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[Tideas]

Oh naturally...we need to spend more on defense than the whole rest of the world combined. That's a much better use of our money to the public.

or we can use that defense money and put it to other social thing instead of giving it to NASA.Because you know, it doesn't always have to be one extreme or another.

 

[Log4Girlz]

or we can use that defense money and put it to other social thing instead of giving it to NASA.Because you know, it doesn't always have to be one extreme or another.

I was asking for 10 billion for Nasa. That still leaves us a bigger budget than the rest of the world combined.

 

[Tideas]

I was asking for 10 billion for Nasa. That still leaves us a bigger budget than the rest of the world combined.

and do what with 10 billion? btw. for those who don't know, NASA has become very militarized in the last 20 years. there aren't that many scientists there anymore.

 

[Log4Girlz]

and do what with 10 billion? btw. for those who don't know, NASA has become very militarized in the last 20 years. there aren't that many scientists there anymore.

Buy F-22's. 5 of them.

 

[CiSTM]

and do what with 10 billion? btw. for those who don't know, NASA has become very militarized in the last 20 years. there aren't that many scientists there anymore.

That's not really true at all. Certain projects most certainly overlap with each other and information is shared so they can avoid duplicating same research but overall NASA's current contribution isn't significant to military, at least when you watch where their money is going. http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/622655main_FY13_NASA_Budget_Estimates.pdf

 

[noah111]

and do what with 10 billion? btw. for those who don't know, NASA has become very militarized in the last 20 years. there aren't that many scientists there anymore.

Are you confusing NASA with DARPA or something?

 

[Tideas]

Are you confusing NASA with DARPA or something?

no. a professor of mine in solar system physics repeated this statement to me.

 

[Elfforkusu]

I don't really buy NASA's wonder organization image. They did a good job in the past but times have changed. We have other areas to invest too, more important then trip to Mars. Humans going out to search for other planets is science fiction and even if you believe in it we have to over come so many basic questions that NASA isn't ideal for answering.

NASA does lot "inhouse" science in all fields, especially in propulsion physics but the real findings in chemistery, physics, material science, etc. come out side of NASA. NASA's real fortei is engineering and putting findings in other fields into use.

I'm not saying we don't need NASA but again give DOE same budget as NASA and build new super collider and maybe we will find our way beyond standard model sooner then later. I would find that way more interesting then trip to Moon.

I think I get the gist of your point -- just funding NASA doesn't solve anything on its own, because without lofty goals NASA is just what NASA has been since the mid-80s: a research and development arm of the government looking for good PR and more funding.

The unspoken part of funding NASA (or the spoken part when Dr Tyson talks about it) is that the funding would go along with lofty goals. Not "go back to the moon", that's not extremely interesting. "Build a lunar colony" might be interesting, but even that might not be exciting enough.

But what about:
"Go to Mars and come back, not over the course of years but over the course of months."

That technology does not exist today. Just like the technology to go to the moon did not exist in the late 50s when NASA was formed. That ought to be the agency's goal, not mere research projects. Ambitious endeavors that no other organization in the world has the guts to accomplish. Like going to Mars. Like capturing an asteroid. Like building an artificial gravity space habitat. Stuff that excites the imagination.

If it sounds like I bought into Neil deGrasse Tyson's argument here, it's because I have, hook line sinker rod boat anchor. NASA's value is that it can take on projects that inspire the imagination like no other agency in our government. The LHC? Overseas anyway, but even if it were in Texas

Spoiler

like it should've been

it wouldn't inspire a single non-physics student. It'd be neat, it'd confirm/deny the standard model. So what? Scientific achievement is great, but it happens all the time. It doesn't inspire the same way landing humans on the moon did, or landing humans on Mars would. That's the value of NASA, and that's why they should be favored over DARPA projects and the like. Ambition.


But I'll grant this: the organization we want to take us to Mars might not be the "NASA" of today at all, it might be a new beast entirely.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Buy F-22's. 5 of them.

F22 raptors don't cost 2 billion dollars each. If you include the sunk-cost of development into the cost of each unit, then all of the existing ones are ~340mil each, with every additional new one adding 150mil (the actual cost of production). Even building new B-2 Spirits would only be ~1 bil each.

 

[Log4Girlz]

F22 raptors don't cost 2 billion dollars each. If you include the sunk-cost of development into the cost of each unit, then all of the existing ones are ~340mil each, with every additional new one adding 150mil (the actual cost of production). Are you confusing them with B2's or something?

I heard the engines run on hyper something fuel. Hyperbole...that's what its called Seriously, 150 million a plane is a steal.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I heard the engines run on hyper something fuel. Hyperbole...that's what its called Seriously, 150 million a plane is a steal.

For 10 bil we could build 66 of them! WOo!

 

[Log4Girlz]

My dream is to have an orbiter around every planet and dwarf planet known at the same time. It would be like we factually own the solar system.

 

[wolfmat]

My dream is to have an orbiter around every planet and dwarf planet known at the same time. It would be like we factually own the solar system.

Totally makes sense! Doesn't even have to be all NASA orbiters.

 

[DrForester]

Got a chance to tour the Mission Support Facility at Lockheed Martin today. Got to look a the operations center where they control and get data from various missions like Jeuno, GRAIL, and the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter.

Also got to see the observation lounge over the construction room where they had the superstructure completed for MAVEN, a mission planed to launch next year to study mars' atmosphere. Didn't ahve any sceince packs on it yet, it was pretty much just the shell, but cool non the less.

 

[Takuya]

Anyone know a good space podcast?

 

[endre]

startalk radio for example

 

[Elfforkusu]

Is startalk radio actually available for download anywhere, or is it live streaming only?

 

[endre]

I downloaded episodes from their archive using jdownloader.

 

[Agnostic]

Is startalk radio actually available for download anywhere, or is it live streaming only?

I subscribe through iTunes as a podcast.

 

[Reg]

Astronomy Cast is pretty good too.

 

[wolfmat]

I love listening to Big Picture Science from the SETI gang, but it's not exclusively astronomy. More like science radio.

 

[Elfforkusu]

I subscribe through iTunes as a podcast.

Neat. I also found an RSS feed here if anyone's interested.

 

[fallout]

Something a little different ... Astronomy Sketch of the Day: http://www.asod.info/

Object Name: Eratosthenes
Object Type: Lunar crater
Location: Teulon Manitoba Canada
Date: March 31, 2012
Media: graphite pencil, and ink on white paper approx 20cm. x 20 cm. Image flipped and some highlights added with Iphoto
Telescope: Celestron Ultima 8 with binoviewer at ~ 200x

I thought I might try sketching Copernicus that was just on the terminator with a rapidly emerging crater floor, but I was intimidated by the idea of doing that large ejecta blanket. So I chose the smaller Eratosthenes instead which was nicely placed and had some very intriguing shadows. The moon was viewed under very good seeing, but my seeing of the sketching paper wasn’t quite as good– I wasn’t aware that one of my pencils was scratching the paper. Not entirely happy with some of my textures here and my rendering of the southern ejecta, but have run out of time for this, now.​

 

[Orgun]

Had my Youtube favourites on shuffle and this came on

It's a great big Universe and we're all really puny.

 

[Extollere]

Solar flare from today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtT1jsORaSE

 

[dubc35]

Heard this story on the way home from work. Sad that we have nothing ready to go while retiring the shuttle.

http://www.npr.org/2012/04/16/150723935/aboard-747-shuttle-discovery-to-make-final-flight

Also, cheap shuttle lol

 

[Elfforkusu]

Solar flare from today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtT1jsORaSE

So no one else feels obligated to look it up, this was a M1.7 magnitude solar flare.

 

[PantherLotus]

Hey space friends, I'm looking for the clip of Brian Cox where he points out that the most common elements in the universe are also the most common elements in the human body. I thought it was a TED talk but I can't seem to pinpoint the quote. Any help?

It could've been NDGT.

 

[Windu]

Anyone know a good space podcast?

spacevidcast is a good show...although i'm not sure if they have a rss feed so it wouldn't technically be a podcast.

 

[Apath]

Hey space friends, I'm looking for the clip of Brian Cox where he points out that the most common elements in the universe are also the most common elements in the human body. I thought it was a TED talk but I can't seem to pinpoint the quote. Any help?

It could've been NDGT.

This? (NDGT)

 

[AAequal]

Exotic explanation for Pioneer anomaly ruled out

The unusual trajectories of the Pioneer 10 and 11 spacecraft as they leave the solar system are not caused by any exotic new physics but by mundane thermal emissions powered by radioactive decay. That is the verdict of researchers in the US and Canada, who have compared the results of an extremely detailed computer simulation of the thermal forces on one of the craft with the same forces calculated from the trajectory of the mission. The study also suggests that the observed reduction of the extra acceleration over time is the result of how electricity is generated on board the spacecraft and distributed to its scientific instruments.

Physicists have known for more than a decade that the Pioneer 10 and 11 probes are following trajectories that cannot be explained by conventional physics. Known as the "Pioneer anomaly", both craft seem to be experiencing an extra acceleration towards the Sun as they exit the solar system that is 10 billion times weaker than the Earth's gravitational pull. Many explanations have been proposed for the origins of this anomalous acceleration, involving everything from the gravitational attraction of dark matter and modifications of Einstein's general theory of relativity to string theory and/or supersymmetry.

In 2011 a team led by Slava Turyshev of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California – and including Viktor Toth, Jordan Ellis and Craig Markwardt – showed that the magnitude of the acceleration is decreasing exponentially with time. Given that for both craft electricity is supplied by a radioisotope thermoelectric generator (RTGs) powered by the heat given off by the radioactive decay of plutonium – an energy source that decays exponentially with time – Turyshev and others suggested that the extra acceleration could be caused by thermal radiation being emitted from the craft in a preferred direction.

The problem with that explanation, however, is that the acceleration of the spacecraft is decaying exponentially with a half-life of about 27 years, whereas the half-life of plutonium-238 is 88 years. So to see if thermal emissions really are driving the anomaly, Turyshev, Toth and Ellis joined forces with three other researchers – Gary Kinsella, Siu-Chun Lee and Shing Lok – to create a detailed computer simulation of the thermal properties of the spacecraft and the directions in which key components emit thermal radiation.

Efficient acceleration

The simulation reveals that the two main sources of thermal emissions on the spacecraft are the RTG itself and the scientific instruments that it powers. These instruments, which are mostly mounted on the back of the spacecraft, face away from the Sun and, according to the simulations, their thermal emissions have a relatively high efficiency of accelerating the spacecraft towards the Sun. The RTG, in contrast, is mounted to one side of the main body of the spacecraft and emits thermal radiation much more evenly in all directions.

The research suggests that knowing the relative contributions of the RTG and the instruments to the anomalous acceleration is key to understanding why the observed decrease in the anomalous acceleration is faster than the decay of plutonium-238. According to Turyshev, the thermocouples at the heart of the RTGs become progressively less efficient at converting heat to electricity – and that this decay occurs with a half-life that is somewhat shorter than 88 years. As the thermocouples deteriorate, less electrical energy is supplied to the instruments, which means that the anomalous acceleration drops faster than expected from radioactive decay alone. Although more heat is dissipated by the RTG as time progresses, this has little effect on the motion of the spacecraft.

Notes and memories

According to Turyshev, the biggest challenge in developing the simulation was the "lack of precise and complete information on the spacecraft", which was designed and built more than 40 years ago. As a result, the team interviewed engineers who had built the spacecraft and still had notes and memories on the design and materials used. Also crucial to the team's success was the use of data that were beamed back to Earth during the mission. These included the temperature at several locations on the spacecraft, which allowed the team to evaluate the accuracy of its computer model and also to infer the thermal properties of some of the materials used in the satellite.

The team also performed an independent analysis of the trajectory of Pioneer 10 from which the researchers were also able to extract the relative contributions of the RTG and instruments to the anomalous acceleration. Both the thermal simulations and the trajectory analysis gave similar results, within experimental and computational errors.

It is this agreement between the thermal and trajectory studies that impresses Benny Rievers of the University of Bremen in Germany. With his colleague Claus Lämmerzahl, Rievers has also used computer modelling to show that directional thermal emissions are the likely cause of the Pioneer anomaly. "I think that we now completely understand what is going on with the spacecraft and that the anomaly is completely down to anisotropic heat radiation," says Rievers.

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article...tic-explanation-for-pioneer-anomaly-ruled-out

 

[PantherLotus]

^That's neat. Glad it wasn't anything else.

This? (NDGT)

yes!

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

The Space Shuttle just finished its trip. It made three loops around D.C! I work on K Street, and I think the entire town stopped working for an hour. It was fantastic, everyone was on the rooftops all around. I took a couple of crappy shots with my camera phone, but it was such an awesome feeling with everyone just being in awe looking at the craft and thinking about spaceflight.

 

[Orgun]

The Space Shuttle just finished its trip. It made three loops around D.C! I work on K Street, and I think the entire town stopped working for an hour. It was fantastic, everyone was on the rooftops all around. I took a couple of crappy shots with my camera phone, but it was such an awesome feeling with everyone just being in awe looking at the craft and thinking about spaceflight.

http://s13.postimage.org/mo4sp1e91/537981_10100539065954379_7802762_52525004_183845.jpg[/IMG]

http://s14.postimage.org/jz26tno9b/576057_10100539072865529_7802762_52525045_179377.jpg[/IMG]

Spaceflight brings people together

 

[Windu]

i'm going to have to go back to the air and space museum when i'm back in DC. I assume it will be replacing enterprise.

edit: yep, looks like enterprise is moving to new york.

 

[opticalmace]

Exotic explanation for Pioneer anomaly ruled out

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article...tic-explanation-for-pioneer-anomaly-ruled-out

Really cool update, thanks for posting.

 

[DrForester]

i'm going to have to go back to the air and space museum when i'm back in DC. I assume it will be replacing enterprise.

edit: yep, looks like enterprise is moving to new york.

This was the stupidest decision ever. How does New York get a shuttle over Houston....

 

[Windu]

This was the stupidest decision ever. How does New York get a shuttle over Houston....

$$$$

 

[dubc35]

I just want that bad ass 747 returned to Seattle.

Spoiler

honestly I wanted a shuttle for the museum of flight

 

[DrForester]

Full size: http://imgsrc.hubblesite.org/hu/db/images/hs-2012-01-a-xlarge_web.jpg
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/04/17/a-stunning-star-factory-for-hubbles-22nd/

I just want that bad ass 747 returned to Seattle.

Spoiler

honestly I wanted a shuttle for the museum of flight

I signed their bring it to Seattle petition when I was on a business trip in 2010. Even Museum of Flight would have been a more appropriate choice than New York's Aircraft carrier...

 

[Tawpgun]

This was the stupidest decision ever. How does New York get a shuttle over Houston....

Because NYC has this bad boy parked in the river.

 

[DrForester]

Because NYC has this bad boy parked in the river.

Which has nothing to do with the Space program.

 

[PantherLotus]

i'm going to have to go back to the air and space museum when i'm back in DC. I assume it will be replacing enterprise.

edit: yep, looks like enterprise is moving to new york.

I have to admit being underwhelmed when I went. Part of it was that it just seemed so old.

What we really need is a Hubble museum.

 

[Tawpgun]

Which has nothing to do with the Space program.

Noooot exactly.

Here's the reasons they listed.

• Maximum Exposure for the Shuttle: NYC offers the greatest potential audience with which to share the Shuttle and its story – 15 million residents; 45 million tourists and nearly 1 million annual visitors to Intrepid.

• Educational Impact: The Shuttle will be an educational tool for future generations. NYC offers the largest potential pool of students to learn about the Shuttle. There are over 1 million students in the NYC public school system, let alone the additional students in the tri—state areas of NY, NJ and CT and the many institutions of higher learning. Intrepid already has an expansive educational program in place, serving close to 100,000 school children annually. With Intrepid’s own tie to NASA, these educational programs already incorporate space exploration and therefore are a perfect platform upon which to build Shuttle themes.

• Intrepid’s Historic Connection to Space Program: The USS Intrepid served as a NASA recovery vessel in the 1960’s for some of the earliest manned space flights. On May 24, 1962, helicopters from Intrepid picked up astronaut Scott Carpenter, commander of the 2nd manned orbital flight, as part of the Mercury 7 Mission. Then on March 23, 1965, Intrepid helicopters picked up Gemini 3 astronauts John Young and Virgil ‘Gus’ Grissom and also recovered their two person capsule, “The Unsinkable Molly Brown”.

 

[Noirulus]

Hey guys, back in 2009 which was the International Year of Astronomy, I remember watching a bi-weekly/monthly video series that explained new developments in astronomy. Does anybody remember what the videos/the website was called?

 

[PantherLotus]

sounds like somebody has a copy of the talking points!

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

[/QUOTE]

Beautiful beyond words.

 

[RSP]

Why is there a Concorde on a raft?

 

[Tawpgun]

Serious question.

I know we can't have nukes or other weapons in space...

But legally, is there anything stopping anyone from using asteroids as weapons?

 

[Mengy]

Serious question.

I know we can't have nukes or other weapons in space...

But legally, is there anything stopping anyone from using asteroids as weapons?

Physics?