kyliethicc
Member
Don't think it will play PS4 games.
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Sony Says: "Nothing to Announce at the Moment" on Backward Compatibility for PSVR2
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
- Opinion VR
kuncol02
Banned
Parts of tracking system in PSVR was baked into games. How do you want to simulate PS camera with inside out tracking of controllers? They could try to render data required for old tracking with data of new system, but that would be really wonky experience with totally broken calibration.
I don't think that's lack of good will. It's technically really hard to do. Especially if they want to achieve smooth seamless console experience with it.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I
I think PSVR2 will be BC with PSVR1 games, but I do not see PSVR2 working as is on PS4. It would also require BC with PSVR1 titles.I'm not sure what you could do to emulate the sensing of the headset (it's the lightbar and the camera that act as the sensor, I guess it really does not have any other sixaxis sensors inside the headset? that's crazy that a 1280×800 camera 8 feet away was considered good enough for VR motion detection,) that would be a clear problem unless there could be a way to have a "virtual head" converting the PS VR2 sensors into position and acceleration data for the game.
As far as then controllers though, doing "virtual hands" might be tricky because there's more finer movement to transcribe, but they could also just default to requiring old PS Move and PS Camera equipment for older games. (I don't think they'd go to the trouble of selling a lame "LED Pack" to stick lights on your PS VR2 helmet.) Newcomers to PS VR2 would be left out, but at least you wouldn't need to keep both headsets out if they could do a little bit of the work internally.
All games for PS4VR require the camera, unfortunately. That's how it works, as I understand it, that the camera watches the lights on your headset and controllers (sort of like Wiimote, albeit backwards from Wii, technically,) and translates that into gameplay movement. PSVR doesn't rely on motion sensors, it relies on visual tracking of markers, aka little LED bulbs on your head and in your hands being seen by the camera.
:max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/sonyplaystationvr-5a594355c7822d0037fa1165.png)
PlayStation VR brings virtual reality to console video gaming
This Sony's PlayStation VR review shows you how to bring virtual reality to your living room. Get Playstation VR games and try it out yourself!www.lifewire.com
...Seems like such an easy concept, just make the new thing that's replacing the previous thing work with both thing's games. But once you think about how PSVR worked, you realize that the situation is frustratingly complicated.
Gameplaylover
Member
I don't think people can use their old PS4 games, but i think we will see REMASTERS (at least for Astro Bot Rescue).
SilentUser
Member
Dunno if I got your question right, but they are not saying anything for now as there's going to be a new event (soon?) to fully reveal PSVR2 (headset, price, launch date and games).
OT: I'm hoping there is some sort of BC, at least for those games that Sony gave in the last year. Got them all in the hope to play it on PSVR2, as I'm not going to buy PSVR1 just to play those. I think it is doable, though it will require some effort from Sony.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Do not think the games themselves are exposed to that in a way that cannot be abstracted to use inside out tracking and the new controllers. Not effortless, but not impossible.
It’s pretty stupid to not just announce this one way or the other. If they aren’t going to support bc and they just said now everyone would be over it by the time it came out. If they are going to support it people would have more incentive to buy psvr games now. I really don’t understand Sony some times lol.
FranXico
Member
What do you think can't be abstracted for BC?
Disappointing if true, there's some good Psvr titles.
Hopefully some sort of movement emulation can be used instead.
Loxus
Member
PS 1-3 BC was based on rumors.
PSVR 1 games are PS4 VR games,
PS5 is BC with PS4 VR games.
It's only obvious PSVR 2 are BC with PSVR 1 games.
The games are run on the console not the headset. The head set is just a display device like a TV.
All the cameras, sensors, etc. are also present for BC to work.
ToTTenTranz
Banned
The million dollar question here is whether or not the PSVR games were made "future hardware aware", i.e. with the capability to render the games at a higher resolution and wider FoV.
That the new headset will support PSVR1 games is a no-brainer to me, but I don't really want to play them at 960*1080 / eye when using a 2000*2040 / eye headset.
That the new headset will support PSVR1 games is a no-brainer to me, but I don't really want to play them at 960*1080 / eye when using a 2000*2040 / eye headset.
Loxus
Member
Pretty sure it was mentioned the camera is now built-in for in and out tracking.I'm not sure what you could do to emulate the sensing of the headset (it's the lightbar and the camera that act as the sensor, I guess it really does not have any other sixaxis sensors inside the headset? that's crazy that a 1280×800 camera 8 feet away was considered good enough for VR motion detection,) that would be a clear problem unless there could be a way to have a "virtual head" converting the PS VR2 sensors into position and acceleration data for the game.
As far as then controllers though, doing "virtual hands" might be tricky because there's more finer movement to transcribe, but they could also just default to requiring old PS Move and PS Camera equipment for older games. (I don't think they'd go to the trouble of selling a lame "LED Pack" to stick lights on your PS VR2 helmet.) Newcomers to PS VR2 would be left out, but at least you wouldn't need to keep both headsets out if they could do a little bit of the work internally.
All games for PS4VR require the camera, unfortunately. That's how it works, as I understand it, that the camera watches the lights on your headset and controllers (sort of like Wiimote, albeit backwards from Wii, technically,) and translates that into gameplay movement. PSVR doesn't rely on motion sensors, it relies on visual tracking of markers, aka little LED bulbs on your head and in your hands being seen by the camera.
PlayStation VR brings virtual reality to console video gaming
This Sony's PlayStation VR review shows you how to bring virtual reality to your living room. Get Playstation VR games and try it out yourself!
...Seems like such an easy concept, just make the new thing that's replacing the previous thing work with both thing's games. But once you think about how PSVR worked, you realize that the situation is frustratingly complicated.
PSVR 1 games would use the built-in camera for tracking.
PSVR 1 games are already BC with PS5. It's the console that runs the games, not the headset.
kyliethicc
Member
I suspect its just a choice. More lucrative to sell remasters, offer $10 upgrades, etc. And simpler/cheaper to not build BC tech.
Hope I'm wrong though.
Dick Jones
Banned
I can't believe that Sony didn't answer every question put forward straight away. I am shocked. It's almost like their PS5 strategy of sharing information over a longer period to keep in the public conscious than just blowing their load in one go for the likely same media coverage as the first kernel of news. I'd sure we'll get an answer to BC before release like for months the rumour was the PS5 could only run 100 PS4 games (Cerny's comment in his developers presentation) before it was found to be everything except about 20 games.
Hopefully BC is there with just using the new PSVR2 and controllers but at worst the need to buy the PS5 camera, two PS move dildos and use the PSVR 2 helmet to play PS4 on PSVR2 headset.
P.S. Wasn't he the editor of Kotaku when Kotaku posted an article with digital child porn images of Emma Watson? Fuck off Stephen.
Hopefully BC is there with just using the new PSVR2 and controllers but at worst the need to buy the PS5 camera, two PS move dildos and use the PSVR 2 helmet to play PS4 on PSVR2 headset.
P.S. Wasn't he the editor of Kotaku when Kotaku posted an article with digital child porn images of Emma Watson? Fuck off Stephen.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
It would be great. I hope they can do it.
Converting camera tracking to inside out tracking is going to be problematic. I don't think a single solution would work. Possibly custom patches per game.
Converting camera tracking to inside out tracking is going to be problematic. I don't think a single solution would work. Possibly custom patches per game.
SLB1904
Banned
The games actually
ManaByte
Member
You can't run the games without the break-out box, camera, lighted move controllers, and headset though. Those are required to run the game, much like the Xbox Kinect games (which also aren't BC).
Again, I expect some of the cross-platform VR stuff (like Vader) to get PS5 ports to the headset as those already have versions that work with the sort of tracking the PSVR2 uses. But the stuff made specifically for the camera/light based tracking probably won't be compatible.
Loxus
Member
PSVR 1 headset doesn't have built-in cameras and sensors though.
All the VR hardware is built-in the PS5 and PSVR 2, which is why you don't need all that stuff.
Why wouldn't tracking be compatible?
Your using the PSVR 2 Sense controllers, not PSVR 1 controllers.
- Headset-based Controller Tracking: With inside-out tracking, PS VR2 tracks you and your controller through integrated cameras embedded in the VR headset. Your movements and the direction you look at are reflected in-game without the need for an external camera.
kuncol02
Banned
Because everything in PSVR was done in software on console itself. Camera was only sending video signal to it. If that tracking would be done fully on system side then they would be able to make it backward compatible with ease, but some parts of it are game specific (like position verification before you start a game) and that parts are way harder to emulate in sane way because new tracking system don't even have input signal that was used before.
Loxus
Member
Position verification would be done similar to Oculus Quest 2, is what I would think.
ManaByte
Member
Because it’s two entirely different types of tracking. Do you even have a PSVR? The PSVR uses the PS Eye camera to detect the lights on the PSVR headset and Move controllers to determine their position. It doesn’t really see you or the headset, it’s just looking for the lights.
PSVR2’s tracking is the modern method for VR where the cameras on the headset actually see the controllers (or your hands if they enable hand tracking).
Games that were programmed for the light-based tracking would need to be updated to support the more precise PSVR tracking. It’s similar to Kinect games on Xbox or how old 8 and 16 bit light guns can’t work on a non-CRT TV.
Loxus
Member
I don't get why you don't want it to be BC.
Why are you so against BC?
kuncol02
Banned
It's baked into games. It cannot be changed. At best sony could try to render fake camera feed for that.
ManaByte
Member
I'm not against it being BC. I have a large library of PSVR games. I'm just being realistic about the situation and the differences between PSVR and PSVR2 technology.
Loxus
Member
Dude, your using PSVR 2 Sense controllers not PSVR 1 controllers.
All the tracking input of the game are the same. Both headsets use cameras to detect the controller movement.
All that's needed is to detect controller movement regardless of method used.
ManaByte
Member
It's not that simple. I tried to explain to you how they were different, but you're ignoring that.
Loxus
Member
And your ignoring what Sony said.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Wasn't it leaked that PSV2 wont be native BC because of how different the tracking and controllers are?
They might do native versions of PSVR1 games imo.
They might do native versions of PSVR1 games imo.
ManaByte
Member
If you understand how the tech works, this is the only logical explanation.
Elbow Identity Shallow
Member
It's almost like they want to deal with their own announcements rather than just waiting for somebody to ask them about it. 
Loxus
Member
How so?
It isn't the game that requires the light, it's the headset and controller for input tracking.
Sony literally says you don't need an external camera, but you just keep ignoring official information. So no light needed.
- Headset-based Controller Tracking: With inside-out tracking, PS VR2 tracks you and your controller through integrated cameras embedded in the VR headset. Your movements and the direction you look at are reflected in-game without the need for an external camera.
This is the same shit as the 'eye tracked foveated rendering' in the other thread.
Every time someone has to spread misinformation for no reason at all.
ManaByte
Member
Do you not understand that PS4 VR games are programmed to look for the light tracking?
Neff
Member
Dead out of the gate if it doesn't. Which means it will.
Pretty much.
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crazyriddler
Member
Original Oculus rift CV1 works with an external camera (or two or more), the same way that psvr (except for the infrared light) and all oculus games are compatible with the "new" insider tracking for the Oculus Rifts S and Quest series without update the games... So tell me why this is different for psvr 1/2.
ManaByte
Member
Actually the Oculus games did receive patches when the new headsets came out. So the PSVR games could receive patches, but that would probably make them native PS5 games.
Lognor
Banned
Isn't BC hugely important, especially with a more niche product like this? I think Sony absolutely should have talked about BC in its initial reveal. Hopefully their silence does not mean that BC is not there. PSVR2 needs BC
Loxus
Member
Not to mention Sony being more committed to BC since PS4.
It would be odd for need to now remove BC again.
SLB1904
Banned
Lol no. Good luck finding one
Loxus
Member
No where does it say it needs patches to be BC.
Only updates for higher graphical quality.
Oculus Quest 2
Oculus Quest 2 supports all games and software made for the first-generation model, and existing titles can be updated to support higher graphical quality on Quest 2. It also supports Oculus Link, which allows the headset to be used with Oculus Rift-compatible software on a PC.