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[Crayon]

Horizon itself is far from a vote of confidence, it's made entirely by an indie studio Sony acquired named Firesprite, who's biggest claim to fame was a largely mediocre Rogue-Like Deadspace knockoff called The Persistence (which you've probably never even heard of). Guerilla has no involvement in Call of the Mountain aside from perhaps a lore/character oversight/consultation and as a marketing vehicle. The only genuine "first party" game Sony likely has in development is the probable Astrobot sequel from Asobi. All their real studios are working on 2D GAAS and more walking simulators. In other words, they have no confidence at all, and are sending PSVR to live or die on whatever third parties and indies choose to do with it (which is even worse than their handling of Vita).

Horizon has the best vr graphics... ever? Looks better than most flat games, in fact. Go ahead and downplay it but the pictures don't lie.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

So are most mobile slot and gatcha developers. Doesn't matter who or how many people you employ if you have no track record worth speaking of.

They're more qualified than almost anyone in Sony's studios to make a VR game. How is that a lack of confidence? Probably bought the studio once they saw how well Call of the Mountain was shaping up

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Are talking about production or sales?

Apparently we are talking about Bees Buzzing.

 

[ABnormal]

PlayStation needs one that matters. Plenty of games in it’s first year

Well, that very subjective. For some, GT7 matters MUCH more than Alyx, and some of the other games too.

To me, for example, Behemoth, even without having seen anything (just because I know what Skydance is able to do in VR), is definitely more appealing, even only for the kind of game. But I could do many other examples.

Obviously having Alyx also, which is one of the most well designed VR games, would be great. But far from decisive, outside some people. Surely not for those who just read someone else speaking about Alyx, and just repeat it to appear informed and expert. That's a common social phenomenon, but they are not really interested, it's just a thing to try to feel better.
Those really interested in Alyx probably already played it on PC. The few that are REALLY interested in it and that consider it a killer app, cannot be a number that can significantly switch tides for PSVR 2. It has to walk with its legs, one step at a time. There will not be a single game which will allow a magical jum of one kilometer. More in general, it's a marathon that spans over several generations. Nobody at Sony is especting for PSVR 2 to have a big attach rate. It's just a serious step towards a potential big market in the future. And contrary to MS, they do research and development to grow in know-how and technology, instead of doing nothing and simply buying who has already did the work.
The only thing that I hope is that they will continue to support VR generation after generation despite the small market, until the technology Valve has cited, the one capable to completely suppress motion sickness, will be certified and implemented. At that point all the restrictions on movement and gameplay design and on comfort, will cease to be, allowing to unrestricted development and enjoyment of the VR space. And that will be the beginning of widespread adoption.
At that time, expertise on VR and technology will also be mature enough.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The only thing that I hope is that they will continue to support VR generation after generation despite the small market, until the technology Valve has cited, the one capable to completely suppress motion sickness, will be certified and implemented.

What technology is this?

 

[ABnormal]

The same exact thing. It is too expensive in my opinion. And it will hurt sales.

If you want to have high end VR it will cost. That's all. And still it's MUCH cheaper of any of the other high end PC headsets.

To make it significantly cheaper it has to be dumbed down, but then who's for?

 

[Corndog]

Same price as the first gen one at launch except 1000x better. It will sell better than the first iteration.

Maybe.

 

[Corndog]

If you want to have high end VR it will cost. That's all. And still it's MUCH cheaper of any of the other high end PC headsets.

To make it significantly cheaper it has to be dumbed down, but then who's for?

The higher the cost the smaller the market. Time will tell if the price is right.

 

[ABnormal]

What technology is this?

Some sort of device which emits a signal to a part of the head, suppressing vertigo and motion sickness. It already works, but it's still not certified to be used aside prototypes. It came out also during an interview with Valve. Probably it needs to be verified well to be sure it's not harmful on the long term.

 

[ZehDon]

We won't know unless someone leaks. 2 million without the support of retailers in USA is way too high. Even 1 million might be high.

Not sure why Amazon Japan has it when they sell less consoles and software than USA. What will they even use it for, anime VR porn?

Fair point. And yeah, games like Summer Lesson did well in Japan, if I recall correctly. It's not massive, but VR in Japan is definitely a thing.

 

[ABnormal]

The higher the cost the smaller the market. Time will tell if the price is right.

Yes, the point is that if you want high end VR you have to spend, and that's already low for that. Lowering it to 150 dollars less would not increase sales very much, but it would make it already old (especially if it implies getting rid of the eye tracker, which is costly and which is the key to future proofing PSVR 2).
In short, they created it exactly as I wanted, and I will be delighted for years with it. I would have hated to see it dumbed down. And even if it would sell five more millions, you can understand that they are not numbers that can significantly shift the investments, like it wouldn't with a console. Investments in PSVR 2 games are already a bet, and already with loss taken into account.

 

[Gamerguy84]

I'm sure they didn't order 10 million to be built. No way they cut production as therr is a lot of moving parts to this.

 

[ABnormal]

The higher the cost the smaller the market. Time will tell if the price is right.

Also, what's the parameter to decide if a price is "right"? Surely not the number of units sold. You don't know how many they think will sell in this generation.

But we know who are the target, and definitely they are not casuals. And for them, since they want tech gaming, the price is "right".

Some gamers want high end VR at the price of low end VR. So they whine. But that's just stupidity: there's something called "reality".

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

My feeling is I don't care how much PSVR2 sells as long as it's supported.

If the choice was either Sony drops VR entirely, or continues with VR but at a high price so that they get a profit on each sold (at the expense of higher sales at a loss) then I am totally fine with that result.

Sony also doesn't need PSVR2 to be a huge seller to continue being supported. Tons of third party VR studios making games and they know they have to support all platforms to be financially viable.

Sony can also create VR modes of their flat screen games, so they don't need to spend tons of money on VR exclusives, though I do hope they have a few bigger exclusive productions in that vein.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

SlimySnake u ok, pal?

You seemed so confident in the other thread. Like, it HAD to be true because Sony sent you a whole TWO emails.

 

[Three]

So are most mobile slot and gatcha developers. Doesn't matter who or how many people you employ if you have no track record worth speaking of, and their body of work is absolutely indie. If Sony wants fellation, put someone like Sucker Punch, SSM, ND, or the Insomniac A-team on a VR game. Firesprite most definitely ain't it my guy.

These teams who have scaled for big sales making games for a fractional install base is not a wise business decision.

However it's a bit silly to suggest these studios not making a VR only game is evidence of a lack of confidence either. Acquiring Firesprite is a vote of confidence for support in itself. They are not an indie studio. The Persistence isn't their only claim to fame but it was a good game that launched on PSVR1 even if most people hadn't heard of it. They weren't indie or self publishing most of the time. Playstation's The Playroom and Playroom VR is Firesprites claim to fame too. They have experience in VR and are a good match for making a VR only game. It's obviously not going to be SSM and God of War ragnarok scale but I have confidence in H:CoTM. Looking forward to Firewall Ultra too.
Housemarque also started with smaller games then slowly progressed to where they are now with Returnal. Not quite the big blockbuster Spiderman but not exactly 'indie' or bad.

They have the more renown studios releasing games anyway like PD on GT7, Capcom on REVillage and RE4:Remake, and Supermassive games on Switchback VR. Hopefully the wait for Asobi on Astro won't be long either.

I'd say that's confident enough, a lineup better than most console launches even.

 

[TLZ]

Learn to never trust Mochizuki articles.

 

[TLZ]

Isn’t this like the third time this specific Bloomberg journalist has reported on something Playstation-related that turns out to be completely wrong?

Gotta wonder why he keeps that source, unless he just makes shit up on the fly

Also about Switch.

He should be just ignored from now on.

 

[anothertech]

People acting like an official report is less plausible than a reporters 'source'

Fucktards . Smfh

 

[dano1]

Well, that very subjective. For some, GT7 matters MUCH more than Alyx, and some of the other games too.

To me, for example, Behemoth, even without having seen anything (just because I know what Skydance is able to do in VR), is definitely more appealing, even only for the kind of game. But I could do many other examples.

Obviously having Alyx also, which is one of the most well designed VR games, would be great. But far from decisive, outside some people. Surely not for those who just read someone else speaking about Alyx, and just repeat it to appear informed and expert. That's a common social phenomenon, but they are not really interested, it's just a thing to try to feel better.
Those really interested in Alyx probably already played it on PC. The few that are REALLY interested in it and that consider it a killer app, cannot be a number that can significantly switch tides for PSVR 2. It has to walk with its legs, one step at a time. There will not be a single game which will allow a magical jum of one kilometer. More in general, it's a marathon that spans over several generations. Nobody at Sony is especting for PSVR 2 to have a big attach rate. It's just a serious step towards a potential big market in the future. And contrary to MS, they do research and development to grow in know-how and technology, instead of doing nothing and simply buying who has already did the work.
The only thing that I hope is that they will continue to support VR generation after generation despite the small market, until the technology Valve has cited, the one capable to completely suppress motion sickness, will be certified and implemented. At that point all the restrictions on movement and gameplay design and on comfort, will cease to be, allowing to unrestricted development and enjoyment of the VR space. And that will be the beginning of widespread adoption.
At that time, expertise on VR and technology will also be mature enough.

I was actually just commenting that there new hardware matters!
I think they have a great launch lineup! Can’t wait for the 22nd.
You have very good points

 

[Corndog]

Also, what's the parameter to decide if a price is "right"? Surely not the number of units sold. You don't know how many they think will sell in this generation.

But we know who are the target, and definitely they are not casuals. And for them, since they want tech gaming, the price is "right".

Some gamers want high end VR at the price of low end VR. So they whine. But that's just stupidity: there's something called "reality".

Profitability decides.

 

[Crayon]

Profitability decides.

That is a pretty wack answer to a complicated question.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

This is one of those classic "News media says something that is deliberately a lie, so as to get an official response from the company so they can then make a new article about the response."

Basically making their own news. Very dishonest.

 

[Nydius]

"Seeing enthusiasm" is one thing -- how many people actually buy it is another.

I stand by my original post in the other topic. I don't see this being anywhere near as successful as the original PSVR based on pricetag. The original PSVR was barely "successful" when you stack its total sales up against the total install base of the PS4. PSVR2 coming out at $550 and requiring a $400-$500 console to use will keep it a niche product. There are going to be PSVR purchasers who would otherwise be interested but will pass because their PSVR libraries won't be backwards compatible and the games that do make PSVR2 upgrades will cost extra (Tetris Effect and Rez are two examples).

PSVR sold 5 million in 4 years during a strong economy.
PSVR2 is coming out at a much higher price tag when we're on a borderline global recession.
If it sells half as many units over a similar 4 year period, I'll be surprised.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

"Seeing enthusiasm" is one thing -- how many people actually buy it is another.

I stand by my original post in the other topic. I don't see this being anywhere near as successful as the original PSVR based on pricetag. The original PSVR was barely "successful" when you stack its total sales up against the total install base of the PS4. PSVR2 coming out at $550 and requiring a $400-$500 console to use will keep it a niche product. There are going to be PSVR purchasers who would otherwise be interested but will pass because their PSVR libraries won't be backwards compatible and the games that do make PSVR2 upgrades will cost extra (Tetris Effect and Rez are two examples).

PSVR sold 5 million in 4 years during a strong economy.
PSVR2 is coming out at a much higher price tag when we're on a borderline global recession.
If it sells half as many units over a similar 4 year period, I'll be surprised.

PSVR2 is coming out at a cheaper cost than PSVR1 adjusted for inflation. Global recession talks are just fear mongering. People will save their money for what they want to buy.

PSVR2 will sell more on DAY 1 than the PSVR1 did in 8 months. Guaranteed. It will vastly outpace PSVR1 and likely double PSVR2's sales aligned for time in market.

You're completely nutso with your predictions

 

[ABnormal]

Profitability decides.

If the profitability is on a long term plan, even generations can be produced even at loss, depending on that bet. Take the possible Activision aquisition: 70 billions, meaning that to start being in active, it could take more than a generation.
It depends by many possible things, which we don't know.
If they decided for high end tech and for that price, which is high for the average console gamer, it's already proof that they are not aiming to mass adoption (which would not happen anyway even with a cheap (in all sense) unit.

 

[j.k.2021]

To be fair, Will they admit if the report was true?...

 

[Heisenberg007]

Horizon itself is far from a vote of confidence, it's made entirely by an indie studio Sony acquired named Firesprite, who's biggest claim to fame was a largely mediocre Rogue-Like Deadspace knockoff called The Persistence (which you've probably never even heard of). Guerilla has no involvement in Call of the Mountain aside from perhaps a lore/character oversight/consultation and as a marketing vehicle. The only genuine "first party" game Sony likely has in development is the probable Astrobot sequel from Asobi. All their real studios are working on 2D GAAS and more walking simulators. In other words, they have no confidence at all, and are sending PSVR to live or die on whatever third parties and indies choose to do with it (which is even worse than their handling of Vita). It's no wonder preorders are disappointing when they have no games in development, or to show. Their big dog too cool to hold press conferences is biting them in the ass here.

 

[demigod]

PSVR2 is coming out at a cheaper cost than PSVR1 adjusted for inflation. Global recession talks are just fear mongering. People will save their money for what they want to buy.

PSVR2 will sell more on DAY 1 than the PSVR1 did in 8 months. Guaranteed. It will vastly outpace PSVR1 and likely double PSVR2's sales aligned for time in market.

You're completely nutso with your predictions

I highly doubt this. Not releasing to retailers will surely kill sales. The psvr having 2 sku’s eased the price for folks already having the camera.

I bought psvr day 1, i will wait for either a price drop or something I really want and maybe I’ll get it sooner.

What were the numbers for 8 months?

 

[MasterCornholio]

So two podcasts nobody listens to?

If you read psvr2 impressions you will find tons of positive buzz from people that have actually played it

Yeah definitely didn't hear that the tech isn't good. But some concern over the software library that it will have can be valid. Hopefully it gets solid releases over its lifespan.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Correct. We'll see after the launch! They have to report their quarterly financials after March.

I don't think they would lie about production being cut. That's just grounds for them to get sued.

However if production will meet deman (aka supply = demand) that's a different story.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Apparently we are talking about Bees Buzzing.

Well idiots believe both are the same. There's a clear difference between the two.

Edit: Damn it I'm going to have to start using multi quote. I'm spamming the thread as badly as Eddie spams gaf.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I highly doubt this. Not releasing to retailers will surely kill sales. The psvr having 2 sku’s eased the price for folks already having the camera.

I bought psvr day 1, i will wait for either a price drop or something I really want and maybe I’ll get it sooner.

What were the numbers for 8 months?

1M at 8 months

I think it can do that during the launch window without problem

 

[Robb]

Feels like Bloomberg has been wrong a lot recently.

 

[Naru]

Honestly conflicted about who to trust. The multi billion dollar company that has a new product on the way or the clueless reporter that has negative information about said product.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

Good to hear but still, they need more aaa hybrid games + proper showcase focused on psvr2 (they showed literaly like 10s for gt7vr lol ;d)

 

[Freeman76]

Of course they deny it. What are they going to say? "Yeah we know it just came out and all but the demand is low and we're just going to put our resources elsewhere"

At least some people on GAF can see the wood for the trees. You dont even have to sign up to preorder it anymore, says it all lol

 

[systemr123]

At least some people on GAF can see the wood for the trees. You dont even have to sign up to preorder it anymore, says it all lol

Maybe they just realized they produced enough units for the amount of ask and decided to drop the mandatory sign up. Maybe they do have less pre-orders than expected.
Maybe the reason is something completely different. Removing mandatory sign up certainly doesn't "say it all".
A lot of webshops for example drop mandatory account creation before you can buy something.
Does it have anything to do with their business being in trouble? No it does not.
The reason why they do it is because they see when you have to do less effort as a customer to order something, the chance is bigger that said customer will finish the entire order process, hence, selling more items.

Also, even if Sony would like to cut production of the headsets, they would certainly not do it 3 weeks before it releases lol.
The contracts for production were created long before now and the factory is producing items at speed now. It's not like Sony can't just say, stop production of all agreed upon units now lol...
That alone shows that the Bloomberg article is just pure speculation. Also Sony said the report is false and they're not allowed to lie since they're a publicly traded company.
Now the interesting part is: how many headsets did Sony actually order to produce? And how many pre-orders are there? And what are Sony's expectations?
Does anyone but Sony knows? No. So whatever Sony says at the moment is the truth, simple and clear, because they're not allowed to lie and nobody knows the actual truth.
And anything any sensation seeker types on his/her/other warrior keyboard is speculation, simple and clear.

 

[Tams]

Unleash the lawyers Sony! Knock Bloomberg and Mochizuki down a peg or two for defamation and an attempt at securities fraud!

 

[Soosa]

"Seeing enthusiasm" is one thing -- how many people actually buy it is another.

I stand by my original post in the other topic. I don't see this being anywhere near as successful as the original PSVR based on pricetag. The original PSVR was barely "successful" when you stack its total sales up against the total install base of the PS4. PSVR2 coming out at $550 and requiring a $400-$500 console to use will keep it a niche product. There are going to be PSVR purchasers who would otherwise be interested but will pass because their PSVR libraries won't be backwards compatible and the games that do make PSVR2 upgrades will cost extra (Tetris Effect and Rez are two examples).

PSVR sold 5 million in 4 years during a strong economy.
PSVR2 is coming out at a much higher price tag when we're on a borderline global recession.
If it sells half as many units over a similar 4 year period, I'll be surprised.

Why count the console?

Psvr2 main target audience are people whom already own ps5.

People rarely buy 5000€ PC just to get to play VR, they already have PC. Same with psvr2, majority probably dont buy PS5 just to play VR.

Yes, it costs more than people are used to in console space, but Price/specs are really good so people should stop crying. 600€ is not much in a hobby

Switch have garbage specs, yet it costs like 350€ new, yet people still buy them.

If psvr2 would have garbage specs and 599€ price, then it would be fair game.

It wont sell tens of millions probably, but still we should be glad that Sony offers us new experiences and relatively high specs.

Sony stuff have always cost more, but they have been good quality and hi-tech, maybe not as much as back in the 80's/90's, but still The brand is strong.

Time will tell how well it sells.

And If it would be cheap low spec item, many people would not buy it either, including myself.

To anyone with regular job 600€ is almost nothing if they really want it.

Even poorer people can get it with 0% fee monthly payment plan, on some countries at least. Even I took ît as real costs are 0€ so why not, even if Ov could buy 20 with cash.

 

[midnightAI]

Horizon itself is far from a vote of confidence, it's made entirely by an indie studio Sony acquired named Firesprite, who's biggest claim to fame was a largely mediocre Rogue-Like Deadspace knockoff called The Persistence (which you've probably never even heard of). Guerilla has no involvement in Call of the Mountain aside from perhaps a lore/character oversight/consultation and as a marketing vehicle. The only genuine "first party" game Sony likely has in development is the probable Astrobot sequel from Asobi. All their real studios are working on 2D GAAS and more walking simulators. In other words, they have no confidence at all, and are sending PSVR to live or die on whatever third parties and indies choose to do with it (which is even worse than their handling of Vita). It's no wonder preorders are disappointing when they have no games in development, or to show. Their big dog too cool to hold press conferences is biting them in the ass here.

Guerilla also provided the engine (Decima), most of the assets, thats why it looks so darn good.

And why does everyone keep forgetting about GT7? that's a genuine first party Sony game (as is Horizon, considering Firesprite are first party)
We don't know what else Sony as in store for first party VR titles, just because nothing is announced yet doesn't mean they aren't working on games (give the games they have announced a time to shine)

Although with comments like 'All their real studios are working on 2D GAAS and more walking simulators.' I don't know why I'm even replying to you to be honest.

Please, do tell me how many pre-orders they have had, must be low if they are as disappointing as you say, but if you have actual figures then I'd like to know what they are.

 

[Gans]

So what are the chances for this to be available on release as a regular product? I have it pre-ordered but would really want to wait until reviews and first impressions are up before dropping £500+. I'm guessing should be fine? (UK)

 

[drezz]

So what are the chances for this to be available on release as a regular product? I have it pre-ordered but would really want to wait until reviews and first impressions are up before dropping £500+. I'm guessing should be fine? (UK)

There will be a whole bunch of hand's on impressions AND reviews before launch(Thinking 18/2, dont think they have revealed Embargo just yet), might as well sit on it until you make up your mind.
As for availability in stores... I don't know, online for sure BUT then you have to wait 2-3 days delivery!

 

[JLB]

Same price as the first gen one at launch except 1000x better. It will sell better than the first iteration.

How many PS4s were sold through when PSVR1 got released?
Compare that to the number of PS5s.

 

[Synless]

How many PS4s were sold through when PSVR1 got released?
Compare that to the number of PS5s.

It was a delta of 13.4 million around the time of release. I still am confident it will have higher sell through by the time it’s retired.

 

[JLB]

It was a delta of 13.4 million around the time of release. I still am confident it will have higher sell through by the time it’s retired.

But good luck with this prediction

 

[gokurho]

Takashi Mochizuki was right, proven by Sony

 

[supernova8]

Of course this thread won't get half the attention of the other FUD. Sony never confirmed the 2 millions so that was made up by Bloomberg too.

Yeah I was guilty on jumping on that, but I will add anecdotally that you can still pre-order PSVR2 online at all the major electronics retailers (including Yamada Denki, Joshin, Yodobashi, and Bic Camera) in Japan, which seems weird since I cannot imagine Japan getting a large allocation in the first place.

 

[Ar¢tos]

At least some people on GAF can see the wood for the trees. You dont even have to sign up to preorder it anymore, says it all lol

You know that the sign-up never even existed in most EU countries? It has been retailer pre-order since the announcement here. So that means absolutely nothing.

 

[digdug2]

You know that the sign-up never even existed in most EU countries? It has been retailer pre-order since the announcement here. So that means absolutely nothing.

You had to sign up here in Germany... until you didn't.