Obscuritas
Member
Users on gaming boards being way out of touch with the mass market. Nothing to be surprised about tbh, but it's nice to have some reality checks like this post from time to time.
Sony's marketing and communication about the PS4 Pro
- Thread starter leng jai
- Start date
Users on gaming boards being way out of touch with the mass market. Nothing to be surprised about tbh, but it's nice to have some reality checks like this post from time to time.
geordiemp
Member
Its got nothing to do with Console Warz my friend, dont turn it into that. 30 % CPU and GPU could be a nice boost for some games that are not 'great' runners.
I have held off playing a few titles in my backlog which are not exactly stable on Ps4, Witcher being one, a certain Assassins Creed game another to mention just 2.
Its a fair question, will the Pro throw its full CPU and GPU at the game, or will their be a Pro Legacy mode where its gimped ?
All we have read about is Ps4 Pro on SOME new games and what it will kinda do.
Having games achieve stability in frame rate and the like is a PLUS.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
What is the release date for the PS4 Pro in the UK? I would like to buy one for Xmas.
FWIW TW3 runs pretty great on vanilla PS4 after all the patches, few frame drops even in Novigrad and the new city in blood and wine.
Considering it won't be updated for Pro by CDPR I wouldn't hesitate in jumping into that amazing game.
Nov 10th in UK.
It's a worldwide launch.
Edit: beaten.
i don't think the messaging has been confused at all really. i understand what it is, what it does in both 4k and 1080p and i think most people do too.
where sony are struggling are showing people those benefits. since HDR and 4k are specific to owning a TV that are capable of displaying it, you can't really demo it via a youtube video on a 1080p TV.
i still think they'd do better to sell the console if they did more comparisons at 1080p. so we see a more like for like visual comparison.
where sony are struggling are showing people those benefits. since HDR and 4k are specific to owning a TV that are capable of displaying it, you can't really demo it via a youtube video on a 1080p TV.
i still think they'd do better to sell the console if they did more comparisons at 1080p. so we see a more like for like visual comparison.
xenorevlis
Member
I never made it about console wars. You're the only one who mentioned it. I'm just asking if you want a similar mini boost like that or if you think (like etta) that games designed for specific console hardare can magically run better on a more powerful APU automatically without breaking things.
Never said it wasn't a fair question, either - in fact I mentioned the Mark Cerny seminar thing that will go more in-depth about all of this. I even rhymed!
All we have on PS4 Pro is that virtually all NEW games will support Pro modes and SOME games that already came out are receiving patches.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Yeah it's great value for what's in the box for $400/£350. 4K-like visual output is usually the reserve of $1000+ PCs.
Thank you.
What is going on here is a lot of these people are those with pent-up frustration from this gen because PS4 has been burying the competition in terms of sales and games. This is the first big opportunity these people have had to kick up a massive stink and like you say, feign confusion on what the Pro is.
Somehow the narrative is trying to be forced that MS releasing the Scorpion in 1+ years time (which is lol) is an advantage. When that is just mind-bendingly stupid. The narrative is actually MS have made another complete balls-up by letting their rival get the jump on them by a year and letting them eat up all those Holiday sales with a new powerful console on the market on their own. Come Holiday 2017 we'll all have moved on. People will be playing on their Pro's, PSVR, Vive's or 4K PCs.
Brad Grenz
Member
DerZuhälter;217468088 said:
Actually, Sony specifically mentioned and showed footage of the benefits to three games during the presentation: For Honor, Shadow of Mordor and Paragon. We learned shortly after Rise of the Tomb Raider would also have an enhanced 60fps mode for 1080p. So it doesn't seem like Sony's communication is the problem when you've simply missed or ignored what they actually said.
BlitzerRadic
Member
DerZuhälter;217464797 said:
Ever thought maybe the issue is that you're just being obtuse? Pro is 2x more powerful than PS4. Sony has mandated all pro games have a minimum of 1080p and 30fps. I don't need Sony to tell me anything to know that pro games will look significantly better than regular PS4 games.
And why do you even need Sony to tell you? If you're dubious, just wait for it to come out and look at the games and wait for the inevitable DF comparison and see for youself.
Obscuritas
Member
Yup, pretty much. The one year gap will hurt it more than the power advantage will ever help it.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Yeah they did but they did a bad job of showing the difference. Paragon was the only game they did a comparison though, the other games didn't seem to show the old vs upgrade. That is what seems to be causing a lot of the confusion.
They really should do some more comparison videos or release some pictures to clearly show the differences as showing the difference clearly works better than just saying it will be better.
Personally I'm in day one just because I have a 4k TV and I'm looking forward to playing games in 4k with HDR, yeah I know its upscaled but it apparently looks excellent, so thats fine and I can play all my PS4 games too, so for £349 its really good value.
DerZuhälter
Member
This. Even on youtube you have a lot of comparisons of 4K footage with the FHD footage, but little to no footage comparing PS4 base mode with PS4pro 1080p output mode.
Great Sony doesn't have to convince other than with a promise of better looking games. I don't think I'm being obtuse by asking for some screenshots or videos.
Waiting for DF comparisons? The thing about waiting is, that every minute I wait on selling my current PS4 I get less value for it, thus having to pay more to stay being a Sony customer. This sucks.
blacklotus
Member
This part is so true.
whynotboth.gif
Who the console is targeted at - which will become apparent once the actual, you know, marketing starts for it rather than a single presser announcing the key features, price and launch date - is irrelevant really.
Although keep moving those goalposts about what we're supposed to be confused about.
Let me simplify your conversation to something more real:
"Here's a new better PS4 you want that or the original?"
"I have the original already, what does this one do better?"
"It will make Battlefield 1 and Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare look better and run faster on the PS4 Pro giving you a competitive advantage in multiplayer too, especially on a 4K TV"
"Can I preorder now?"
By the way this is how I've seen it being sold twice so I hope it helps to ease your concerns about the PS4 Pro being a complete failure.
Saint of Killers
Member
Sometimes, no matter how much things are explained by someone, there will always be people who fail to grasp the message, or just plain lazy to do the figuring out for themselves. Always. Even if Sony themselves got some things wrong, and they did, or the very least didn't fully think the Pro reveal through, there have been plenty of enthusiast outlets since its reveal who have gone on to explain the pros and cons of the PS Pro. There's only so much spelling out anyone can do.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Run faster, giving you a competitive advantage in multiplayer?
Less drops from the 60 fps framerate target.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
The Pro versions will have steadier framerate. I bet it runs closer 60fps way more consistently than the base PS4 will in Battlefield, COD and Titanfall. The native 1080p or higher will also be an advantage in all three games.
Sales people saying things that aren't entirely true part 650. At least it's a best lie than being able to play Super Mario Galaxy on a PS3 like I've heard on the same store years ago.
Technically the store person was right because PS4 Pro will have less framerate drops but it's a stretch as a selling point. But it worked twice when I was there.
*walks out the store*
I couldn't care less about games like Battlefield and Call of Duty...XD
FrozenCell
Member
tbh I see no need for the slim to exist, sony should have gone all pro
also I have yet to see good, actually any eu preorder bundles for pro
also I have yet to see good, actually any eu preorder bundles for pro
StrongBlackVine
Banned
How is that stretch as a selling point when have been lamenting over shitty framerates all generation? Maybe the average consumer may not care, but the enthusiastic definitely will. They can sell the complete casuals on the prettier graphics.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
2 things:
1) I've never had concerns about it being a failure. Something I've already posted a few times in this thread
2) So you're saying retailers need to lie about it to sell it?
How have I moved the goal posts? My very first post in this thread was responding to a person who is currently working in retail genuinely asking how he's selling the console to customers. How is that not then related to the target consumer for it? Not sure why you're so instantly on the defensive over something not worth being defensive about.
DerZuhälter;217474277 said:
This is probably the thing here. Core players feel that they need to upgrade, as they always get the next console on day one. And Sony isn't pushing the Pro in this regard. As they don't need to. And they don't want to do this to much - because this might piss off current PS4 users. That's why there is so much marketing focus on 4k.
When people feel that they don't need it because they don't have a 4k TV then this is acutally beneficial for Sony because it would create a big initial uproar if they pushed the 1080p difference to hard. They'll come to see the ligh later
The platform stays the same.
Sony doesn't have to convince you now. They don't make profit on hardware anyways
The Pro is priced low enough that people will pick it up anyway. And they can't probably produce that much consoles right now. They don't need to do a major push and or a huge launch.
Core gamers will update after some point when enough DF comparisons get released.
It doesn't matter for Sony if you buy the Pro or not. It will sell given the pricing and the market situation. What matters for Sony is that people stay in the ecosystem and subscribe to PSN+.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
Two reasons:
1. It is probably significantly cheaper to manufacture(more profits)
2. They needed an entry level model to compete with the Xbox One S
The Slim is nothing to be excited about, but it has a major role to play. When drops to $249 over the holidays then you will REALLY see the impact.
get2sammyb
Member
I think the reality is, when Battlefield 1 releases, and it's 720/60 on XB1, 900/60 on PS4, and 1080/60 with better effects on PS4 Pro -- people will get it!
Where's the lie?
Bojanglez
The Amiga Brotherhood
It exists because they know statistically that people will bite at certain lower price points, so why not have a product that catches those sales. It also ensures people that bought their console previously will not feel as left behind.
Stillmatic
Member
It's an easy sell mate, jesus. It's a better PS4. Yes I've worked in retail, from games to tv's and white goods. Last retail job was a couple years back (thank god that life is done) being Harvey Norman Chadstone.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
It gives a competitive advantage? Seriously?
Well it does... Cleaner image with more detail to see and less framerate drops = competitive advantage.
You can debate how much advantage it gives and that is less important than having a TV with low input lag but it still doesn't mean it isn't true.
Cornbread78
Member
Lol, so true...
The whole new console thing has brought out the monsters hiding in the closet..
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Harvey Norman Chaddie would have been rough.
I've done EB Northland, EB Broadmeadows, Myer Northland, Telstra Shop Richmond/Doncaster/Northland/Preston, JB Hifi City
Man. Retail is terrible.
Stillmatic
Member
Agreed, never again. Lol You meet some neat people, but man there's some crazies! Atleast it's easy to fall back on if you're in a jam.
Yes, seriously. Can you explain why you think playing a multiplayer title in higher resolution and with a more stable framerate is not a competitive advantage?
DerZuhälter
Member
Yes, it is, but this hasn't stopped multiplayer games on PC in their tracks either.
Fortuneelsewhere
Member
But at 399$ it is for sure for plebs. .
MilkyJoe
Member
You could also say that by releasing a year later when the next gen of silicon is available, thus being the much better option for the bulk of the "generation" was the better path for the long run? Coming first is not always the best, ask your missus.
"we'll all have moved on" have a word...
Sony will probably be announcing the PS5 some time after Scorpio's release.....
MilkyJoe
Member
Some time circa 2019
There's no native 4k image and upscaling a native 2k image to downscale it to 1k would not a wise choice under normal circumstances, because it's more expensive and there's no additional image information in the 4k image. The "magic" of the "hardware" checkerboard upscaler might make a difference but I doubt it.
DSR is supersampling plus a gaussian blur filter.
It looks great at 2x, meaning downsampling a full 4k image to 1k (1080p) which roughly equates 4xSGSSAA.
At an odd factor like 1.4x (equating to 2k or about 1500p) DSR is a mess hopefully hidden behind large amounts of blur.
DSR is a PC solution dealing with the fact that increasing the resolution of a game is far more compatible than injecting AA in it's pipeline.
Bitch Pudding
Member
I think not even Sony themselves know how to market the device in a simple way, which generally makes no sense to me.
It seems like it would be pretty simple: Its a more powerful PS4. Depending on what devs do, it plays games in higher resolutions, enhances graphics, runs higher frames, or any combination of those 3 on a game by game basis.
Again, seems like it should be simple, so i don't understand exactly why they can't get it right.
It seems like it would be pretty simple: Its a more powerful PS4. Depending on what devs do, it plays games in higher resolutions, enhances graphics, runs higher frames, or any combination of those 3 on a game by game basis.
Again, seems like it should be simple, so i don't understand exactly why they can't get it right.
mejin
Member
I think they're doing the simple way. No fanfares. It was also introduced in a short PS Meeting. No megalomania like it was in feb 2013.
It's already available for pre-order and for all we know it's doing really solid.
There is a part of GAF that don't want to accept this as a valid approach, who knows. Everything is bad, but they don't have any proof to support their rantings. Right now it's just wishful thinking: the age of Sony is done.