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[F0rneus]

If any of console gaming's big three try to pull awful low blows on their opposition, let them be held accountable.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Mate, there is no incentive to do that, when others don't offer digital keys.
Remember that is our main objective.

What third parties have been offering digital console keys for cheaper than the console stores on the regular?

I see them often on the PC, but when it comes to consoles, they're an anomaly from what I see more often than not.

 

[feynoob]

I think we're agreeing overall.

I was more curious about the implication feynoob made that somehow a digital item for PSN would be somehow cheaper if we have other resellers. I can't comprehend how that would at all be possible unless Sony somehow would make them a discount which strangely enough they wouldn't reflect on their own store.

Absolutely clear why it's a completely different equation for physical media, store shelve space, advertising, x y and z. But digital, makes absolutely no sense to me.

Unless somehow the other storefront managed to snag product keys through less legitimate means and is then selling them on the cheap. Am I missing something here?

Because they will fight for you as the consumer.
Right now, the only way to get PS digital games is from PSN, which means developers have no choice but to accept Sony pricing.

 

[Crayon]

Do they want them to offer something like steam keys? Because that would be awesome.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

Because they will fight for you as the consumer.
Right now, the only way to get PS digital games is from PSN, which means developers have no choice but to accept Sony pricing.

They always have to accept Sony pricing. It doesn't matter where you buy the game, the digital good is a PSN product. Not sure how I can explain it better.

I really think you're confusing with other material goods.

A PSN code is always a PSN code. No matter where you buy it.

 

[feynoob]

What third parties have been offering digital console keys for cheaper than the console stores on the regular?

I see them often on the PC, but when it comes to consoles, they're an anomaly from what I see more often than not.

Holidays and storefront special sales.

 

[Morrie’s wig shop]

Who in the world gives a fuck about romania

A country full of thieves and currupt people

Jeez, they are not that bad. We had a Romanian battalion under us in Iraq and they were all pretty cool. They guarded a bridge on Route Tampa that was nicknamed the Romo bridge………
Of course we all called it the homo bridge lol. Ahhhh a time before wokeness

 

[IntentionalPun]

Absolutely clear why it's a completely different equation for physical media, store shelve space, advertising, x y and z. But digital, makes absolutely no sense to me.

Unless somehow the other storefront managed to snag product keys through less legitimate means and is then selling them on the cheap. Am I missing something here?

It increases exposure is all. Xbox allows publishers to sell game download codes on sites like amazon.com for instance. Amazon of course demands a margin, similar to that of a physical game sale has. And again, publishers do this because it's an extra avenue of exposure for their game.

Sony at some point decided to not allow this practice. They've forced everything to "Gift cards" which do 2 things:

1) They are sold with a lower margin as stores don't demand a high margin for the gift cards sold at supermarkets and whatnot
2) There's a fairly large net positive because money is given to Sony, that may never end up costing them anything. The world is full of unused gift cards, or gift cards with "$5" left on them that never get used. Likely overall easily making up for any meager margins. I wouldn't be shocked if ~10-20% of all $'s on gift cards are never spent.

It's a business practice where decisions were made specifically to remove choice from both consumers, and their business partners (game publishers and retail partners) for the sole reason of profit, and ONE of the reasons Sony can get away with this is they are so dominant at this point in console gaming that they don't need the exposure. Sony doesn't market like they used to, Sony doesn't do trade shows like they used to, etc. because.. well, Playstation doesn't have to.

Essentially Sony doesn't need the exposure, nor do they need to offer the flexibility for publishers, as very few publishers are ever going to turn down selling their games on Playstation because of the fact they don't let publishers/devs sell digital codes.

IMO at least.. but that's clearly the theory of Romanian officials or any anti-trust organization looking into this sort of business practice.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Holidays and storefront special sales.

Show me. Because 9 times out of 10, they are the same sales that are on the storefront itself, and even then, digital cards for consoles barely do this. Not like physical.

 

[JackMcGunns]

Because Sony is shit for not allowing 3rd party games to sell digital codes online.

MS and Nintendo does it, as you can buy their games from 3rd party vendors. Meaning I can buy their games for cheap.

Was about to say this.

 

[Captain Toad]

You need to being down the quality of your in-house games, Sony. You have a monopoly on quality.

 

[Three]

Mate, there is no incentive to do that, when others don't offer digital keys.
Remember that is our main objective.

Dude, I'm showing you there is no incentive to do that when others do offer digital keys because official sellers rely on the single digital store price and act as brokers only. How much is Mario kart 8 on Amazon digitally £50, how much is it on Nintendo eShop £50. The Nintendo shop is setting the price since that's where they are getting their code at point of sale. They don't rely on sell-in, stock or anything else. They point to the eShop get a price and show it for sale at their store. They get a cut, you don't get a cheaper price.

 

[The Cockatrice]

The problem with this faux logic is that consoles are not PCs.

Console hardware is subsidsed by the platform holder with the intention that they make the money back with game sales.

If Sony and MS can't rely on game sale royalties because regulators force them to distribute keys on different platforms, giving up their 30% royalty, well then it's good bye to reasonably priced console hardware.

Congrats regulators, you just killed the console gaming industry and AAA gaming as a whole.

Highly unlikely. Why would they give up on the 30% royalty? Steam keys are everywhere, yet Steam still takes the 30% cut. Is Steam doing bad because of the resellers? On the contrary, I think Steam exploded even more thanks to that market.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Highly unlikely. Why would they give up on the 30% royalty? Steam keys are everywhere, yet Steam still takes the 30% cut. Is Steam doing bad because of the resellers? On the contrary, I think Steam exploded even more thanks to that market.

Steam doesn't even make any cut of publishers selling codes.

That's how generous Valve is with their publisher partners. They get 0% of code sales. (you can just print them for free as a publisher)

But yes, that comment is pretty.. misguided.

The console manufacturer still gets at minimum the $8-10 licensing fee of physical game sales, for any digital code sold. They don't give up their complete royalty at all. And it wouldn't be Sony distributing keys, it would be them letting publishers do it.

MS already does this.. you can buy games on amazon that are digital codes

Amazon.com: Hogwarts Legacy: Standard Edition - Xbox One [Digital Code] : Everything Else

Buy Hogwarts Legacy: Standard Edition - Xbox One [Digital Code]: Read Everything Else Reviews - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

Is it all games?

No.. why? Because this is up to the publisher if they want to sell games that way.

MS subsidizes their hardware even more than Sony (they just aren't as efficient with production it seems).. so TheThreadsThatBindUs I don't think you are really understanding the issue here.

Having a "diigital game code" program for your publishing partners is essentially the same thing as allowing them to sell physical copies of games, from a profit standpoint.

Do you make MORE money by a sale directly on the digital store? Sure.. hence why Sony stopped letting publishers sell digital codes lol But it's just maximizing profit, not something that is needed for a healthy loss-leader model.

 

[ZehDon]

You need to being down the quality of your in-house games, Sony. You have a monopoly on quality.

I love when people don't read the OP or the thread and just post The Narrative® blindly.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Highly unlikely. Why would they give up on the 30% royalty? Steam keys are everywhere, yet Steam still takes the 30% cut. Is Steam doing bad because of the resellers? On the contrary, I think Steam exploded even more thanks to that market.

What's the benefit of other storefronts selling PSN keys if PSN still takes a 30% cut? How would those other storefronts ever be able to price them competitively while actually making any money off them at all? In which case, how would this resolve the anti-competition complaint?

You really should think critically about what you're saying before you post it.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

It increases exposure is all. Xbox allows publishers to sell game download codes on sites like amazon.com for instance. Amazon of course demands a margin, similar to that of a physical game sale has. And again, publishers do this because it's an extra avenue of exposure for their game.

Sony at some point decided to not allow this practice. They've forced everything to "Gift cards" which do 2 things:

1) They are sold with a lower margin as stores don't demand a high margin for the gift cards sold at supermarkets and whatnot
2) There's a fairly large net positive because money is given to Sony, that may never end up costing them anything. The world is full of unused gift cards, or gift cards with "$5" left on them that never get used. Likely overall easily making up for any meager margins. I wouldn't be shocked if ~10-20% of all $'s on gift cards are never spent.

It's a business practice where decisions were made specifically to remove choice from both consumers, and their business partners (game publishers and retail partners) for the sole reason of profit, and ONE of the reasons Sony can get away with this is they are so dominant at this point in console gaming that they don't need the exposure. Sony doesn't market like they used to, Sony doesn't do trade shows like they used to, etc. because.. well, Playstation doesn't have to.

Essentially Sony doesn't need the exposure, nor do they need to offer the flexibility for publishers, as very few publishers are ever going to turn down selling their games on Playstation because of the fact they don't let publishers/devs sell digital codes.

IMO at least.. but that's clearly the theory of Romanian officials or any anti-trust organization looking into this sort of business practice.

So if I'm getting this right, the proposal is that Sony somehow should become a charity and give up on their cut of each digital game sale that isn't made on PSN, even though the servers from where the game is downloaded and available in perpetuity is being paid by them...

Ok, so it was an absurd concept all along.

Anyone expecting this should just game on pc instead lol

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

The console manufacturer still gets at minimum the $8-10 licensing fee of physical game sales, for any digital code sold. They don't give up their complete royalty at all. And it wouldn't be Sony distributing keys, it would be them letting publishers do it.

MS already does this.. you can buy games on amazon that are digital codes

Amazon.com: Hogwarts Legacy: Standard Edition - Xbox One [Digital Code] : Everything Else

Buy Hogwarts Legacy: Standard Edition - Xbox One [Digital Code]: Read Everything Else Reviews - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

Is it all games?

No.. why? Because this is up to the publisher if they want to sell games that way.

MS subsidizes their hardware even more than Sony (they just aren't as efficient with production it seems).. so TheThreadsThatBindUs I don't think you are really understanding the issue here.

Having a "diigital game code" program for your publishing partners is essentially the same thing as allowing them to sell physical copies of games, from a profit standpoint.

Do you make MORE money by a sale directly on the digital store? Sure.. hence why Sony stopped letting publishers sell digital codes lol But it's just maximizing profit, not something that is needed for a healthy loss-leader model.

This form of digital key issuance is irrelevant because it doesn't at all resolve the anti-competition complaint.

So no, it is you both who are not understanding the issue correctly.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

 

[The Cockatrice]

This form of digital key issuance is irrelevant because it doesn't at all resolve the anti-competition complaint.

So no, it is you both who are not understanding the issue correctly.

What's the benefit of other storefronts selling PSN keys if PSN still takes a 30% cut? How would those other storefronts ever be able to price them competitively while actually making any money off them at all? In which case, how would this resolve the anti-competition complaint?

You really should think critically about what you're saying before you post it.

My guy, facts speak for themselves. Lemme know when you have your own key distribution site and then you can tell us we are wrong. Until then, key sellers, key reseller and steam are doing amazingly well, so there are absolutely 0 reasons why Sony wouldnt do well either.

 

[Three]

Steam doesn't even make any cut of publishers selling codes.
That's how generous Valve is with their publisher partners. They get 0% of code sales. (you can just print them for free as a publisher)

Let's not get carried away. This is a very limited means of distribution.

"Games and applications launching on Steam may receive up to 5,000 Default Release Steam Keys to support retail activities and distribution on other stores. After that, all Steam Key requests are reviewed on a case-by-case basis. There is no guarantee that you will be provided additional keys."

" You should use Steam Keys to sell your game on other stores in a similar way to how you sell your game on Steam. It is important that you don’t give Steam customers a worse deal than Steam Key purchasers."

Notice how Steam limits the number of keys you can get. Also notice how they require price fixing to Steam.

But yes, that comment is pretty.. misguided.

The console manufacturer still gets at minimum the $8-10 licensing fee of physical game sales, for any digital code sold. They don't give up their complete royalty at all. And it wouldn't be Sony distributing keys, it would be them letting publishers do it.

MS already does this.. you can buy games on amazon that are digital codes

Amazon.com: Hogwarts Legacy: Standard Edition - Xbox One [Digital Code] : Everything Else

Buy Hogwarts Legacy: Standard Edition - Xbox One [Digital Code]: Read Everything Else Reviews - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

The problem is that those codes go through the same digital store anyway and the retailer just gets a cut. They are created at point of sale, they don't distribute codes. There is no price competition, just revenue sharing with the retailer.

 

[Perrott]

Your comment hinted at a lack of knowledge though. So do you only buy steam games on the steam store? Do you not buy codes elsewhere?

Yes, due to the Steam regional prices in my country generally being much better than those from key sellers. Same with the Xbox marketplace, for which I'm going to provide a receipt I got for a purchase I made last week as an example:

Spoiler

Those are like 5 US dollars in total after all its said and done, an basically an insignificant amount of money. The same amount for which I purchased Red Dead Redemption 2 Ultimate Edition on the Steam Autumn Sales last year.

With such competitive prices from the official storefronts, why would I want to engage with key sellers at all? Its not like they're offering better prices nor value (the ability to ask for a refund) than Steam or Xbox in my region.

 

[Calverz]

Yes, due to the Steam regional prices in my country generally being much better than those from key sellers. Same with the Xbox marketplace, for which I'm going to provide a receipt I got for a purchase I made last week as an example:

Spoiler

Those are like 5 US dollars in total after all its said and done, an basically an insignificant amount of money. The same amount for which I purchased Red Dead Redemption 2 Ultimate Edition on the Steam Autumn Sales last year.

With such competitive prices from the official storefronts, why would I want to engage with key sellers at all? Its not like they're offering better prices nor value (the ability to ask for a refund) than Steam or Xbox in my region.

Maybe for you. But I’m in the UK and I almost always look for key resellers first. I have saved a significant amount of money doing this. I got Elden ring for £18 at launch for Xbox rather than £60. As for steam, tlou I think launched at like £60 or maybe £50. I got a key from a reseller for £32.

I would have bought far more digital content for my PlayStation if I could have got keys elsewhere. It’s better for the consumer because resellers naturally create competition and cheaper prices.

 

[The Alien]

I can see it happening more countries.

Especially considering how much light was shone on some of their practices. They own 90%+ of the market and still pay to have 3rd party titles held back from other consoles. Their marketplace is closed (similar to what Apple got sued for and lost).

Don't worry tho. Nothing will happen. Lol

 

[IntentionalPun]

So if I'm getting this right, the proposal is that Sony somehow should become a charity and give up on their cut of each digital game sale that isn't made on PSN, even though the servers from where the game is downloaded and available in perpetuity is being paid by them...

Ok, so it was an absurd concept all along.

Anyone expecting this should just game on pc instead lol

No this couldn't be farther from what I'm saying.

You literally quoted me saying they get a cut of the sale.

And you can literally buy games like this on Xbox right now.. and MS is getting a cut.. and sometimes the games are cheaper via code.

 

[IntentionalPun]

This form of digital key issuance is irrelevant because it doesn't at all resolve the anti-competition complaint.

So no, it is you both who are not understanding the issue correctly.

Yes it does; the prices are sometimes different.

Here is an example:

Amazon.com: Borderlands 3 Next Level Edition - Xbox Series X [Digital Code] : Everything Else

Buy Borderlands 3 Next Level Edition - Xbox Series X [Digital Code]: Read Everything Else Reviews - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

Buy Borderlands 3: Next Level Edition | Xbox

Wield bazillions of guns in the award-winning, mayhem-fueled adventure of Borderlands 3! Blast through the universe as 1of 4 Vault Hunters – the ultimate treasure-seekers of the Borderlands

www.xbox.com

T Three (I appreciate the correction on how many codes Steam lets them print, apparently that is a 3 month old rule.. so.. don't shit on me too much for getting that wrong, they completely changed the system, however they still CAN get more keys, Valve reviews the requests)

 

[Three]

Yes it does; the prices are sometimes different.

Here is an example:

Amazon.com: Borderlands 3 Next Level Edition - Xbox Series X [Digital Code] : Everything Else

Buy Borderlands 3 Next Level Edition - Xbox Series X [Digital Code]: Read Everything Else Reviews - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

Buy Borderlands 3: Next Level Edition | Xbox

Wield bazillions of guns in the award-winning, mayhem-fueled adventure of Borderlands 3! Blast through the universe as 1of 4 Vault Hunters – the ultimate treasure-seekers of the Borderlands

www.xbox.com

I don't know where that 12% promotion is being applied but here it is the exact same

T Three (I appreciate the correction on how many codes Steam lets them print, apparently that is a 3 month old rule.. so.. don't shit on me too much for getting that wrong, they completely changed the system, however they still CAN get more keys, Valve reviews the requests)

They review it but they do it in a way where they can control it based on the sales vs steam or if they feel the games promotion can introduce people to steam. The more pressing issue is the price fixing which doesn't allow prices lower than steam where they take the cut. It's designed to protect the margin they get there so it's not like publishers can dodge the 30% tax (or whatever rate the publisher gets depending on sales volume).

 

[IntentionalPun]

I don't know where that 12% promotion is being applied but here it is the exact same

It's just a sale on the US version of amazon, that isn't being applied anywhere else.

Clearly someone has control of the price; this isn't uncommon for digital codes to go on sale lower than the Xbox store on amazon.

The thing about Steam and it's "price fixing" rule is I never seem to see it actually play out that way, or be enforced really. Codes are just cheaper elsewhere, that includes the "legit" sites that only buy from publishers.. they are only like $5 off but it always seems to be allowed.

 

[mckmas8808]

I suspect this will fail but at some point, some market will win on this topic.

I don't see how they will win though.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

My guy, facts speak for themselves. Lemme know when you have your own key distribution site and then you can tell us we are wrong. Until then, key sellers, key reseller and steam are doing amazingly well, so there are absolutely 0 reasons why Sony wouldnt do well either.

Let me try this again, because it seems you can't seem to grasp a basic concept like this...

Consoles =/= PC.

Steam and Playstation are not equivalent. Their business models have very very different, in fucking obvious ways that I shouldn't have to explain to you.

If you need me to explain these differences then you're not really equipped to have this discussion in a meaningful capacity.

 

[Clear]

I don't see how they will win though.

They can't. Its a closed system.

To publish on PlayStation you need their dev-kits, system libraries and documentation, pass through their cert QA, and have the game data stored on their servers. All things that are only available solely at Sony's discretion.

They administrate everything, so the ability to sell software keys is contingent on Sony maintaining appropriate DRM locks to material under their control. So its not like the wall of the "walled garden" can be separated from the garden itself! The entire console concept is based around the premise that this isn't a general purpose computing device, its a piece of hardware used to access proprietary software.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Let me try this again, because it seems you can't seem to grasp a basic concept like this...

Consoles =/= PC.

Steam and Playstation are not equivalent. Their business models have very very different, in fucking obvious ways that I shouldn't have to explain to you.

If you need me to explain these differences then you're not really equipped to have this discussion in a meaningful capacity.

Ok, you have no idea what the fuck youre talking about. Got it. We can move on.