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[Men_in_Boxes]

Literally none of those games will do better than Arc Raiders. I'd take that bet any day.
Dominate what?
Extraction shooters haven't topped the most popular BR or Hero shooters for peak ccu, and Arc is slipping out already.
Slay The Spire 2, an early access deck builder, has more players, ffs.
By the time 2030 rolls around, I'd be surprised if Arc is in the top ten ccu.

Some people can see the wave before it crests. That's not you.

Slay the Spire 2 is a deck building roguelite. The roguelite genre is essentially the Extraction genre.

You will see the wave soon enough. It will be glorious when you do.

 

[Zacfoldor]

Some people can see the wave before it crests. That's not you.

Slay the Spire 2 is a deck building roguelite. The roguelite genre is essentially the Extraction genre.

You will see the wave soon enough. It will be glorious when you do.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

What's the difference? The two genres are like fraternal twins.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Some people can see the wave before it crests. That's not you.

Slay the Spire 2 is a deck building roguelite. The roguelite genre is essentially the Extraction genre.

You will see the wave soon enough. It will be glorious when you do.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

The roguelite genre is essentially the Extraction genre.

 

[cormack12]

 

[Mengy]

The roguelite genre is essentially the Extraction genre.

What?!?! This must be a troll, LOL!!!!

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Can Bungie double down the CCU first? Cuz I'm almost feel bad for all those non binary devs within the studio; they must be switching between genders just to cope with the pressure against this massive failure

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

The idea of making a game intentionally ugly for artistic reasons and then planning on monetizing it by selling more of that art is certainly a choice. That's the thing about F2P - people still need to spend money on the skins. The road to fixing Marathon's gameplay systems is much shorter than the road to fixing its aesthetic appeal. At that point you're just making a new game. It's kinda the perfect storm to be exactly what it is right now. A niche, quirky shooter. It's fine to make those, just don't spend a billion doing it.

It's so sad and hilarious that this needs to be said. Yeah guys, if you want to sell costumes, then you should probably make sure the character designs are appealing and the outfits look cool.

 

[clarky]

What?!?! This must be a troll, LOL!!!!

He not really that far off the mark. I said it many times Marathon is essentially a roguelite.

 

[simpatico]

The roguelite genre is essentially the Extraction genre.

He's not wrong. They both scratch the gambling itch. You're putting more skin in the game than most video gaming experiences. Dark Souls benefited from exciting this part of the psyche with those long, soul heavy walks back to a bonfire. Risky. Rewarding. Dopamine splooge you can't get from games you play on auto pilot.

I'd still tap that genre if I was looking to make a MP shooter with a profit motive. I know it gets said a lot, but I'd like to present it as a new idea: The Last of ARC would having a good fucking chance right now at catching a huge audience if they just played it tight and by the book and it was dropping right about now. Just a nicely polished evolution of what they had in the original, with logical expansions in the places you'd expect in a stand-alone title. Nothing crazy or expensive. You've got the assets. Round starts, you go looting, maybe do some objectives, stumble upon infected and more terrifyingly, other humans! I would play this shit. With how popular the show was, I think a lot of people would. And the skins could even be attractive enough to make people buy them. This aspect of the Bungie fumble makes it dwarf Concord. And Sony even broke ground and built those people a literal office building. They did the same for Jade Raymond's Fairgame$ and she left the damn company before it launched. The video essay on that will be epic one day. Can you imagine? See ya suckers and thanks for all the shoes and lattes.

 

[Mengy]

He not really that far off the mark. I said it many times Marathon is essentially a roguelite.

One staple of roguelikes is procedural generation to make every run unique and different. Where is the procedural generation in Marathon?

 

[clarky]

One staple of roguelikes is procedural generation to make every run unique and different. Where is the procedural generation in Marathon?

Another staple of a Roguelite is meta progression which allows you to strengthen your future runs by investing in upgrades.

I said he wasn't far off the mark, not that he was bang on.

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

He's not wrong. They both scratch the gambling itch. You're putting more skin in the game than most video gaming experiences. Dark Souls benefited from exciting this part of the psyche with those long, soul heavy walks back to a bonfire. Risky. Rewarding. Dopamine splooge you can't get from games you play on auto pilot.

I'd still tap that genre if I was looking to make a MP shooter with a profit motive. I know it gets said a lot, but I'd like to present it as a new idea: The Last of ARC would having a good fucking chance right now at catching a huge audience if they just played it tight and by the book and it was dropping right about now. Just a nicely polished evolution of what they had in the original, with logical expansions in the places you'd expect in a stand-alone title. Nothing crazy or expensive. You've got the assets. Round starts, you go looting, maybe do some objectives, stumble upon infected and more terrifyingly, other humans! I would play this shit. With how popular the show was, I think a lot of people would. And the skins could even be attractive enough to make people buy them. This aspect of the Bungie fumble makes it dwarf Concord. And Sony even broke ground and built those people a literal office building. They did the same for Jade Raymond's Fairgame$ and she left the damn company before it launched. The video essay on that will be epic one day. Can you imagine? See ya suckers and thanks for all the shoes and lattes.

Yea as a souls fan there's just a difference between losing to the game, losing souls etc.. And then losing all your shit to a cheating dorito eating mountain dew drinking retarded bitch, those hit two different types of separate feels

 

[MagiusNecros]

Extraction Shooters and Roguelites while similar in a few ways are very different. In Extraction Shooters you keep progression(gear/inventory) if you don't die. If you die you lose progression(current gear/inventory). And you can extract at any time.

Only progression in Roguelites is incremental permanent upgrades. The argument is every run is different....until you find the one build that wrecks everything and then every run is the same. Procedural generation won't matter. However you have to die or complete a run to upgrade.

Every run in a ES will be different because of the multiplayer component however the more exp/skill and gear a veteran player has the larger the advantage they will have over a new player sometimes to the point you'll never bridge the gap between the two. And when you only have a small pool of players left at high item levels even those runs will become the same since everyone at that level knows how to play the game.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

One staple of roguelikes is procedural generation to make every run unique and different. Where is the procedural generation in Marathon?

So if Marathon had procedurally generated maps, it would be a roguelite?

 

[Idleyes]

They said player retention remains at a high level? Relative to what height? Ground floor? Basement level? A pothole?

Sony's tweaking

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

They said player retention remains at a high level? Relative to what height? Ground floor? Basement level? A pothole?

Sony's tweaking

 

[Odinnii]

With the cosmetics being trash how do people expect for this to work as f2p?
They would need to make it borderline p2w or they will have to shut down within a month.

 

[Mengy]

So if Marathon had procedurally generated maps, it would be a roguelite?

Actually a single player extraction shooter with procedural maps would be kind of sweet! Give it competent and interesting AI enemies like what Arc Raiders has. Have tons of interesting loot you can craft with or decorate your base and such. Skill trees you can slowly flesh out after runs. And make the maps randomly generated so each run is a balance of exploration, survival, and greed.

I guess an FPS version of Escape from Duckov mainly.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Actually a single player extraction shooter with procedural maps would be kind of sweet! Give it competent and interesting AI enemies like what Arc Raiders has. Have tons of interesting loot you can craft with or decorate your base and such. Skill trees you can slowly flesh out after runs. And make the maps randomly generated so each run is a balance of exploration, survival, and greed.

I guess an FPS version of Escape from Duckov mainly.

You will get your wish, Mengy. And when you do, I only ask you to ignore the tears in my eyes, for at that point we will both know we are truly one people. The Omega Genre will bring everlasting peace to NeoGAF. Praise be to Nikita Buyanov!