And this made sense to you as an analogy while you typed it up?
are the authorities complaining that PlayStation games aren’t working on Nintendo Switch consoles or PCs?
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Sony faces Romanian antitrust probe over PlayStation dominance abuse
- Thread starter Thick Thighs Save Lives
- Start date
- News
And this made sense to you as an analogy while you typed it up?
are the authorities complaining that PlayStation games aren’t working on Nintendo Switch consoles or PCs?
Nautilus
Banned
Because that's not the way to create competition. Forcing a company to do something they don't wanna do just because you don't like what it is doing will only inflate prices elsewhere(Subscription, smaller games, hardware, etc) to make up for the loss, or they will just straight up leave that market, as it will not be worth doing business with moron governments.
Plus, this worry is completely stupid. Playstation "Dominance"? Nintendo is the current market leader, I don't see no dominance.
None of that was an issue prior to 2019 when Sony pulled digital game codes from Amazon, GameStop, Best Buy etc. the PS4 wasn’t converted to subscription only, and games kept getting larger.
And for what it’s worth, this also applies to xbox and Nintendo.
The thread on the PlayStation 4 subreddit when this was announced had lots of unhappy reactions , so you can’t dismiss this as ‘console warriors’ or whatever.
For many people, alternate stores provide an opportunity for cheaper items, alternate payment methods and easier gifting. I still have fond memories of picking up my FIFA games digital codes from Amazon.
I think far too many here forget they are consumers.
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Ehhh. Regulators are on the market to...regulate companies. Which sometimes means forcing them to do something they don't want to do to benefit customers.
Like. No shit Sherlock, that Sony don't want to do this. Because they are controlling prices entirely. Which will be a problem in inevitable digital future.
Why shouldn't they work like Steam keys, that you can buy in other stores? Are you worried about Sony's bottom line? Please, spare me.
Especially since Sony used to sell digital copies of PlayStation games in past. They just stopped doing that to have digital market for themselves.
And why exactly are you bringing Nintendo in all of this? This case is about "PlayStation dominance" inside "PlayStation digital market." It has nothing to do with Nintendo.
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feynoob
Banned
Because Sony is shit for not allowing 3rd party games to sell digital codes online.
MS and Nintendo does it, as you can buy their games from 3rd party vendors. Meaning I can buy their games for cheap.
Astray
Member
Yeah that's gonna be a "no way" from me.
Microsoft engaged in far, far more anti-competitive actions and had a far more dominant position in the OS, Browser and Office markets than Sony does in the gaming market.
The idea that Sony has an insurmountable lead is something that Microsoft has worked very hard to instill for whatever reason, when it's just absolutely not true. Gaming is always about the latest generation and what it does, the idea that digital libraries lock people in is asinine for multiple reasons.
In my mind, it genuinely takes just a few good years of consistent quality output for Microsoft to catch-up, especially now given that Sony is beginning to diversify its revenue sources and maybe lose focus.
custardbun01
Member
Exactly. People arguing for the death of physical sales are arguing to hand over retail distribution to monopolies. The PS store is a rip off.
feynoob
Banned
For me, Sony behaviors generates bad consumer practices.
If you are steam user, your best friend is steam keys from 3rd party vendors.
Sony doesn't allow that anymore for their platform. If MS and Nintendo follow their suite, we will lose the access of 3rd party vendors sales.
Sony didn't even hesitate on that 70$ increase, which prompted Nintendo and MS to do the same thing.
Astray
Member
I mean true on that, but anti-consumer != antitrust. They are both bad things, but they are bad in different ways, and each is treated accordingly by regulators.
drganon
Member
ChorizoPicozo
Member
The king is wounded! The king is under attack on all fronts!"
kurisu_1974
Member
Romania should feel free to launch their own console and store I guess.
Thirty7ven
Banned
So these actually provide price competition? Because I remember them being the exact same price.
Nautilus
Banned
And ever since then, they are making record profits.
We don't forget we are consumers. The problem here is that some people think that its only the consumers exists and only the consumers matter. The moment that the company feels like it isn't worth it anymore, because consumers keeps demanding "muh rights" and governments step in thinking they are the saviors of humankind, you *also* risk the company going "You think I need to be regulated? Sure go ahead, but not prices are 50% higher to compensate all the burocracy". And if said government says that's not allowed, they will say goodbye and go away. This isn't Germany, France or the US. This is Romenia lol.
There needs to be a balance in regards on what are the rights of a costumer, and a company's innate desire to maximize profits. If you push a side too far, SOMETHING is going to give.
Nautilus
Banned
One thing is to regulate, if someone's broken the law, or did a illicit deal. This is what? Sony and Nintendo beating the shit out of the competition fair and square? What's there to regulate?
Sony can and should be able to do whatever it wants with Sony games. Same for Nintendo. If you think that's bad, if the fambase thinks this is bad, then they should vote with their wallets. Stop buying digital games. Start buying from distributors. But no one cares, because its not an issue for them.
Its like the Apple Store discussion: People say its bad that Apple controls the enviroment THEY created and THEY foster and regulates and call that a "monopoly"(Which is stupid on several levels). But then here comes Google with android that allows people to use other stores. But at the end of the day, the vast majority of people use the Play Store, simply because its a known quantoty, its from Google so they trust it more, but most of all: It comes installed with every android device and its convinient.
There are options, but people don't care, because they don't think its doing any harm. Like with Steam: Steam HAS a monopoly on the PC scene, but nobody cares. And as long as everyone is happy, a government butting in to intervene at what is essencially a nothing burguer, will lead to... nothing, since the consumers won't change their habits and might end up being pissed off about any changes. The only thing that might change is creating more burocracy and headaches for companies like Sony and Nintendo, which might in turn increase the game's prices.
The Nintendo example is exactly the kind of change that should happen if there is indeed a monopoly: Instead of a third party that has nothing to do with the topic stepping in, what should happen is another company entering the scene and offering a better deal. Which is what Nintendo is doing. And only through that will make Sony actually make choices that better benefit the consumer, because a company making a better case for the consumer money is what may drive to change said costumer habits, and that's what will really affect anyone's business model, including Sony.
gothmog
Gold Member
I think that's an area where everyone can agree.
Calverz
Member
OGM_Madness
Member
Just wait until they hear about Nintendo
This is gonna be an argument we hear more and more as the rest of the world goes mostly digital in all media.
It's gonna be a question of, if one company offers a device/platform that is capable of playing a media, what companies have access to the customers on that platform?
I think we're also gonna see govts asking why if a consumer already bought a copy of something, why isn't available on any platform that offers it. In digital there's not a great reason to block access.
I'm trying to of physical items that work like the walled garden situation. Maybe some of you remember the Kuerig coffee things that got popular. They had the lite pods that only accepted their brand. Govts started saying that was anti-competitive and made them accept other companies pods. Maybe there's a key detail that I'm missing but it seems comparable.
Or if car companies made you buy only their parts. Idk but I think it's an argument we're gonna see made more often.
It's gonna be a question of, if one company offers a device/platform that is capable of playing a media, what companies have access to the customers on that platform?
I think we're also gonna see govts asking why if a consumer already bought a copy of something, why isn't available on any platform that offers it. In digital there's not a great reason to block access.
I'm trying to of physical items that work like the walled garden situation. Maybe some of you remember the Kuerig coffee things that got popular. They had the lite pods that only accepted their brand. Govts started saying that was anti-competitive and made them accept other companies pods. Maybe there's a key detail that I'm missing but it seems comparable.
Or if car companies made you buy only their parts. Idk but I think it's an argument we're gonna see made more often.
Roufianos
Member
Well, exactly, they wouldn't do it voluntarily. That's why it will eventually need competition bodies to step in.
Salut
Imagine you could only by Steam keys via Steam. Many people would complain.
Also, seeing how Sony and other parties going against MS for antitrust reasons as well you'd think you could apply that logic, that a dominant player isn't good got a market, to Sony as well.
Double standards.
Also, seeing how Sony and other parties going against MS for antitrust reasons as well you'd think you could apply that logic, that a dominant player isn't good got a market, to Sony as well.
Double standards.
FF:Enhanced_Reality
Member
Because that's not how it'll works... If God of War 6 comes out and it's £69.99 and retailers sell codes for the game, it should be for that price. Retailers shouldn't be able to discount the game by selling it at a lower and affect the profit margin like that. If that happened it would be like when the EU investigated these websites and found that they don't always get their keys from legal sources.
Considering more people are buying digital, if these retailers did pull such a move in selling these codes cheaper, the knock on effect from the effect on profit is that prices won't go down, they'll go up. To prevent that they'll just have an agreement in place like Apple has where they say you can't discount products at all unless it's with our permission and they're the same price everywhere. In which case choice won't matter because it'll be the same price everywhere. And those who don't follow the rules will be open to legal action.
It doesn't matter where you buy a £10 credit voucher for PSN for example, it should be £10 anywhere it's bought.
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
Xbox already does.
Chief,
I just pointed out to you that this was really only stopped in 2019, and Sony was beasting heavily with the PS4 at that moment.
There was already a balance. The company was doing well, PlayStation were doing well and PS consumers were eating good. They really just pulled digital games off other stores to tighten control and manage prices themselves.
You’re still not thinking like a consumer, and that’s unfortunate.
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James Sawyer Ford
Member
PlayStation too much of a Top G in Romania
Nothing wrong with Romanian antitrust probe, but the elephant in the room is that Xbox has been allowed to "compete" with infinite money since 2001.
Zombie businesses stifle economic growth, while preventing reallocation of resources to companies with higher growth potential.
Microsoft lost $5 billion to $7 billion on the original Xbox” (Venture Beat)
Xbox 360's Red Ring of Death cost Microsoft $1 billion (Slash Gear)
Microsoft loses up to $200 on each Xbox console sold (Eurogamer)
European Union approves Microsoft’s $7.5 billion ZeniMax acquisition (The Verge)
European Union have approved Microsoft's $69 billion acquisition of Activision Blizzard (CNN)
Cash+Short term investments
Microsoft $104 billion
Sony Group $5 billion (w/o Financial Services )
PlayStation mantains 70% market share in the EEA after including Nintendo
Nintendo sales in Europe in FY 3/23: $2.8 billion
Zombie businesses stifle economic growth, while preventing reallocation of resources to companies with higher growth potential.
Microsoft lost $5 billion to $7 billion on the original Xbox” (Venture Beat)
Xbox 360's Red Ring of Death cost Microsoft $1 billion (Slash Gear)
Microsoft loses up to $200 on each Xbox console sold (Eurogamer)
European Union approves Microsoft’s $7.5 billion ZeniMax acquisition (The Verge)
European Union have approved Microsoft's $69 billion acquisition of Activision Blizzard (CNN)
Cash+Short term investments
Microsoft $104 billion
Sony Group $5 billion (w/o Financial Services )
PlayStation mantains 70% market share in the EEA after including Nintendo
Nintendo sales in Europe in FY 3/23: $2.8 billion
Nothing wrong with Romanian antitrust probe, but the elephant in the room is that Xbox has been allowed to "compete" with infinite money since 2001.
Zombie businesses stifle economic growth, while preventing reallocation of resources to companies with higher growth potential.
Microsoft lost $5 billion to $7 billion on the original Xbox” (Venture Beat)
Xbox 360's Red Ring of Death cost Microsoft $1 billion (Slash Gear)
Microsoft loses up to $200 on each Xbox console sold (Eurogamer)
European Union approves Microsoft’s $7.5 billion ZeniMax acquisition (The Verge)
European Union have approved Microsoft's $69 billion acquisition of Activision Blizzard (CNN)
Cash+Short term investments
Microsoft $104 billion
Sony Group $5 billion (w/o Financial Services )
PlayStation mantains 70% market share in the EEA after including Nintendo
Nintendo sales in Europe in FY 3/23: $2.8 billion
Imagine taking all the time to put this together only for it to be irrelevant shit. Nothing in the OP even mentions competing consoles.
Responding with an epistle after reading just the thread title is quite the feat.
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Nautilus
Banned
And ever since then, they are making even more profits. And you keep saying that you are thinking/speaking like a consumer, so I ask you this: Who is really bothered by this? What consumer genuinely care about this, as long as their bottom end is not SIGNIFICANTLY affected?
And a bonus question thrown in there: Do you really think a government interviening will really solve anything? And not how things really get changed: Which is, consumers voting with their wallets?
I am thinking as a consumer. But thinking as a consumer means understanding that both the consumer and the company needs to win. Not just one side. And your way of thinking is not from the consumers point of view, is that of an entitled client, the exact that type of client that companies should and almost always ignore.
How does any of that stop anyone from investingNothing wrong with Romanian antitrust probe, but the elephant in the room is that Xbox has been allowed to "compete" with infinite money since 2001.
Zombie businesses stifle economic growth, while preventing reallocation of resources to companies with higher growth potential.
Microsoft lost $5 billion to $7 billion on the original Xbox” (Venture Beat)
Xbox 360's Red Ring of Death cost Microsoft $1 billion (Slash Gear)
Microsoft loses up to $200 on each Xbox console sold (Eurogamer)
European Union approves Microsoft’s $7.5 billion ZeniMax acquisition (The Verge)
European Union have approved Microsoft's $69 billion acquisition of Activision Blizzard (CNN)
Cash+Short term investments
Microsoft $104 billion
Sony Group $5 billion (w/o Financial Services )
PlayStation mantains 70% market share in the EEA after including Nintendo
Nintendo sales in Europe in FY 3/23: $2.8 billion
Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
Not sure if this is the appropriate thread for this, but dayum you've got some interesting receipts there.Nothing wrong with Romanian antitrust probe, but the elephant in the room is that Xbox has been allowed to "compete" with infinite money since 2001.
Zombie businesses stifle economic growth, while preventing reallocation of resources to companies with higher growth potential.
Microsoft lost $5 billion to $7 billion on the original Xbox” (Venture Beat)
Xbox 360's Red Ring of Death cost Microsoft $1 billion (Slash Gear)
Microsoft loses up to $200 on each Xbox console sold (Eurogamer)
European Union approves Microsoft’s $7.5 billion ZeniMax acquisition (The Verge)
European Union have approved Microsoft's $69 billion acquisition of Activision Blizzard (CNN)
Cash+Short term investments
Microsoft $104 billion
Sony Group $5 billion (w/o Financial Services )
PlayStation mantains 70% market share in the EEA after including Nintendo
Nintendo sales in Europe in FY 3/23: $2.8 billion
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
No you're not, Jim Ryan. Consumers want cheaper products. The excuse that more money=better quality has so far been proven wrong.
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Nautilus
Banned
The opposite is also true? Less money is different from a better product. There needs to be a balance, random Joe. And trying to create artificial competition will only backfire.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
It's not. We've received some amazing indies that surpass the majority of big AAA games.
FeralEcho
Member
Salut
FeralEcho
Member
Idk I'd rather live in a country full of thieves and corrupt assholes than a country full of woke cunts who get their feelings hurt by words but hey that's just me.Who in the world gives a fuck about romania
A country full of thieves and currupt people
SirKicksalot
Member
>Cluj has entered the chat
Nautilus
Banned
For fucks sake.
Obviously indies spend a fraction of the cost of AAA gaming, also they charge a fraction of the price of AAA gaming and requires a fraction of money earned to succeed, to be financially succesful.
And we are talking about Sony games here, not indies. I don't usually say this, but what a moronic argument.
Nautilus
Banned
I live in a country full of thieves and corrupt assholes.
Believe me, its not worth the trade off.Especially since these woke cunts, or the ones manipulating them, usually go hand in hand with thieves and corrupt assholes.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
You're literally the only one here with nonsense arguments. Keep sucking Jims ugly fat cock if thats your wish, you corporate shill.
Nautilus
Banned
You guys are sad. When yoy can't win the discussion, because you know that your arguments are weak, instead of saying "You know, you have a point" or " I don't agree, so lets just agree to disagree", you all just resort to name calling, or just come up with words. Shill? WTF is that word? What is that even supposed to mean?
And you know what is the real sad part here? You all complain how Resetera is full of retards with tendency of dictators inside them(Which they 100% do), feeling all good about yourselves on how you are superior to them. But then, when it comes to topics that you are passionate about and someone is contrary to it and you can't admit that its your personal taste and not something factual, you all go bananas. Saying to the ones you disagree with that the they like sucking cocks and that he is a "shill", whatever the hell that means. You act like a 8 years old kid whose parents didn't oblige into giving you the candy you wanted.
It's extremely embarassing.
But alas, I'm done with this "discussion". Hope you have a nice day.