of that blame falls on AOL who as we know for the last few years has been trying to remake itself(which means focusing on products, dropping them, focusing on something else), as it tries to stem the bleeding of its membership numbers.... and there's no release DATE in those articles for the Sony/AOL joint venture... the only release date in those articles references the releasing of the modem itself.

AOL for PS2 on Linux never did get a ship date, but the product was completed to the point where it was demonstrable on the show floor and ran the AOL client the same way it would run on a Windows PC. There were mitigating circumstances that the product never came to market, but both parties did indeed build what they promised. They could just never get the 'business side' to give birth to the product, resources were reallocated and it then died on the vine.

 

[MassiveAttack]

OXM 360: You’ll have had a year’s head start come November. Are you confident that you’ll have a huge and loyal installed base by then that could damage PS3’s sales?

Shane Kim: I am confident that we’ll have a loyal and significant installed base. What I’m less confident about is that we’ll win. I think that’s the kind of call you can only make when the time is right. So we’re going to be maniacally focused on executing out long-term game plan. You can ask me in three or four years whether we’ve won. But I totally believe that people who have bought Xbox 360 and subscribed to Xbox Live are having a great experience and I think we’re going to get a lot of top spin momentum from that.

Certainly a surprisingly honest statement. Before the Japan launch, I think MS' confidence was absolute and I don't think any of their executives were expecting X360 to do quite as poorly as it has in Japan. Given the reality of the situation today, beating Sony is an impossibility short of Sony collapsing and failing to launch PS3 entirely.

 

[Error]

while I understand he was trying to be honest, he pretty much admited defeat before the war has even started not a good sign. they are probably preparing for armageddon come November.

 

[Amir0x]

Certainly a surprisingly honest statement. Before the Japan launch, I think MS' confidence was absolute and I don't think any of their executives were expecting X360 to do quite as poorly as it has in Japan. Given the reality of the situation today, beating Sony is an impossibility short of Sony collapsing and failing to launch PS3 entirely.

Don't you mean short of an exclusive 360 DS adapter?

 

[MassiveAttack]

Don't you mean short of an exclusive 360 DS adapter?

 

[Mrbob]

while I understand he was trying to be honest, he pretty much admited defeat before the war has even started not a good sign. they are probably preparing for armageddon come November.

Well, to be fair, there is no way MS will be number one without at least securing a decent presence in Japan.

I also believe MS, despite their talks pre X360 launch, truly ever believed they would be number one. Sure, the execs need to say this to the press, but reality is the Playstation line is a juggernaut which won't be knocked down in one generation. MS should be aiming to get a sizable presence this generation, and building upon that. If they don't and allow PS3 to own the entire marketplace again, I think we shall be looking at Playstation dominance for a long, long time to come. It could get worse too, because PSP is starting to help strengthen the Playstation line in another market. Which is helping to strengthen their overall brand and making them a tough competitor. Nintendo is smart to not be taking Sony on head to head, as this is giving them leeway to be successful in markets Sony currently is not going after.

 

[LAMBO]

Free is good, there's really no need to charge for basically All Seeing Eye, AOL IM, and a leaderboard. I'll gladly take less fluff and not have to pay. With the service being free and if the wifi is built into the ps3, i think you might actually have a large percentage of the userbase playing online. Look at the 360, mainly only the hardest of the hardcore game players own them, but only about half have Live gold right?

Hopefully Sony's "open" attitude toward online will lead to users hosting their own dedicated servers. Then you'll have all the 16 vs 16 player games you want, just like the pc has had for 10 years. Publishers won't have to host, sony won't have to host, and i'll be able to have a list of local servers with great pings and no lag.

 

[snatches]

Don't you mean short of an exclusive 360 DS adapter?

:lol

Spoiler

Hey Am, check your email

 

[RaijinFY]

Certainly a surprisingly honest statement. Before the Japan launch, I think MS' confidence was absolute and I don't think any of their executives were expecting X360 to do quite as poorly as it has in Japan. Given the reality of the situation today, beating Sony is an impossibility short of Sony collapsing and failing to launch PS3 entirely.

Can sound harsh but did they really expect to succeed in Japan?

 

[Phoenix]

Can sound harsh but did they really expect to succeed in Japan?

According to people on the inside familiar with this - yes. They felt they did all the right things, courted the right developers, picked the right price, did the right marketing, stole/hired the right talent, etc. Microsoft expected that Japan would be much different this time out than it was for the original Xbox. It could still happen - the PS3 hasn't even shipped yet. Nevertheless I think Microsoft is likely disappointed that things didn't go better in Japan, but as always they will roll up their sleeves and get ready for round 3.

I personally just don't feel they are doing ENOUGH in this space. I think that in order for Microsoft to really succeed in Asia, they need to look beyond the ivory towers of the large professional development houses and start a NetYaroze-like program to bring in more people interested in making content for THAT market as opposed to the mass market. There are a LOT of good indie developers and small shops in the asian market that can bring the type of content that will really make the platform better for that audience.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I personally just don't feel they are doing ENOUGH in this space. I think that in order for Microsoft to really succeed in Asia, they need to look beyond the ivory towers of the large professional development houses and start a NetYaroze-like program to bring in more people interested in making content for THAT market as opposed to the mass market. There are a LOT of good indie developers and small shops in the asian market that can bring the type of content that will really make the platform better for that audience.

They have actually started what you've suggested, in different ways. here is one example

http://www.vh1.com/news/articles/1500873/20050427/index.jhtml?headlines=true&_requestid=341962

Microsoft Pays College Students To Play With Xboxes In Class

Company gives Queensland University $15,000 for game-development course.

 

[Mrbob]

Free is good, there's really no need to charge for basically All Seeing Eye, AOL IM, and a leaderboard. I'll gladly take less fluff and not have to pay. With the service being free and if the wifi is built into the ps3, i think you might actually have a large percentage of the userbase playing online. Look at the 360, mainly only the hardest of the hardcore game players own them, but only about half have Live gold right?

Hopefully Sony's "open" attitude toward online will lead to users hosting their own dedicated servers. Then you'll have all the 16 vs 16 player games you want, just like the pc has had for 10 years. Publishers won't have to host, sony won't have to host, and i'll be able to have a list of local servers with great pings and no lag.

I do agree with this. One of the great things about PC gaming is many of the dedicated servers for online games are set up by end users. I would absolutely love to see this transfer over to the console side. I bet we would have people buying PS3 systems just to use them as servers for gamers to play on if Sony would let this happen.

 

[Ponn]

They have actually started what you've suggested, in different ways. here is one example

http://www.vh1.com/news/articles/1500873/20050427/index.jhtml?headlines=true&_requestid=341962

Microsoft Pays College Students To Play With Xboxes In Class

Company gives Queensland University $15,000 for game-development course.

asia, not australia. and they need to do something more akin to what sony is doing with korea and helping small developers there by fronting money for projects and building a future stable for themselves.


p.s. - water fell on keyboard and caps and shift and some other keys arent working properly.

 

[Amir0x]

:lol

Spoiler

Hey Am, check your email

Check your e-mail again.

 

[LAMBO]

I do agree with this. One of the great things about PC gaming is many of the dedicated servers for online games are set up by end users. I would absolutely love to see this transfer over to the console side. I bet we would have people buying PS3 systems just to use them as servers for gamers to play on if Sony would let this happen.

Oh surley, people have been buying $3000 pc's and very expensive internet connections to host servers for years and years. While some here might see that as silly, the person running the server has total control of his online game, he can play with who he wants, ban who he wants, and play with true zero lag as the server is in his house. It's the true next step in online console gaming, in the best interest of the user of course. I'm sure it's in these companies' best interest to sell you something that should be free, and show you advertising, and make 90% of the service a portal to sell you stuff.

 

[MassiveAttack]

From GameSpot:

"Leaders don't react," says Microsoft Game Studios general manager Shane Kim when asked about Sony's recent announcements.

With more than 50 pages of user comments on GameSpot's PlayStation 3 delay story, it's clear that everybody had an opinion to voice about the announcement. Sony's archrival was no different, as Microsoft Game Studios general manager Shane Kim gave his reaction to the news to Computer and Video Games.

"I have a philosophy: Leaders don't react," the site quotes Kim as saying at the New York unveiling of Rare's Viva Piñata. "For us, Sony's announcement doesn't change anything. We've had a very clear strategy for a long time now, and we're not going to change that. We're not going to react to anything that they do."

That philosophy didn't preclude Kim from giving his take on the PS3's planned worldwide launch in November and how he thinks the 360 can take advantage of it.

"We'll be in full supply of Xbox 360s shortly, we've got great content on the way, and we've got fantastic third-party support," Kim said in the article. "If Sony happens to stumble--and we know firsthand that there are a lot of challenges in a worldwide launch--then we'll be in an incredibly strong position to take advantage."

EDIT: Some additional comments from Shane Kim below:

"I think it's a good thing that they're finally starting to reveal more," he said, referring to Sony's recent silence as the proposed spring release date of the PS3 gave way to November. "They've made a lot of promises and people want to know what's happening with PS3".

Referring to the infamous PS3 'unveiling' at last year's E3, where several concept videos of alleged PS3 footage were shown, Kim stuck the knife in further. "We didn't want to go out to E3 and show a bunch of rendered videos that wouldn't necessarily reflect reality. Sony has created that expectation and we'll have to see if they can deliver on it."

And after the Xbox 360's problematic launch, which saw severe stock shortages and shipping problems, Kim feels that it will be difficult for Sony to follow through on a global release. "They said they'll launch worldwide? We'll see if they can pull it off. It's very challenging."

As for the coming E3, Kim told us that Microsoft doesn't feel it has to compete with Sony for the biggest announcement. "We'll have real content at E3, real games that people can go out and get their hands on."

 

[Phoenix]

I personally think SOny is nuts to even try a global launch. US and Japan first, Europe in Q1 07. You'll have enough units so that people won't be killing each other to get one. Unfortunately, they don't want to miss two seasons in any territory so they're going to shoot their load all at once.

 

[Amir0x]

I'm just curious as to what they hope to accomplish. Surely launching in every territory with ridiculously short supply can't be better than pushing one territory into 2007 and rationing it between the remaining countries?

I can't even imagine... Australia, Canada, Asia (Japan, Korea, etc..?), Europe, Canada AND US... all within the same two weeks span... with only one or two million units in the entire world. That shit is just gonna be crazy.

 

[lachesis]

I personally think SOny is nuts to even try a global launch. US and Japan first, Europe in Q1 07. You'll have enough units so that people won't be killing each other to get one. Unfortunately, they don't want to miss two seasons in any territory so they're going to shoot their load all at once.

My sentiment exactly, but I differ a bit, regarding Japan. I think JP can wait another year from now. Sure, Japan is one of the major key to success for PS3 to have - but it looks like JP is a locked-on territory and Japanese people seem so locked on not buying X360 at all. Honestly, Japan will be the least affected in terms of market share IMHO, and smallest in terms of market size - and even if they lose another holiday season in Japan, I just don't think anything major will happen. However, missing US or Europe launch this time around - there's a strong chance of X360 being the runnaway leader like Genesis/SNES like situation.

lachesis

edit: Only other thing I could think of is how Revolution would effect the market share in Japan, but for the pricing and all - I think it will be divided and co-exist in somewhat strange harmony. IMHO, mainstream gamers will stick to PS3 - but revolution might have even wider, and even more casual appeal like current DS - which would be very interesting to see, if such phenomenon indeed happens.

 

[My Arms Your Hearse]

I'm just curious as to what they hope to accomplish. Surely launching in every territory with ridiculously short supply can't be better than pushing one territory into 2007 and rationing it between the remaining countries?

I can't even imagine... Australia, Canada, Asia (Japan, Korea, etc..?), Europe, Canada AND US... all within the same two weeks span... with only one or two million units in the entire world. That shit is just gonna be crazy.

Ebay braces in anticipation.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

I'm just curious as to what they hope to accomplish. Surely launching in every territory with ridiculously short supply can't be better than pushing one territory into 2007 and rationing it between the remaining countries?

I can't even imagine... Australia, Canada, Asia (Japan, Korea, etc..?), Europe, Canada AND US... all within the same two weeks span... with only one or two million units in the entire world. That shit is just gonna be crazy.

The fight for the PS3 will likely be more entertaining than the launch games.

 

[Striek]

The fight for the PS3 will likely be more entertaining than the launch games.

Much like the X360.




Strategy makes sense to me, if they deliver the amount of consoles they're touting now.

 

[atomiswave]

This e3 will be 10x better than last years e3....starting off with the true potential of the ps3 being shown....2nd generation X360 games, and the underdog (nintendog??..at least in the US) the revolution will most likely be shown. I love it. The next six weeks are going to be very slow.....

 

[MassiveAttack]

This e3 will be 10x better than last years e3....starting off with the true potential of the ps3 being shown....2nd generation X360 games, and the underdog (nintendog??..at least in the US) the revolution will most likely be shown. I love it. The next six weeks are going to be very slow.....

Unless, of course, Phil Harrison happens to drop another WEDNESDAYTON at GDC next week.

 

[Wollan]

Hopefully, he will actually show the online serivice in action. The beta is going out to the developers in May so I guess it must be pretty well up and running atm.

 

[ram]

http://uk.videogames.games.yahoo.com/25/news/ps3-will-have-hard-drive-as-standard-3c0925.html

Our Sony representative has confirmed this morning that PlayStation 3 will come with a 60GB HDD as standard, but that can be upgraded if preferred.

Some of the larger US websites have been speculating that PlayStation 3 would be shipping with an optional 60GB hard disc drive. However we can confirm this morning that all PS3 consoles will be sold with the HDD out of the box. Sony's president of Computer Entertainment, Ken Kutaragi, announced on Wednesday that all PS3 games are being developed to take advantage of the 60GB HDD.

- hopefully true.

 

[RaijinFY]

lol... I still dont believe it. :lol

 

[gofreak]

I don't believe it either. I mean Kutaragi even said they weren't sure if it'd be included in every box or not..

 

[urk]

I don't believe it either. I mean Kutaragi even said they weren't sure if it'd be included in every box or not..

Any estimates on the "cost" of a 60GB 2.5" HDD?

Microsoft is charging $100 for the 20GB detatchable. Are their any breakdowns of the actual cost for MS? That could give "some" insight into potential cost for Sony to bundle in a 60GB HDD.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

These 2.5" 60GB drives are looking quite expensive on the internet (what's the cheapest that has been found? I'm seeing 100+).

The PS3 MSRP is going to fucking kill me.

 

[kaching]

"Our Sony representative..." :lol probably doesn't even work for Sony.

 

[human5892]

These 2.5" 60GB drives are looking quite expensive on the internet (what's the cheapest that has been found? I'm seeing 100+).

The PS3 MSRP is going to fucking kill me.

Newegg has one for $81.

 

[kaching]

I'm just curious as to what they hope to accomplish. Surely launching in every territory with ridiculously short supply can't be better than pushing one territory into 2007 and rationing it between the remaining countries?

I don't know...360 on its second holiday, Revolution out by end of 2006 as well (and probably globally) and PS2 getting long in the tooth for the 10-20 million or so earliest adopters 5 yrs ago...I think Sony has a realistic awareness that they can't trade on the goodwill of the existing PS2 userbase for too long.

Also, I think the information that Sony intends to produce 1 million per month and to have shipped 6 million by march 07 necessarily implies that they'll only produce 3 million in 06. Doesn't Sony typically sharply reduce shipments (and, presumably, manufacturing) in the first quarter of the year? If they started production by Aug/Sept, they'd potentially manufacture the majority of that 6 million before the end of 06.

 

[monkeymagic]

Any estimates on the "cost" of a 60GB 2.5" HDD?

Microsoft is charging $100 for the 20GB detatchable. Are their any breakdowns of the actual cost for MS? That could give "some" insight into potential cost for Sony to bundle in a 60GB HDD.

Not sure if this is the cheapest (didn't look around) but here's a 60GB 2.5" HDD retailing for ~$99

http://shop.hdnw.com/asp/product.asp?product=2695&cat=172&ph=&keywords=&recor=&SearchFor=&PT_ID=

As for cost to Sony - the closest I can get to a tear down is from iSuppli for a Mac Mini with total BOM (bill of materials) being under $300. The mac Mini contains a 2.5" 40GB HDD but also bear in mind the BOM contains everything (CPU, GPU, RAM etc).

If you're talking about an order of say at least 50M units over 6 years then Sony is likely to be getting a huge huge discount (moreso than Apple gets for its Toshiba HDDs).

With all of the above in mind, I'd estimate cost to be no more than $50.

EDIT: Just saw the newegg one for $81. Less than $50 cost is almost a certainty.

 

[Ghost]

$50 is probably about right. The problem is that will stay around $50 for the consoles lifetime, not a problem when its at launch prices, but when they are trying to get costs down below $200 or $100 its gonna be a big anchor.

Thats the problem MS have had with Xbox.

 

[MassiveAttack]

$50 is probably about right. The problem is that will stay around $50 for the consoles lifetime, not a problem when its at launch prices, but when they are trying to get costs down below $200 or $100 its gonna be a big anchor.

Thats the problem MS have had with Xbox.

Amongst many other cost containment problems (see Nvidia).

EDIT: One possibility worth considering is that Sony may manufacture the HDDs themselves in order to achieve greater control over pricing.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Harrison’s keynote is titles Playstation 3: Beyond the Box and I’ve been told he will be disclosing more details about the PS3. Earlier this week a Sony rep told me that certain details from the Tokyo press conference may just apply to the Japan release of the console. She said that includes details on the online network.

She also verified that Sony has not yet confirmed how many consoles they will have at launch, just that they will be producing one million consoles a month starting at launch.

Yikes?

 

[kaching]

Yikes?

Look several posts up and you'll find another "Sony rep" saying the 60 gig hdd will come standard with the PS3. I think we'll be seeing sites finding many such reps willing to "confirm" just about anything right now, since the field is so fertile for wild rumormongering in the absence of full disclosure by Sony.

Kutaragi just took the stage 2 days ago. He didn't clarify any of this stuff then, so why would you suddenly expect it to be clarified 2 days later?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Look several posts up and you'll find another "Sony rep" saying the 60 gig hdd will come standard with the PS3. I think we'll be seeing sites finding many such reps willing to "confirm" just about anything right now, since the field is so fertile for wild rumormongering in the absence of full disclosure by Sony.

Kutaragi just took the stage 2 days ago. He didn't clarify any of this stuff then, so why would you suddenly expect it to be clarified 2 days later?

But...what if they're all true?

Yeah, I didn't "suddenly expect" clarification, I thought the idea of a PS3 launching with online only available in Japan was an interesting point of discussion. That's why I posted the article excerpt.

 

[kaching]

Sorry, but the information we got from the conference really doesn't make this that interesting to discuss...

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Sorry, but the information we got from the conference really doesn't make this that interesting to discuss...

*sniff*
...Fair enough....

 

[Falch]

I was wondering, has it been revealed if the PS3 will be able to upscale dvd's to 720p/ and/or 1080i/p?

I've found this picture that confirms that Sony's own Blu-ray player will be able to upscale to 1080p. I just hope the PS3 will do the same. Any thoughts on this?

 

[urk]

Is this new news?

"We don’t really know what is going on with the Sony Blu-ray situation because as far as we are concerned, everything is on target and all of the specifications are on schedule," Andy Parsons, senior vice president at Pioneer Electronics and Blu-ray Disc Association spokesman told Forbes.

"There are no delays we are aware of with the content protection. Pioneer’s products incorporate the AACS, and we’re going to be able to put out a Blu-Ray drive by mid-2006."

From Punch Jump.

 

[Kleegamefan]

I was wondering, has it been revealed if the PS3 will be able to upscale dvd's to 720p/ and/or 1080i/p?

I've found this picture that confirms that Sony's own Blu-ray player will be able to upscale to 1080p. I just hope the PS3 will do the same. Any thoughts on this?

Its a no brainer that it will do exactly this....

 

[MassiveAttack]

Its a no brainer that it will do exactly this....

Yup, Sony's first Blu-Ray player, BDP-S1 (shipping in July) will upscale DVDs to 720P/1080i/1080p. I'd be surprised if PS3 didn't have the same functionality.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

THe PS3 will upscale legacy sd signals to HD. That's one major thing I'm looking forward to.